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Great post, Frank. I'm glad I found this list.

 

<These symptoms can manifest themselves as diabetis,

heart trouble, cancer, blood pressure, etc.

 

This focus on the general health of the body--and its nutrient resources--as

more pertinent than individual diseases seems to becoming more popular now in

this country. I've recently seen it described as the " biological terrain. " But I

had never grasped the concept until reading Max Gerson's book which was written

back in the 30's or 40's I think. The book was titled " A Cancer Therapy, " but in

fact the therapy he devised (based primarily on organic juices) was developed

working with tuberculosis patients, and he did see the various and peculiar

manifestions of disease as relatively unimportant.

 

All of which makes so much sense to me, especially with the healing I've

experienced in the last six months or so after 18 years of Chronic Fatigue

Syndrome, and a huge amount of money down the drain for " magic bullets. "

 

I do lots of juicing these days, try to eat organic and, whenever possible,

fresh and also raw. Every morning I do my walk, stretches and Tai Chi , avoid

when possible stress (esp. general " ugliness " in the media) and I'm even trying

now to improve my vision--which from reading on that subject seems to also

affect one's general health.

 

Claire

 

 

 

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Great Message, Frank,

 

Excellent flow of thoughts and facts. I wish I could do half as good.

 

I find many people with only slight knowledge relative to vitamins and

minerals who are

looking for a " magic bullet " supplement or mineral. ( such as coral

calcium, flax oil, msm, herbs, you name it )

 

They simply do not want to make the investment required to enhance their

knowledge and/or enhance their diet.

 

I always them them, no magic bullet exists.

 

Wayne

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I've never even taken coral calcium. I thought I was helping answer the post

about the sources of it. I'm new to this list and have spent 30 years studying

laymen's nutrition for people and pets. Food is always the best answer.

However, sometimes food sources of specific nutrients are beneficial. I can

tell you that flax oil is rancid and/or goes rancid in the body because of its

multiple bonds. I've been doing a lot of research on coconut oil. But I'm not

sure if I'm allowed to discuss it.

Nancy

 

Wayne Fugitt <wayne wrote:Great Message, Frank,

 

Excellent flow of thoughts and facts. I wish I could do half as good.

 

I find many people with only slight knowledge relative to vitamins and

minerals who are

looking for a " magic bullet " supplement or mineral. ( such as coral

calcium, flax oil, msm, herbs, you name it )

 

They simply do not want to make the investment required to enhance their

knowledge and/or enhance their diet.

 

I always them them, no magic bullet exists.

 

Wayne

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Dear Nancy,

 

As I said in my prior post almost all views are welcome here if done

in a manner that will be of benefit or interest to the group.

 

Caveat::: We do limit some postings of allopathic remedies as that is

covered in mountains of information, which is over produced enough in

our societies and is screamed to us from every direction already.

 

I'm sorry that a lot of my previous post was attached to a post in

which you had written. I should have posted in a seperate post

altogether, especially as most of my post had nothing whatsoever to

do with the other posts.

 

If you have good solid information here it will be welcome. If not

you will probably hear about it from some, and that is, for the main,

how it should be..

 

respectfully,

 

Frank

 

 

 

Gettingwell , Rain Water <seveneasypeaces>

wrote:

>

> I've never even taken coral calcium. I thought I was helping

answer the post about the sources of it. I'm new to this list and

have spent 30 years studying laymen's nutrition for people and pets.

Food is always the best answer. However, sometimes food sources of

specific nutrients are beneficial. I can tell you that flax oil is

rancid and/or goes rancid in the body because of its multiple bonds.

I've been doing a lot of research on coconut oil. But I'm not sure

if I'm allowed to discuss it.

> Nancy

>

> Wayne Fugitt <wayne@f...> wrote:Great Message, Frank,

>

> Excellent flow of thoughts and facts. I wish I could do half as

good.

>

> I find many people with only slight knowledge relative to vitamins

and

> minerals who are

> looking for a " magic bullet " supplement or mineral. ( such as coral

> calcium, flax oil, msm, herbs, you name it )

>

> They simply do not want to make the investment required to enhance

their

> knowledge and/or enhance their diet.

>

> I always them them, no magic bullet exists.

>

> Wayne

 

>

> Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

>

>

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RainWater,

" I can tell you that flax oil is rancid and/or goes rancid in the body because

of its multiple bonds. "

 

This is interesting to me as I never did well on it and even have an aversion to

fresh ground flax I use occasionally.

 

I just got some hemp oil and have not opened it yet -- do you know anything

about it?

 

Marilee Ü

 

 

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Thank you Frank. I absolutely agree about the allopathic info, after all this

list is about getting well! I made a post and every response to it appeared to

be a lecture, some informative like yours and others just plain ornery. Began

to think I had stumbled onto the wrong list.

There are startling relevations about how the food oil industry has given

coconut oil terrible press. The reason: because it is imported and they want

us eating home grown oils. Heart used to be the No.100 killer but now it is No.

1. The main difference has been the unsaturated fats and transfatty acids we

get now that our ancestors did not get. Every " food " in cellophane will contain

these " fats. "

The lauric acid in coconut fat (oil) is also found in mother's milk. Even

though we have been scared away from coconut oil it has been being added to baby

formulas and formulas for hospital feeding of the very sick. It is time for

the truth to get freed.

A diet with a variety of food fats is critical. As a start here are some

sources of the suppressed research:

http://www.mercola.com/2001/mar/24/coconut_oil.htm

 

http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/28/coconut_health.htm

 

http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/28/coconut_oil.htm

 

http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/28/coconut_health2.htm

 

http://www.westonaprice.org

 

http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/know_your_fats.html

 

http://www.omeganutrition.com/articles-featured-resurgence.php

 

http://www.lauric.org

 

http://www.apcc.org.sg/

 

 

" califpacific <califpacific " <califpacific wrote: Dear

Nancy,

 

As I said in my prior post almost all views are welcome here if done

in a manner that will be of benefit or interest to the group.

 

Caveat::: We do limit some postings of allopathic remedies as that is

covered in mountains of information, which is over produced enough in

our societies and is screamed to us from every direction already.

 

I'm sorry that a lot of my previous post was attached to a post in

which you had written. I should have posted in a seperate post

altogether, especially as most of my post had nothing whatsoever to

do with the other posts.

 

If you have good solid information here it will be welcome. If not

you will probably hear about it from some, and that is, for the main,

how it should be..

 

respectfully,

 

Frank

 

 

 

Gettingwell , Rain Water <seveneasypeaces>

wrote:

>

> I've never even taken coral calcium. I thought I was helping

answer the post about the sources of it. I'm new to this list and

have spent 30 years studying laymen's nutrition for people and pets.

Food is always the best answer. However, sometimes food sources of

specific nutrients are beneficial. I can tell you that flax oil is

rancid and/or goes rancid in the body because of its multiple bonds.

I've been doing a lot of research on coconut oil. But I'm not sure

if I'm allowed to discuss it.

> Nancy

>

> Wayne Fugitt <wayne@f...> wrote:Great Message, Frank,

>

> Excellent flow of thoughts and facts. I wish I could do half as

good.

>

> I find many people with only slight knowledge relative to vitamins

and

> minerals who are

> looking for a " magic bullet " supplement or mineral. ( such as coral

> calcium, flax oil, msm, herbs, you name it )

>

> They simply do not want to make the investment required to enhance

their

> knowledge and/or enhance their diet.

>

> I always them them, no magic bullet exists.

>

> Wayne

>

 

 

 

 

 

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Dear Nancy,

 

This is not what your previous statements were on.

 

Rain Water <seveneasypeaces> wrote:

" I can tell you that flax oil is rancid and/or goes rancid in the

body because of its multiple bonds. "

 

 

If you are going to make inflamatory statements like this, I for one

would surely like to see what you are basing them on. Before you

expect me to discuss coconut oil or anything else, I expect the

subject to quit jumping from one subject to another with exclamations

and no indepth discussion.

 

So what are you basing the statement above on?

 

regards,

 

Frank

 

 

Gettingwell , Rain Water <seveneasypeaces>

wrote:

> Thank you Frank. I absolutely agree about the allopathic info,

after all this list is about getting well! I made a post and every

response to it appeared to be a lecture, some informative like yours

and others just plain ornery. Began to think I had stumbled onto the

wrong list.

> There are startling relevations about how the food oil industry has

given coconut oil terrible press. The reason: because it is

imported and they want us eating home grown oils. Heart used to be

the No.100 killer but now it is No. 1. The main difference has been

the unsaturated fats and transfatty acids we get now that our

ancestors did not get. Every " food " in cellophane will contain

these " fats. "

> The lauric acid in coconut fat (oil) is also found in mother's

milk. Even though we have been scared away from coconut oil it has

been being added to baby formulas and formulas for hospital feeding

of the very sick. It is time for the truth to get freed.

> A diet with a variety of food fats is critical. As a start here

are some sources of the suppressed research:

> http://www.mercola.com/2001/mar/24/coconut_oil.htm

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/28/coconut_health.htm

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/28/coconut_oil.htm

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/28/coconut_health2.htm

>

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/know_your_fats.html

>

> http://www.omeganutrition.com/articles-featured-resurgence.php

>

> http://www.lauric.org

>

> http://www.apcc.org.sg/

>

>

> " califpacific <califpacific> " <califpacific> wrote: Dear

Nancy,

>

> As I said in my prior post almost all views are welcome here if

done

> in a manner that will be of benefit or interest to the group.

>

> Caveat::: We do limit some postings of allopathic remedies as that

is

> covered in mountains of information, which is over produced enough

in

> our societies and is screamed to us from every direction already.

>

> I'm sorry that a lot of my previous post was attached to a post in

> which you had written. I should have posted in a seperate post

> altogether, especially as most of my post had nothing whatsoever to

> do with the other posts.

>

> If you have good solid information here it will be welcome. If not

> you will probably hear about it from some, and that is, for the

main,

> how it should be..

>

> respectfully,

>

> Frank

>

>

>

> Gettingwell , Rain Water

<seveneasypeaces>

> wrote:

> >

> > I've never even taken coral calcium. I thought I was helping

> answer the post about the sources of it. I'm new to this list and

> have spent 30 years studying laymen's nutrition for people and

pets.

> Food is always the best answer. However, sometimes food sources of

> specific nutrients are beneficial. I can tell you that flax oil is

> rancid and/or goes rancid in the body because of its multiple

bonds.

> I've been doing a lot of research on coconut oil. But I'm not sure

> if I'm allowed to discuss it.

> > Nancy

> >

> > Wayne Fugitt <wayne@f...> wrote:Great Message, Frank,

> >

> > Excellent flow of thoughts and facts. I wish I could do half as

> good.

> >

> > I find many people with only slight knowledge relative to

vitamins

> and

> > minerals who are

> > looking for a " magic bullet " supplement or mineral. ( such as

coral

> > calcium, flax oil, msm, herbs, you name it )

> >

> > They simply do not want to make the investment required to

enhance

> their

> > knowledge and/or enhance their diet.

> >

> > I always them them, no magic bullet exists.

> >

> > Wayne

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

>

>

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A problem with any oil (except coconut) is once it is made it is degrading. I

never did well on Flax oil either but have chewed on the fresh seeds and liked

it. Using the plant saturated fats in coconut oil apparently can help protect

the body from a certain amount of unsaturated fats like Flax. Butter is

saturated and a food. The old doctors used to carry raw butter with them when

they visited the sick. Sometimes just a big bite of raw butter was the medicine

a sick person needed. In those days people only had what they grew or

cultivated. They didn't have the variety of foods we have so if the family had

no dairy or had a rough winter without good fats then the raw butter medicine

could have been what was missing.

The Hunzas live to well over 100 and live well and they drink a raw butter/salt

drink for health.

Coconuts withstand high heat and that includes cooking too. Normal cooking (not

burning) does not degrade the oil so it is an ideal cooking oil. Asians use it

all the time. You can leave it out on counter and it will stay good for as long

as olive oil will (another good food oil). My suggestion is enjoy a spoon of

coconut oil a day as a supplement and use it for cooking. Put it on your skin

too. Anything you put on your skin you are drinking in, and coconut oil is an

ideal nutrient.

I don't know anything about hemp oil specifically but would avoid it just

because it is a premade probably degrading oil.

Good oils will change with temperature. Coconut oil will go liquid at 76

degrees, butter will get soft. Crisco stays the same, vegetable oils stay the

same, margarine stays the same with those same temperature changes. Olive oil

will get cloudy in the refrigerator. Those are signs of good oils, they change

under normal circumstances.

Hope this helps, nancy

 

Marilee Stauffer <marilee wrote:RainWater,

" I can tell you that flax oil is rancid and/or goes rancid in the body because

of its multiple bonds. "

 

This is interesting to me as I never did well on it and even have an aversion to

fresh ground flax I use occasionally.

 

I just got some hemp oil and have not opened it yet -- do you know anything

about it?

 

Marilee Ü

 

 

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Dear Nancy,

 

I must say again that if you make inflamatory statements like this I

expect you to back them up with more than just ramblings.

 

Each post comes with so much misinformation in it and is so

fragmented and chaotic that it is impossible to follow or try to

discuss in any manner whatsoever.

 

I think that flax oil is very beneficial to most people. From your

postings so far, I have to conclude that you don't know very much

about flax oil or any other oil for that matter.

 

As for coconut oil it has some usefullness in our diet, but there is

so much Bull flying around the net on it, witha lot of

missinformation designed from a commercial slant that it makes me

want to throw up.

 

Let's cut to the chase. OK?

 

Name me the parts of oils of flax and coconut respectively that

cannot be produced in the body?

 

Name me the percentage content and description of all

the " esssential " oils found in coconut oil, since that is obviously

what you came to the group to spam us about?

 

Pleae do the same with flax oil and all of the other oils that you

cite.

 

With essential meaning the standard usage as necessary for life and

unable to be produced in the body from other nutrients.

 

kind regards,

 

Frank

 

 

Rain Water <seveneasypeaces> wrote:

" I can tell you that flax oil is rancid and/or goes rancid in the

body because of its multiple bonds. "

 

 

 

 

Gettingwell , Rain Water <seveneasypeaces>

wrote:

>

> A problem with any oil (except coconut) is once it is made it is

degrading. I never did well on Flax oil either but have chewed on

the fresh seeds and liked it. Using the plant saturated fats in

coconut oil apparently can help protect the body from a certain

amount of unsaturated fats like Flax. Butter is saturated and a

food. The old doctors used to carry raw butter with them when they

visited the sick. Sometimes just a big bite of raw butter was the

medicine a sick person needed. In those days people only had what

they grew or cultivated. They didn't have the variety of foods we

have so if the family had no dairy or had a rough winter without good

fats then the raw butter medicine could have been what was missing.

> The Hunzas live to well over 100 and live well and they drink a raw

butter/salt drink for health.

> Coconuts withstand high heat and that includes cooking too. Normal

cooking (not burning) does not degrade the oil so it is an ideal

cooking oil. Asians use it all the time. You can leave it out on

counter and it will stay good for as long as olive oil will (another

good food oil). My suggestion is enjoy a spoon of coconut oil a day

as a supplement and use it for cooking. Put it on your skin too.

Anything you put on your skin you are drinking in, and coconut oil is

an ideal nutrient.

> I don't know anything about hemp oil specifically but would avoid

it just because it is a premade probably degrading oil.

> Good oils will change with temperature. Coconut oil will go liquid

at 76 degrees, butter will get soft. Crisco stays the same,

vegetable oils stay the same, margarine stays the same with those

same temperature changes. Olive oil will get cloudy in the

refrigerator. Those are signs of good oils, they change under normal

circumstances.

> Hope this helps, nancy

>

> Marilee Stauffer <marilee@c...> wrote:RainWater,

> " I can tell you that flax oil is rancid and/or goes rancid in the

body because of its multiple bonds. "

>

> This is interesting to me as I never did well on it and even have

an aversion to fresh ground flax I use occasionally.

>

> I just got some hemp oil and have not opened it yet -- do you know

anything about it?

>

> Marilee Ü

>

>

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I have not come here to spam about anything. But it is clear that I am on the

wrong list. So pardon me please.

 

" califpacific <califpacific " <califpacific wrote:Dear

Nancy,

 

I must say again that if you make inflamatory statements like this I

expect you to back them up with more than just ramblings.

 

Each post comes with so much misinformation in it and is so

fragmented and chaotic that it is impossible to follow or try to

discuss in any manner whatsoever.

 

I think that flax oil is very beneficial to most people. From your

postings so far, I have to conclude that you don't know very much

about flax oil or any other oil for that matter.

 

As for coconut oil it has some usefullness in our diet, but there is

so much Bull flying around the net on it, witha lot of

missinformation designed from a commercial slant that it makes me

want to throw up.

 

Let's cut to the chase. OK?

 

Name me the parts of oils of flax and coconut respectively that

cannot be produced in the body?

 

Name me the percentage content and description of all

the " esssential " oils found in coconut oil, since that is obviously

what you came to the group to spam us about?

 

Pleae do the same with flax oil and all of the other oils that you

cite.

 

With essential meaning the standard usage as necessary for life and

unable to be produced in the body from other nutrients.

 

kind regards,

 

Frank

 

 

Rain Water <seveneasypeaces> wrote:

" I can tell you that flax oil is rancid and/or goes rancid in the

body because of its multiple bonds. "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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In a message dated 12/14/2002 11:30:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

seveneasypeaces writes:

 

> I've never even taken coral calcium. I thought I was helping answer the

> post about the sources of it. I'm new to this list and have spent 30 years

> studying laymen's nutrition for people and pets. Food is always the best

> answer. However, sometimes food sources of specific nutrients are

> beneficial. I can tell you that flax oil is rancid and/or goes rancid in

> the body because of its multiple bonds. I've been doing a lot of research

> on coconut oil. But I'm not sure if I'm allowed to discuss it.

> Nancy

 

Nancy, I too found your comment regarding flaxseed oil to be of interest. As

many of us have, I have read a lot about the value of flax oil, so it is with

trepidation that I report anything negative about it.

 

For the past 6 years, I have been very interested in and involved in

nutritional treatments for those who have Down syndrome, specifically the use

of targeted nutritional intervention (TNI) for those with DS. About 5 years

ago, it was recommended that, as part of a TNI protocol, flax oil be taken as

a source of EFA's. However, as (usually) mothers reported more and more

often that the flax oil seemed to become rancid in a very short period of

time (short meaning within a week of opening the bottle), the recommendation

was changed from using flax oil (and that part of the protocol continues to

be changed, but that is a totally different topic!).

 

Now, this is the part that I hesitate to report, mostly because people want

to believe what they want to believe and also because the following is not in

any way a bonifide scientific experiment. So take it as you will.

 

One of the scientific team who has worked on the TNI protocol from the

beginning is David H. Swenson, Ph.D., H.H. Dow Professor of Chemistry

(Saginaw MI). When parents from all different regions of the country (US)

began reporting problems with the flax oil, Dr. Swenson and one (or more?) of

his graduate students did their own look-see at flax oil and how quickly it

would become rancid. He purchased flax oil from various sources. It has

been quite a number of years since this was done, but I have it in my head

that he got somewhere between 12 and 15 bottles. And yes, dates on the

bottles were always checked, indicating that the flax oil " should " have been

good. Sometimes the flax oil (sealed of course) would be in the store

refrigerated and sometimes not. He tested the oil upon opening it and then

at various intervals after that, keeping it refrigerated and then also in the

freezer. The news was not good.

 

In some cases, the flax oil was already rancid when opened, even though the

product expiration date was not near. In all other cases, the flax oil

stayed useable for a very short period of time, not going beyond a few days.

Freezing it made no difference.

 

This was one scientist's findings in, what was then, an impromptu search for

finding answers to a specific issue (finding a good source of EFA's for kids

with DS). But, the man has a Ph.D. in chemistry and he knows how to test the

oil, so..... And, he had no ax to grind one way or another on the use of

flax oil.

 

As I said earlier, take this as you will. It is not meant as being

inflammatory in the least and I am not trying to ignite a debate on the

usefulness of flax oil - not to be confused with flaxSEED which, as far as I

know, there is NO problem with rapid rancidity.

 

respectfully,

Gini

 

 

 

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Dear Group,

 

I am fairly certain that this was not " Nancy " but someone from that

group/website masquerading as such to come here and spam the group

with pitches disguised as member comments. I have seen it before in

this and other groups.

 

Frank

 

 

Gettingwell , Rain Water <seveneasypeaces>

wrote:

>

> I have not come here to spam about anything. But it is clear that

I am on the wrong list. So pardon me please.

>

> " califpacific <califpacific> " <califpacific> wrote:Dear

Nancy,

>

> I must say again that if you make inflamatory statements like this

I

> expect you to back them up with more than just ramblings.

>

> Each post comes with so much misinformation in it and is so

> fragmented and chaotic that it is impossible to follow or try to

> discuss in any manner whatsoever.

>

> I think that flax oil is very beneficial to most people. From your

> postings so far, I have to conclude that you don't know very much

> about flax oil or any other oil for that matter.

>

> As for coconut oil it has some usefullness in our diet, but there

is

> so much Bull flying around the net on it, witha lot of

> missinformation designed from a commercial slant that it makes me

> want to throw up.

>

> Let's cut to the chase. OK?

>

> Name me the parts of oils of flax and coconut respectively that

> cannot be produced in the body?

>

> Name me the percentage content and description of all

> the " esssential " oils found in coconut oil, since that is obviously

> what you came to the group to spam us about?

>

> Pleae do the same with flax oil and all of the other oils that you

> cite.

>

> With essential meaning the standard usage as necessary for life and

> unable to be produced in the body from other nutrients.

>

> kind regards,

>

> Frank

>

>

> Rain Water <seveneasypeaces> wrote:

> " I can tell you that flax oil is rancid and/or goes rancid in the

> body because of its multiple bonds. "

 

>

> Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

>

>

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4. Lack of exercise and rest.

5. Deficiency of a peaceful consciousness.

Jerry

 

The Holistic Dental Digest jmittelman with your PO Box or street

address.

-

califpacific <califpacific

Gettingwell

Saturday, December 14, 2002 9:47 PM

Re: Natural health, posting, etc.was CORAL REEF CALCIUM

 

 

Dear Group,

 

The great majority of illness is because of 3 reasons.

1. A defiency of some water, food (nutrient), sleep, air, etc.

2. A toxic substance poisoning the body from outside or inside.

3. A biological invader like viruses, bacteria, yeasts etc which can

in some cases cause #2 above.

 

Like all good wars the system is composed of things that defend

against an enemy and those that attack the enemy.

 

The body has many defenses to comabt or attack #2 or #3 above but can

be overwhelmed if the amount is to great for the body to handle or

not enough of #1 is present to disarm and neutrilize or attack the

enemy as #2 and #3 above.

 

This message is not to be all encompassing or comprehensive but is

aimed at trying to explain to people unfamiliar with natural healing

and is a generality and a very simplistic version so please bear with

me and not try and nit pick it to death.

 

Allopathic medicine is almost all attack and no defense and based on

the one drug one symptom rule. This is usually the magic bullet

theory or something like it, but with the the caveat " this is no

magic bullet " thrown in. These are designed to relieve (or attack)the

symptom so it almost seems like magic. Take one, and shazam see the

difference in the symptom.

 

If a person has a symptom (high blood pressure etc), then

that " symptom " is treated with a medicine NO MATTER WHAT THE CAUSE

that brought about the rise in blood pressure. This is a very

simplistic mechanical model of the body.

 

Almost all of the medicines involved are man made laboratory

chemicals which have never been known in nature and are usually quite

toxic in themselves because the body has much trouble breaking them

down and disposing of them. They usually also deplete the body of the

available nutrients and also block many of the bodies normal sytems

biochemicals, etc further imbalancing the system. I do not consider

them very good candidates for use on chronic diseases.

 

Allopathic medicine was used to treat most symptoms even the bodies

normal, natural, immune responses to illness. For many years up

untill the near present allopathic doctors gave medicine to even stop

fevers, diahrea, vomiting, etc. which was the bodies natural way of

making itself well.

 

Sometimes it is desirable to use allopathic means, such as anti-

biotics ( originally developed from a natural substance ...ie. molds)

to stop and kill invading bacteria, etc., but that will have to wait

for another subject due to space and time considerations.

 

Herbs are hard to define. Some are medicine and some are food and

some are both.

 

They are much preferable in most cases to allopathic drugs because

most are somewhat similiar biochemically to what our bodies were

designed to absorb, use, and detoxify from our natural enviournment.

A lot of these were probably included in our ancesters cave man style

diet. (Although as everyone knows, some plants and animals can be

horribly toxic [poisonous]too}. This too will have to wait till

another time. A lot of herbalogy has evolved into the more attack

mode vs defense as most defense items became food to be eaten

occaisonally in our ancestral diets.

 

There are other modalities of healing like acupuncture, the

electrical sytem within the body, the internal communication sytem

within the body, etc. These too will have to wait till later.

 

I would like to clarify some points about nutritional healing.

 

The body needs 50+ nutrients daily to live and be healthy.

 

They are classified as " essential " nutrients because they are

essential for life. We need other nutrients, but most can be made in

the body if enough essential nutrients and fuel are taken in to

provide the raw material to make them.

 

They are composed of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, fatty acids, etc

 

A deficiency of one or more of the essential nutrients will cause the

body to not be able to make the necessary biochemicals for health.

 

The result will be illness or eventually death. The organs will not

have enough of all of the thousands of different biochemical

substances to function properly. As a result, the illnesses can be

manifested in many many ways, depending on which organs are affected.

It all works like a seperate enviourmental ecosystem with one

depending on many and vice versa. If any one part is affected it will

effect other parts also. It can start out small and continue in a

domino effect. These symptoms can manifest themselves as diabetis,

heart trouble, cancer, blood pressure, etc.

 

When trying to understand the concept, don't think of the body as a

machine (allopathic medicine) but something growing and natural with

an ecosystem like a lake, river,ocean, rainforest etc. Some system

that is a living ecosytem with all of the parts working together to

have a healthy living thing. If one of the parts becomes ill, the

imbalace of the ecosytem is broken and the other parts suffer and die

too. They all rely on all of the other parts for the life cycles to

be sustained. The body is a very complex ecosystem in itself.

 

Our nutrients to run this ecosytem are dependent on what our body

takes in,... air, water, diet, supplements etc.

 

The liver manufactures thousands of biochemicals on a continous basis

for many body functions. Many other organs make biochemicals that

control many body functions. It is a very complex and precisely

balanced ecosystem.

 

It is not necessary to understand the functions and processes. The

ecosytem of our bodies does it automatically minute by minute and

second by second. It is much more complex than any machine devised by

man's mind.

 

It is not necessry to know how it works, but I suggest that you

surely better know what needs to go into it, so that it is allowed to

work properly and can work on correcting it's defects by using it's

own processes.

 

When we become ill and we try and regain our health, our simple

thinking tries to find a solution that we can understand. Also we are

products of our society in which almost all treatment of illness has

been the one illness, one medicine type process and thinking.

 

Economic considerations also come into play to skew our available

information. Most of our information that we take in is gleaned from

our surroundings in our daily life. When we are bombarded by

commercial interest information, whether it be from allopathic

sources (take this pill and live life, like the picture on TV), web

sites proclaiming to have a " magic bullet " (mine is the only one that

works) natural remedy, some planted " news " item that masquerades as

impartial news or some junk science to promote an economic interest.

All are usually b*ll s**t.

 

They aren't talking about your health, they are really talking about

their ecconomic health. This is area that you must learn about and be

able to seperate the wheat from the chaff or you will be chasing

rainbows forever as their will always be somone saying " I have a

better one " and once in a while it is true, but not usually.

 

So, learn about vitamins, aminos, oils, minerals, etc, to be able to

know somewhat what we are deficient in to regain health. If the

deficiency is long standing it make take a long time to correct it.

 

Learn what you as an individual needs to maintain health, as we are

all different, in what we need, in what amounts, etc. What my body

needs on a regular basis, is probably not what your biochemistry

needs to maintain health.

 

There is a huge difference in what nutrients are needed to barely

sustain life and what is needed to have good health in a normal

healthy body and another great difference in using nutrients in

theraputic qwuantities to cure the problem.

 

Learn about herbs to help the body fight against disease and be

supportive to ameliorating syptoms.

 

Learn about other natural methods like acupuncture etc.

 

You herb people learn about vitamins and vice versa. This group is so

that we all can broaden our scope. To a hammer everything looks like

a nail.

 

Learn about all of the modes of natural healing that you can and even

what allopathic medicine can offer in emergencies etc., but do the

basics above first. You must have a sound basis of nutrients before

any healing can take place.

 

But most of all change your thinking from the magic bullet thinking

to one of the ecosystem and have a very healthy scepticism towards

most health information because it is mainly driven by economic

interests first.

 

This list was not designed to give anyone an education in nutrition

or natural healing. It isn't possible and it isn't my responsibility.

It is your body and your resposibility. You are the one who has to

learn for you to get the benefits. This list is here to discuss the

elements of natural healing and their relative benefits and

shortcomings.

 

I have heard from people, who had the audacity to demand or order

what type of information they wanted here. If you want that

information here. I suggest you get off your duff, research it and

post it here. But you better research it till you know a little of

what you are really talking about.

 

Or the person can go someplace and be willing to pay for their

demands. There are naturopaths, othomolecular, herbalists,

acupunturists, etc, who are good health care sources of information

and treatments. In the main we are not health care providers and

cannot diagnose and treat illness. How effective would it be anyway?

 

The " Hey, put your affected body part up to the computer

scanner/monitor and let me diagnose you " with my very limited skills

and information doesn't seem like the best approach to me.

 

That is not to say that we don't have some very, very knowledgeable

people here who give a lot of help to others by sharing thier

knowledge. But they didn't get the bulk of their knowledge by basing

it solely on commercial information from ads in whatever form. There

are some here who I would trust for information very much and have

done so, in my personal journey to regain my health.

 

The price here is free, but it is given by asking, not by demand and

it is limited in what can take place in a group discussion situation.

If you are going to have health for most of your life, you will have

to learn to the point of being able to really decide for yourself

your health and disease issues and treatments and their relative

merits and drawbacks. Or at least have enough knowledge that you can

discern the value of the information that you get from other sources,

paid for or not.

 

Even here on this list, a lot of what passes for health information

is information derived from economic interest mainly sources and

usually biased as such. If you cut and paste from a commercial source

you should be knowledgeable enough about your subject to either

discuss it's merits also or be able to pick and choose from it's more

unbiased elements.

 

That is not to say that most posts here are thinly veiled spam to

personally promote their product, No, I'm saying that most people are

bombarded by information, designed to instill a bias in the reader or

listener, to affect the person's beliefs to the point, to purchase

that specific product. And we are only human aren't we? We are all

affected somewhat, no matter what.

 

The only way to counteract this, is to take in lots of hopefully

unbiased information also to give the person some balance.

 

For all of the people who want to learn from mainly unbiased sources,

start with our links page and work your way through those sites. For

a lot of people, this is not the solution that appeals to them. They

want a false, fantastical, " magic bullet " instead for every problem

or symptom.

 

This is not per se a moderated group. But is semi moderated,

somewhat. If it wasn't, we would be up to our eyeballs in spam. It is

a somewhat hit or miss system as time allows.

 

Also if you post something which is personal and not of interest to

the group, there is a good chance that it will not show up here. Use

an email to thank them. OK?

 

I disagree with a lot of what gets posted here, but I believe that

they have the right to post in most instances if they can discuss it

in a somewhat intelligent manner or it may have some interest in the

group. A one sentence reply " I use xyz " or somesuch is not

considered a somewhat intelligent post or of great interest to the

group.

 

Your free speech rights here are balanced by the group's needs. I

believe in free speach a lot, but that also might mean that you have

the freedom to go start your own group and say whatever it is that

you feel that you need to say.

 

just my 2 cents,

 

Frank

 

PS. I know that this posting is full of misspellings, punctuation

errors, syntax etc. I don't care, and if it cares to much to you, you

are missing the point anyway.

 

 

 

Gettingwell , Rain Water <seveneasypeaces>

wrote:

>

> http://www.herbalab.com/coralwhich.htm

> I've been doing some research recently and found this. And a

friend said this about this product: If you know of anyone with

heartburn or acid reflux, you can advise with complete confidence

even in the most severe case that it will disappear and stay gone

with one cap per day. I do not have it nor do I even know what it is

like but have given a capsule on many occasions to people who do and

IS a magic bullet. Also if you ever come across an animal that is

lame like arthritis from age, if you test the saliva of that animal

and it is acidic, by giving coral calcium that animal (dogs in my

case) will rebound and once again become active. Stop the coral

calcium and he will quickly return to his original painful state.

Have been experimenting with this for some time now and it is

reliable. The worst heart burn people generally get complete relief

in 20 min or less.

> " Kenneth Noonan <comfort1967@w...> " <comfort1967@w...> wrote:This

calcium can either be harvested on earth or right from the reef.Most

have said coral from the ocean is better...newer

evidenceproovesotherwise. Dont pay 29.95 for a months supply. I

found outthat avitamin outlet called Sundown Vitamins sells the same

stufffor only10 bucks per month.It helps detoxify your body and helps

you sleep. It is 80%bioavailabe as opposed to " regular " calcium, even

citrate,at 3 to 10percent...what a waste.Oh I am new here and suffer

fromagorphobia...I NEED HELP...plussevere GAD.FRIENDS, Kenny OOPPSSS

thecompany calls themselves Puritan pride in case you do a web

search. I am not promoting any company just happen to see a real low

price Ibought 2 bottles and wated to share it.

>

>

> Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health

> and well being.

>

> list or archives: Gettingwell

>

> ........ Gettingwell-

> post............. Gettingwell

> digest form...... Gettingwell-digest

> individual emails Gettingwell-normal

> no email......... Gettingwell-nomail

> moderator ....... Gettingwell-owner

> ...... Gettingwell-

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Gettingwell , " califpacific

<califpacific> " <califpacific> wrote:

> Dear Group,

 

> I am fairly certain that this was not " Nancy " but someone from that

> group/website masquerading as such to come here and spam the group

> with pitches disguised as member comments. I have seen it before in

> this and other groups.

>

> Frank

 

 

But why coconut oil? :) I don't know - I find it funny, of all the

things to harp about - it has to be coconut oil?.

 

I've seen this before too on other groups - there seems to be people

who are firm (fanatical?) about promoting coconut oil. I've always

assumed it has some commercial interest and I move on to the next

post.

 

I trust your judgement on this one.

 

Mary

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Dear Jerry,

 

Yes, Thanks.

 

Of course there are other things and I was not trying to make that

list all encompassing.

 

It was written on the spur of the moment, without trying to make a

comprehensive statement.

 

The obvious missing one would be Light (sunlight). The post was not

on the cause of disease per se, but a general post about a number of

things that I considered timely in the group.

 

regards,

 

Frank

 

 

Gettingwell , " Jerry Mittelman "

<jmittelman@n...> wrote:

> 4. Lack of exercise and rest.

> 5. Deficiency of a peaceful consciousness.

> Jerry

>

> The Holistic Dental Digest jmittelman@n... with your PO Box or

street address.

> -

> califpacific <califpacific>

> Gettingwell

> Saturday, December 14, 2002 9:47 PM

> Re: Natural health, posting, etc.was CORAL

REEF CALCIUM

>

>

> Dear Group,

>

> The great majority of illness is because of 3 reasons.

> 1. A defiency of some water, food (nutrient), sleep, air, etc.

> 2. A toxic substance poisoning the body from outside or inside.

> 3. A biological invader like viruses, bacteria, yeasts etc which

can

> in some cases cause #2 above.

>

> Like all good wars the system is composed of things that defend

> against an enemy and those that attack the enemy.

>

> The body has many defenses to comabt or attack #2 or #3 above but

can

> be overwhelmed if the amount is to great for the body to handle

or

> not enough of #1 is present to disarm and neutrilize or attack

the

> enemy as #2 and #3 above.

>

> This message is not to be all encompassing or comprehensive but

is

> aimed at trying to explain to people unfamiliar with natural

healing

> and is a generality and a very simplistic version so please bear

with

> me and not try and nit pick it to death.

>

> Allopathic medicine is almost all attack and no defense and based

on

> the one drug one symptom rule. This is usually the magic bullet

> theory or something like it, but with the the caveat " this is no

> magic bullet " thrown in. These are designed to relieve (or attack)

the

> symptom so it almost seems like magic. Take one, and shazam see

the

> difference in the symptom.

>

> If a person has a symptom (high blood pressure etc), then

> that " symptom " is treated with a medicine NO MATTER WHAT THE

CAUSE

> that brought about the rise in blood pressure. This is a very

> simplistic mechanical model of the body.

>

> Almost all of the medicines involved are man made laboratory

> chemicals which have never been known in nature and are usually

quite

> toxic in themselves because the body has much trouble breaking

them

> down and disposing of them. They usually also deplete the body of

the

> available nutrients and also block many of the bodies normal

sytems

> biochemicals, etc further imbalancing the system. I do not

consider

> them very good candidates for use on chronic diseases.

>

> Allopathic medicine was used to treat most symptoms even the

bodies

> normal, natural, immune responses to illness. For many years up

> untill the near present allopathic doctors gave medicine to even

stop

> fevers, diahrea, vomiting, etc. which was the bodies natural way

of

> making itself well.

>

> Sometimes it is desirable to use allopathic means, such as anti-

> biotics ( originally developed from a natural substance ...ie.

molds)

> to stop and kill invading bacteria, etc., but that will have to

wait

> for another subject due to space and time considerations.

>

> Herbs are hard to define. Some are medicine and some are food and

> some are both.

>

> They are much preferable in most cases to allopathic drugs

because

> most are somewhat similiar biochemically to what our bodies were

> designed to absorb, use, and detoxify from our natural

enviournment.

> A lot of these were probably included in our ancesters cave man

style

> diet. (Although as everyone knows, some plants and animals can

be

> horribly toxic [poisonous]too}. This too will have to wait till

> another time. A lot of herbalogy has evolved into the more

attack

> mode vs defense as most defense items became food to be eaten

> occaisonally in our ancestral diets.

>

> There are other modalities of healing like acupuncture, the

> electrical sytem within the body, the internal communication

sytem

> within the body, etc. These too will have to wait till later.

>

> I would like to clarify some points about nutritional healing.

>

> The body needs 50+ nutrients daily to live and be healthy.

>

> They are classified as " essential " nutrients because they are

> essential for life. We need other nutrients, but most can be made

in

> the body if enough essential nutrients and fuel are taken in to

> provide the raw material to make them.

>

> They are composed of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, fatty

acids, etc

>

> A deficiency of one or more of the essential nutrients will cause

the

> body to not be able to make the necessary biochemicals for health.

>

> The result will be illness or eventually death. The organs will

not

> have enough of all of the thousands of different biochemical

> substances to function properly. As a result, the illnesses can

be

> manifested in many many ways, depending on which organs are

affected.

> It all works like a seperate enviourmental ecosystem with one

> depending on many and vice versa. If any one part is affected it

will

> effect other parts also. It can start out small and continue in a

> domino effect. These symptoms can manifest themselves as

diabetis,

> heart trouble, cancer, blood pressure, etc.

>

> When trying to understand the concept, don't think of the body as

a

> machine (allopathic medicine) but something growing and natural

with

> an ecosystem like a lake, river,ocean, rainforest etc. Some

system

> that is a living ecosytem with all of the parts working together

to

> have a healthy living thing. If one of the parts becomes ill, the

> imbalace of the ecosytem is broken and the other parts suffer and

die

> too. They all rely on all of the other parts for the life cycles

to

> be sustained. The body is a very complex ecosystem in itself.

>

> Our nutrients to run this ecosytem are dependent on what our body

> takes in,... air, water, diet, supplements etc.

>

> The liver manufactures thousands of biochemicals on a continous

basis

> for many body functions. Many other organs make biochemicals that

> control many body functions. It is a very complex and precisely

> balanced ecosystem.

>

> It is not necessary to understand the functions and processes.

The

> ecosytem of our bodies does it automatically minute by minute and

> second by second. It is much more complex than any machine

devised by

> man's mind.

>

> It is not necessry to know how it works, but I suggest that you

> surely better know what needs to go into it, so that it is

allowed to

> work properly and can work on correcting it's defects by using

it's

> own processes.

>

> When we become ill and we try and regain our health, our simple

> thinking tries to find a solution that we can understand. Also we

are

> products of our society in which almost all treatment of illness

has

> been the one illness, one medicine type process and thinking.

>

> Economic considerations also come into play to skew our available

> information. Most of our information that we take in is gleaned

from

> our surroundings in our daily life. When we are bombarded by

> commercial interest information, whether it be from allopathic

> sources (take this pill and live life, like the picture on TV),

web

> sites proclaiming to have a " magic bullet " (mine is the only one

that

> works) natural remedy, some planted " news " item that masquerades

as

> impartial news or some junk science to promote an economic

interest.

> All are usually b*ll s**t.

>

> They aren't talking about your health, they are really talking

about

> their ecconomic health. This is area that you must learn about

and be

> able to seperate the wheat from the chaff or you will be chasing

> rainbows forever as their will always be somone saying " I have a

> better one " and once in a while it is true, but not usually.

>

> So, learn about vitamins, aminos, oils, minerals, etc, to be able

to

> know somewhat what we are deficient in to regain health. If the

> deficiency is long standing it make take a long time to correct

it.

>

> Learn what you as an individual needs to maintain health, as we

are

> all different, in what we need, in what amounts, etc. What my

body

> needs on a regular basis, is probably not what your biochemistry

> needs to maintain health.

>

> There is a huge difference in what nutrients are needed to barely

> sustain life and what is needed to have good health in a normal

> healthy body and another great difference in using nutrients in

> theraputic qwuantities to cure the problem.

>

> Learn about herbs to help the body fight against disease and be

> supportive to ameliorating syptoms.

>

> Learn about other natural methods like acupuncture etc.

>

> You herb people learn about vitamins and vice versa. This group

is so

> that we all can broaden our scope. To a hammer everything looks

like

> a nail.

>

> Learn about all of the modes of natural healing that you can and

even

> what allopathic medicine can offer in emergencies etc., but do

the

> basics above first. You must have a sound basis of nutrients

before

> any healing can take place.

>

> But most of all change your thinking from the magic bullet

thinking

> to one of the ecosystem and have a very healthy scepticism

towards

> most health information because it is mainly driven by economic

> interests first.

>

> This list was not designed to give anyone an education in

nutrition

> or natural healing. It isn't possible and it isn't my

responsibility.

> It is your body and your resposibility. You are the one who has

to

> learn for you to get the benefits. This list is here to discuss

the

> elements of natural healing and their relative benefits and

> shortcomings.

>

> I have heard from people, who had the audacity to demand or order

> what type of information they wanted here. If you want that

> information here. I suggest you get off your duff, research it

and

> post it here. But you better research it till you know a little

of

> what you are really talking about.

>

> Or the person can go someplace and be willing to pay for their

> demands. There are naturopaths, othomolecular, herbalists,

> acupunturists, etc, who are good health care sources of

information

> and treatments. In the main we are not health care providers and

> cannot diagnose and treat illness. How effective would it be

anyway?

>

> The " Hey, put your affected body part up to the computer

> scanner/monitor and let me diagnose you " with my very limited

skills

> and information doesn't seem like the best approach to me.

>

> That is not to say that we don't have some very, very

knowledgeable

> people here who give a lot of help to others by sharing thier

> knowledge. But they didn't get the bulk of their knowledge by

basing

> it solely on commercial information from ads in whatever form.

There

> are some here who I would trust for information very much and

have

> done so, in my personal journey to regain my health.

>

> The price here is free, but it is given by asking, not by demand

and

> it is limited in what can take place in a group discussion

situation.

> If you are going to have health for most of your life, you will

have

> to learn to the point of being able to really decide for yourself

> your health and disease issues and treatments and their relative

> merits and drawbacks. Or at least have enough knowledge that you

can

> discern the value of the information that you get from other

sources,

> paid for or not.

>

> Even here on this list, a lot of what passes for health

information

> is information derived from economic interest mainly sources and

> usually biased as such. If you cut and paste from a commercial

source

> you should be knowledgeable enough about your subject to either

> discuss it's merits also or be able to pick and choose from it's

more

> unbiased elements.

>

> That is not to say that most posts here are thinly veiled spam to

> personally promote their product, No, I'm saying that most people

are

> bombarded by information, designed to instill a bias in the

reader or

> listener, to affect the person's beliefs to the point, to

purchase

> that specific product. And we are only human aren't we? We are

all

> affected somewhat, no matter what.

>

> The only way to counteract this, is to take in lots of hopefully

> unbiased information also to give the person some balance.

>

> For all of the people who want to learn from mainly unbiased

sources,

> start with our links page and work your way through those sites.

For

> a lot of people, this is not the solution that appeals to them.

They

> want a false, fantastical, " magic bullet " instead for every

problem

> or symptom.

>

> This is not per se a moderated group. But is semi moderated,

> somewhat. If it wasn't, we would be up to our eyeballs in spam.

It is

> a somewhat hit or miss system as time allows.

>

> Also if you post something which is personal and not of interest

to

> the group, there is a good chance that it will not show up here.

Use

> an email to thank them. OK?

>

> I disagree with a lot of what gets posted here, but I believe

that

> they have the right to post in most instances if they can discuss

it

> in a somewhat intelligent manner or it may have some interest in

the

> group. A one sentence reply " I use xyz " or somesuch is not

> considered a somewhat intelligent post or of great interest to

the

> group.

>

> Your free speech rights here are balanced by the group's needs. I

> believe in free speach a lot, but that also might mean that you

have

> the freedom to go start your own group and say whatever it is

that

> you feel that you need to say.

>

> just my 2 cents,

>

> Frank

>

> PS. I know that this posting is full of misspellings, punctuation

> errors, syntax etc. I don't care, and if it cares to much to you,

you

> are missing the point anyway.

>

>

>

> Gettingwell , Rain Water

<seveneasypeaces>

> wrote:

> >

> > http://www.herbalab.com/coralwhich.htm

> > I've been doing some research recently and found this. And a

> friend said this about this product: If you know of anyone with

> heartburn or acid reflux, you can advise with complete confidence

> even in the most severe case that it will disappear and stay gone

> with one cap per day. I do not have it nor do I even know what

it is

> like but have given a capsule on many occasions to people who do

and

> IS a magic bullet. Also if you ever come across an animal that

is

> lame like arthritis from age, if you test the saliva of that

animal

> and it is acidic, by giving coral calcium that animal (dogs in my

> case) will rebound and once again become active. Stop the coral

> calcium and he will quickly return to his original painful

state.

> Have been experimenting with this for some time now and it is

> reliable. The worst heart burn people generally get complete

relief

> in 20 min or less.

> > " Kenneth Noonan <comfort1967@w...> " <comfort1967@w...>

wrote:This

> calcium can either be harvested on earth or right from the

reef.Most

> have said coral from the ocean is better...newer

> evidenceproovesotherwise. Dont pay 29.95 for a months supply. I

> found outthat avitamin outlet called Sundown Vitamins sells the

same

> stufffor only10 bucks per month.It helps detoxify your body and

helps

> you sleep. It is 80%bioavailabe as opposed to " regular " calcium,

even

> citrate,at 3 to 10percent...what a waste.Oh I am new here and

suffer

> fromagorphobia...I NEED HELP...plussevere GAD.FRIENDS, Kenny

OOPPSSS

> thecompany calls themselves Puritan pride in case you do a web

> search. I am not promoting any company just happen to see a real

low

> price Ibought 2 bottles and wated to share it.

> >

> >

> > Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building

health

> > and well being.

> >

> > list or archives: Gettingwell

> >

> > ........ Gettingwell-

> > post............. Gettingwell

> > digest form...... Gettingwell-digest

> > individual emails Gettingwell-normal

> > no email......... Gettingwell-nomail

> > moderator ....... Gettingwell-owner

> > ...... Gettingwell-

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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