Guest guest Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 --- Steve clarke <stevat2002 wrote: > > > Unusual case of fixed swelling at extremity. > > The patient had undergone su jok treatment with > homeopathy for loose bowel problems. > > Now he has a swelling at little finger of rt foot, > just above bl 66. > > The bulge simply wont go. > > Anybody please inform. > > Yours sincerely > > The patient should drink a lot of water. No joke. It is the best remedy for swelling due to a healing crises from natural treatments. If they say they are drinking a lot tell them to drink more. Laf ===== Learn Out of Body Travel: http://www.crystalbroadcast.com/obee.html or just visit my home page: http://www.crystalbroadcast.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Hello Martha and All, I am not new to this group, but this may be my first post. I am one of Martha's Boulder students...My current client gave birth about a week ago and still has lots of swelling in her ankles and face. She says yesterday she finally started to have very productive urination. She is also extremely warm (not feverish just feeling hot) which is very uncharacteristic for her, usually she is bundled in shawls. Today was the first day I have seen her, so she has not been on a vata pacifying diet as yet nor has she been drinking fennel/fenugreek tea. Any suggestions in helping to move the fluid out. Blessings, Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 This is the handout I use for my postpartum doula clients. I would love to know other ideas, or disagreements to mine. I know Martha will have much to say about this. Vicky - " Susan Newkumet " <10thmoon <ayurveda > Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:05 AM Edema > Hello Martha and All, > I am not new to this group, but this may be my first post. I am one > of Martha's Boulder students...My current client gave birth about a > week ago and still has lots of swelling in her ankles and face. She > says yesterday she finally started to have very productive urination. > She is also extremely warm (not feverish just feeling hot) which is > very uncharacteristic for her, usually she is bundled in shawls. Today > was the first day I have seen her, so she has not been on a vata > pacifying diet as yet nor has she been drinking fennel/fenugreek tea. > Any suggestions in helping to move the fluid out. > Blessings, > Susan > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Dear Susan - Great to hear you are back with the work! Your client should be very pleased with how she feels really soon. Without more detail, of course there maybe many factors involved, such as improper use of sweets and dairy and cold foods I have seen give congested urinary output - and risk for infection. Have you looked at my recent article on correct use of milk? http://www.sacredwindow.com/Articles-Milk.html It may be useful to share with her, save you some breath too. The postpartum hot oil massage often begins to reduce the swelling significantly very quickly. In addition I would be using one of the essential oils such as lemongrass on ankles when massaging that area, perhaps some of the Endoflex blend over thyroid (hm, can't intellectually justify that one right now, except my guess her agni is very low, and those go together. IN which case other protocols for agni support are extra important). Lemongrass is a bit strong, needs a little dilution so care around face, but other things will adjust this. Have you done a full intake on her, and run the daily questions by her ? I do this with the sheet even before the first massage, to get the starting conditions, causes and counseling in the open. Now is the time to talk with me on the phone as part of your internship requirments to go over these things in detail. Many little things may come out. And as you know, little things make such a big difference in these early weeks postpartum. Often women find even chilly vata metabolism warmed up by pregnancy, but postpartum, gives me cause for concern. Again, you know how easily chilled postpartum women are. It is common for 1 - 3 three days when the milk is coming in to experience what is commonly called milk fever, a low grade fever. Is her milk coming in late? I'd probably be giving her 2 - 3 cups strong fenugreek tea (1 tsp boiled just few minutes) daily in addition to 1.5 quarts of the really weak fennel-fenugreek (the 1 tsp / 2 quarts of water recipe) for a few days to be sure there is no retained placenta, and to be sure the apana prana is working correctly. Is the heat more in upper body? If all over and continuing, I'd definitely alert the midwife or doc, infection is not your responsibility. And then if she is interested in immune support and alternatives in the process, discuss essential oils. After basics are assessed and dietary/lifestyle changes underway, I'd consider an herbal formula personalized for her which would favor gokeshura, which is not only gently diuretic, but vata and pitta pacifying and a rejuvenative tonic (rasayana) herb, unlike most diuretics which are drying this one makes the urinary tissues feel like silk. Sonya has excellent results with Valor blend essential oil in the massage oil on the fluid reduction. Again, the repeated massage techniques on ankles, feet, legs, all over is alone very helpful. Please give me a call. 641 472-1695. Prepare a log sheet to track the time and make brief notes about client/date and what you are learning. Internship fee can be mailed. Warm Regards; Martha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Hi Vicki; deletes attachments; would you email it to me and I can put it in our files section? Certainly it can be cut/pasted here also, but to retain format the files work better. I look forward to seeing what you are using. Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 One thing that leads to such edema is the IV administering fluids to moms who were induced, or had C-sections or various other reasons. The babies even get the extra fluids, then he pees a lot and then the dr. says he lost too much weight, and then put him on formula. If I were young and having babies again, I would stay so far away from hospitals. But now I'm rambling. Edema Watermelon & Watermelon seeds Pumpkin seeds Celery Cucumber Eat calcium & protein foods Teas: (3 cups) Fennel Watercress Raspberry Nettle dandelion Parsley extract Drink Propel (made by Gatorade) Danzen and anti-inflammatory (serrapeptase) Bromelain/trypsin Ibuprofen Check blood pressure ¼ tsp ground sage 3 X Day Peppermint gtts Soak, hot tub, not over 100 degrees Don't avoid salt, eat to taste Drink water Physical activity Pump once a day in addition to breastfeeding to empty breasts completely to avoid mastitis - " Martha Oakes " <martha <ayurveda > Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:51 PM Re: Edema > Hi Vicki; > deletes attachments; would you email it to me and I can put it > in our files section? Certainly it can be cut/pasted here also, but > to retain format the files work better. I look forward to seeing what > you are using. > Martha > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Vicki, your offerings which encompass allopathic and holistic perinatal care frameworks both in some way demonstrate the value of looking from all sides. What a rich collection we have, adding these to the ayurvedic commentaries! See below in ref the list of diuretic foods and all - Edema Supports for Postpartum Mothers Postpartum Doula Handout - Vicki York Ayurvedic Postpartum commentary – Martha Oakes Watermelon & Watermelon seeds Watermelon is good at room temp not chilled, and at least two hours from other food. Some other fruit ½ hour or more is fine. The seeds …chew well if you feel to use some, but, use short term as they are rough on tender innards, and tend to increase vata, already aggravated postpartum. Pumpkin seeds Yum, toasted or raw as you like. Are they diuretic? Celery & Cucumber Nice mineral balancers and alkalyzers, sometimes what body is doing with fluid. Postpartum, use only cooked if you want to avoid seeds of colic for baby and gas for mom. Use butter or oil and season with anise, ginger, pepper, coriander, fennel, like that. Not nutmeg, helps you hold water. Eat calcium & protein foods Sounds like wise advise. Again, the calcium will help the body to alkalize more efficiently, and protein over so much carbs also. How else the protein works? Teas: (3 cups) Fennel, Watercress, Raspberry, Nettle, Dandelion Parsley extract I'd favor the fennel, parsley, and watercress - the latter two are warming, the former also help reduce vata and support lactation, etc. The Raspberry, nettle and dandelion leaves can create an unhealthy dryness from their bitter and astringent qualities, mostly contraindicated postpartum in any quantity, and mothers often just don't want to keep using them. Short term is fine, but favor in combination with vata reducing spices also such as cardamom, ginger and cinnamon. See also on the forum about gokesura. Drink Propel (made by Gatorade) Is this for electrolyte balance? The artificials in this stuff are no nos to me, but in a pinch it is of course fine. There are good alternative Gatorade type drinks at the natural foods stores/sections Danzen and anti-inflammatory (serrapeptase) ? how does this work, and how is it taken? Bromelain/trypsin ? how does this work, and how is it taken? Ibuprofen ? how does this work, and how is it taken? These may be good short term advice to use what is in the cabinet, but in my opinion not needed or preferred Check blood pressure ¼ tsp ground sage 3 X Day Postpartum? Larger amounts, a few cups of sage tea daily, is standard to dry up the milk. Some respond to much lower doses. Sage is also very astringent in taste, creating dryness, yes, but also coldness. Both of these qualities are already at issue with postpartum moms and so this herb is used at most about 1/8 tsp in occasional recipes. Peppermint gtts What is gtts? Peppermint is extremely cooling and vata aggravating also, so if we use it, it is with very pitta (hot natured) mamas in the summertime for gas when fennel is not available or disliked. Soak, hot tub, not over 100 degrees Don't avoid salt, eat to taste I understand the pink rock salt or French high quality high mineral sea salt is tested to actually help lower blood pressure! Postpartum it is important to eat some salt also, glad to hear you say this. Drink water Favor warm water, or room temp with a drop of fennel oil in it. Physical activity After childbirth, the prescribed physical activity for a few weeks outside of infant and basic self care including lots of rest is repetitive warm oil massage, daily. A self massage instruction is easily learned form our online resources, if an AyurDoula or other suitable therapist is not available. We find this VERY effective therapy for edema. Adding essential oils of lemongrass, cypress, geranium, or the blend Valor topically also augment the reduction of fluid retention very well in our experience. Pump once a day in addition to breastfeeding to empty breasts completely to avoid mastitis And REST. Greatest cause of mastitis according to midwifery texts is overdoing. This also keeps the body from taking care of itself, and the awareness from listening in to appropriate signals for the same. See other notes on the forum posted November 2, 2005. Edited November 4, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 If it is important to get electrolytes, I would recommend coconut water (if you can find it preservative free). I buy it frozen at a Carribean ethnic store near me. This is what I drank throughout my labour, as I had read one needed to supplement with electrolytes to have a strong labour. I had also read on Dr. Mercola that coconut water (not coconut milk) is the highest source of electrolytes in nature. I think this is what made my labour so productive - I don't consider myself a very strong person - but my doula told me that my body was really built for labour and she had never seen anyone do it so well. Linda Meadows - Martha Oakes Drink Propel (made by Gatorade) Is this for electrolyte balance? The artificials in this stuff are no nos to me, but in a pinch it is of course fine. There are good alternative Gatorade type drinks at the natural foods stores/sections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Yes, Llinda! I love it too. When I was in Florida I could buy it in 8 oz boxes, kinda like rice milk but different shape. Green mostly, the brand I don't remember had the name Harvest in it. Short of the fresh young coconut water, it was very satisfying. Again, bear in mind that for postpartum, it is quite cooling and hance needs a balancing influence such as ginger or warmth, some such. For labor, we get really warmed up anyway. Just take room temp or warm tho would be ayurvedically best, because of the dramatic changes vata is also at issue asking for the grounding and calming and absorptive support of warmth. Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 i never hesitate to needle areas of edema. the basic principle of moving qi and fluids is my intention and i've never had anything but positive results. actually EXCELLENT results. i rarley recall patients complaining of pain in the process. Susan Schiff, AP Florida Sandy L River <mountainlaurel Chinese Medicine Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:05:24 -0600 (CST) Edema I don't tend to needle areas with edema, although sometimes I am tempted, such as with swollen ankles. I know that it can be more painful to needle into edema. Can someone describe why needling or using other surface techniques in an area with edema is not a good idea? Thanks, Sandy River, LAc Maine Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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