Guest guest Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 This is the recommendation of Paul Chamberlain, techinical manager at Solgar. Take 1,000mg vit C every hour, 2 x 25mg zinc lozengers after each meal, 300mg elderberry extract 3 times a day, 250mg echinacea extract 3 times a day, astragalus and goldenseal taken as a tea or in capsules. Hope this helps someone during these cold winter months. Merry Christmas Marianne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 Here is an addition to your fine list, Marianne. I have not used it enough o know if it actually works, or is but psychosomatic. Rinse your ears several times a day with hydrogen peroxide. I have been told that a lot of contagion enters the body thru the ear canal rather than the nose or mouth. Only works when first exposed to a cold. Once the cold is in your system, peroxide in the ear isn't gonna do much. And I'd up the vitamin C dose past a gram an hour. Depending on severity of the cold, need could go much higher. I'd take a gram every 15 minutes until I started getting loose stool, then back off some. Happy Yule! Alobar - <marianne2406 <DietaryTipsForHBP >; <FriendsForHealthNaturally >; ; <healthwithrealattitude > Monday, December 23, 2002 2:53 PM Stop a cold in its tracks > This is the recommendation of Paul Chamberlain, techinical manager at Solgar. > > Take 1,000mg vit C every hour, 2 x 25mg zinc lozengers after each meal, 300mg > elderberry extract 3 times a day, 250mg echinacea extract 3 times a day, > astragalus and goldenseal taken as a tea or in capsules. > > Hope this helps someone during these cold winter months. > > Merry Christmas > Marianne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2002 Report Share Posted December 25, 2002 marianne2406 wrote: > This is the recommendation of Paul Chamberlain, techinical manager at Solgar. > > Take 1,000mg vit C every hour, 2 x 25mg zinc lozengers after each meal, 300mg > elderberry extract 3 times a day, 250mg echinacea extract 3 times a day, > astragalus and goldenseal taken as a tea or in capsules. > > Hope this helps someone during these cold winter months. > > Merry Christmas > Marianne > For what it's worth, a few nights ago, on the evening news, it was announced that the results of prolonged tests showed that echinacea is utterly useless in the treatment of a cold. It was not indicated whether or not it was good for anything else, except to enrich the sellers. I know that megadoses of vitamin C have been recommended for many reasons. But I also know that the blood saturation of vitamin C is at 250mg. What I do not know is of what value can it be to take more than 250mgs at one time. I do not know for how long the blood remains saturated. It seems reasonable to me to take 250mgs of vitamin C at intervals of several hours. Does anyone have better information? Morton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2002 Report Share Posted December 25, 2002 - " Morton Bodanis " <mortonmb Tuesday, December 24, 2002 11:16 PM Re: Stop a cold in its tracks > For what it's worth, a few nights ago, on the evening news, it was announced that the > results of prolonged tests showed that echinacea is utterly useless in the treatment of a > cold. It was not indicated whether or not it was good for anything else, except to enrich > the sellers. > > I know that megadoses of vitamin C have been recommended for many reasons. But I also > know that the blood saturation of vitamin C is at 250mg. What I do not know is of what > value can it be to take more than 250mgs at one time. I do not know for how long the > blood remains saturated. It seems reasonable to me to take 250mgs of vitamin C at > intervals of several hours. Does anyone have better information? > > Morton I am very curious how you " know " that blood saturation of vitamin C is at 250 mg " . Your knowledge very strongly contradicts my own. Got any URLs to more info? The evening new piece sounds to me like (yet another) piece of propaganda based on bad research, badly interpreted research, and just plain lies put out by those trying get people to stop taking herbs. On the other hand, maybe they have uncovered new & useful information. No sense in buying Echinacea if it doesn't work. Be curious if you had any footnotes on that, as well. Alobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2002 Report Share Posted December 25, 2002 Alobar wrote: > - > " Morton Bodanis " <mortonmb > > Tuesday, December 24, 2002 11:16 PM > Re: Stop a cold in its tracks > > > For what it's worth, a few nights ago, on the evening news, it was > announced that the > > results of prolonged tests showed that echinacea is utterly useless > in the treatment of a > > cold. It was not indicated whether or not it was good for anything > else, except to enrich > > the sellers. > > > > I know that megadoses of vitamin C have been recommended for many > reasons. But I also > > know that the blood saturation of vitamin C is at 250mg. What I do > not know is of what > > value can it be to take more than 250mgs at one time. I do not > know for how long the > > blood remains saturated. It seems reasonable to me to take 250mgs > of vitamin C at > > intervals of several hours. Does anyone have better information? > > > > Morton > > I am very curious how you " know " that blood saturation of > vitamin C is at 250 mg " . Your knowledge very strongly contradicts > my own. Got any URLs to more info? > > The evening new piece sounds to me like (yet another) piece > of propaganda based on bad research, badly interpreted research, and > just plain lies put out by those trying get people to stop taking > herbs. On the other hand, maybe they have uncovered new & useful > information. No sense in buying Echinacea if it doesn't work. Be > curious if you had any footnotes on that, as well. > > Alobar > No, I have no footnotes. OOps! It is actually " tissue saturation " level of vitamin C. It came directly to me from Dr. Joe Schwarcz Ph.D., professor of chemistry at Mcgill University here in Montreal. He will gladly answer questions if you email him. Do you want his email address? Morton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2002 Report Share Posted December 25, 2002 - " Morton Bodanis " <mortonmb Wednesday, December 25, 2002 12:54 AM Re: Stop a cold in its tracks > > > Alobar wrote: > > > - > > " Morton Bodanis " <mortonmb > > > > Tuesday, December 24, 2002 11:16 PM > > Re: Stop a cold in its tracks > > > > > For what it's worth, a few nights ago, on the evening news, it was > > announced that the > > > results of prolonged tests showed that echinacea is utterly useless > > in the treatment of a > > > cold. It was not indicated whether or not it was good for anything > > else, except to enrich > > > the sellers. > > > > > > I know that megadoses of vitamin C have been recommended for many > > reasons. But I also > > > know that the blood saturation of vitamin C is at 250mg. What I do > > not know is of what > > > value can it be to take more than 250mgs at one time. I do not > > know for how long the > > > blood remains saturated. It seems reasonable to me to take 250mgs > > of vitamin C at > > > intervals of several hours. Does anyone have better information? > > > > > > Morton > > > > I am very curious how you " know " that blood saturation of > > vitamin C is at 250 mg " . Your knowledge very strongly contradicts > > my own. Got any URLs to more info? > > > > The evening new piece sounds to me like (yet another) piece > > of propaganda based on bad research, badly interpreted research, and > > just plain lies put out by those trying get people to stop taking > > herbs. On the other hand, maybe they have uncovered new & useful > > information. No sense in buying Echinacea if it doesn't work. Be > > curious if you had any footnotes on that, as well. > > > > Alobar > > > > No, I have no footnotes. > > OOps! It is actually " tissue saturation " level of vitamin C. It came directly to me > from Dr. Joe Schwarcz Ph.D., professor of chemistry at Mcgill University here in > Montreal. He will gladly answer questions if you email him. Do you want his email > address? > > Morton > Ah! Tissue saturation. Now we are getting someplace! I really have not much time for off-list discussions at this point in time, but if Dr. Schwarcz cares to join this list & present his understanding of vitamin C & tissue saturation, I'd be happy to read & comment. In the meantime, I looked up what I have read about tissue saturation & vitamin C. from this lists wonderful set of reference URLs at Gettingwell . After a bit of searching, I located the web page I was looking for on the Vitamin C Foundation website (which I heartily recommend, BTW). I shall post the entire webpage below because the arguments are easy to understand, and very illuminating. Let me give one brief pull-quote from the text below which summarizes my position on 250 mg tissue saturation: " Cathcart has shown that almost all humans can tolerate 4 gm vitamin C per day without diarreha. Yet individuals under stress can tolerate orders of magnitude more vitamin C, sometimes 100 gm or more per day. These high amounts are absorbed, and as one who has experienced a 150 gm/day bacterial infection, the question becomes: What is the body doing with these extraordinary high amounts of vitamin C during periods of stress? More importantly, what happens to tissues that do not have enough vitamin C stored to meet demand because intake has been limited to 200 - 500 mg per day? " Alobar http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/levine.htm Dear Vitamin C Foundation I wanted to tell you about something I read recently. I'm curious as to if you have any insight. Andrew Weil has a large audience. His August 1999 newsletter (which will be compiled for this year's booklet) says: " there's now evidence that 200 to 500 mg vit C a day is more than enough to saturate the body's tissues. " ... Weil cites an April 21st 1999 JAMA article and an Am J Clin Nutr article by the Linus Pauling Institute as the reasons he's lowering his recommendation from 2 to 6 g/d to 0.2 to 0.5 g/d. He uses Linus Pauling's name (it's HIS institute, after all) twice to bolster his point. So there we have it: the most popular vitamin proponent, the Linus Pauling Institute, JAMA, J Clin Nutr, National Institute of Health, and the National Academy of Sciences (the new RDA) all agree: less than 500 mg a day is needed for optimum health. Here are the reasons I think they are wrong.... Errors in JAMA's Newest Vitamin C Article The April 21, 1999 JAMA article on vitamin C by Mark Levine, et al attempted to show by blood and urinary data that vitamin C in doses greater than 100 to 200 mg/day have no useful benefit in humans. The article is important because it strives to guide the new RDA for vitamin C towards 100 to 200 mg/day. The article can be seen at http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v281n15/full/jsc80392.html . The inadequacy of the article can be seen by the following observations: The article cites a 1997 article to claim vitamin C in gram doses has no place in the treatment of colds while ignoring a Feb 1999 article by the SAME RESEARCHER that claimed 2 g/day reduces the duration of colds by 26%. The abstract of that reference is included below. Pauling claimed vitamin C would have its greatest effect on the common cold when a gram was taken every hour instead of just once a day. The article recommends an RDA of 100 to 200 mg/day based on arguments that are almost entirely theoretical instead of citing the many real world studies showing substantial health benefits from levels greater than 1 g/day (including numerous studies on specific diseases done in the 1940's and 1950's - see the 1971 book by Irwin Stone " The Healing Factor - Vitamin C against Disease " ). By the article's own admission, it recommends an RDA of 100 to 200 mg/day based on faulty data manipulation. The authors chose to measure steady state blood plasma concentration after ingestion instead of actual concentrations because the calculation for actual concentrations was " too complex " . From reading the text, one would think 60 umol/L in the blood is as high as can be possibly achieved (which results from ingesting 100 to 200 mg/d). However, by making an estimation of their lower graph in figure 3, the data indicates that if 1,000 mg were taken 4 times a day (the recommendation of several popular nutrition experts such as Dr. Julian Whitaker and Michael Murray), it would average out to about 180 umol/L. Surely a little more calculation (or even some estimating) would have been worth the effort to show a 3-fold increase! The authors' blood and urinary data used to support their suggested maximum recommended daily amount of 100 to 200 mg/d is claimed to be better than data previously available. The JAMA article's data and arguments are 20 years old. Linus Pauling in his 1986 book " How to Live Longer and Feel Better " used nearly the exact same blood, urine, and absorption data (pp108-112) to address the exact same misunderstandings to show that 140 mg/d should be considered an absolute minimum value instead of a maximum. Pauling believed the optimum range of vitamin C for most people would be between 3 and 20 g/d. The authors do not seemed bothered or amazed that their claims indicate humans need 10 to 100 times less vitamin C than almost every other animal on the planet (adjusted for body-weight). Gorillas get 20 to 40 times as much in their diet and the RDA-equivalent for monkeys is also about 20 to 40 times higher than the authors are recommending for humans. Why is the RDA set so low for humans and so high for monkeys? The authors do not give any physiological explanation for why they believe humans are so unique among the animal kingdom as to find relatively small doses (1 g/d) of vitamin C " toxic " . This size dose has never resulted in a human suffering an adverse health effect (other than those who are sensitive to it have temporary diarrhea). The article discusses increased iron absorption and oxalate production, but no case of a human being harmed is reported. The article's suggested " toxic " level for humans is approximately the bare minimum needed by all other animals. Other large mammals sacrifice 2% to 4% of their daily food energy to make vitamin C in concentrations 10 to 20 times higher than what the article considers " toxic " , showing that not only is it not toxic, but it's more important than having a little extra food! TITLE: Vitamin C supplementation and common cold symptoms: factors affecting the magnitude of the benefit. AUTHORS: Hemila H AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Department of Public Health, University of Helsinki, Finland. Med Hypotheses 1999 Feb;52(2):171-8 CITATION IDS: PMID: 10340298 UI: 99271657 ABSTRACT: Placebo-controlled trials have shown that vitamin C supplementation decreases the duration and severity of common cold infections. However, the magnitude of the benefit has substantially varied, hampering conclusions about the clinical significance of the vitamin. In this paper, 23 studies with regular vitamin C supplementation (> or =3D 1 g/day) were analyzed to find out factors that may explain some part of the variation in the results. It was found that on average, vitamin C produces greater benefit for children than for adults. The dose may also affect the magnitude of the benefit, there being on average greater benefit from > or =3D 2 g/day compared to 1 g/day of the vitamin. In five studies with adults administered 1 g/day of vitamin C, the median decrease in cold duration was only 6%, whereas in two studies with children administered 2 g/day the median decrease was four times higher, 26%. The trials analyzed in this work used regular vitamin C supplementation, but it is conceivable that therapeutic supplementation starting early at the onset of the cold episode could produce comparable benefits. Since few trials have examined the effects of therapeutic supplementation and their results have been variable, further therapeutic trials are required to examine the role of vitamin C in the treatment of colds. Scott Roberts heelspurs.com December 2, 1999 --- ----------- Editors Comments: Although the Vitamin C Foundation stands firmly behind the long-time recommendations of Linus Pauling, that the minimum optimum oral Vitamin C intake in humans is in the range 3-4 gm, we welcome the small step in the right direction of the Levine group at the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Their recommendation, to increase the U.S. RDA from 60 mg to 200 mg of vitamin C, is long overdue. Although even this small recommended increase will meet resistance, if it were to be adopted by the Nutrition Review Board at the National Academy of Science, the health and well being of vast numbers of people would significantly improve. As far as the specific argument of tissue saturation, we agree with Scott that there must be a flaw in the Levine argument. First, consider animal metabolisms. Almost uniformly, endogenous vitamin C production is in the multi-gram range. Most higher-order mammals, for example, produce the equivalent to 9-11 gm for humans in their livers. This extraordinarily high amount enters the blood stream in its entirety. (This is the reason Pauling himself took 18 gm -- he estimated that about half what is taken orally is lost through excretion.) Stone's argument, and it is a good one: Why do almost all animals (except a few high order primates) produce that much vitamin C if it is not necessary? Then there is the Cathart Bowel Tolerance phenomenon. Cathcart has shown that almost all humans can tolerate 4 gm vitamin C per day without diarreha. Yet individuals under stress can tolerate orders of magnitude more vitamin C, sometimes 100 gm or more per day. These high amounts are absorbed, and as one who has experienced a 150 gm/day bacterial infection, the question becomes: What is the body doing with these extraordinary high amounts of vitamin C during periods of stress? More importantly, what happens to tissues that do not have enough vitamin C stored to meet demand because intake has been limited to 200 - 500 mg per day? Orthodox medicine is making slow progress, but has yet to address these two issues. It is possible that adequate or optimum vitamin C intake is much higher that 4 gm per day, perhaps closer to Pauling's own 18 gms per day. Dr. Robert Cathcart, III, MD, reportedly consumes 60 gm vitamin C daily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 on 12/24/02 10:16 PM, Morton at Gettingwell wrote: > Re: Stop a cold in its tracks > For what it's worth, a few nights ago, on the evening news, it was announced > that the results of prolonged tests showed that echinacea is utterly useless > in the treatment of a cold. It was not indicated whether or not it was good > for anything else, except to enrich the sellers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Another example of uninformed reporting! The problem really might lie with product that does not contain what it should. It is true that some brands do not deliver. Echinacea can be immune-stimulating or immune-modulating depending on the form in which it is taken. There is a major difference between liquid extract and encapsulated dried extract in their effects on the body. What it boils down to is... dried herbal extract capsules are OK for long-term use as they do not " spike " the immune system into immediate action. This is called " immune modulating " . Conversely, liquid extract of echinacea does contain the components that " spike " the immune system to action, and this form should not be taken by those with autoimmune disorders. ECHINACEA As people with Hashi's (Hashimoto's thyroid disease) are often extremely sensitive to any ingested substance, it may be wise to avoid the liquid extract of echinacea. There is, however, a difference between liquid extract and encapsulated dried extract. Here is a reference from herbalist Terry Willard, Ph.D.: " We can differentiate between the liquid extract of Echinacea vs. the powdered extract capsule form of Echinacea. It is true that those with autoimmune problems would be wise not to use the tincture form, as it has lost the " immune modulating " branched polysaccharides, which " fall out " during the tincture process, leaving only the immune-stimulating components (inulin). This form is best used as when a cold/flu first develops, as it stimulates the immune system sharply. However, encapsulated echinacea still contains the branched polysaccharides, which are considered to be the immune-modulating factor, and this form can be used over the long term for a stronger immune system, without spiking the immune system into action. " This is a different slant on previously held ideas regarding echinacea. Dr. Willard has said that there was a HUGE misunderstanding regarding whether echinacea should be cycled or not because of an error in translation from German to English. When the German author of the paper that threw echinacea into the spotlight visited the U.S. he refuted this erroneous translation. So, for the average person, when a cold is felt as 'coming on', 'slamming' with liquid extract of echinacea is the thing to do. 'Slamming' means taking a dropperful every couple of hours for a 24-hour period. Assuming a reliable product is used. For long term build-up of the immune system, dried extract of echinacea can be taken over the long term, as it does not 'spike' the immune system into action. One resource for determining reliable brands (in the U.S.) is http://www.consumerlab.com which conducts testing. Full reports are available by subscription but the rate seems reasonable. > I know that megadoses of vitamin C have been recommended for many reasons. > But I also know that the blood saturation of vitamin C is at 250mg. What I do > not know is of what value can it be to take more than 250mgs at one time. I > do not know for how long the blood remains saturated. It seems reasonable to > me to take 250mgs of vitamin C at intervals of several hours. Does anyone > have better information? You may be interested in the following by Dr. Michael Jonas Kahn Ph.D.: QUOTE ....the thing here with C...and in regards also to the hardening of the arteries...when we take megadoses of synthetic C or Ascorbic Acid lots of this is not assimilated...and this can get trapped in its unabsorbed form in the arterial system as well as the kidneys causing this hardening, or together with other calcifications end up as kidney stones from a kidney sorely pressed to handle it all...especially with someone talking calcium supplements...but then what should one expect here with such an overload... ....Natural Vit C can be VERY beneficial in much smaller amounts, where we don't have to take so much to get the benefits as with ascorbic acid...and this is where Pauling can be improved upon... ....and taking all this ascorbic acid vit C despite what Pauling says or " said " is overload...course i don't have a noble prize so what do I know except from long, long experience... ....Pauling was on to something with Vit C....and also can be good in the short term with megadoses when needed to help fight infection... ...SHORT TERM...ACUTE CARE...but taking these megadoses for long periods of time for many is going to result in all kinds of damage... ...AND IS VERY UNNECECSSARY...and if your not getting enough from your diet then your diet is in need of improvement...hint hint... ....then add to this...about 30% probably of all people are too acidic, so added vitamin C is like adding fuel to the fire...in these people things are already moving too fast and this will just speed things up more...this is common sense now...and if your stools are already loose...then they will be looser... ...this by the way would call for a buffered vitamin C in very small amounts where Vit C was called for despite the acid condition... ....also...there has been studies showing megadoses for long periods of time can cause genetic damage...but then again what would one expect when constantly adding some very potently acidic element to ones body for a long time... ....Kahnversely people whose body chemistries are towards the too alkaline side (slow metabolism, weight problems, constipation) can be greatly benefited by C...again in appropriate amounts from a natural source... ....but to my way of thinking and experience...much, much less can be taken...Pauling did not make this distinction...and people are lead to believe that everyone can benefit from megadoses of Vit C. This is as wrong as can be. And this rule can be applied once again to all other supplements...add infinitum... -- END QUOTE SOURCE: Dr. Michael Jonas Kahn Ph.D. Nutritional Science " The pH Balance Program " -- Joan McPhee, not an M.D. mcpheej -- Please note new email address and update your address book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 - " Joan McPhee " <mcpheej Monday, December 30, 2002 12:10 PM Re: Stop a cold in its tracks > > I know that megadoses of vitamin C have been recommended for many reasons. > > But I also know that the blood saturation of vitamin C is at 250mg. What I do > > not know is of what value can it be to take more than 250mgs at one time. I > > do not know for how long the blood remains saturated. It seems reasonable to > > me to take 250mgs of vitamin C at intervals of several hours. Does anyone > > have better information? > > You may be interested in the following by Dr. Michael Jonas Kahn Ph.D.: > > QUOTE > > ...the thing here with C...and in regards also to the hardening of the > arteries...when we take megadoses of synthetic C or Ascorbic Acid lots of > this is not assimilated...and this can get trapped in its unabsorbed form in > the arterial system as well as the kidneys causing this hardening, or > together with other calcifications end up as kidney stones from a kidney > sorely pressed to handle it all...especially with someone talking calcium > supplements...but then what should one expect here with such an overload... I like Jonas. He is a smart cookie in some ways. He has a good system for measuring pH & changing it via eating certain foods. But I think he is way off base in the quote above. I am sure no doctor & cannot offer medical advice, but I honestly believe that people who follow Jonas's advise about Vitamin C are gonna reap destruction in their own lives. Jonas does not favor " synthetic " vitamin C, or many supplements at all, for that matter. I challenge the vitamin C detractors to produce any shred of evidence that renal calculi are in any way connected with ascorbic acid, calcium ascorbate or any degradation product formed by excess vitamin C. See quote below. Alobar Ever since Dr. Linus Pauling began publicizing the value of megadoses of vitamin C in the early 1970's, there has been an undertone of medical suspicion that vitamin C may cause kidney stones. Kidney stones (what doctors call " renal calculi " ) can be cured by vitamin C, says Dr. William J. McCormick, M.D., of Toronto, Canada. One among his many excellent papers appeared way back in 1946 in Medical Record, stating the following: " I have observed that a cloudy urine, heavy with phosphates and epithelium, is generally associated with a low vitamin C status, as determined by titration with dichlorophenal-indophenol (Hoffmann-LaRoche); and that as soon as corrective administration of the vitamin effects a normal ascorbic acid (vitamin C) level the crystalline and organic sediment disappears like magic from the urine. I have found that this change can usually be brought about in a matter of hours by large doses of the vitamin, 500 to 2,000 mg, oral or parenteral. " (p. 411) http://www.doctoryourself.com/vitamin_disease.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 Gettingwell , Joan McPhee <mcpheej@s...> wrote: > Echinacea can be immune-stimulating or immune-modulating depending on the form in which it is taken. There is a major difference between liquid extract and encapsulated dried extract in their effects on the body.>> Thanks for the info - I'd been told to stay away from Echinacea because of my autoimmune thyroid problem. The information you shared has given me a much better understanding of the issues. > Terry Willard, Ph.D.: > " We can differentiate between the liquid extract of Echinacea vs. the powdered extract capsule form of Echinacea. It is true that those with autoimmune problems would be wise not to use the tincture form, as it has lost the " immune modulating " branched polysaccharides, which " fall out " during the tincture process, leaving only the immune-stimulating components (inulin).>> By chance, do you know if this would be true for all extracts - that they loose their immune modulating purpose?. I use other extracts such as Golden Seal, Ginko, Cats Claw, Bilberry. Thanks, Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 Dear Joan, I personally consider this guy, his information and his $19.95 course, very spurious information and wouldn't trust anything the guy says. Anyone that needs to disarage Linus Pauling and his research and then tries to impress me with his PhD. (maybe spurious also) and then tries to immpress that he taught nutrition at a spa. This guy is laughable in my books. regards, Frank Gettingwell , Joan McPhee <mcpheej@s...> wrote: > on 12/24/02 10:16 PM, Morton at Gettingwell wrote: > > Re: Stop a cold in its tracks > > > For what it's worth, a few nights ago, on the evening news, it was announced > > that the results of prolonged tests showed that echinacea is utterly useless > > in the treatment of a cold. It was not indicated whether or not it was good > > for anything else, except to enrich the sellers. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Another example of uninformed reporting! The problem really might lie with > product that does not contain what it should. It is true that some brands > do not deliver. > > Echinacea can be immune-stimulating or immune-modulating depending on the > form in which it is taken. There is a major difference between liquid > extract and encapsulated dried extract in their effects on the body. > > What it boils down to is... dried herbal extract capsules are OK for > long-term use as they do not " spike " the immune system into immediate > action. This is called " immune modulating " . Conversely, liquid extract of > echinacea does contain the components that " spike " the immune system to > action, and this form should not be taken by those with autoimmune > disorders. > > ECHINACEA > > As people with Hashi's (Hashimoto's thyroid disease) are often extremely > sensitive to any ingested substance, it may be wise to avoid the liquid > extract of echinacea. There is, however, a difference between liquid > extract and encapsulated dried extract. Here is a reference from herbalist > Terry Willard, Ph.D.: > > " We can differentiate between the liquid extract of Echinacea vs. the > powdered extract capsule form of Echinacea. It is true that those with > autoimmune problems would be wise not to use the tincture form, as it has > lost the " immune modulating " branched polysaccharides, which " fall out " > during the tincture process, leaving only the immune-stimulating components > (inulin). This form is best used as when a cold/flu first develops, as it > stimulates the immune system sharply. > > However, encapsulated echinacea still contains the branched polysaccharides, > which are considered to be the immune-modulating factor, and this form can > be used over the long term for a stronger immune system, without spiking the > immune system into action. " > > This is a different slant on previously held ideas regarding echinacea. Dr. > Willard has said that there was a HUGE misunderstanding regarding whether > echinacea should be cycled or not because of an error in translation from > German to English. When the German author of the paper that threw echinacea > into the spotlight visited the U.S. he refuted this erroneous translation. > > So, for the average person, when a cold is felt as 'coming on', 'slamming' > with liquid extract of echinacea is the thing to do. 'Slamming' means > taking a dropperful every couple of hours for a 24-hour period. Assuming a > reliable product is used. > > For long term build-up of the immune system, dried extract of echinacea can > be taken over the long term, as it does not 'spike' the immune system into > action. > > One resource for determining reliable brands (in the U.S.) is > http://www.consumerlab.com which conducts testing. Full reports are > available by subscription but the rate seems reasonable. > > > > I know that megadoses of vitamin C have been recommended for many reasons. > > But I also know that the blood saturation of vitamin C is at 250mg. What I do > > not know is of what value can it be to take more than 250mgs at one time. I > > do not know for how long the blood remains saturated. It seems reasonable to > > me to take 250mgs of vitamin C at intervals of several hours. Does anyone > > have better information? > > You may be interested in the following by Dr. Michael Jonas Kahn Ph.D.: > > QUOTE > > ...the thing here with C...and in regards also to the hardening of the > arteries...when we take megadoses of synthetic C or Ascorbic Acid lots of > this is not assimilated...and this can get trapped in its unabsorbed form in > the arterial system as well as the kidneys causing this hardening, or > together with other calcifications end up as kidney stones from a kidney > sorely pressed to handle it all...especially with someone talking calcium > supplements...but then what should one expect here with such an overload... > > ...Natural Vit C can be VERY beneficial in much smaller amounts, where we > don't have to take so much to get the benefits as with ascorbic acid...and > this is where Pauling can be improved upon... > > ...and taking all this ascorbic acid vit C despite what Pauling says or > " said " is overload...course i don't have a noble prize so what do I know > except from long, long experience... > > ...Pauling was on to something with Vit C....and also can be good in the > short term with megadoses when needed to help fight infection... ...SHORT > TERM...ACUTE CARE...but taking these megadoses for long periods of time for > many is going to result in all kinds of damage... ...AND IS VERY > UNNECECSSARY...and if your not getting enough from your diet then your diet > is in need of improvement...hint hint... > > ...then add to this...about 30% probably of all people are too acidic, so > added vitamin C is like adding fuel to the fire...in these people things are > already moving too fast and this will just speed things up more...this is > common sense now...and if your stools are already loose...then they will be > looser... ...this by the way would call for a buffered vitamin C in very > small amounts where Vit C was called for despite the acid condition... > > ...also...there has been studies showing megadoses for long periods of time > can cause genetic damage...but then again what would one expect when > constantly adding some very potently acidic element to ones body for a long > time... > > ...Kahnversely people whose body chemistries are towards the too alkaline > side (slow metabolism, weight problems, constipation) can be greatly > benefited by C...again in appropriate amounts from a natural source... > > ...but to my way of thinking and experience...much, much less can be > taken...Pauling did not make this distinction...and people are lead to > believe that everyone can benefit from megadoses of Vit C. This is as wrong > as can be. And this rule can be applied once again to all other > supplements...add infinitum... > -- > END QUOTE > > SOURCE: Dr. Michael Jonas Kahn Ph.D. > Nutritional Science > " The pH Balance Program " > > > -- Joan McPhee, not an M.D. > mcpheej@s... -- > > Please note new email address > and update your address book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 I'm new to the list, my name is Ginger and I live in Utah. I wanted to make a comment. I started a product called OPC-3 it's an anti oxident formula made by market america. In the two years before starting OPC-3, I had colds and flu and each of the two years I had Pnuemonia. Since starting the OPC3 I can honestly say I feel better than I ever have, also I have not had a cold or flu in 15 months. I just wanted to mention it. I think it's the best stuff you can buy, JMHO Ginger ______________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 Alobar, thanks for this. I found it most interesting: on 12/30/02 8:29 PM, Alobar at Gettingwell wrote: QUOTE > Dr. William J. McCormick, M.D., of Toronto, Canada. One among > his many excellent papers appeared way back in 1946 in Medical > Record, stating the following: > > " I have observed that a cloudy urine, heavy with phosphates and > epithelium, is generally associated with a low vitamin C status, as > determined by titration with dichlorophenal-indophenol > (Hoffmann-LaRoche); and that as soon as corrective administration of > the vitamin effects a normal ascorbic acid (vitamin C) level the > crystalline and organic sediment disappears like magic from the > urine. I have found that this change can usually be brought about in > a matter of hours by large doses of the vitamin, 500 to 2,000 mg, > oral or parenteral. " (p. 411) > > http://www.doctoryourself.com/vitamin_disease.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- Joan McPhee, not an M.D. mcpheej -- Please note new email address and update your address book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 on 12/31/02 3:28 AM, Frank at gettingwell wrote: > Re: Stop a cold in its tracks > Dear Joan, > I personally consider this guy, his information and his $19.95 > course, very spurious information and wouldn't trust anything the guy > says. > Anyone that needs to disarage Linus Pauling and his research and then > tries to impress me with his PhD. (maybe spurious also) and then > tries to impress that he taught nutrition at a spa. > This guy is laughable in my books. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Which " guy " Frank? If you are referring to Dr. Kahn, I don't believe he disparages Pauling by saying: > ...Pauling was on to something with Vit C....and also can be good in the short > term with megadoses when needed to help fight infection... ...SHORT > TERM...ACUTE CARE... I agree with: > ...then add to this...about 30% probably of all people are too acidic, so > added vitamin C is like adding fuel to the fire.. And: > ...people whose body chemistries are towards the too alkaline side > (slow metabolism, weight problems, constipation) can be greatly benefited by > C...again in appropriate amounts from a natural source... Do you often feel that information that does not agree with your opinion is " spurious " ? -- Joan McPhee, not an M.D. mcpheej -- Please note new email address and update your address book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 Dear joan, Yes, when I read someone and they side with studies that are known flawed and backed by the drug establishment and downgrade the studies done by people I respect, then yes, i sometimes consider their information spurious. Because they didn't agree with me? No, more accuractly, not me, but the camp or side of the argument that I repect and more believe their arguments. It is either one or the other, they both can't be right. Don't you think that I have the right to my opinion just because it differs with yours? Or is it spurious because it differs with yours? Frank Gettingwell , Joan McPhee <mcpheej@s...> wrote: > on 12/31/02 3:28 AM, Frank at gettingwell wrote: > > Re: Stop a cold in its tracks > > Dear Joan, > > I personally consider this guy, his information and his $19.95 > > course, very spurious information and wouldn't trust anything the guy > > says. > > Anyone that needs to disarage Linus Pauling and his research and then > > tries to impress me with his PhD. (maybe spurious also) and then > > tries to impress that he taught nutrition at a spa. > > This guy is laughable in my books. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Which " guy " Frank? If you are referring to Dr. Kahn, I don't believe he > disparages Pauling by saying: > > > ...Pauling was on to something with Vit C....and also can be good in the short > > term with megadoses when needed to help fight infection... ...SHORT > > TERM...ACUTE CARE... > > I agree with: > > > ...then add to this...about 30% probably of all people are too acidic, so > > added vitamin C is like adding fuel to the fire.. > > And: > > > ...people whose body chemistries are towards the too alkaline side > > (slow metabolism, weight problems, constipation) can be greatly benefited by > > C...again in appropriate amounts from a natural source... > > > Do you often feel that information that does not agree with your opinion is > " spurious " ? > > > -- Joan McPhee, not an M.D. > mcpheej@s... -- > > Please note new email address > and update your address book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 ---What does this supplement contain? In Gettingwell , Gillian Reed <ggotts@j...> wrote: > I'm new to the list, my name is Ginger and I live in Utah. I wanted > to make a comment. I started a product called OPC-3 it's an anti > oxident formula made by market america. In the two years before > starting OPC-3, I had colds and flu and each of the two years I had > Pnuemonia. Since starting the OPC3 I can honestly say I feel > better than I ever have, also I have not had a cold or flu in 15 months. > > I just wanted to mention it. I think it's the best stuff you can > buy, JMHO > > Ginger > > ______________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 It looks like the OPC-3 product from Market America contains the following: CALORIES ---8 CARBOHYDRATES---2 g SUGAR ---2g INGREDIENTS INGREDIENTS GRAPE SEED EXTRACT -- 25 mg RED WINE EXTRACT --- 30 mg PINE BARK EXTRACT --- 25 mg BILBERRY EXTRACT -- 25 mg CITRUS EXTRACT BIO-FLAVONOIDS -- 25 mg POTASSIUM (BICARBONATE) -- 93 mg OTHER INGREDIENTS: FRUCTOSE, GLUCOSE, CITRIC ACID, MALTODEXTRIN, SILICA, CALCIUM SULFATE AND PECTIN It is marketed by a multi-level marketing company. An alternative may be found at http://www.opc-3.ws/default.asp I have no involvement with either organization. Ken - JoAnn Guest <angelprincessjo Gettingwell Tuesday, December 31, 2002 8:26 PM Re: Stop a cold in its tracks ---What does this supplement contain? In Gettingwell , Gillian Reed <ggotts@j...> wrote: > I'm new to the list, my name is Ginger and I live in Utah. I wanted > to make a comment. I started a product called OPC-3 it's an anti > oxident formula made by market america. In the two years before > starting OPC-3, I had colds and flu and each of the two years I had > Pnuemonia. Since starting the OPC3 I can honestly say I feel > better than I ever have, also I have not had a cold or flu in 15 months. > > I just wanted to mention it. I think it's the best stuff you can > buy, JMHO > > Ginger > > ______________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 This sounds like a minimum amount of proanthocyanadins{sp?} with a bunch of sugar thrown in. Better and cheaper to get some grapeseed extract phytosome from Enzymatic Therapy. An excellent product, i have taken it for years. happy new year y'all, scarlett Ken Woody [kenwoody] Tuesday, December 31, 2002 9:51 PM Gettingwell Re: Re: Stop a cold in its tracks It looks like the OPC-3 product from Market America contains the following: CALORIES ---8 CARBOHYDRATES---2 g SUGAR ---2g INGREDIENTS INGREDIENTS GRAPE SEED EXTRACT -- 25 mg RED WINE EXTRACT --- 30 mg PINE BARK EXTRACT --- 25 mg BILBERRY EXTRACT -- 25 mg CITRUS EXTRACT BIO-FLAVONOIDS -- 25 mg POTASSIUM (BICARBONATE) -- 93 mg OTHER INGREDIENTS: FRUCTOSE, GLUCOSE, CITRIC ACID, MALTODEXTRIN, SILICA, CALCIUM SULFATE AND PECTIN It is marketed by a multi-level marketing company. An alternative may be found at http://www.opc-3.ws/default.asp I have no involvement with either organization. Ken - JoAnn Guest <angelprincessjo Gettingwell Tuesday, December 31, 2002 8:26 PM Re: Stop a cold in its tracks ---What does this supplement contain? In Gettingwell , Gillian Reed <ggotts@j...> wrote: > I'm new to the list, my name is Ginger and I live in Utah. I wanted > to make a comment. I started a product called OPC-3 it's an anti > oxident formula made by market america. In the two years before > starting OPC-3, I had colds and flu and each of the two years I had > Pnuemonia. Since starting the OPC3 I can honestly say I feel > better than I ever have, also I have not had a cold or flu in 15 months. > > I just wanted to mention it. I think it's the best stuff you can > buy, JMHO > > Ginger > > ______________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 When ever I feel a cold is beginning I just put a few drops of cheap hydrogen peroxide into each ear channel (one ear at a time and let it stay in the ear for as long as you can stand the sound of the bubbles) then drain the ear. I usually do this two to three times a day whenever I feel a cold beginning. I hope this help. shirquinson Alobar <alobar wrote: - " Joan McPhee " <mcpheej Monday, December 30, 2002 12:10 PM Re: Stop a cold in its tracks > > I know that megadoses of vitamin C have been recommended for many reasons. Shirquinson Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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