Vitamin C Wars!

[Guest guest]

Linus Pauling was one of our finest Chemists. He won two Nobel Prizes, He

had the foresight to lead the fight against Nuclear tests.

 

Very intelligent this man. Read his books to get a grounding in how

scientists fight each other.

 

Pauling defined Vitamin C as Ascorbic Acid. The word ascorbic means

" fights scurvy " or anti-scurvy. Of course scurvy is the disease

resulting from a lack of fresh food or Vitamin C.

 

If you want to know about vitamin C; Please see Pauling.

 

 

As for the high cost of Vitamin C or some of the " Ascorbates " Call 1

900 235 3200 and ask for a Bronson

Catalog, or search it out at www.Bronsonlabs.com Before you

believe any thing about the cost of these products.

 

All this aside I think it is great that some promotions of Vitamin C come

to the attention of us and others. Even if they make a mistaken claim

occasionally- as few will be hurt and most will be helped.

 

Lorenzo

 

 

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[Guest guest]

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" Lorenzo " <lorenzo1

 

Friday, September 06, 2002 8:16 PM

Vitamin C Wars!

 

 

> Linus Pauling was one of our finest Chemists. He won two Nobel

Prizes, He

> had the foresight to lead the fight against Nuclear tests.

>

> Very intelligent this man. Read his books to get a grounding in

how

> scientists fight each other.

>

> Pauling defined Vitamin C as Ascorbic Acid. The word ascorbic

means

> " fights scurvy " or anti-scurvy. Of course scurvy is the disease

> resulting from a lack of fresh food or Vitamin C.

>

> If you want to know about vitamin C; Please see Pauling.

 

But beware that the the Linus Pauling Institute has backed

away from Pauling's ideas. The Institute tells people to use far

less Vitamin C than Pauling did. For the real scoop, look to Dr.

Rath.

 

>

>

> As for the high cost of Vitamin C or some of the " Ascorbates "

Call 1

> 900 235 3200 and ask for a Bronson

> Catalog, or search it out at www.Bronsonlabs.com Before

you

> believe any thing about the cost of these products.

>

> All this aside I think it is great that some promotions of

Vitamin C come

> to the attention of us and others. Even if they make a mistaken

claim

> occasionally- as few will be hurt and most will be helped.

>

> Lorenzo

 

Not sure where I nabbed the info below, but I found it useful

& so pass it on.

 

Alobar

 

I found 2 sites about megadoses of vitamin C. The first

is a simple guide for taking C to bowell tollerance written by an MD.

http://doctoryourself.com/titration.html

 

The second site is also by an MD (bio at bottom of this

letter). He debunks a lot of the scare tactics used by doctors

(kidney stones, etc.) to get people to limit their vitamin C intake.

Below is URL followed by snippets from the site. There is an

extensive medical bibliography on the page.

 

http://doctoryourself.com/klennerpaper.html

 

Diabetes mellitus response to 10 grams ascorbic acid by mouth.

Over the past 17 years we have studied the effect of 10 grams by

mouth, in patients with diabetes mellitus. We found that every

diabetic not taking supplemental vitamin C could be classified as

having sub-clinical scurvy. For this reason they find it difficult to

heal wounds. The diabetic patient will use the supplemental vitamin C

for better utilization of his insulin. It will assist the liver in

the metabolism of carbohydrates and to reinstate his body to heal

wounds like normal individuals. We found that 60% of all diabetics

could be controlled with diet and 10 grams ascorbic acid daily. The

other 40% will need much less needle insulin and less oral

medication. Contrary to what Medical News Letter, (Vol. 12 # 26, Dec.

25 1970) carried to the physicians the Tes-Tape is accurate in

testing urine samples.

 

 

Observations following post-surgery cases on blood plasma levels of

ascorbic acid. Deduction is evident of the need for substantial

amounts of ascorbic acid prior to surgery.

 

In 1960 and again in 1966, in papers delivered before the Tri-State

Medical Society, I called attention to the " scurvy " levels of

ascorbic acid found in postoperative patients. Plasma levels recorded

before starting anesthesia and after cessation of such inhalants and

completion of surgery remained unchanged. This has lead many to

believe that surgery created little or no demand for supplemental

" C " . We found, however, that samples of blood taken six hours after

surgery showed drops of approximately 1/4 the starting amount and at

12 hours the levels were down to one-half. Samples taken 24 hours

later, without added ascorbic acid to fluids, showed levels 3/4 lower

than the original samples. Baylor University research team reported

similar findings in 1965. Bartlett, Jones[48] and others reported

that in spite of low levels of plasma ascorbic acid at time of

surgery, normal wound healing may be produced by adequate vitamin C

therapy during the post-operative period. Lanman and Ingalls[47]

showed that the tensile strength of healing wounds is lowered in the

presence of " scurvy plasma levels " . Schumacher[48] reported that the

preoperative use of as little as 500 mg of vitamin C given orally

" was remarkably successful in preventing shock and weakness "

following dental extractions. Many other investigators have shown in

both laboratory and clinical studies, that optimal primary wound

healing is dependent to a large extent upon the vitamin C content of

the tissues.

 

In 1949, it was my privilege to assist at an abdominal exploratory

laparotomy. A mass of small viscera was found " glued together " . The

area was so friable that every attempt at separation produced a torn

intestine. After repairing some 20 tears the surgeon closed the

cavity as a hopeless situation. Two grams ascorbic acid was given by

syringe every two hours for 48 hours and then 4 times each day. In 36

hours the patient was walking the halls and in seven days was

discharged with normal elimination and no pain. She has outlived her

surgeon by many years. We recommend that all patients take 10 grams

ascorbic acid each day. Where this is not done and the surgery is

elective, then 10 grams by mouth should be given for several weeks

prior to surgery. At least 30 grams should be given, daily, in

solutions, post-operatively, until oral medication is allowed and

tolerated.

 

 

 

How concerned should we be about oxalic acid and kidney stones?

A technical explanation.

 

One of the " scare " weapons used by the critics on high daily doses of

ascorbic acid is the oxalic acid-kidney stone hypothesis. Meakins[36]

states that the chief factors in the formation of renal calculi are

perversions of metabolic processes, infection and stasis in the

urinary tract. There are two schools of thought on stone formation:

1) That there is a central nucleus of colloids on which the

crystalloids are precipitated; 2) That the crystalloids are deposited

from the urine in which they are present in concentrated solution, in

which salt and hydrogen ion concentrations are important factors. In

all cases stasis and a concentrated urine appear to be the chief

physiological factors. The only way that oxalic acid can be produced

from ascorbic acid is through splitting of the lactone ring. This

happens above pH5. The reaction of urine when 10 grams of vitamin C

is taken daily is usually pH6. Oxalic acid precipitates out of

solution only from a neutral or alkaline solution-pH7 to pH10. Kelli

and Zilva[37] reported that " Nutrition experiments showed that

dehydroascorbic acid is protected in vivo from rapid transformation

to the antiscorbutically impotent diketogulonic acid from which

oxalic acid is derived. " Values reported in the literature for normal

24 hour urinary oxalate excretions for humans range from 14 mg to 56

mg. Lamden et al.[38] found in a group of volunteers that the

ingestion of 9 grams ascorbic acid daily resulted in oxalate spills

as high as 68 mg for 24 hours and in the controls without extra

vitamin C the high was 64 mg for a 24 hour period.

 

These critics have overlooked the individual with diabetes mellitus.

The amount of oxalic acid found in the diabetic patient approximates

that found in the urine of a normal person taking 10 grams vitamin C

each day. With the diabetic we find a paradox. Give this individual

10 grams ascorbic acid daily, by mouth, and the urinary oxalate

excretion remains relatively unchanged. Diabetics are known for their

diuresis. The individual who takes 10 or more grams of vitamin C each

day will find that this organic compound is an excellent diuretic. No

urinary stasis; no urine concentration.

 

The ascorbic acid kidney stone story is a myth.

 

 

Frederick R. Klenner, M.D., F.C.C.P.

Reidsville, North Carolina

 

A native of Pennsylvania, Dr. Klenner attended St. Vincent and St.

Francis College, where he received his B.S. and M.S. degrees in

biology. He graduated magna cum laude and was awarded a teaching

fellowship there. He was also awarded the college medal for

scholastic philosophy. There followed another teaching fellowship in

chemistry at Catholic University, Where he pursued studies for a

doctorate in physiology.

 

Dr. Klenner then 'migrated' to North Carolina and Duke University to

continue his studies. He arrived in time to use his knowledge in

physiology and chemistry to free the nervous system of the frog for a

symposium by immersing the animal in 10% nitric acid. Taken in tow by

Dr. Pearse, chairman of the department, he was finally persuaded to

enter the school of medicine. He completed his studies at Duke

University and received his medical degree in 1936.

 

Dr. Klenner served three years in post graduate hospital training

before embarking on a private practice in medicine. Although

specializing in diseases of the chest, he continued to do general

practice because of the opportunities it afforded for observations in

medicine. His patients were as enthusiastic as he in playing guinea

pigs to study the action of ascorbic acid. The first massive doses of

ascorbic acid he gave to himself. Each time something new appeared on

the horizon he took the same amount of ascorbic acid to study its

effects so as to come up with the answers.

 

Dr. Klenner's list of honors and professional society affiliations is

tremendous. He is listed in a flock of various " Who's Who " registers.

He has published many scientific papers throughout his scientific

career.