Guest guest Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Original Message: " Vicky York " <vmyork Marty, I lost the ayurvedic postpartum doula site address, but I wanted to post a question: What do ayurvedic practitioners have to say about the rubber bulb syringes they use to suction the mouths of defenseless little newborns? No bias here:) Vicky Hi Vicky; I've always had some difficulty with the plastic syrynge thing too, though it sure helped my little ones before they could blow their nose to pull respiratory obstructions out. But here's maybe what you are looking for - one of my teachers, Dr. Sarita Shrestha, who runs two birth clinics/directing the midwives and pre/postnatal/crisis stuff and has started an all ayurveda hospital and herb farm in Nepal did a class in Boulder on newborns and infants, for which I have the tape. I remember her talking in detail about swabbing the mouth out and moistening/wiping the nose out with strong saline soaked cotton. The salt helps loosen and dissolve the sticky secretions which block the nasal and respiratory passages. If you need more info, I'll have to listen again after the 16th of Aug (late tax deadline). Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Marti: I know you are very busy. Only if you have time sometime I would love any more info about their suctioning ideas. For babies and toddlers, the bulb syringe inflames the tissues further causing more stuffiness. The respiratory obstructions (ya mean boogers?) work themselves out eventually or a Q-tip works well, with the right technique. The bulb syringes hurt their throats and impede attempts at breastfeeding later. The babies hate it and I bet your toddlers had to be handcuffed for it. I tried it on myself once and had instant empathy:) Vicky York - doulaminerva ayurveda Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:37 PM [ayurveda] bulb syringes question from Vicky Original Message:"Vicky York" <vmyorkMarty, I lost the ayurvedic postpartum doula site address, but I wanted to post a question:What do ayurvedic practitioners have to say about the rubber bulb syringes they use to suction the mouths of defenseless little newborns? No bias here:)VickyHi Vicky;I've always had some difficulty with the plastic syrynge thing too, though it sure helped my little ones before they could blow their nose to pull respiratory obstructions out. But here's maybe what you are looking for - one of my teachers, Dr. Sarita Shrestha, who runs two birth clinics/directing the midwives and pre/postnatal/crisis stuff and has started an all ayurveda hospital and herb farm in Nepal did a class in Boulder on newborns and infants, for which I have the tape. I remember her talking in detail about swabbing the mouth out and moistening/wiping the nose out with strong saline soaked cotton. The salt helps loosen and dissolve the sticky secretions which block the nasal and respiratory passages. If you need more info, I'll have to listen again after the 16th of Aug (late tax deadline).Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 you could make something similar to what they use in the hospitals or what the midwives use in their home kits....a long thin platic tubing that is small in diameter which you put one end in the babes opening (nose/throat) and the other in your mouth using your breath to pull the obstruction (boogie!) out. point being the thing is long enough so you don't end up with it in your mouth! the boogies i mean! its a little less bulky than the bulbs. bless rebecca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 That is something like what was called a DeLee suction device which was used in nurseries in the 70's when i was a newborn nursery nurse. But the point is this is yet another assault on the baby as soon as he is born that I don't think is necessary. Shouldn't wiping his mouth out be enough? Isn't all this suctioning stuff just about liability on the hospital's part? I mean, what did the native americans and pioneers do without these things? Vicky - Rebecca Vann ayurveda Saturday, August 14, 2004 1:55 PM Re: [ayurveda] Re: bulb syringes question from Vicky you could make something similar to what they use inthe hospitals or what the midwives use in their homekits....a long thin platic tubing that is small indiameter which you put one end in the babes opening(nose/throat) and the other in your mouth using yourbreath to pull the obstruction (boogie!) out.point being the thing is long enough so you don't endup with it in your mouth! the boogies i mean!its a little less bulky than the bulbs.blessrebecca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 i bet they used something similar just made of natural materials, like a reed or something. i was at a birth a couple weeks ago and the babe was breathing gurgly, they did the suction tube thing and got like an ounce and a half of phlegm from her. so it seems that it has some good use. i agree it is a little invasive but sometimes its that or the other (?) whatever would happen if you didn't remove the obstructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 The reason they got an ounce and a half is because they aspirated the babies stomach, where the phlegm does no harm and they gotten even more than that if they did it after a feeding. It's when the baby spits it up and it doesn't come all the way up that she struggles. Then you put the head down perhaps wipe out her mouth and maybe gag her gently and up it comes. I did it many times in the nursery. I really bet no pioneer or native american stuck a reed down a babies throat. Also, if the baby is allowed to be born with the mom squatting, then her baby's head would be down while she is being squeezed out and much phlegm works it's way out naturally. I am sincerely not trying to be argumentative, I am just trying to get you to look at it naturally and from the baby's point of view and with comon sense. Vicky - Rebecca Vann ayurveda Sunday, August 15, 2004 1:20 PM [ayurveda] Re: bulb syringes question from Vicky i bet they used something similar just made of naturalmaterials, like a reed or something. i was at a birtha couple weeks ago and the babe was breathing gurgly,they did the suction tube thing and got like an ounceand a half of phlegm from her. so it seems that ithas some good use. i agree it is a little invasivebut sometimes its that or the other (?) whateverwould happen if you didn't remove the obstructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 I heard that some Native Americans used to just put their mouth over the baby’s mouth or nose and just suck, and then spit out anything that came up. This was done by the parents themselves. It seems pretty natural and non-invasive, but I don’t know it I could stomach it, I suppose if I was the parent and nothing else was available, I would not hastate to use this method. By the way sorry for all the lurking.... I will send an intro soon Your aspiring servant, Rasa Vilasini d.d. Lotus Birthing Services Professional Labor Support Rasa V. Devadiga- Birth Doula, Midwife Apprentice Providing continuous physical, emotional, and informational support during pregnancy and childbirth Galloway, Ohio simpleliving http://www.geocities.com/rasavilasini/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 I have suspected they did something like that. You would be able to stomach it because you would love your baby, her breath would be sweet and you would so want her to live and breath that you wouldn't think twice about. After the long labor, a little of your own baby mucus in your mouth would be nothing compared to the joy. But I still think we could wipe the babys mouth very gently with a salt soaked, wrung out gauze or something or better yet, just head down and gentle gagging, if anything at all. A baby knows how to clear her airway with that little bit of help. Vicky - Rasa Vilasini ayurveda Monday, August 16, 2004 6:43 AM RE: [ayurveda] Re: bulb syringes question from Vicky I heard that some Native Americans used to just put their mouth over the baby’s mouth or nose and just suck, and then spit out anything that came up. This was done by the parents themselves. It seems pretty natural and non-invasive, but I don’t know it I could stomach it, I suppose if I was the parent and nothing else was available, I would not hastate to use this method. By the way sorry for all the lurking.... I will send an intro soon Your aspiring servant, Rasa Vilasini d.d. Lotus Birthing Services Professional Labor Support Rasa V. Devadiga- Birth Doula, Midwife Apprentice Providing continuous physical, emotional, and informational support during pregnancy and childbirth Galloway, Ohio simpleliving http://www.geocities.com/rasavilasini/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 I hear you, and you seem to have lengthy experience. but as you well know, most hospital births are not done with the mom squatting, of course the ideal position for natural emission of fluids, so they do what they must. sorry to not have been able to satisfy your original query. bless - Rebecca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Perhaps this can be one more reason to keep insisting on more natural births. If you can ever find a workshop near you given by Karen Strange (she has a web site, I believe), she talks about alternate ways to resuscitate babies and she has a lot to say about the issue. I'm not just making this stuff up. I hope things will change because I see babies going through so much trauma at our hands in hospitals because we don't put ourselves in baby's place. Shots, baths, electric warmers instead of mom, weighing and measuring (why do they need their chests measured?) PKU's, glucose tests, pictures, on and on. Vicky - Rebecca Vann ayurveda Monday, August 16, 2004 8:31 AM Re: [ayurveda] Re: bulb syringes question from Vicky I hear you, and you seem to have lengthy experience.but as you well know, most hospital births are notdone with the mom squatting, of course the idealposition for natural emission of fluids, so they dowhat they must. sorry to not have been able to satisfyyour original query.bless - Rebecca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Vicky, I just want to add that I agree with you about attending any workshop/class by Karen strange. I recently attended her Neonatal resuscitation class and she is great. She actually recommends midwives to take the bulb syringe out of their birth kits. She says that it gives the parents the wrong message. Karen Strange gives a unique perspective on what the baby is going through at the time of birth, especially if it is in respiratory distress. I recommend anyone on this list to check her out. Your aspiring servant, Rasa Vilasini d.d. Lotus Birthing Services Professional Labor Support Rasa V. Devadiga- Birth Doula, Midwife Apprentice Providing continuous physical, emotional, and informational support during pregnancy and childbirth Galloway, Ohio simpleliving http://www.geocities.com/rasavilasini/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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