feeling VERY sluggy lately, miscarried twin? FROM EMILY

[Guest guest]

Dear Group Members;

Here you will find an interesting discussion where partial cause of

problems under consideration is a retained miscarried twin; we do not

know this yet. In any case, there is much in ayurvedic assessment and

support which can take place, as you will see (most of conversation

included) below. Midwife/nurse input most welcomed and was my first

recommendation. If the twin theory is confirmed, I will be referring

her to a more trained ayurvedic physician for more specific herbal

support.

 

Also, in addition to the discussion below from the last message, if

the twin theory is accurate, the toxins from the tissue breakdown can

be creating a strain on the elimination systems.

Ysha

 

 

healinghug108....

Mon, 6 Feb 2006 22:43:44 -0600

Hi martha-i've underlined almost my entire handbook-so many important

details! ... the almond snack-is it better to buy it closer to my due

date or is it something that lasts(provided i don't eat it!)

 

i just had an appointment with my midwife and i'm measuring larger

for dates. i am positive i had my LMP aug 22, yet i am measuring

28cm. Any experience with this? the only explanation i've heard is a

miscarried twin. hope all is well thanks for breaking new ground.

 

love, emily in winnipeg

 

Hi Emily'

Not being so trained, I don't know about this measurement stuff.

Perhaps others on the forum can comment? Except that I made big

bathtubs for my babies, some of us do. the measurement, is that

baby's head? hmm... don't know.

 

The almond snack, best order in advance so we can get someone to make

if for you; I don't have stock here. It keeps in fridge some weeks.

 

Your feedback on the book is heart warming, you really know what I've

done there. IE, sorted through my 200 page book to glean all hte

practical tools and put them in concentrated form! And it took mucho

time, wow, now I've only 25 copies left and need to reformat before

republishing, whew.

 

Feeling good or sluggy these days? I lost a baby in utero (not

twins) and wasn't paying good attention to signs ... made me very

dull, sluggy, et al. ARe you sleeping well, digesting well, pooping

etc?

 

Warmly,

Ysha (Martha)

 

been feeling VERY sluggy lately, coughing up mucous, low energy. I've

been sleeping 9-10 hours a night, deeply. i'm definitely not regular.

Any suggestions? Otherwise i feel strong, had a few practice

contractions lately.how much in advance should i order the almond

snack if i want it to come by april 1 or so?thanks, emily

 

Hi Emily;

Slow bowels alone will create this. How often are you going - how

many times a day, and what is the consistency/color?

Of course so can the possible scenario you suggested of death of a

twin.

 

Let's focus to get the bowels moving; best way is increase warm

moisture in food and drink, increase butterfat and oil (much more

than you think you " should " use) in your food, including a teaspoon

or more of clarified butter in your hot milk tonic at night ...

Avoid iced foods and drinks, old foods (past about 6 hours if

possible). WHen pregnant, you may know, we avoid direct laxatives

including castor oil are no-nos.! At the same time, I would

increase your citrus if there is any you are comfortable with; even a

tall glass of warm water first thing in the am with goodly squeeze of

lemon (warming) or lime (cooling).

 

So tell me about your food and drink intake in terms of temperature,

appetite, fats level, hydration, proteins, carbs, red meats, dairy,

sugars, like that? In terms of specifics (like what type of dairy at

what time/s of day, what type of sweetener/how much, what type of

oils/fats how much).

 

Do you mind if I share this online with students of this? Can change

your name as you like.

Warm Regards;

Ysha (Martha)

 

Replies interleaved -

Hi Ysha, sure you can go ahead and share this, you don't have to

change my name.So, I will try to answer all your questions. i have a

movement almost always at least once a day. The timing varies,

sometimes later morning, afternoon or evening. I very rarely go more

than once a day , very rarely as soon as i wake up.

Yes, signs all of them of constipation. You should be going at least

2X daily, including first thing in the am. If not time to do some

remedial things. Start your day with a tall glass of warm water

optionally with squeeze of lemon or lime (this is good advice all the

time for us all), or followed by some fresh fruit juice (citrus is

most effective here).

 

The consistency and color varies alot too, depending on what i eat.

usually thick, with visible food in it(seeds, green leafies)

So not pitta aggravated... but signs of poor digestion ....

 

My diet is vegetarian, no meat fish or eggs. i eat all kinds of

dairy, yogurt plain and vanilla, milk, cream, ghee, butter, curd and

cheese, almost everyday in one or more meals.

This is appropriate spiritually and for pregnancy/postpartum, EXCEPT,

The next questions here is about food combining and advise to cheese

or sour dairy at night (as well as cold anytime). Avoid mixing

yoghurt or milk with banana (carcinogenic) avoid mixing milk with

main meal (salt, sour Please be sure to also read

www.sacredwindow.com/articles.html scroll down to the Milk article

and take a look at the others as appropriate.

 

i eat both hot and cold foods.

Cold temp foods and drinks weakent he digestive fire/enzyme

processes/integrity and create incomplete products of digestion in

the colon and in the system as a whole

 

my appetite is strong,

This is good if it is real appetite. How much of the appetite is

taste or need fast energy now (sometimes yeast or parasite or

malabsorptive or weak blood sugar balance) driven and how much the

knawing warmth in your tummy (real appetite born of fully digesting

the last meal and ready for the next) that body enzymes are ready to

do their job?

 

but i do have a tendency to overeat.

Above issues apply also, & /or emotional?, bodytype considerations

& /or poor quality or balance of nutrients

 

i eat all types of sweeteners , sugar white and brown, honey, maple

syrup. i crave sweets and eat them everyday almost.

Sweets are also very appropriate and needed extra during pregnancy

and postpartum. But did you know that white sugar is processed over

charred beef bones? This and its refined nature both cause it to hit

hard and then lay you flat. Also, craving for sweets can indicate

yeast or parasites, which will make your energy sag a lot, or

insufficient proteins or good fats.

 

for fats i have olive oil, udo's oil, butter and ghee. i use these

on an almost daily basis.

Almost dailyl ..... building a baby you need extra of the good

quality cholesterols for your own hormonal balance and for baby, and

you need extra (at least 2TBS daily I've found for most women) of the

high lignan EFA3 oils which are some ingredients in Udos, but you

would want to use along with some ground flax seed. Some olive oil

is good too, to your taste. DO NOT SKIMP ON YOUR FATS! You might

want to look at Sally Fallon's Nourishing Traditions first chapter to

get an excellent discussio nof the different fats, proteins, sugars,

etc and what they do, even without the ayurvedic info overlay we can

discuss more.

 

proteins include a variety of beans, tofu, cheese and nuts.

How much/how many times a day ... PROBABLY 3x DAILY YOU NEED

PROTEIN. I do not buy into the mega dosage, but 40 or so I think it

is in grams a day of easily digested protein is wise minimum. How

you are preparing, make sure it is freshly cooked, with DIGESTIVELY

SUPPORTIVE SEASONINGS, NOT COLD/LEFTOVER/NOT WITH FRUIT also

influences its value to you.

 

carbs are rice, rice and wheat noodles, breads and cereal.

Not knowing your body type/s I cannot comment on the whole wheat or

other grains too much. Certainly more natural form is usually good,

but many do poorly with whole wheat. AVOID DRIED CEREALS, UN TOASTED

BREADS for the yeast, and add extra butterfat or other oils to any of

these now!!! Add cinnamon, ginger, clove, etc as desired to cereal

or rice. Avoid nutmeg while your bowels are slow though.

 

i would say my food tends toward the drier side.

If eating toast (not just bread, above) butter it or poor olive or

sesame oil on it, AND dip it in soup. Make moist Indian type halvas

for sweets - protein, fat, and spice rich as well as carb loading.

Favor soups, minimize salads now, for raw do fresh fruits/juices not

frozen or canned for the life force benefits to bowel action also

(especially from citrus if it suits you). Lubricate and hydrate

both - these work better than dry bran fiber approach for the

bowels.

 

So, MOISTURE AND OILINESS AND DIGESTIVE SEASONINGS AND BALANCE AND

FOOD COMBINING are all to be addressed for wisedom in creating

comfort, energy and vitality.

 

i eat all these things at whatever time of day, sometimes late like9-

10 p.m.

Yes, so eating that late and for many, after 6 (I usually eat 7ish

and am fine) the body is tied up digesting during the hours it

naturally wants to be cleaning house. So we will wake sluggish,

congested, etc.

 

So that should be a good start. hope you are well looking forward to

hearing from you.love, emily

 

So let us know which of these things stand out as the main issues,

ok? Thank you for sharing your learning. (Donations are welcome

from any so kind hearted).

Warm REgards;

Ysha (Martha)

[Guest guest]

Martha and All...

 

The measurement of the uterus after 20 weeks of gestation generally

corresponds with the number of weeks...ie: the measurement from the pubic

bone to the top of the uterus (the fundus) at 26 weeks should measure

approximately 26 cms. In Emily's case, with a due date of Aug 22nd, she

should be only about 12 weeks along. The height of the uterus at 12 weeks

is barely above the level of the pubic bone. If Emily is measuring 26 cms

now, I would be very concerned. Twins normally do not start measuring big

until about 20 weeks. My immediate response to this scenario would be to

rule out a molar pregnancy. This is pre-cancerous condition that causes

grape-like clusters to grow in the uterus. The body reacts to it as a

normal pregnancy in that the levels of HcG are elevated (as in pregnancy)

but rise very rapidly as the 'pregnancy' advances. Also, another hallmark

of this condition is to appear large for dates. I am not one to recommend

intervention but in this case an ultrasound is definitely warranted. If it

is a molar pregnancy, she needs immediate medical attention. This can be

life threatening.

The u/s will also help to confirm dates if in fact it is a viable pregnancy.

But these dates seem WAY off to me... Please keep us up to date on Emily's

condition.

 

all love,

Kathy (midwife in Iowa)

ps: I am new to the list and will post my intro ASAP!

-

" Martha Oakes " <martha

<ayurveda >

Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:16 PM

feeling VERY sluggy lately, miscarried twin? FROM EMILY

 

 

> Dear Group Members;

> Here you will find an interesting discussion where partial cause of

> problems under consideration is a retained miscarried twin; we do not

> know this yet. In any case, there is much in ayurvedic assessment and

> support which can take place, as you will see (most of conversation

> included) below. Midwife/nurse input most welcomed and was my first

> recommendation. If the twin theory is confirmed, I will be referring

> her to a more trained ayurvedic physician for more specific herbal

> support.

>

> Also, in addition to the discussion below from the last message, if

> the twin theory is accurate, the toxins from the tissue breakdown can

> be creating a strain on the elimination systems.

> Ysha

>

>

[Guest guest]

OK...so scrap that whole reply to this message!!! It serves me right to

read my email when completely exhausted. I just re-read this post and

discovered that Emily's LMP was Aug 22nd...not her due date. So... it could

be twins, or she may just have some extra amniotic fluid. Sorry...I really

do know what I'm doing...when I'm awake, at least!

 

all love,

Kathy

 

 

-

" Martha Oakes " <martha

<ayurveda >

Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:16 PM

feeling VERY sluggy lately, miscarried twin? FROM EMILY

 

 

> Dear Group Members;

> Here you will find an interesting discussion where partial cause of

> problems under consideration is a retained miscarried twin; we do not

> know this yet. In any case, there is much in ayurvedic assessment and

> support which can take place, as you will see (most of conversation

> included) below. Midwife/nurse input most welcomed and was my first

> recommendation. If the twin theory is confirmed, I will be referring

> her to a more trained ayurvedic physician for more specific herbal

> support.

>

> Also, in addition to the discussion below from the last message, if

> the twin theory is accurate, the toxins from the tissue breakdown can

> be creating a strain on the elimination systems.

> Ysha

>

>

> healinghug108....

> Mon, 6 Feb 2006 22:43:44 -0600

> Hi martha-i've underlined almost my entire handbook-so many important

> details! ... the almond snack-is it better to buy it closer to my due

> date or is it something that lasts(provided i don't eat it!)

>

> i just had an appointment with my midwife and i'm measuring larger

> for dates. i am positive i had my LMP aug 22, yet i am measuring

> 28cm. Any experience with this? the only explanation i've heard is a

> miscarried twin. hope all is well thanks for breaking new ground.

>

> love, emily in winnipeg

>

> Hi Emily'

> Not being so trained, I don't know about this measurement stuff.

> Perhaps others on the forum can comment? Except that I made big

> bathtubs for my babies, some of us do. the measurement, is that

> baby's head? hmm... don't know.

>

> The almond snack, best order in advance so we can get someone to make

> if for you; I don't have stock here. It keeps in fridge some weeks.

>

> Your feedback on the book is heart warming, you really know what I've

> done there. IE, sorted through my 200 page book to glean all hte

> practical tools and put them in concentrated form! And it took mucho

> time, wow, now I've only 25 copies left and need to reformat before

> republishing, whew.

>

> Feeling good or sluggy these days? I lost a baby in utero (not

> twins) and wasn't paying good attention to signs ... made me very

> dull, sluggy, et al. ARe you sleeping well, digesting well, pooping

> etc?

>

> Warmly,

> Ysha (Martha)

>

> been feeling VERY sluggy lately, coughing up mucous, low energy. I've

> been sleeping 9-10 hours a night, deeply. i'm definitely not regular.

> Any suggestions? Otherwise i feel strong, had a few practice

> contractions lately.how much in advance should i order the almond

> snack if i want it to come by april 1 or so?thanks, emily

>

> Hi Emily;

> Slow bowels alone will create this. How often are you going - how

> many times a day, and what is the consistency/color?

> Of course so can the possible scenario you suggested of death of a

> twin.

>

> Let's focus to get the bowels moving; best way is increase warm

> moisture in food and drink, increase butterfat and oil (much more

> than you think you " should " use) in your food, including a teaspoon

> or more of clarified butter in your hot milk tonic at night ...

> Avoid iced foods and drinks, old foods (past about 6 hours if

> possible). WHen pregnant, you may know, we avoid direct laxatives

> including castor oil are no-nos.! At the same time, I would

> increase your citrus if there is any you are comfortable with; even a

> tall glass of warm water first thing in the am with goodly squeeze of

> lemon (warming) or lime (cooling).

>

> So tell me about your food and drink intake in terms of temperature,

> appetite, fats level, hydration, proteins, carbs, red meats, dairy,

> sugars, like that? In terms of specifics (like what type of dairy at

> what time/s of day, what type of sweetener/how much, what type of

> oils/fats how much).

>

> Do you mind if I share this online with students of this? Can change

> your name as you like.

> Warm Regards;

> Ysha (Martha)

>

> Replies interleaved -

> Hi Ysha, sure you can go ahead and share this, you don't have to

> change my name.So, I will try to answer all your questions. i have a

> movement almost always at least once a day. The timing varies,

> sometimes later morning, afternoon or evening. I very rarely go more

> than once a day , very rarely as soon as i wake up.

> Yes, signs all of them of constipation. You should be going at least

> 2X daily, including first thing in the am. If not time to do some

> remedial things. Start your day with a tall glass of warm water

> optionally with squeeze of lemon or lime (this is good advice all the

> time for us all), or followed by some fresh fruit juice (citrus is

> most effective here).

>

> The consistency and color varies alot too, depending on what i eat.

> usually thick, with visible food in it(seeds, green leafies)

> So not pitta aggravated... but signs of poor digestion ....

>

> My diet is vegetarian, no meat fish or eggs. i eat all kinds of

> dairy, yogurt plain and vanilla, milk, cream, ghee, butter, curd and

> cheese, almost everyday in one or more meals.

> This is appropriate spiritually and for pregnancy/postpartum, EXCEPT,

> The next questions here is about food combining and advise to cheese

> or sour dairy at night (as well as cold anytime). Avoid mixing

> yoghurt or milk with banana (carcinogenic) avoid mixing milk with

> main meal (salt, sour Please be sure to also read

> www.sacredwindow.com/articles.html scroll down to the Milk article

> and take a look at the others as appropriate.

>

> i eat both hot and cold foods.

> Cold temp foods and drinks weakent he digestive fire/enzyme

> processes/integrity and create incomplete products of digestion in

> the colon and in the system as a whole

>

> my appetite is strong,

> This is good if it is real appetite. How much of the appetite is

> taste or need fast energy now (sometimes yeast or parasite or

> malabsorptive or weak blood sugar balance) driven and how much the

> knawing warmth in your tummy (real appetite born of fully digesting

> the last meal and ready for the next) that body enzymes are ready to

> do their job?

>

> but i do have a tendency to overeat.

> Above issues apply also, & /or emotional?, bodytype considerations

> & /or poor quality or balance of nutrients

>

> i eat all types of sweeteners , sugar white and brown, honey, maple

> syrup. i crave sweets and eat them everyday almost.

> Sweets are also very appropriate and needed extra during pregnancy

> and postpartum. But did you know that white sugar is processed over

> charred beef bones? This and its refined nature both cause it to hit

> hard and then lay you flat. Also, craving for sweets can indicate

> yeast or parasites, which will make your energy sag a lot, or

> insufficient proteins or good fats.

>

> for fats i have olive oil, udo's oil, butter and ghee. i use these

> on an almost daily basis.

> Almost dailyl ..... building a baby you need extra of the good

> quality cholesterols for your own hormonal balance and for baby, and

> you need extra (at least 2TBS daily I've found for most women) of the

> high lignan EFA3 oils which are some ingredients in Udos, but you

> would want to use along with some ground flax seed. Some olive oil

> is good too, to your taste. DO NOT SKIMP ON YOUR FATS! You might

> want to look at Sally Fallon's Nourishing Traditions first chapter to

> get an excellent discussio nof the different fats, proteins, sugars,

> etc and what they do, even without the ayurvedic info overlay we can

> discuss more.

>

> proteins include a variety of beans, tofu, cheese and nuts.

> How much/how many times a day ... PROBABLY 3x DAILY YOU NEED

> PROTEIN. I do not buy into the mega dosage, but 40 or so I think it

> is in grams a day of easily digested protein is wise minimum. How

> you are preparing, make sure it is freshly cooked, with DIGESTIVELY

> SUPPORTIVE SEASONINGS, NOT COLD/LEFTOVER/NOT WITH FRUIT also

> influences its value to you.

>

> carbs are rice, rice and wheat noodles, breads and cereal.

> Not knowing your body type/s I cannot comment on the whole wheat or

> other grains too much. Certainly more natural form is usually good,

> but many do poorly with whole wheat. AVOID DRIED CEREALS, UN TOASTED

> BREADS for the yeast, and add extra butterfat or other oils to any of

> these now!!! Add cinnamon, ginger, clove, etc as desired to cereal

> or rice. Avoid nutmeg while your bowels are slow though.

>

> i would say my food tends toward the drier side.

> If eating toast (not just bread, above) butter it or poor olive or

> sesame oil on it, AND dip it in soup. Make moist Indian type halvas

> for sweets - protein, fat, and spice rich as well as carb loading.

> Favor soups, minimize salads now, for raw do fresh fruits/juices not

> frozen or canned for the life force benefits to bowel action also

> (especially from citrus if it suits you). Lubricate and hydrate

> both - these work better than dry bran fiber approach for the

> bowels.

>

> So, MOISTURE AND OILINESS AND DIGESTIVE SEASONINGS AND BALANCE AND

> FOOD COMBINING are all to be addressed for wisedom in creating

> comfort, energy and vitality.

>

> i eat all these things at whatever time of day, sometimes late like9-

> 10 p.m.

> Yes, so eating that late and for many, after 6 (I usually eat 7ish

> and am fine) the body is tied up digesting during the hours it

> naturally wants to be cleaning house. So we will wake sluggish,

> congested, etc.

>

> So that should be a good start. hope you are well looking forward to

> hearing from you.love, emily

>

> So let us know which of these things stand out as the main issues,

> ok? Thank you for sharing your learning. (Donations are welcome

> from any so kind hearted).

> Warm REgards;

> Ysha (Martha)

>

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

I would want to know if she has been measuring large throughout this

pregnancy or if this is the first time it's been high. How has her weight

gain been in these first 24 weeks? Is she a big-boned woman? How about the

father of the baby? Is this her first baby? If not, what were the sizes of

her other(s), and has this happened before with the large measurements? Has

she had any ultrasounds? Was her period on 8/22 a normal period or lighter

than normal?

 

Perhaps she is carrying twins (where did the idea that it was a *miscarried*

twin come from?), but it would not be my first conclusion. I would first

want to rule out that she isn't actually 27-28 weeks pregnant instead of 24,

and if her LMP was a normal period, not lighter than usual, then she

probably is only 24 weeks. If she has had an ultrasound, then that would

diagnose or rule out twins (miscarried or not) or may indicate a large

amount of amniotic fluid that could be contributing to a large belly

measurement. And it is entirely possible that she's just got a nice big

baby growing in there.

 

If her measurements continue to grow well beyond her dates, she may want to

consider an ultrasound if she hasn't already had one. However, if

everything is normal, I would want her to feel reassured by that. There are

some docs who may interpret a normal but larger baby as " too big " for her to

deliver vaginally without knowing anything about her pelvis or her family

history and will try to scare her right into a scheduled cesarean. In my

opinion, that's not the kind of thing a pregnant woman at 24 weeks needs to

be stressing about for the next 4 months. So she should tread carefully,

but not let that prevent her from getting an ultrasound if that's

appropriate.

 

I imagine that her midwife is competent and just not worried about it at

this point. I hope she will keep us posted!

 

Wendy (CPM, LDM in Portland, OR)

 

 

On 2/8/06, Martha Oakes <martha wrote:

>

> Dear Group Members;

> Here you will find an interesting discussion where partial cause of

> problems under consideration is a retained miscarried twin; we do not

> know this yet. In any case, there is much in ayurvedic assessment and

> support which can take place, as you will see (most of conversation

> included) below. Midwife/nurse input most welcomed and was my first

> recommendation. If the twin theory is confirmed, I will be referring

> her to a more trained ayurvedic physician for more specific herbal

> support.

>

> Also, in addition to the discussion below from the last message, if

> the twin theory is accurate, the toxins from the tissue breakdown can

> be creating a strain on the elimination systems.

> Ysha

>

>

> healinghug108....

> Mon, 6 Feb 2006 22:43:44 -0600

>

>

> i just had an appointment with my midwife and i'm measuring larger

> for dates. i am positive i had my LMP aug 22, yet i am measuring

> 28cm. Any experience with this? the only explanation i've heard is a

> miscarried twin. hope all is well thanks for breaking new ground.

>

> love, emily in winnipeg

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Wendy and Kathy;

Hopefully you are right, it is my assumption also that her midwife

knows what she is doing; I haven't heard from her lately and have just

realized to make it easy and drop her a direct invite to join us here.

 

Certainly her case discussion has sparked a number of valuable points.

My understanding of her possible twin discussion was based on her care

with a midwife who has only been picking up 1 heartbeat. I made the

assumption this would only happen at this gestational time if a

possible twin had not survived, and thought this was her communication

to me.

 

Thank you for offering these clear points of consideration; I am so

happy to share in the conversations with midwives, both you and Kathy!

 

Warm REgards;

Ysha

>

> I would want to know if she has been measuring large throughout this

> pregnancy or if this is the first time it's been high. How has her

[Guest guest]

It is very difficult to distinguish two different heartbeats with the

instruments that most midwives use, even at term when the babies are

full-grown. Even with electronic fetal monitors it can be hard to do this,

and given that she is only 20-some weeks along in her pregnancy, I would

imagine that it would be nearly impossible to rule out twins with anything

other than an ultrasound.

 

I feel like I'm taking this off the ayurvedic path, but it seems like any

help that might be offered to her should be based on an appropriate

diagnosis of her condition. I hope we can get some more info!

 

Wendy

 

 

On 2/11/06, Martha Oakes <martha wrote:

>

>

> Certainly her case discussion has sparked a number of valuable points.

> My understanding of her possible twin discussion was based on her care

> with a midwife who has only been picking up 1 heartbeat. I made the

> assumption this would only happen at this gestational time if a

> possible twin had not survived, and thought this was her communication

> to me.

>