high blood pressure and pre-eclampsia

[Guest guest]

Hi Erin;

Any Docs or nurses and especially with ayurvedic background paying

attention here are especially invited to help us understand the needs

here. Certainly with the understanding each client is different and

what is posted cannot be used in a direct translation without

professional guidance. Certianly it is an all too present topic, not

old at all unfortunately in terms of clinical practice with pregnancy.

My guess it that this in an increasing phenomenon?

 

My formal training does not go here, nor my scope of professional

responsibility. I can only discuss in terms of what I have seen and

learned. Let me show my ignorance and ask how much the HBP and

pre-eclampsia tend to go together? Also how much non fluid overweight

seems to be involved?

 

THe way I think is to do a history and detailed assessment (as I am

sure you do) and the ayurvedic insights in terms of imbalances,

strengths, body types, dietary and lifestyle and other created

toxicities make themselves known. Then we look at where the client is

and go from there.

 

It is my understanding there is much excess acidity and often if not

usual high cortisol levels? Caffienne intake contributes here,

remember. and weak thyroid function? indicating combo of weak

kidney, liver and enzyme function, along with the fragile blood sugar

stability (often resultant from high cortisol, poor quality/quantity

fats intake and excess carbs). THe women on low income are more

prone? THey tend to take more of their food from carbs, which fills

and is least expensive, right?

 

THis complicates urinary function, acid/alkaline balance and weakens

digestion. When frequent very high protein meals are added to the tX,

the acidity goes even higher, both from the proteins and from the poor

digestion of them, commonly eating befor the digestive fire is ready.

 

THe swelling will not be well handled by simply increasing water

intake. My clients had been advised to ingest a gallon or more of

water a day, and were just getting worse. Rejuvenative diuretic named

gokeshura is my herb of choice along often with sandalwood for both

increasing urine output and cooling the body without aggravating the

metabolic principle ayurveda calls vata.

 

The body needs more healthy fats, both cholesterol and EFA3s to help

neutralize the acidity, normalize hormones, soothe and ground and

provide long burning energy, along with good regular protein intake,

best I can tell. ANd of course increased vegatable intake, cooked -

which is very hard for these clients to do on a high animal protein or

vegetable protein dietary regime every 2 -3 hours. THey just don't

have appetite or the room for other food! Reducing carbs except for

some healthy whole grains, but care to avoid the aggravators for many

of gluten or the whole wheat influences also is to be taken into

account in my mind.

 

Do you have any idea what percentage of such women are using some

antidepressant, or is this finally a NOT in practice for pregnant

women? From a conceptual standpoint I would like to have some of my

questions answered too! DOes this begin to shed some light for you,

or can you be more specific?

Warm REgards;

Ysha

[Guest guest]

Dear Ysha,

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. Yes I too would love

to hear from any ayurvedic OBs. Are there many on this group?

 

>how much the HBP and pre-eclampsia tend to go together?

 

Preeclampsia (and HELLP syndrome) is included under the broad

category of Hypertensive Discorders in Pregnancy (gestational

hypertension, chronic hypertension, etc.) because hypertension is

often a feature of the disorder. However, its etiology , clinical

presentation, and risks to mother and baby are very different from

the other hypertensive disorders. The hypertension in PE is a

consequence of the underlying disorder whereas with the others the

hypertension is the disorder. And unlike the other disorders, most of

the risks associated with PE result from the underlying

pathophysiology, not the hypertension itself.

 

>Also how much non fluid overweight seems to be involved?

 

I think that is hard to know….Most of the short-term weight gain in

preeclamptic women is interstitial fluid (edema). In severe cases can

be 10-15 pounds in a week! After birth when mom losses a lot of fluid

you'd have a more accurate guess, but it can take much time for all

the extra fluid to flush out. Also, although common, edema is not

always present with PE, and the diagnostic criteria has been updated

to reflect this.

 

>THe women on low income are more prone? They end to take more of

their food from carbs, which fills and is least expensive, right?

 

The data on this socioeconomic disposition is unclear. Yes, we do

know that PE is associated with increased overall caloric intake,

especially with carbs and unhealthy fats, trans fats, and possibly to

many omega6s. But the connection between increasing BMI and PE

appears to be even stronger and you're right the incidence of PE

overall has been increasing. There is also very strong evidence

demonstrating a significant decreased risk of PE proportional to the

quantity and degree of physical excercise a woman engages in pre-

conception and to a lesser extent during the first half of pregnancy.

 

> THe swelling will not be well handled by simply increasing water

> intake. My clients had been advised to ingest a gallon or more of

> water a day, and were just getting worse.

 

Yes this is so true. Your client may have been misinformed if she was

preeclamptic; Over-hydrating only increases the amount of

interstitial fluid and places the mother at greater risk of a

pulmonary edema.

 

> Rejuvenative diuretic named gokeshura is my herb of choice along

often with sandalwood for both increasing urine output and cooling

the body without aggravating…..vata.

 

fascinating! What kind of experience do you have with gokeshura and

PE? How you seen many women using this?

 

> The body needs more healthy fats, both cholesterol and EFA3s

 

Yes, I agree. Before conception! Because although signs and symptoms

of PE can often show up near term, PE begins with implantation and by

third trimester the disorder is well established, even if it

appears `mild'. Signs and symptoms may be improved by dietary

changes, but if the placenta and babe have not been receiving normal

blood flow the whole pregnancy, well, that's not really reversible.

 

> Do you have any idea what percentage of such women are using some

> antidepressant, or is this finally a NOT in practice for pregnant

women?

 

There does seem to be a connection between depression/anxiety and PE,

but again it is so difficult to weed out confounding influences. So

many lifestyle factors go togther, as you know: nervous system

disorders, poor diet, socioeconomic status, substance abuse, etc.

 

Thanks again Ysha for your input and I'd like to hear more about your

experience and that botanical too.

 

Warmly,

Erin

[Guest guest]

Don't know if this consistent with ayurveda diet, but when I did

midwifery training at the Farm, Ina May, talked about their total

lack of incidence of pre-eclampsia over the years. She thought it

was because of their high intake of soy protein (soy that that grew

and processed on the Farm) and others say when BP goes up and PE is

a possibility, to load up on eggs. For good development and

prevention of PE, Bradley Childbirth education recommends so many

(??)eggs per day throughout pregnancy.

 

Remember, I am not a medical doctor; just my two-cents for what it's

worth. ;-)

 

janel

 

ayurveda , " Martha Oakes "

<martha wrote:

>

> Hi Erin;

> Any Docs or nurses and especially with ayurvedic background paying

> attention here are especially invited to help us understand the

needs

> here. Certainly with the understanding each client is different

and

> what is posted cannot be used in a direct translation without

> professional guidance. Certianly it is an all too present topic,

not

> old at all unfortunately in terms of clinical practice with

pregnancy.

> My guess it that this in an increasing phenomenon?

>

> My formal training does not go here, nor my scope of professional

> responsibility. I can only discuss in terms of what I have seen

and

> learned. Let me show my ignorance and ask how much the HBP and

> pre-eclampsia tend to go together? Also how much non fluid

overweight

> seems to be involved?

>

> THe way I think is to do a history and detailed assessment (as I am

> sure you do) and the ayurvedic insights in terms of imbalances,

> strengths, body types, dietary and lifestyle and other created

> toxicities make themselves known. Then we look at where the

client is

> and go from there.

>

> It is my understanding there is much excess acidity and often if

not

> usual high cortisol levels? Caffienne intake contributes here,

> remember. and weak thyroid function? indicating combo of weak

> kidney, liver and enzyme function, along with the fragile blood

sugar

> stability (often resultant from high cortisol, poor

quality/quantity

> fats intake and excess carbs). THe women on low income are more

> prone? THey tend to take more of their food from carbs, which

fills

> and is least expensive, right?

>

> THis complicates urinary function, acid/alkaline balance and

weakens

> digestion. When frequent very high protein meals are added to the

tX,

> the acidity goes even higher, both from the proteins and from the

poor

> digestion of them, commonly eating befor the digestive fire is

ready.

>

> THe swelling will not be well handled by simply increasing water

> intake. My clients had been advised to ingest a gallon or more of

> water a day, and were just getting worse. Rejuvenative diuretic

named

> gokeshura is my herb of choice along often with sandalwood for both

> increasing urine output and cooling the body without aggravating

the

> metabolic principle ayurveda calls vata.

>

> The body needs more healthy fats, both cholesterol and EFA3s to

help

> neutralize the acidity, normalize hormones, soothe and ground and

> provide long burning energy, along with good regular protein

intake,

> best I can tell. ANd of course increased vegatable intake, cooked -

> which is very hard for these clients to do on a high animal

protein or

> vegetable protein dietary regime every 2 -3 hours. THey just don't

> have appetite or the room for other food! Reducing carbs except

for

> some healthy whole grains, but care to avoid the aggravators for

many

> of gluten or the whole wheat influences also is to be taken into

> account in my mind.

>

> Do you have any idea what percentage of such women are using some

> antidepressant, or is this finally a NOT in practice for pregnant

> women? From a conceptual standpoint I would like to have some of

my

> questions answered too! DOes this begin to shed some light for

you,

> or can you be more specific?

> Warm REgards;

> Ysha

>

[Guest guest]

THanks for sharing this, Janel. There are so many such opinions in

circulation, and it is good exercise of our ayurvedic wisdom and

principles to address them. I've tremendous respect for Ina May ...

but not so much respect for soy. If you research on the net for an

article called " The Ploy of Soy " , you will get a taste of why from

contemporary research (from Sally Fallon, very active in the Weston

Price Foundation). From both my ayurvedic training and client

experience, I am also wary of lots of soy. Miso is good, but many

have so much digestive distress with soy milk and tofu type

products. The soy cheese reminds me of velveta cheese, so processed

I don't trust it anyway, and dense enough to clog channels just as

easily or more! But of course, those with genetic predispositions

such as from Asia do better, but looking at the real history, it was

mostly miso and tempeh.

 

I beleive Ina May's farm results about pre eclampsia is very much

about healthy exercise, water intake, more alkalyzing diet, and many

other beneficial dietary and lifestyle considerations. And, soy in

source form can be more alkalysing (sprouts!) But tofu, soy milk,

and sprouts all are drying, more airy and gas producing - increase

vata, of great concern postpartum and to considerable extent during

pregnancy also. Cooked soy sprouts with carminative seasonings, some

saltiness or seaweed and oil or butter can be very supportive.

 

I consider seaweed a very good food for the PE list, very alkalyzing

(not substitute for needed proteins, but minerally very supportive).

 

Regarding Dr. Brewer's diet and the others promoting such heavy

protein intake, many of us see it complicating not directly healing.

As mentioned in previous discussion, More and regular proteins and

quality fats also over the excess carbs and junk food diet is

important, also both for reducing cravings for the " bad guys " . But

high protein intake as recommended becomse very difficult on

digestion, creating much excess acidity, amonia, gas, and MORE

TOXINS!

 

Ayurvedic approach will reflect the above considerations, also

looking at what is going on with the woman's digestive strength,

incomplete products of digestion (ie, more toxins), temp as well as

quantity and quality of beverages, alkalyzing vegetable, fruits and

fats intake, her body type/imbalances, dietary specifics by food, and

more.

 

Not only are there many not eating eggs for spiritual reasons, so we

need to find other solutions, but more to the point, eggs increase

pitta and are very acid forming. Increase of these factors increases

risk fo r HBP and toxemia! My experience is they are excellent in

good moderation, depending upon the individual. The pitta can be

somewhat adjusted with things like coriander, fennel, cilantro, mint

and coconut, but not the acid forming quality with high consumption.

Eggs of course are high in EFAs and B12, both important for fetal

development and maternal health. Variety is usually very important

for health here too.

 

And overloading the system with proteins I've seen causing clients to

loose their appetite/no room for the other foods (veggies esp) which

balance both nutrients and acid/alkaline balance. WHich by the way

is not a classical consideration with ayurved (acid/alkaline),

although effects of such foods are in some different and longer

discussion.

 

Oh my, Bradly educators I thought you said Brewer. They are doing

this too? Quite appreciate your sharing your " two cents " . There is

much to be learned and much to be sorted, big reason for hosting this

forum. I personally love to have opportunity (as you can tell!)to

compare notes and spell it out. And I'm always learning, such as in

the other active topic.

WArm REgards,

Ysha

 

> midwifery training at the Farm, Ina May, talked about their total

> lack of incidence of pre-eclampsia over the years. She thought it

> was because of their high intake of soy protein (soy that that grew

> and processed on the Farm) and others say when BP goes up and PE is

> a possibility, to load up on eggs. For good development and

> prevention of PE, Bradley Childbirth education recommends so many

> (??)eggs per day throughout pregnancy.