Digest Number 620

[Guest guest]

Dear Victoria,

I am writing in response to your message on the gall bladder meridian. I'm not very knowledgeable in but have been studying it on my own through books by Henry Lu and others, also the internet. The reason is that I am trying to figure out a treatment for myself. When I read your article on the gallbladder, I thought it may be what I have. Anyway, I hope it is OK to post a question about myself. I have had chronic neck pain and headaches for 20 years. I have had numerous medical treatment and drugs from my physicians during this time. Also, I have had trouble with dizziness associated with my neck all through this time but have had constant dizziness all summer when I move my neck or walk or anything. Anyway I've recently been in again to my doctor, he says my ears are fine, it must be coming from my neck. I just had another MRI and they found nothing. Well, when this first started decades ago I remember waking up one morning with a stiff neck. Anyways, this exact spot seems to be the GB 20 spot. I remember getting a shot of cortisone in that area. It just never went away. I always have chronic muscle spasms, mainly on my back right side of neck. I've done physical therapy, chiropractic (I passed out after a treatment), exercise and massage makes it worse. I can't stand anyone to touch me there it is so painful. It goes up the back of my head on the right side above the GB 20 spot. I also have pain in every part of my head and face. According to your article, it sounds like maybe obstruction of the gallbladder????? If so, what foods/herbs could I eat or should I not eat to help correct this???? Your help would be greatly appreciated. In the book I have by Henry Lu, it seems I have liver yin/yang rising??? because of headaches, dizzy, etc? I've eaten celery, and tomatoes as liver food and that hasn't helped.

Thanks - Sharon

stockwells4

Sun, 15 Sep 2002 07:03:00 -0700 "Judy Fitzgerald" <victoria_dragonMore on Gall BladderI didn't quote the entire article. It also includes diagrams of the Gall Bladder meridian and GB acupoints.For those interested in 5 Elements, the Liver (Yin Organ) and the Gall Bladder (Yang Organ) are "coupled" Wood Organs."Known as the 'Honorable Minister', the gall bladder is in chargeof the'Central Clearing Department'. It secretes the pure and potentbile fluidsrequired to digest and metabolize fats and oils, and its energyprovidesmuscular strength and vitality. It works with the lymphaticsystem to cleartoxic by-products of metabolism from the muscular system,therebyeliminating muscular aches and fatigue. In the Chinese system,the commontension headache is caused by obstruction in the gall-bladdermeridian,which runs up over the shoulders and back of the neck to the topof the headand forehead. Hence such headaches are usually accompanied byneck andshoulder tension."The gall bladder governs daring and decisiveness. In Chinese,the word for'daring' is da dan ('big gall'). The English language alsoacknowledgesthis psychophysiological relationship with the phrase 'a lot ofgall'. Anold Chinese adage states: 'The gall bladder is daring, the heartiscareful', which reflects the stimulating generative influence ofWood toFire."Gallbladder"Paired Organ LiverColor yellow greenPeak Hours 11pm-1amMental Qualities resentmentPhysical Branches eyes, tendons, tears, nailsFunctions stores and excretes bile, one of the Six ExtraordinaryOrgans"http://www.lieske.com/channels/5e-gallbladder.htmThe peak hours for the Liver is between roughly 1 am and 3 am. If a person awakens routinely between the hours of 1 am and 3am this can indicate Liver imbalance. This isn't limited to just Liver Yin Deficiency. (One of the symptoms of Yin Deficiency is waking frequently during the night.) Yin Deficiency by itself is not "regular". The person is more likely to wake up at various times during the night from night to night (differing each night) with Yin Deficiency than for the waking time to be "regular". If the person wakes up regularly between 1 and 3 am, this can point to any of a number of Liver imbalances. If the person has trouble getting back to sleep, there may also be Gall Bladder Deficiency.Problems with the eyes and vision and/or the finger and toe nails can point to Liver and/or Gall Bladder problems. The Liver "manifests in the eyes."Actually, tension-like headaches also can be due to problems in the Bladder meridian. Either can be one-sided, unlike the usual "tension" headaches which affect both sides of the neck equally. In the case of the Bladder-connected headaches affecting the neck, what you're usually looking at is Wind Cold or Wind Heat invading the Bladder and Small Intestine meridians. The Bladder and the Small Intestine are the first affected by Exterior invasion of a Pernicious Evil (Wind, Cold, Heat, Damp).Victoria

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[Guest guest]

>Anyway, I hope it is OK to post a question about myself.

 

It's not only ok, I encourage questions. People are here to learn (self

included), and this is one way to do it. I hope the professionals and

students on the list will offer their input too. Discussing cases and a lot

of people chiming in with input and asking for clarification is the closest

thing I can think of to learning in a clinical setting. It's not the same

thing, but it can be very helpful in helping people to learn to

differenciate patterns.

 

>I have had chronic neck pain and headaches for 20 years.

 

Is the pain constant in intensity, or does it vary? Are the headaches

one-sided, worse on one side than the other, or equal on both sides? Is

there any nausea? Do changes in weather - in particular cold, heat,

dampness, and/or wind make it worse? If the headaches vary in intensity,

what things make them worse beside massage? What color is your tongue? What

are/ were your periods like? Heavy? Light? Was there any large loss of

blood prior to the problem starting? Is the problem worse in one season(s)

of the year than in others? Any dryness, constipation, or bitter taste in

the mouth? What is urination like? Scanty, dark, and infrequent, or

profuse, clear, and frequent? Is there any water retention? Or the

opposite, dehydration?

 

>I have had numerous medical treatment and drugs from my physicians during

>this time. Also, I have had trouble with dizziness associated with my neck

>all through this time but have had constant dizziness all summer when I

>move my neck or walk or anything.

 

Do you ever feel like you're going to pass out when you change positions?

Like getting up from a chair too quickly or straightening up when you've

been bending over.

 

>Anyway I've recently been in again to my doctor, he says my ears are fine,

>it must be coming from my neck. I just had another MRI and they found

>nothing. Well, when this first started decades ago I remember waking up

>one morning with a stiff neck. Anyways, this exact spot seems to be the GB

>20 spot. I remember getting a shot of cortisone in that area. It just

>never went away.

 

Sometimes when there are problems in the meridians, an acupoint or points

will be sore. In my case with my severe headaches, the acupoint Bladder 47

was sore. (My headaches were Wind Cold in the Bladder and Small Intestine

meridians against a background of Kidney Yang Deficiency.) Pay particular

attention to a meridian whenever one or more or the acupoints of that

meridian are sore, reddish in color, numb, tingly, cold, hot, etc. This can

be a clue where the problem lies.

 

Headaches that start out in the neck often are due to either problems in the

Bladder meridian or problems in the Gall Bladder meridian. Both transverse

the back of the neck. (You may want to do a search in the message base for

headaches. There was a discussion on this.)

 

>I always have chronic muscle spasms, mainly on my back right side of neck.

 

Whenever there are muscle spasms or tics, suspect Wind. Wind can invade

from the outside, or it can arise from within the body. Liver Yang Rising

can generate Internal Wind. So can Blood Deficiency. So can Extreme Heat

(like in the case of a very high fever) or in cases of Heat or Wind Heat

invading from the Exterior and penetrating to the Blood level.

 

>I've done physical therapy, chiropractic (I passed out after a treatment),

>exercise and massage makes it worse.

 

This is an important glue that exercise and touch makes the pain worse.

 

>I can't stand anyone to touch me there it is so painful. It goes up the

>back of my head on the right side above the GB 20 spot. I also have pain

>in every part of my head and face.

 

Fortunately, when using acupuncture or acupressure, acupoints can be used

which are not in the area of the pain. Sometimes the effective acupoint

won't even be on the meridian which has the problems.

 

>According to your article, it sounds like maybe obstruction of the

>gallbladder????? If so, what foods/herbs could I eat or should I not eat

>to help correct this????

 

Until you have a more certain diagnosis - which can't be done via email - no

herbs or foods can be recommended. At least not in this case. All we can do

on a list is give you ideas of things to research further until you can find

a trained TCM healer or have gathered enough information to safely make a

self-diagnosis. The latter is not recommended, but sometimes, it's the best

that a person can do. Many areas still don't have trained TCM healers to

consult.

 

>In the book I have by Henry Lu, it seems I have liver yin/yang rising???

>because of headaches, dizzy, etc?

 

Lu is good.

 

Liver Yang Rising is a joint Deficiency/ Excess pattern. What this means is

that Liver Yang Rising (the Excess part) never occurs unless Liver Yin is

Deficient. There is not enough Liver Yin to " hold down " the Liver Yang.

There also are postings in the message base on Liver Yang Rising. It's a

common imbalance.

 

Do you have access to an acupoint chart? Acupressure's Potent Points by

Michael Reed Gach has some good pictures, diagrams, and instructions. If the

local library does not have the book, try the acupressure.com website or

some of the other websites with pictures.

 

Try gently pressing or massaging the Small Intestine 3 point. It's in the

area of the knuckle beneath the small finger. Try it on the left hand as

well as the right hand. See if there is a slight lessening of the headache.

Or, if it gets worse.

 

Take the heel of your left foot and press the area on the top of the right

foot in the webbing between the bones of the big toe and the toe next to the

big toe. This is the area of Liver 3, an important point for subduing Liver

Yang. Repeat the procedure with the heel of the right foot on top of the

left foot. Does the pain decrease (any), stay the same, get worse?

 

Gall Bladder 43 also subdues Rising Liver Yang. (There should be a picture

of this point on the website that has the Gall Bladder article.) Maciocia

recommends GB43 (p. 226 of Foundations), but Gach recommends GB 41 for

headaches (p. 105 Potent Points). (Gach is general. Actually, volumes can

be written on different types of headaches and their different Roots.)

 

Try massaging the inside of the legs in the area of the knees. I hesitate

to ask you to do anything that involves bending (because of the dizziness

problems). Stop at once any massaging or pressing of any point that makes

you feel worse.

 

Hope this helps in the meanwhile.

 

Victoria

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Don't overlook the possibility that you might have a bone or bones out of place in your neck. If so, no herbs or foods will resolve the underlying problem.

If you don't mind sharing where you are located, perhaps someone can suggest a good practioner for you to see.

Jeri

 

-

Larry Stockwell

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Friday, September 20, 2002 2:19 PM

Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 620

 

Dear Victoria,

I am writing in response to your message on the gall bladder meridian. I'm not very knowledgeable in but have been studying it on my own through books by Henry Lu and others, also the internet. The reason is that I am trying to figure out a treatment for myself. When I read your article on the gallbladder, I thought it may be what I have. Anyway, I hope it is OK to post a question about myself. I have had chronic neck pain and headaches for 20 years. I have had numerous medical treatment and drugs from my physicians during this time. Also, I have had trouble with dizziness associated with my neck all through this time but have had constant dizziness all summer when I move my neck or walk or anything. Anyway I've recently been in again to my doctor, he says my ears are fine, it must be coming from my neck. I just had another MRI and they found nothing. Well, when this first started decades ago I remember waking up one morning with a stiff neck. Anyways, this exact spot seems to be the GB 20 spot. I remember getting a shot of cortisone in that area. It just never went away. I always have chronic muscle spasms, mainly on my back right side of neck. I've done physical therapy, chiropractic (I passed out after a treatment), exercise and massage makes it worse. I can't stand anyone to touch me there it is so painful. It goes up the back of my head on the right side above the GB 20 spot. I also have pain in every part of my head and face. According to your article, it sounds like maybe obstruction of the gallbladder????? If so, what foods/herbs could I eat or should I not eat to help correct this???? Your help would be greatly appreciated. In the book I have by Henry Lu, it seems I have liver yin/yang rising??? because of headaches, dizzy, etc? I've eaten celery, and tomatoes as liver food and that hasn't h! elped. & n bsp;

Thanks - Sharon

stockwells4

Sun, 15 Sep 2002 07:03:00 -0700 "Judy Fitzgerald" <victoria_dragonMore on Gall BladderI didn't quote the entire article. It also includes diagrams of the Gall Bladder meridian and GB acupoints.For those interested in 5 Elements, the Liver (Yin Organ) and the Gall Bladder (Yang Organ) are "coupled" Wood Organs."Known as the 'Honorable Minister', the gall bladder is in chargeof the'Central Clearing Department'. It secretes the pure and potentbile fluidsrequired to digest and metabolize fats and oils, and its energyprovidesmuscular strength and vitality. It works with the lymphaticsystem to cleartoxic by-products of metabolism from the muscular system,therebyeliminating muscular aches and fatigue. In the Chinese system,the commontension headache is caused by obstruction in the gall-bladdermeridian,which runs up over the shoulders and back of the neck to the topof the headand forehead. Hence such headaches are usually accompanied byneck andshoulder tension."The gall bladder governs daring and decisiveness. In Chinese,the word for'daring' is da dan ('big gall'). The English language alsoacknowledgesthis psychophysiological relationship with the phrase 'a lot ofgall'. Anold Chinese adage states: 'The gall bladder is daring, the heartiscareful', which reflects the stimulating generative influence ofWood toFire."Gallbladder"Paired Organ LiverColor yellow greenPeak Hours 11pm-1amMental Qualities resentmentPhysical Branches eyes, tendons, tears, nailsFunctions stores and excretes bile, one of the Six ExtraordinaryOrgans"http://www.lieske.com/channels/5e-gallbladder.htmThe p! eak hour s for the Liver is between roughly 1 am and 3 am. If a person awakens routinely between the hours of 1 am and 3am this can indicate Liver imbalance. This isn't limited to just Liver Yin Deficiency. (One of the symptoms of Yin Deficiency is waking frequently during the night.) Yin Deficiency by itself is not "regular". The person is more likely to wake up at various times during the night from night to night (differing each night) with Yin Deficiency than for the waking time to be "regular". If the person wakes up regularly between 1 and 3 am, this can point to any of a number of Liver imbalances. If the person has trouble getting back to sleep, there may also be Gall Bladder Deficiency.Problems with the eyes and vision and/or the finger and toe nails can point to Liver and/or Gall Bladder problems. The Liver "manifests in the eyes."Actually, tension-like headaches also can be due to problems in the Bladder meridian. Either can be one-sided, unlike the usual "tension" headaches which affect both sides of the neck equally. In the case of the Bladder-connected headaches affecting the neck, what you're usually looking at is Wind Cold or Wind Heat invading the Bladder and Small Intestine meridians. The Bladder and the Small Intestine are the first affected by Exterior invasion of a Pernicious Evil (Wind, Cold, Heat, Damp).Victoria

 

 

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>Don't overlook the possibility that you might have a bone or bones out of

>place in your neck. If so, no herbs or foods will resolve the underlying

>problem.

 

There is the problem of extreme sensitivity in the neck that has to be

resolved first. She passed out one time from a chiropractor treatment.

 

You'll run across cases like this in which the standard treatment, even a

necessary treatment, cannot be used because it makes something else worse.

For example, my mother was severely anemic, but the iron pills the doctor

gave her resulted in extreme constipation. Another example is a person may

have extreme allergies, but reacts to antihistamines. Fortunately, there are

other ways to accomplish needed things. But finding those solutions can

require a great deal of thought and creativity and consulting with other

healers. But once discovered, healers are then more proficient and have

more techniques of healing to draw upon in other cases.

 

At this point we don't know if the neck and headaches are caused by an

Exterior problem, an Interior problem, or a combination of Exterior and

Interior. For the benefit of readers new to TCM, " Pernicious Evils " (wind,

heat, dampness, dryness, and cold) in the environment can attack the

Exterior of the body (head, neck, skin, muscles, bones, meridians, legs,

and/or arms). (Think weather-sensitive in these cases.) These Exterior Evils

can and usually will invade to the Interior of the body (trunk of the body,

internal Organs). Or, Pernicious Evils can arise within the Interior as the

result of another imbalance. For example, Liver Yang Rising or Blood

Deficiency can each give rise to Interior Wind. (We know there probably is

a Wind factor since she's experiencing muscle spasms. Muscle spasms and tics

usually are a sign of Wind.)

 

Sometimes, there are both Exterior and Interior factors operating together.

For example, a person who is Qi Deficient (especially Protective Qi

Deficient) is going to be more vulnerable to Exterior Pernicious Evils than

a person who has strong Protective Qi. A person who is Yang Deficient is

going to be more vulnerable to Exterior Cold than a person who has adequate

Yang. Etc.

 

Exterior conditions generally are less serious and easier to resolve than

Interior conditions. But this does not mean that Exterior conditions cannot

be extremely painful and debilitating. (Voice of experience here.)

Arthritis and rheumatism are Exterior conditions (affecting bones and

muscles). BTW, the Chinese see arthritis and rheumatism (Painful

Obstruction Syndrome, aka Bi Syndrome) as being due to Cold, Wind, and/or

Dampness. When these Evils start to invade and become trapped, sometimes

they can turn into Heat (the arthritis characterized by red and hot joints.)

 

Chinese herbs are classified by their main function. There is a category

called Herbs that Warm the Exterior (fresh ginger, cinnamon twigs, etc.)

These herbs are very useful in cases where the person is suffering from

Exterior Cold. There is another category of herbs that get rid of Exterior

Heat (chrysanthemum flowers). The Herbs that Dispel Wind-Dampness (herbs for

Painful Obstruction Syndrome) are subdivided according to if Wind

predominates, Cold predominates, Dampness predominates, or Heat has

developed. " From the perspective of modern biomedicine, these herbs have

analgesic, anti-inflammatory, antipyretic, and circulation-promoting

properties. " (Bensky and Gamble, Materia Medica, p. 155.)

 

If all or part of the problem is Liver Yang Rising, there are herbs which

will tonify Liver Yin so it can " anchor " Liver Yang. There are acupoints

which will subdue rising Yang. Just using the points that subdue rising

Yang is not going to be enough by itself for full healing. The Liver Yin

also is going to need to be supplemented. (I personally prefer herbs for

tonifying Yin, Qi, or Blood because they actually add Yin or Qi to the body

(and in some cases things which are needed to make Blood). There are

acupoints which are tonic to Yin, Qi, or Blood, but don't actually add them.

Moxibustion in acupuncture will actually add Yang to the body.)

 

Another class of herbs is one that Regulates Qi. These are the herbs that

get Stagnant Qi moving. Some of these are skins of various citrus fruits.

Pain from Stagnant Qi is wandering pain. It doesn't stay in the same place

or at the same intensity. A sub-category of Herbs that Regulate the Blood

are Herbs that Invigorate the Blood. These are used in cases of Blood

Stasis. The pain of Blood Stasis is fixed in location and intensity. But

if the pain is due to Exterior Evils, herbs are needed that will deal with

Exterior problems. Herbs like those that Warm the Exterior, get rid of

Exterior Heat, or Dispel Wind-Damp.

 

Victoria

 

 

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[Guest guest]

-

> >Don't overlook the possibility that you might have a bone or bones out of

> >place in your neck. If so, no herbs or foods will resolve the underlying

> >problem.

>

> There is the problem of extreme sensitivity in the neck that has to be

> resolved first. She passed out one time from a chiropractor treatment.

 

Perhaps the chiropractor did not move the bone in the most appropriate

fashion. And, perhaps there was some concern about having neck bones

manipulated, (I certainly had that mind set, anyway), and, just as some

people will pass out from acupuncture due to stress, that might have played

a role in causing her to pass out.

 

The description of the problem is very similiar to what I went through, and

the underlying problem--bones out of place--had to be taken care of in order

for the problem to be resolved. No foods or herbs can move the bones back in

place. But, they can help strengthen the muscles, so that the bones will

stay in place after being put back in place, and can help bring relief from

the symptoms.

 

The bottom line, though, is that she should be evalulated in person by

someone who can make the proper diagnosis and prescribe the proper

treatment.

Jeri

[Guest guest]

An osteopath I know told me that he has had a few patients who were damaged

by chiropractors adjusting necks inappropriately. In some cases, they have

had strokes during the adjustment, but didn't know it. (Sometimes evidenced

by passing out). Anyhow, I don't mean to generalize about chiropractors, but

the description of passing out sounded familiar.

 

 

-

" kurvenal " <kurvenal

<Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Saturday, September 21, 2002 15:49

Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 620

 

 

> -

> > >Don't overlook the possibility that you might have a bone or bones out

of

> > >place in your neck. If so, no herbs or foods will resolve the

underlying

> > >problem.

> >

> > There is the problem of extreme sensitivity in the neck that has to be

> > resolved first. She passed out one time from a chiropractor treatment.

>

> Perhaps the chiropractor did not move the bone in the most appropriate

> fashion. And, perhaps there was some concern about having neck bones

> manipulated, (I certainly had that mind set, anyway), and, just as some

> people will pass out from acupuncture due to stress, that might have

played

> a role in causing her to pass out.

>

> The description of the problem is very similiar to what I went through,

and

> the underlying problem--bones out of place--had to be taken care of in

order

> for the problem to be resolved. No foods or herbs can move the bones back

in

> place. But, they can help strengthen the muscles, so that the bones will

> stay in place after being put back in place, and can help bring relief

from

> the symptoms.

>

> The bottom line, though, is that she should be evalulated in person by

> someone who can make the proper diagnosis and prescribe the proper

> treatment.

> Jeri

>

>

>

>

> Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine

> Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine

>

>

[Guest guest]

Junya Ho wrote:

>

> An osteopath I know told me that he has had a few patients who were damaged

> by chiropractors adjusting necks inappropriately. In some cases, they have

> had strokes during the adjustment, but didn't know it. (Sometimes evidenced

> by passing out). Anyhow, I don't mean to generalize about chiropractors, but

> the description of passing out sounded familiar.

 

I'm not exactly a fan of chiropractic either, but in all fairness,

acupuncture too has its share of fainting patients. We call it " needle

shock " . Biomedicine calls it the " vaso-vagal reaction " which is

essentially similar to those who " faint at the site of blood " even

though there is no blood envolved generally in acupuncture treatments.

 

For more, please see:

 

http://gancao.net/phpreactor/htdocs/forums/browse.php?fid=47 & tid=88

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

> > An osteopath I know told me that he has had a few patients who

were damaged

> > by chiropractors adjusting necks inappropriately. In some cases,

they have

> > had strokes during the adjustment, but didn't know it. (Sometimes

evidenced

> > by passing out). Anyhow, I don't mean to generalize about

chiropractors, but

> > the description of passing out sounded familiar.

 

The possibility of stroke and some other things is a possibility any

time the neck is adjusted - be it by a chiropractor or a D.O. (Doctor

of Osteopathy). It is a risk. There was an article about it some

time ago. (Sorry, don't remember the name of the article or where it

appeared.)

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

Hi Lorenzo,

 

<Why did you say that, and please present some proof!

 

I can only try to explain what I recall reading in the book and what seemed to

be the prime factor in restoring Gerson's terminally ill patients to life and

good health:

 

The point of the Gerson juicing program (a fresh 8 oz glass every hour for

13 hours every day) is to get the most nutrients possible into a very sick

system. So, only a particular kind of juicer--one that produces a virtually

pulpless juice, is used. The idea is that the juice is digested immediately (in

10-15 minutes rather than the 3-4 hours the pulp would slow the process to).

Even more important is the idea that the bulk of the enzymes in the vegatables,

instead of being used up in the work of digestion--not needed without the

pulp--would be available for detoxification and healing of the body. Further,

without the pulp, the patient would be able to take in the required 104 ounces a

day which represents a huge amount of enzymes, vitamins and minerals from a

quantity of vegetables (I've forgotten the number of pounds, but it was

mind-boggling), and that was way beyond what would be possible if eating the

vegetables or taking them in " liquified " form from something like a Vitamix.

Also, in a juice with a high degree of pulp--where the whole vegetable is

present--it is questionable whether that product should be drunk since it means

a bypass of the thorough salivation that would occur if one were chewing on the

vegetables (the saliva being needed for pre-digestion in the mouth of the

cellulose.)

 

There are a number of reasons for the amount of juice in this therapy, but chief

among them is the need to establish the correct potassium-sodium ratio

(explained beautifully in an earlier post today)since cell edema is the hallmark

of all degenerative diseases. I think what the book said was first the bloated

cell dies, then the organ, and then the person.

 

That's the best I can do from memory. If I've misunderstood or paraphased

wrongly I hope someone will correct me, but beyond my attempt to relay what

seemed logical and reasonable to me--so much so that I'm following the program

now--I can't offer " proof " or use anything but layman's language to talk about

this.

 

Claire

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lorenzo,

 

I just recalled one other objection Gerson had with liquifiers, blenders and

most juicers. His clinical experience (since substantiated by his daughter's

ongoing work after he died) was that his patients simply didn't recover using

those machine--though he didn't know why. A physicist later explained to him

the the electrical energy of those machines impaced negatively on the electrical

energy of the enzymes, killing most of them. I'm sorryI can't recall which was

positive or negative or any of the scientific terminology.

 

Claire

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/23/02 7:28:52 PM, Gettingwell writes:

 

<< Garlic

 

 

Did you know that garlic is also a useful remedy to help with food poisening

 

as it is highly antimicrobial. >>

 

Apple cider vinegar is also good for food poisoning (E. coli) and is also

considered great for colds, sinuses and awhole host of other stuff. List is

to long to mention here. Perhaps Wayne can write and post on his great web

site. I have into if he needs it.

 

Just a fanatic about acv

Jane

[Guest guest]

Your Vitamix would have to go.

Claire

 

REPLY

 

As much as I deplore the next sentance-----

 

Claire,

 

Why did you say that, and please present some proof!

 

 

 

 

---

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[Guest guest]

> " ... as some claim that the proliferation of Soy and Sugar in our

> food has resulted in strange changes to our young including early menarche

> and homosexual tendencies?

>

> Lorenzo

 

Boy, you sure opened a can of worms.

 

First off...sugar? What would sugar have to do with it? *ponders*

 

Soy - yes, there should be greater concern over the estrogenic effects over

this, plus estrogen in cows, plus estrogen in birth control pills. I've

heard

that all of that estrogen gets carried from the urine in sewers and

therefore

our drinking water. Is that true?

 

About studies on soy & sugar in homosexuality, I'm afraid that wouldn't be

very

PC these days, would it? I'm of the opinion that there really and truly are

cases of bona fide, honest-to-goodness inborn homosexuality, but that those

cases are few and far between (in other words, smaller than 10%).

 

I think it's worth a look into whether estrogen impacts male physical

development. For example, my brother had to undergo surgery when he started

developing breasts. It was weird and sad. He has no homosexual

proclivities,

though. Hmm.

 

Seems like each year I hear more and more stories about little boys born

with a

hole in their urethras, or little girls with closed up yonis. (That

happened

to me, btw - the doctor prescribed some sort of a hormonal cream to open me

up. I wonder how common that is.)

 

Mindy

 

REPLY:----------------------

 

Hi Mindy,

 

This can of worms needs to be subject to some sunshine.! PC is passe now.

 

It is most probably not possible to determine the cause of the recent

intense interest in Homosexuality unless it is supported by frustrated

parents.

 

There is the report from ?Australia that soy caused early maturation in

the Parrots they were raising when the Bird food supplier started adding Soy

to the birdfeed.

 

" There are hundreds of reports on the net that claim that early menarche in

female children is the result of too much carbo's in their diet!

 

Keep looking!

 

Lorenzo

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

--- Claire West <clairewest1 wrote:

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<html><body>

 

 

<tt>

Hi Lorenzo,<BR>

<

<BR>

& nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; The point of the Gerson juicing

program (a fresh 8 oz glass every hour for 13 hours

every day) is to get the most nutrients possible into

a very sick system. & nbsp; So, only a particular kind

of juicer--one that produces a virtually pulpless

juice, is used. & nbsp; The idea is that the juice is

digested immediately (in 10-15 minutes rather than the

3-4 hours the pulp would slow the process to). & nbsp;

Even more important is the idea that the bulk of the

enzymes in the vegatables, instead of being used up in

the work of digestion--not needed without the

pulp--would be available for detoxification and

healing of the body. & nbsp; Further, without the pulp,

the patient would be able to take in the required 104

ounces a day which represents a huge amount of

enzymes, vitamins and minerals from a quantity of

vegetables (I've forgotten the number of pounds, but

it was mind-boggling),

 

If I recall correctly the amount was 20 pounds per

day.

Thats a fair amount to get through dont you think :-)

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I think that the Gerson Clinic uses only masticating juicers as opposed to

centrifugal

-

" Claire West " <clairewest1

 

Monday, December 23, 2002 9:07 AM

Re: Digest Number 620

 

 

> Lorenzo,

>

> I just recalled one other objection Gerson had with liquifiers, blenders

and most juicers. His clinical experience (since substantiated by his

daughter's ongoing work after he died) was that his patients simply didn't

recover using those machine--though he didn't know why. A physicist later

explained to him the the electrical energy of those machines impaced

negatively on the electrical energy of the enzymes, killing most of them.

I'm sorryI can't recall which was positive or negative or any of the

scientific terminology.

>

> Claire

>

>