ppd, anxiety, etc distinctions?

March 29, 2005

Hey Vicki -

Maybe I'm going to bust you again tee hee .. Actually, it ia a sharing

from Ayurveda, not me, and I can only mention - what- in some detail,

not why as that is some layered depth of study. However, when we

study the foundations of ayurvedic medicine we see a collection of

related symptoms all having to do with imbalances of Vata dosha.

Inclusive of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive, psychosis, low

immune strength, low energy, hashimotos thyroid, constipation, dry

skin, irregular appetite, thirst, memory and other more common issues.

It is very interesting! Certainly there are 5 sub-types of the vata

dosha which can be involved in varying degrees within varying body

types, environmental and other conditions, but the principles

underlying these symptoms are very interestingly connected to natural

postpartum physiological changes and their extremes.

This below interesting comment I had not reflected on (it is truely

beyond our professoinal scope of practice but so are many things

valuable to know) - your information:

pp depression can not turn into psychosis, it's either one or the other.

> psychosis usually starts sooner than ppd. Vicky

This will be interesting to me to understand the mechanism more in

both common symptomatology and ayurvedic framework of understanding.

I know I have reviewed it in notes before, confirming the ayurvedic

understanding application, but not engaging this info we forget, eh?

I personally get really peaved by what PPInternational is so proud to

present in their " expert opinions " having talked at some length on the

phone with the founder and found her totally unreceptive to more

valuable knowledge unless I first signed in and paid my dues - even

for speakers to their organization, and I lived right there in SBat

the time, offering my services/inservices no charge. But that may have

been a little karmic to do, who knows. there are so many good service

and professionally related organiztions, I can't choose at this time

very many to belong to! (Currently now a CAPPA member as they are

giving a " free " big conference in Orlando, right nearby.)

Anyway, Ayurveda does explain the common ground which makes it easy to

be cursory about the nomenclature around " different disseases or

disorders " . IE, to support the return to balance for them all

starting with AyurDoula care modalities, the process is pretty much

the same, and not too difficult from a biological management point of

view. Now the stickiness of emotional confusions - projections,

fears, attachments etc which can get in the way of communications

about, receptivity to, and compliance with the protocols is another

matter, and most heavily complicated if the client is consulting a

psychological professional and/or doc already who is prescribing

antidepressants - and " therapy " for her mental/emotional

instabilities.

Otherwise the essential oils protocols come in very helpful here to

quickly turn things around while a mother gets down to the " homework "

to make the change hold (the Ayurvedic components), and they also

really clean up that stickiness a lot. No guarantees, I've had some

whew really tough cases. There are the wonderful rapid turnarounds

(Jenny, a textbook psychotic with her first birth and depressed with

each successive, enraged with management of forth and at that time

called me for care etc; and another woman suicidal/recovering alcholic

at 6 weeks for example). And there are the ones who, in spite of

rapid reversal experiences had great difficulty commiting to the keys

when all the pulls and advice made them choose to go only with what

they already knew and the allopathic advices. It is easy to be

overwhelmed anyway postpartum! And It is not our job or scope of

practice as PPADoulas to even be expected to be trusted for advice in

this situation. We can only offer supportive measures and time-tested

ancient knowledge.

Note, however, that even the founder of the Depression after Delivery

foundation was saying 12 years ago, if your doctor or shrink thinks

it is in your head or heart, find another doc quick as you can.

(Jeanne Driscoll).

Rebecca, go look at your foundations of Ayurveda notes. Hmm, I didn't

teach your class .... in several I've been in, though, and in the

better textbooks of Ayurveda, if you look at the common symptoms of

vata imbalance, you should see a very comprehensive list of common

postpartum imblances/symptoms. There are a few other not directly

vata symptoms of course, partly due to the predominance of pitta body

type dominant women in our culture, partly due to the low agni

(digestive fire/enzyme processes) conditions after birth creating

possibility for kapha ama (accumulations of certain types of wastes

and obstructions) - all doshic & ama complications.

It will be valuable, sounds like, to go over together the list of

symptoms attributed to each " mental " diagnosis we are discussing, and

see the aspects of vata vikruti (imbalance) involved. But it takes

some ayurvedic lingo and understanding, otherwise it is an advanced

class and hourse online! I teach several advanced smaller units as

part of the AyurDoula training which include PPD focus, SSRIs update,

and Advanced/Safe Postpartum Herbals. I only define PPPsychosis and

leave that for further advanced study with the ayurvedic physicians.

The Level 1 class part two of Foundatoins of Ayurvedic medicine, which

goes in more detail over many commonly available ayurvedic herbs

identifies which are more for vata anxiety, which is antidepressant,

psychosis, (not that I attempt to treat this nor has it been necessary

to make such decision in my practice) at all many properties. Some of

them are indicated in most cases, and the formula has to be balanced

with several herbs.

My vision for a Level 3 internship with Terra Raphael, Licensed

Midwife and ayurvedic practitioner in Boulder, CO would prepare the

perinatal professional to work with these things clinically as well as

for preconception, pregnancy and birth. The classes are all already

available - in Boulder with Dr. Buhrman, Shresta, Alecananda Devi and

probably others, and other places, but a directed focus of an

internship for Perinatal AyurDoula and beyond is not structured yet.

Terra and I have discussed on several occasions.

My girlfriend and previous client, Jenny, mentioned for her psychosis

story and ebook on the PPD page of my website, worked very effectively

with essential oils, nutrition, and the full postpartum AyurDoula care.

Perhaps your reference to the different categories is about that page,

and I take it as good advice to nonetheless rename it. What -

postpartum mood imbalances? I really should strive to avoid

allopathic nomenclature as much as possible. And include on those

pages links to more info for crisis clients. This has been started on

the new Resources section, BTW.

Oh my, that was a good hours discussion right there!

Have a peaceful evening!

Martha

> Martha, one little tidbit of inf I want everyone to know about.

There are several postpartum mood disorders. One is Postpartum

Depression. others, are pp obsessive compulsive disorder, anxiety

disorder, etc. Another one is

> Postpartum Psychosis. pp psychosis is a different disease from pp

depression pp depression can not turn into psychosis, it's either one

or the other.

> psychosis usually starts sooner than ppd. Vicky

>

> ----

>

> Martha Oakes

> 03/26/05 22:07:02

> ayurveda

> Re: question from a newbie

>

> Hi Vicky;

> In response to your questions best I can -

> > questions are: how do you all afford all these essential oils and

other

> I started buying my essential oils after having 2 clients in one week

> with hospital crises, bad digestion, bad complience with ayurvedic

> diet postpartum, bonding issues, and PPD, one really serious. I had

> recently heard Vicki Opfer who had studied with Master Herbalist Hana

> Kroger and become one of her national trainers talk about these oils

> from Young Living and I had loved them, bought their (great)

> colon/parasite cleanse, and said to myself, " when my ship comes in,

> these would be great " , promptly forgot. The heavy PPD case wouldn't

> take the (very good formula of) herbs also, and I knew we had to do

> something diff fast, she was a textbook psychotic with baby #1 (this

> was #4).

>

> I called her and said, " what would you do? I need more tools, I just

> know it is possible to turn this around! " Vicki got 6 sample bottles

> in my hands by the next day (no easy task) and the results sold both

> moms. And I said, " OK God, I'll use them, having really been turning

> my nose up as " I have better tools with Ayurveda " . I had to help them

> order, and realized if I placed an order the same month, I had a nice

> discount. That's how I started, month by month. Usually you only use

> 1 - 3 drops topically, and for safety you can always add equal amount

> vegetable oil if you wish; sometimes it is recommended. Pick a few

> key ones, even just 2 blends (gives you many oils at once, right?)

> Valor and Joy for big help with the emotions. Fennel for gassy

> tummies and constipation help too. Or just Valor and an Essential 7

> kit if you can afford (has Joy) LIke that.

>

> Sounds like you havn't toured the website recently? Not all buttons

> work, but if you go to site map, you will see the many pages on EOILS,

> all with links for ordering. More importantly, much info on BASICS,

> SAFETY, and many use ideas from the many testimonials and recipes you

> will find there.

>

> > things. Re: the need for sulphur, can't one just eat more onions and

> garlic?

> Sulphur bearing protein is different thing, and it starts to work

> before the food gets to the mouth in some ways, prepared in puree.

> Much easier way to take flax oil, anyway. Was that your queston?

>

> > And, being new to ayurvedic medicine, I don't recognize the names of

> 3/4 of

> > these products and don't where to get them.

> The many ayurvedic names listed on the candida articles? I don't

> recognize all of them either, my problem with some of those docs from

> India who have no idea what we dont know or have access to. Rebecca

> did step one collecting this data, now homework for those of us when

> we can to sort yes cull and id so it is much more useful. Sorry,

> can't get there yet. But if you want an ayurvedic herb, or more info

> how to use the ones I know/have, I have quite a pharmacy, I buy by the

> 1/2 or 1 pound. ALso can refer you to an herbal pharmacist in

> Boulder, who puts together your formula and sends reasonably. And

> can relay my sources. Best to discuss what you want first.

>

> Such as Thieves Oil and

> > ImmuPower and Exodus II, just in this last e-mail. And also (hope I

> don't

> Please consider ordering via my website, makes me more free to take

> time to educate, you know how that works. But that's precursor to

> sending to Caleb Eaton's wonderful site about the oil blend called

> Thieves. All three products are sold by young Living.

>

> > shock you wish my ignorance) but I have heard one shouldn't use

> these oils

> > internally as they may burn tissues, or be too strong for mucus

> membranes.

> You are cute. I'm not shocked. And you aren't ignorant, safety is

> very important. Of course there are some oils which are hot - esp

> those high in phenols. And if you dilute them with water they get

> worse. Although some are deeply soothing to mucus tissues, and I have

> used Myrrh, along with Helichrysum, Frankincence, and the Immupower

> blend vaginally twice daily in capsules to dissolve (clean pap smear

> in 6 weeks) a precancerous growth. Hence layered knowledge and

> resources in place with invite to also call for advice/help selecting

> and using. Hence the portal to my website section on EOILS which is

> called, BASICS.

>

> Info such as this included there: because oils and fats concentrate

> enviro toxins and pesticides as they grow, and because many (most)

> eoils are final distillation batch washed into the rest with solvent

> to get it all, and because there are 10X as many eoils sold in the

> world as grown meaning many adulterated as well as synthetic, we

> cannot from these expect less than side effects. And when someone has

> quite an accumulation/backlog of such toxins in their body already,

> and uses any of the majority of cleaning, body care, shampoo, dental

> care and such products on their body rich in toxic chemicals, and does

> not eat enough veggies, drink enough water, or otherwise is just

> poised with this stuff in skin or circulation, it can be pushed out in

> a temp rash or headache experience (might not show up same place the

> eoil was applied) it more commonlhy is result of the eils faciliting

> release of these impurities. Yes, there are basic guidelines.

>

> However, there is more than that to be concerned about due to the

> Aromaterrorists' training which is based upon the english model, given

> by a wonderful woman who was married to an MD and didn't want to

> ruffle the medical community feathers using eoils too dramatically or

> with any possible risk, hence what has become gospel, dilute till you

> can barely smell it etc. if you go to www.youngliving.com you will

> see an indepth article called Quackwatch rebuttal on the home page,

> where crazy allegations even that Dr. Young drowned his newborn in a

> waterbirth are clearly addressed. Allegations by the Steven Barrett

> " Dr " who also tries to discredit Deepak Chopra, Andrew Weill, and all

> the other outspoken alternative medical advocates.

>

> Thanks for the opportunity to share, and let me know how else I might

> help you after you have taken a look here -

> www.sacredwindow.com/EO-Basics.html and the sitemap link.

> Warm REgards;

> Martha

>

March 29, 2005

Martha: My refs to the different mood disorders are based on what is

accepted in psychiatrists circles at this time. Certainly many or all may

start with ayurvedic imbalances, but in the end they manifest as diseases

with certain sets of symptoms that we have come to treat in various ways,

allopathics meds, physical, emotional and mental support and mothering and

education so she won't be so afraid of herself. When she had a family to

care for she doens't have years to do the psycho/physical work necessary to

cure the imbalance. Yes, in time, with or without herbs depression will go

away. Usually docs jump on prescribing meds way too soon, and sometimes when

its just baby blues and not a pp mood disorder at all.

The main point I was trying to make however: Many mothers have the mistaken

notion that pp depression may " turn into psychosis " and they will kill their

kids. It is extremely important to tell her that it doens't work that any

more than measles turn into mumps, different diseases. Psychosis is

frightening for the patient and the caregiver or family. I have had clients

with it and it is not to be messed with, they need to be checked into the

hospital right away and treated or they will not be able to function at all.

Herbs don't cut it at that point. At that point. Yes, after the meds help

with the hard symptoms, certainly there is a lot of balancing the mom needs

to do for the rest of her life. But left untreated, it affects her brain

(some mental illness actually causes brain damage if left untreated) and

also her children.

The only reason we are discussing this at all is because it is still in the

realm of theory, unfortunately, and we could go on forever. I am not

qualified to expound but I can give you the e-mail of one who is Wendy Davis

PhD. family counselor, survivor of ppd and rep for PSI for Oregon and the

founder of Baby Blues Connection in Oregon. I was her doula when she had it

10 yrs, ago and she chose to not use meds, so it took a year or so for it to

be gone, but as she says meds only treat the hard symptoms, only time and

proper support cures the disease. And if you guys put your heads together, a

few things besides time, essential oils etc.and the wonderful things you

would do for a mom. Wendy would probably love to hear about your ideas and I

hope you contact her.

Vicky