Guest guest Posted August 17, 2002 Report Share Posted August 17, 2002 This is a reply (edited) I sent to another email group in response to someone quoting Barrett and Quackwatch as a source to invaladate vit C and it's beneficial effects with cancer therapy: Quack watch, hosted by medical rabid dog Stephen Barrett is blind to anything except big medical business. I'll explain in a second. This study (quite a large one) done by the Mayo Clinic says " it ain't so " . This " study " (Creagan, Moertel, et.al., 1979) is itself a study in either in-accurate reporting or just plain old lying. If you bother to read the study, instead of just cutting a pasting off Barrett's site, you would read that 63 percent of the ascorbate treated patients claimed some improvement. Now this very respectable number of people who felt better was in spite of the dirty rigging done by Mayo Clinic. You see what they did was first " treat " the subjects of this test with cytotoxic chemotherapy. Cytotoxins are well known to damage the immune system and it's the immune system that vit C works through to reverse cancer. They knew they were sabotaging this test. The Mayo study was like proving that automobiles don't work after you've remove the electrical system and the fuel line. Instead of looking at the flawed Mayo study instead look at studies done during the same era in the UK (Vale of Leven) or Japan (Fukuoka) which both showed beyond a doubt that Vitamin C improved quality of life, reversed and in some cases " cured " cancers that were untreatable, incurable and some of the patients who should have died DIDN'T. Linus Pauling was a two time Nobel prize winner. First for Chemistry and his genius in the field and the second for peace because he is a humanitarian. Your slander of this man and his work is inexcusable Oaktoad. Dr. Pauling has been singled out by two authoritative sources as one of the top 20 scientists of all time, along with Aristotle, Galileo and Newton. The only other scientist selected from the 20th century was Albert Einstein. He was the head of the Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine. An insider who knew better than to use the word " Cure " because of the knee-jerk reaction of the medical community at large to that word. Any intellegent layman who actually reads the books and the studies on ascorbate supplementation in relation to cancer can only come to the conclusion that it at the least vastly improves the quality of life of the cancer sufferer and in many cases has provided complete remission (read CURE!). In 1990 a conference sponsored by the National Cancer Institute and the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases brought together researchers from all over the globe who had been working in isolation and allowed them to present their studies on vit C. A hundred papers all pointing to the same thing: Vitamin C retards and reverses the course of many, many types of cancers. In many cases people who were supposed to die did not. In my book that's called CURE. Your source for your information Stephen Barrett is a real bottom feeder also. Since you like to cut and paste Oaky, here's some cut and paste for you on this retired but stll noisy quack: The Village Voice, founded in New York City in 1955 has the largest circulation of any weekly newspaper in the U.S. (250,000). Barrett told the Village Voice that most alternative therapies should be disregarded without further research. Why? " A lot of things don't need to be tested (because) they simply don't make sense. " Peter Barry Chowka, a consultant to NIH's Office of Alternative Medicine added his commentary to the Village Voice article: " He (Barrett) seems to be putting down trying to be objective. " Mr. Chowka said Quackwatch.com was " consistently provocative and entertaining, and occasionally informative, The New Zealand Government is very familiar with Barrett. Back in the 1970's they had this to say about him: 14. Other material which we have issued under the auspices of the Lehigh Valley Committee Against health Fraud (now Quackwatch) has features which in our opinion render it unreliable on matters of fact. 18. It is clear that the enthusiasm of (quackwatch) is greater than its respect for accuracy. We are not prepared to place any reliance on material emanating from (quackwatch). Summery: New Zealand Royal Commission, were none too pleased with Barrett’s performance. “Nothing he has written…can be relied on as balanced…it is clear that the enthusiasm of (quackwatch) is greater than its respect for accuracy.” Citizens for Health Freedom (www.citizenshealth.org): Barrett is known to be one of the most outspoken critics of anything to do with alternative medicine. They (quackwatch) are by no means impartial, neutral, or without vested interests. Under the guise of “protecting” consumers from fraud, their goal is to squash any economic competition to the pharmaceutical industry. To list this organization as a resource is like asking the Ku Klux Klan about Civil Rights! They should not be used as consultants or advisors. It is the opinion of our organizations that the quackbusters are organized to attack alternative medicine. They have been proven not to have the credentials they claim and they have provided bias and false information to the board, as court witnesses, and to the legislature. We suggest the board consult with physicians and professionals who are in full time practice of medicine rather than professional, hired bias witnesses. “The American public is being grossly misled by Stephen Barrett. While he positions himself as a protector of the public, his statements are, in reality, so one-sided that he simply cannot be taken seriously.” So there you go. You can quote , side with and hang out with the liars, cheats and big dollar medical boys all you want. I'll side with truth, honesty and the only man to have ever received two unshared nobel prizes, Linus Pauling in saying vitamin C does wonders for people with cancer and in many cases CURES CANCER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2002 Report Share Posted August 17, 2002 Hi Mary and welcome to the group - I don't know anything of Quackwatch so cannot comment on that but would like to comment on a couple of other things. I think it is absolutely brilliant that you have managed to get off the meds and away from depression. I pray that you can do the same for your son and quickly too. For your daughters asthma you may want to try the newest thing to be discussed which is from India and works for quite a few allergy type things, it is called Yamoa and is totally natural. Just type Yamoa into your search engine and it will bring up loads of sites. As for alternatives, I don't personally think that is the right word - I think we should look at everything that is not allopathic as complimentary because there are some occasions (unfortunately) that we do need allopathic help. Once we have managed to get off the allopathic meds with the aid of the 'complimentary' help that we have used, then it is wise to keep with that to stay healthy. Although I don't know much about the Atkins Diet, I will take a look and study it as it may well help a friend of mine. If your friend has not heard of the Dr Budwig diet then he should look at it because it is a known 'cure' for cancer. I agree that we will never stamp out quackery in complimentary medicine, especially when they not monitor them in the same manor as allopathic practitioners but we can ask friends and colleagues to recommend a good one and it is our duty to recommend to anyone who needs them, any good complimentary practitioner that we have been lucky enough to find. However, there is also a great deal of quackery in allopathic medicine and probably more than in complimentaary medicine. I wish you every success in helping your son and daughter and congratulate you on finding a solution to your own health issues and getting away from allopathic meds. Marianne > > > I am no longer on antidepressants, no longer suicidal, depressed, > fatigued. I'm actually feeling great and can't remember when I felt > such freedom from depression (and perscription medications). I may > be a too emphatic but feel I'm still in shock at such a simple > revelation and solution after years of mainstream symptomatic > treatment. I've had a life of experiences but few that I can relate > my stories with. From what I have read on this board, I'm hoping > I've found a place to share and learn. > > I'm now trying to get my son off antidepressants. He was diagnosed > with a circadian rhythmn sleep disorder several years ago and so the > prescriptions started, along with significant weight gain, social > withdrawal etc. I'm also particularly interested in asthma which my > daughter has, and diabetes, multiple sceloris, and affective > disorders which plague my family of origin. > > I flipped over and read some of Dr. Garrett. The only credential I > saw was that of MD, not PhD. It brought to my memory the many > occassions I listened to professors of medicine (PhDs) grip that > MD's were not given sufficient education in med school to be > considered experts, particularly in science, dispite the delusion > presented to the public that they are. Reading Garrett's article > on " How Quackery Harms " , he states that when establishment tells you > that you have cancer and are dying, that you should spend your > remaining time digging your own grave, and not fighting death by > trying anything and everything to stay alive. That to me is the > epitome of vanity, arrogance, and the complete opposite of what that > Hippocratic Oath that he took says to do - use his knowledge to > promote life, not death. His credibility to me flies out the window > right there. > > I read one of his where he attacked vitamins as being a multi- > million dollar industry but I could not find anything that addresses > the pharmaceutical industry who brings in 90 billion dollars a year > and is the most profitable industry in this country. As a business > major, multi-millions do not exactly compare well with what is close > to being a trillion and it just seems that common sense would say > that this industry would greater merit such watchdogs as Dr. Garrett > rather than the alternatives who are incidental in comparison. > > I wouldn't argue that there is quackery in alternatives - > alternatives by definition encompass an extremely broad span of any > and all ideas outside of mainstream medicine. But I would argue that > there is an absence of " quackery " by his own definition in > establshed medicine, as well as most all other professions and he is > very misleading in not addressing this. His arguments could be > applied to mainstream medicine just as well complete with examples > so he exactly as Terry above states, " is not even-handed, fair or > open " . > > As an accountant, I watch with close interest the news on the > corporate robber barons and accounting scandals. Recently the > Houston Chronicle (I believe it also in the Washington Post) exposed > the fact that the president of MD Anderson Cancer Treatment Center > was involved in the Imclone scandal (ref Martha Stewart) the company > being based on " his " drug. And it was revealed that MD Anderson has > had a policy for years of treating patients with experimental > medications without their knowledge or consent - his drug included. > I've d to Garrett's discussion and intend on asking him if > he thinks MD Anderson would meet his claim of " misplaced trust " in > cancer therapies with unproven treatments - it certainly fits it to > me. Considering its fame, I think the violation of trust and faith > from patients to be without comparison to his isolated cases of > alternative quacks who are hardly hiding within such a respected > institution. I find it hard to believe that MD Anderson, number one > cancer treatment center in the world, would be alone in such a > practice. Considering the money sought to be made personally from > these treatments once FDA approval was given based on these clinical > trials using unknowing human beings as their guinea pigs, who should > we be most suspicious of exploiting us? I'm not trying to say > mainstream medicine is bad and alternative good, but rather that > Garrett is not even realistic about the most significant issues > going on. > > Mary > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 marianne2406 wrote: > Hi Mary and welcome to the group - I don't know anything of Quackwatch so > cannot comment on that but would like to comment on a couple of other things. > > I think it is absolutely brilliant that you have managed to get off the meds > and away from depression. I pray that you can do the same for your son and > quickly too. For your daughters asthma you may want to try the newest thing > to be discussed which is from India and works for quite a few allergy type > things, it is called Yamoa and is totally natural. Just type Yamoa into your > search engine and it will bring up loads of sites. Does anyone know of something natural which will replace such drugs as Risperidone which is used to treat but not cure schizophrenia? Morton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 Gettingwell, Morton Bodanis <mortonmb@c...> wrote: > > > marianne2406@a... wrote: > > > Hi Mary and welcome to the group - I don't know anything of Quackwatch so > > cannot comment on that but would like to comment on a couple of other things. > > > > I think it is absolutely brilliant that you have managed to get off the meds > > and away from depression. I pray that you can do the same for your son and > > quickly too. For your daughters asthma you may want to try the newest thing > > to be discussed which is from India and works for quite a few allergy type > > things, it is called Yamoa and is totally natural. Just type Yamoa into your > > search engine and it will bring up loads of sites. > > Does anyone know of something natural which will replace such drugs as > Risperidone which is used to treat but not cure schizophrenia? > > Morton Morton, Are you by any chance referring to Risperdal? JoAnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 Thanks Marianne for your suggestions. This is really opening a door for me. My frustrations and critisisms with allopathic (new term for me) medicine have come from personal experiences and my own conclusions. I have friends and family who think I have cracked, I sometimes question that I've just become too cynical and embittered. It is so reassuring to be finding others who have drawn the same conclusions and are ahead of me. Robert Atkins ranks up there with Linus Pauling on the AMA's list of their own they most love to hate. He took his MD from Cornell and initially trained in cardiology, and runs the Atkins Center for Complimentary Medicine in New York City. While he uses supplements in treatment and has a book on vitanutrients, he is most known for challenging the anti-fat/low cholesteral ideas. His site is Atkinscenter.com. The following article, " What If It's Been a Big Fat Lie? " was published in the New York Times magazine in July and has brought Atkins into the limelight of late - it gives some history on Atkins' persecution and the cholesteral scam - http://atkinscenter.com/Archive/2002/7/9-672214.html He basically is of the belief that man is primarily a meat eater, needs fats in his diet, and the high consumption of carbohydrates and low consumption of meats results in too much sugar, too much insulin, and deficiencies in other nutrients. And he believes the current dietary recommendations based on low fat is why we are seeing such an increase in obesity, diabetes, cancer, mental problems etc. He claims to get people off antidepressants - it certainly worked for me. There is also Sugar Buster's diet and the Zone which are very similar. I've sent Budwig's diet to my friend but I don't expect too favorable a response to it. His main tumor is on the pancreas and he avoids any and all sugars like the plague as he has trouble producing much insulin anyway. He only touches fruits on rare occassion, cottage cheese has a fair amount of carbs in it, I know he won't even drink milk. He also trained as a toxicologist and is very adamant against alcohol - Budwig recommends champagne for those really ill - he has been known to rant about this " instrument of death and destruction " being legal only because of politics and influence of the alcohol industry who suppresses the indisputable facts. I know he takes milk thistle and was looking for vitamin K in a liquid form, if anyone knows where that could be obtained, again it would be appreciated. I've been searching on yamoa but I haven't found much beyond personal claims that it works on sites selling the product. I couldn't link into the FDA site you gave or find anything there. If anyone has anything beyond the testemonials, most particularly what the compound is, I would be most interested. I have found some current research exploring connections of B-12 and magnesium deficiencies in asthma but nothing conclusive at this point. I'm interested in hearing how your experiences go with it. Mary - marianne2406 Gettingwell Saturday, August 17, 2002 10:03 AM Re: Re: Quackwatch Hi Mary and welcome to the group - I don't know anything of Quackwatch so cannot comment on that but would like to comment on a couple of other things. I think it is absolutely brilliant that you have managed to get off the meds and away from depression. I pray that you can do the same for your son and quickly too. For your daughters asthma you may want to try the newest thing to be discussed which is from India and works for quite a few allergy type things, it is called Yamoa and is totally natural. Just type Yamoa into your search engine and it will bring up loads of sites. As for alternatives, I don't personally think that is the right word - I think we should look at everything that is not allopathic as complimentary because there are some occasions (unfortunately) that we do need allopathic help. Once we have managed to get off the allopathic meds with the aid of the 'complimentary' help that we have used, then it is wise to keep with that to stay healthy. Although I don't know much about the Atkins Diet, I will take a look and study it as it may well help a friend of mine. If your friend has not heard of the Dr Budwig diet then he should look at it because it is a known 'cure' for cancer. I agree that we will never stamp out quackery in complimentary medicine, especially when they not monitor them in the same manor as allopathic practitioners but we can ask friends and colleagues to recommend a good one and it is our duty to recommend to anyone who needs them, any good complimentary practitioner that we have been lucky enough to find. However, there is also a great deal of quackery in allopathic medicine and probably more than in complimentaary medicine. I wish you every success in helping your son and daughter and congratulate you on finding a solution to your own health issues and getting away from allopathic meds. Marianne > > > I am no longer on antidepressants, no longer suicidal, depressed, > fatigued. I'm actually feeling great and can't remember when I felt > such freedom from depression (and perscription medications). I may > be a too emphatic but feel I'm still in shock at such a simple > revelation and solution after years of mainstream symptomatic > treatment. I've had a life of experiences but few that I can relate > my stories with. From what I have read on this board, I'm hoping > I've found a place to share and learn. > > I'm now trying to get my son off antidepressants. He was diagnosed > with a circadian rhythmn sleep disorder several years ago and so the > prescriptions started, along with significant weight gain, social > withdrawal etc. I'm also particularly interested in asthma which my > daughter has, and diabetes, multiple sceloris, and affective > disorders which plague my family of origin. > > I flipped over and read some of Dr. Garrett. The only credential I > saw was that of MD, not PhD. It brought to my memory the many > occassions I listened to professors of medicine (PhDs) grip that > MD's were not given sufficient education in med school to be > considered experts, particularly in science, dispite the delusion > presented to the public that they are. Reading Garrett's article > on " How Quackery Harms " , he states that when establishment tells you > that you have cancer and are dying, that you should spend your > remaining time digging your own grave, and not fighting death by > trying anything and everything to stay alive. That to me is the > epitome of vanity, arrogance, and the complete opposite of what that > Hippocratic Oath that he took says to do - use his knowledge to > promote life, not death. His credibility to me flies out the window > right there. > > I read one of his where he attacked vitamins as being a multi- > million dollar industry but I could not find anything that addresses > the pharmaceutical industry who brings in 90 billion dollars a year > and is the most profitable industry in this country. As a business > major, multi-millions do not exactly compare well with what is close > to being a trillion and it just seems that common sense would say > that this industry would greater merit such watchdogs as Dr. Garrett > rather than the alternatives who are incidental in comparison. > > I wouldn't argue that there is quackery in alternatives - > alternatives by definition encompass an extremely broad span of any > and all ideas outside of mainstream medicine. But I would argue that > there is an absence of " quackery " by his own definition in > establshed medicine, as well as most all other professions and he is > very misleading in not addressing this. His arguments could be > applied to mainstream medicine just as well complete with examples > so he exactly as Terry above states, " is not even-handed, fair or > open " . > > As an accountant, I watch with close interest the news on the > corporate robber barons and accounting scandals. Recently the > Houston Chronicle (I believe it also in the Washington Post) exposed > the fact that the president of MD Anderson Cancer Treatment Center > was involved in the Imclone scandal (ref Martha Stewart) the company > being based on " his " drug. And it was revealed that MD Anderson has > had a policy for years of treating patients with experimental > medications without their knowledge or consent - his drug included. > I've d to Garrett's discussion and intend on asking him if > he thinks MD Anderson would meet his claim of " misplaced trust " in > cancer therapies with unproven treatments - it certainly fits it to > me. Considering its fame, I think the violation of trust and faith > from patients to be without comparison to his isolated cases of > alternative quacks who are hardly hiding within such a respected > institution. I find it hard to believe that MD Anderson, number one > cancer treatment center in the world, would be alone in such a > practice. Considering the money sought to be made personally from > these treatments once FDA approval was given based on these clinical > trials using unknowing human beings as their guinea pigs, who should > we be most suspicious of exploiting us? I'm not trying to say > mainstream medicine is bad and alternative good, but rather that > Garrett is not even realistic about the most significant issues > going on. > > Mary > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 mrsjoguest wrote: > Gettingwell, Morton Bodanis <mortonmb@c...> wrote: > > > > Does anyone know of something natural which will replace such > drugs as > > Risperidone which is used to treat but not cure schizophrenia? > > > > Morton > > Morton, > > Are you by any chance referring to Risperdal? > > JoAnn Yes. Both names are correct. Morton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2002 Report Share Posted August 19, 2002 Hi Mary, sorry you couldn't get into the FDA site - as for the Yamoa, it has apparently been in the UK for the last 10 years although I have only just heard about it. There was a very good article in one of our daily newspapers (every Tuesday I buy this paper because it has a very good 'health & complimentary health' section and last week it was about Yamoa, I have ordered some for my husband and will happily give a report on how it helps him. We have not received it yet but I am hoping that it will arrive durng this week (as it has to be ordered by post it takes that little bit longer whilst they cash the cheque etc). My husband does not have asthma but he has had allergic rhinitis for the last 10 - 12 years. I have managed to get him to take a dairy and sugar free diet which has helped greatly (reduced his meds by at least half and sometimes more) but has not cured - the profess that the Yamoa will cure. Marianne > > Thanks Marianne for your suggestions. This is really opening a door for > me. My frustrations and critisisms with allopathic (new term for me) > medicine have come from personal experiences and my own conclusions. I have > friends and family who think I have cracked, I sometimes question that I've > just become too cynical and embittered. It is so reassuring to be finding > others who have drawn the same conclusions and are ahead of me. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2002 Report Share Posted August 19, 2002 ---Morton, This drug has multiple side effects. I have noticed facial twitching along with weird muscle reactions while my husband was on it. They prescribed this for manic-depressive behaviour in his case. Whatever the cause, it is possible to successfully stop! With various and sundry supplementation, Tom is no longer addicted to this drug. miraculously there were no weird personality changes when he stopped it on his own several months ago, but he was using it in addition to Lithium, which he still takes. In my opinion, antidepressants are a waste of money. The correct balance of essential fatty acids...3s, 6s and 9s, as in Udo's oils solves the problem. I have an article to that effect. It is SO true! A healthy brain consists of 80% EFAs. We need to supply these on a daily basis. The various drugs that were given to him for manic-depressive traits didn't resolve any of his problems. With the correct supplementation, he no longer has any symptoms!! JoAnn Guest angelprincessjo Friendsforhealthnaturally DietaryTipsForHBP http://canceranswer.homestead.com/AIM.html In Gettingwell, Morton Bodanis <mortonmb@c...> wrote: > > > mrsjoguest wrote: > > > Gettingwell, Morton Bodanis <mortonmb@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > Does anyone know of something natural which will replace such > > drugs as > > > Risperidone which is used to treat but not cure schizophrenia? > > > > > > Morton > > > > Morton, > > > > Are you by any chance referring to Risperdal? > > > > JoAnn > > Yes. Both names are correct. > Morton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2002 Report Share Posted August 19, 2002 JoAnn Thanks. Morton mrsjoguest wrote: > ---Morton, > This drug has multiple side effects. I have noticed facial twitching > along with weird muscle reactions while my husband was on it. They > prescribed this for manic-depressive behaviour in his case. Whatever > the cause, it is possible to successfully stop! > With various and sundry supplementation, Tom is no longer addicted > to this drug. miraculously there were no weird personality changes > when he stopped it on his own several months ago, but he was using > it in addition to Lithium, which he still takes. > In my opinion, antidepressants are a waste of money. The correct > balance of essential fatty acids...3s, 6s and 9s, as in Udo's oils > solves the problem. I have an article to that effect. It is SO true! > A healthy brain consists of 80% EFAs. We need to supply these on a > daily basis. > The various drugs that were given to him for manic-depressive > traits didn't resolve any of his problems. With the correct > supplementation, he no longer has any symptoms!! > > JoAnn Guest > > In Gettingwell, Morton Bodanis <mortonmb@c...> wrote: > > > > > > mrsjoguest wrote: > > > > > Gettingwell, Morton Bodanis <mortonmb@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of something natural which will replace such > > > drugs as > > > > Risperidone which is used to treat but not cure schizophrenia? > > > > > > > > Morton > > > > > > Morton, > > > > > > Are you by any chance referring to Risperdal? > > > > > > JoAnn > > > > Yes. Both names are correct. > > Morton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2002 Report Share Posted September 8, 2002 > " think we should look at everything that is not allopathic as complimentary > because there are some occasions (unfortunately) that we do need allopathic > help. " You all probably do not want to hear from me. I nearly died under the care of a Naturopathic Physician, a grad with a doctoral degree from Bastyr. He misdiagnosed a condition as despression and put me on 5-HTP for it, which actually caused a full-blown depression. It also caused anorexia and such GI upset that I was barely getting 600 calories a day. What he diagnosed as panic attacks were actually profound hunger from lack of protein. There has been a recent meta-analysis of the studies on 5-HTP, the conclusion being that the effects on the gut were so strong that it was impossible to do double-blind studies, and that most of the other studies were not big enough to be meaningful. I have contacted Michael Murray, ND, who wrote the book on 5-HTP, and all he sends is a form letter stating I should buy his book. What is appalling is that the other NDs in his state did not want to hear about my experience. The treatment with the ND lasted about 1-1/2 years and during that time he also broke some basic codes of professional ethics. Not only did my health deteriorate, physically and emotionally, but so did my bank account. I am now going to a cognitive-behavioral therapist who is more about mind-body medicine than any practitioners I have met. I have been to acupuncturists, massage therapists, and other NDs. None of them bash allopathic medicine the way I see people doing on these forums. In fact, they both work well together. What my experience has been, and what I have seen with others, is that in the holistic field, we spend endless amounts of time looking for the underlying cause of a disease, trying this vitamin, that supplement, this kind of massage - it's still all symptom control. Naturopaths in most states are not allowed to diagnose, so it is essential to find an MD that can - you don't have to be treated by him or her. It is essential to find practitioners willing to listen to you. " Considering the money sought to be made personally from > > these treatments once FDA approval was given based on these clinical > > trials using unknowing human beings as their guinea pigs, who should > > we be most suspicious of exploiting us? " While it is true that the pharmaceutical industry calls the time a new drug hits the market " phase IV testing " , it is exactly what is going on in the alternative medicine field. Vitamin Shoppe is raking in the dough. One company's cramp bark is not as good as the next one's. How do we know? After spending $25.00 on one bottle and seeing no change - or even better, spending $75.00 on 3 because they'll tell you it takes longer. A balance between allopathic and alternative can be achieved. When you come right down to it, alternative should be the starting point, at a young age - basic nutrition, movement, cognitive awareness (where most disease starts - stress). Hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2002 Report Share Posted September 8, 2002 I think you will find that is what most of us do on this group. Get a diagnosis and then seek the relevant complimentary therapist to help us with the condition. Personally I would only go to complimentary therapists that have been recommended or I know personally. None of the ones that I have attended have ever 'knocked' allopathic dr's just the meds that are prescribed. If we are careful, the vits and mins that we try is a natural product and not synthetic. Personally speaking, I would have been taking 6 meds per day that could only do me more harm in the long term, just look at HRT which my dr told me I should take for the rest of my life - 12 years later, I am told that taking this particular pill for more than 5 years can cause breast cancer!! So much for allopathic dr's not misdiagnosing. A couple of months ago I had a minor car accident and sustained a fairly minor but painful injury to my shoulder. Attending the dr he told me that I had 'jarred my muscles' and he would prescribe me strong painkillers, which I declined. I had massage and then attended an osteopath - I am nearing the end of the treatment now but found out from the osteopath that I had actually sustained tendonitis which is extremely painful but needs proper treatment to get rid of permanently rather than masking it for a while with mind numbing painkillers. I knew the underlying cause as I do with most of my ailments. Heart disease is classed as a death sentence because the allopathic hierarchy tells us so - this is complete rubbish as I know at least one other on this group can tell and I can. By taking supplements, eating a totally different diet to that the dr tells me, I am gradually getting my cholesterol down, my bp down and unclogging my arteries and all without the aid of the deadly meds that cause secondary problems and ultimately an early death. I note that you are attending someone who will not prescribe meds to you which is excellent but as we all know, there are charlatans in all areas of complimentary medicine, I just wish that the powers that be would register all of them so that we have some sort of come back on the treatment we receive. Including many dr's who have been caught practising medicine in hospitals as well as group pratices who have never seen an exam paper let alone taken an exam for doctoring. Some of course are failed students and there should be a register of that can be searched for those. One bad experience does not entitle any of us to tar them all with the same brush. I am sure that your solicitor/ lawyer would be very interested in what has occured. I do hope that you are now on the road to recovery and know what causes your problems although there are some health issues, i.e. agoraphobia, that really cannot be diagnosed in that manner because it is not just one problem but many over years that causes it and I do know this from experience of a friend having the problem. Marianne > What my experience has been, and what I have seen with others, is > that in the holistic field, we spend endless amounts of time looking > for the underlying cause of a disease, trying this vitamin, that > supplement, this kind of massage - it's still all symptom control. > Naturopaths in most states are not allowed to diagnose, so it is > essential to find an MD that can - you don't have to be treated by > him or her. It is essential to find practitioners willing to listen > to you. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2002 Report Share Posted September 8, 2002 Gettingwell, marianne2406@a... wrote: " None of the ones that I have attended have ever 'knocked' allopathic dr's just the meds that are prescribed. " I did not say other practitioners knock other practitioners but rather that the complimentary physicians work well together with allopaths. It's the patients who are doing the knocking (and, well, Steve Barrett). People have to be careful with self-medicating, especially with " natural " supplements that affect neurotransmitters and hormones. If they are not needed, they can do more harm, like I found out with 5-HTP. A lot of the supplements are not " natural " either, but are synthetic. Pure Encapsulations gets their vitamins from Hoffman-LaRoche, a huge pharm. co. (actually, HLR just sold their vitamin division so it will be interesting to see who Pure will now use). There is a legislation, by the way, called the Health Freedom Act, the goal of which is to provide a patient bill of rights and to make practitioners accountable for their work. This would cover all non- licensed practitioners, like reiki practitioners, naturopaths of all training styles, aromatherapists, herbalists, etc. Info can be found on www.naturalhealth.org. I did not report my ND because two others in the state, who are reputable, would have been adversely affected by an investigation. A legal battle would just prolong the pain. Hope > > If we are careful, the vits and mins that we try is a natural product and not > synthetic. Personally speaking, I would have been taking 6 meds per day that > could only do me more harm in the long term, just look at HRT which my dr > told me I should take for the rest of my life - 12 years later, I am told > that taking this particular pill for more than 5 years can cause breast > cancer!! So much for allopathic dr's not misdiagnosing. > > A couple of months ago I had a minor car accident and sustained a fairly > minor but painful injury to my shoulder. Attending the dr he told me that I > had 'jarred my muscles' and he would prescribe me strong painkillers, which I > declined. I had massage and then attended an osteopath - I am nearing the > end of the treatment now but found out from the osteopath that I had actually > sustained tendonitis which is extremely painful but needs proper treatment to > get rid of permanently rather than masking it for a while with mind numbing > painkillers. I knew the underlying cause as I do with most of my ailments. > > Heart disease is classed as a death sentence because the allopathic hierarchy > tells us so - this is complete rubbish as I know at least one other on this > group can tell and I can. By taking supplements, eating a totally different > diet to that the dr tells me, I am gradually getting my cholesterol down, my > bp down and unclogging my arteries and all without the aid of the deadly meds > that cause secondary problems and ultimately an early death. > > I note that you are attending someone who will not prescribe meds to you > which is excellent but as we all know, there are charlatans in all areas of > complimentary medicine, I just wish that the powers that be would register > all of them so that we have some sort of come back on the treatment we > receive. Including many dr's who have been caught practising medicine in > hospitals as well as group pratices who have never seen an exam paper let > alone taken an exam for doctoring. Some of course are failed students and > there should be a register of that can be searched for those. > > One bad experience does not entitle any of us to tar them all with the same > brush. I am sure that your solicitor/ lawyer would be very interested in > what has occured. > > I do hope that you are now on the road to recovery and know what causes your > problems although there are some health issues, i.e. agoraphobia, that really > cannot be diagnosed in that manner because it is not just one problem but > many over years that causes it and I do know this from experience of a friend > having the problem. > > Marianne > > > > What my experience has been, and what I have seen with others, is > > that in the holistic field, we spend endless amounts of time looking > > for the underlying cause of a disease, trying this vitamin, that > > supplement, this kind of massage - it's still all symptom control. > > Naturopaths in most states are not allowed to diagnose, so it is > > essential to find an MD that can - you don't have to be treated by > > him or her. It is essential to find practitioners willing to listen > > to you. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 Dear Hope, You are right, we do not want to hear all this about how great allopathic medicine is and how bad nutritional therapy is. I for one know that to be untrue. If I wanted that, all I would have to do is turn on my TV set and watch all the commercials or listen to the latest marketing propaganda disguised as news by big pharma. This is a group who doesn't want what the pharmacutical groups have to offer, it is specifically geared for the alternatives. I for one have seen too much damage caused by unnatural chemical prescription drugs, over and over again. I strongly suspect your motives and your identity. Frank Gettingwell, " holistichell " <holistichell> wrote: > > " think we should look at everything that is not allopathic as > complimentary > > because there are some occasions (unfortunately) that we do need > allopathic > > help. " > You all probably do not want to hear from me. I nearly died > under the care of a Naturopathic Physician, a grad with a doctoral > degree from Bastyr. He misdiagnosed a condition as despression and > put me on 5-HTP for it, which actually caused a full-blown > depression. It also caused anorexia and such GI upset that I was > barely getting 600 calories a day. What he diagnosed as panic > attacks were actually profound hunger from lack of protein. There > has been a recent meta-analysis of the studies on 5-HTP, the > conclusion being that the effects on the gut were so strong that it > was impossible to do double-blind studies, and that most of the other > studies were not big enough to be meaningful. I have contacted > Michael Murray, ND, who wrote the book on 5-HTP, and all he sends is > a form letter stating I should buy his book. What is appalling is > that the other NDs in his state did not want to hear about my > experience. > > The treatment with the ND lasted about 1-1/2 years and during that > time he also broke some basic codes of professional ethics. Not only > did my health deteriorate, physically and emotionally, but so did my > bank account. I am now going to a cognitive-behavioral therapist who > is more about mind-body medicine than any practitioners I have met. > > I have been to acupuncturists, massage therapists, and other NDs. > None of them bash allopathic medicine the way I see people doing on > these forums. In fact, they both work well together. > > What my experience has been, and what I have seen with others, is > that in the holistic field, we spend endless amounts of time looking > for the underlying cause of a disease, trying this vitamin, that > supplement, this kind of massage - it's still all symptom control. > Naturopaths in most states are not allowed to diagnose, so it is > essential to find an MD that can - you don't have to be treated by > him or her. It is essential to find practitioners willing to listen > to you. > > " Considering the money sought to be made personally from > > > these treatments once FDA approval was given based on these > clinical > > > trials using unknowing human beings as their guinea pigs, who > should > > > we be most suspicious of exploiting us? " > While it is true that the pharmaceutical industry calls the time a > new drug hits the market " phase IV testing " , it is exactly what is > going on in the alternative medicine field. Vitamin Shoppe is raking > in the dough. One company's cramp bark is not as good as the next > one's. How do we know? After spending $25.00 on one bottle and > seeing no change - or even better, spending $75.00 on 3 because > they'll tell you it takes longer. > > A balance between allopathic and alternative can be achieved. When > you come right down to it, alternative should be the starting point, > at a young age - basic nutrition, movement, cognitive awareness > (where most disease starts - stress). > > Hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 Odd, I've been using 5htp and am experiencing less stomach distress than I usually have. It is extremely common for people to mistake the causes of their aches and pains. If you're taking 20 different nutritional supplements , or more, as well as a few pharmaceticals, OTC and prescribed; it's as common as it can be, to suppose that an ache or indigestion or a headache or whatever, is caused by this or that supplement or drug, even though you have no real evidence to support your hunch. You may be right or you may be wrong. It takes time to sort all this out. - " califpacific " <califpacific Monday, September 09, 2002 4:23 AM Re: Quackwatch > Dear Hope, > > You are right, we do not want to hear all this about how great > allopathic medicine is and how bad nutritional therapy is. I for one > know that to be untrue. > > If I wanted that, all I would have to do is turn on my TV set and > watch all the commercials or listen to the latest marketing > propaganda disguised as news by big pharma. > > This is a group who doesn't want what the pharmacutical groups have > to offer, it is specifically geared for the alternatives. I for one > have seen too much damage caused by unnatural chemical prescription > drugs, over and over again. > > I strongly suspect your motives and your identity. > > Frank > > > Gettingwell, " holistichell " <holistichell> wrote: > > > " think we should look at everything that is not allopathic as > > complimentary > > > because there are some occasions (unfortunately) that we do need > > allopathic > > > help. " > > You all probably do not want to hear from me. I nearly died > > under the care of a Naturopathic Physician, a grad with a doctoral > > degree from Bastyr. He misdiagnosed a condition as despression and > > put me on 5-HTP for it, which actually caused a full-blown > > depression. It also caused anorexia and such GI upset that I was > > barely getting 600 calories a day. What he diagnosed as panic > > attacks were actually profound hunger from lack of protein. There > > has been a recent meta-analysis of the studies on 5-HTP, the > > conclusion being that the effects on the gut were so strong that it > > was impossible to do double-blind studies, and that most of the > other > > studies were not big enough to be meaningful. I have contacted > > Michael Murray, ND, who wrote the book on 5-HTP, and all he sends > is > > a form letter stating I should buy his book. What is appalling is > > that the other NDs in his state did not want to hear about my > > experience. > > > > The treatment with the ND lasted about 1-1/2 years and during that > > time he also broke some basic codes of professional ethics. Not > only > > did my health deteriorate, physically and emotionally, but so did > my > > bank account. I am now going to a cognitive-behavioral therapist > who > > is more about mind-body medicine than any practitioners I have > met. > > > > I have been to acupuncturists, massage therapists, and other NDs. > > None of them bash allopathic medicine the way I see people doing on > > these forums. In fact, they both work well together. > > > > What my experience has been, and what I have seen with others, is > > that in the holistic field, we spend endless amounts of time > looking > > for the underlying cause of a disease, trying this vitamin, that > > supplement, this kind of massage - it's still all symptom control. > > Naturopaths in most states are not allowed to diagnose, so it is > > essential to find an MD that can - you don't have to be treated by > > him or her. It is essential to find practitioners willing to > listen > > to you. > > > > " Considering the money sought to be made personally from > > > > these treatments once FDA approval was given based on these > > clinical > > > > trials using unknowing human beings as their guinea pigs, who > > should > > > > we be most suspicious of exploiting us? " > > While it is true that the pharmaceutical industry calls the time > a > > new drug hits the market " phase IV testing " , it is exactly what is > > going on in the alternative medicine field. Vitamin Shoppe is > raking > > in the dough. One company's cramp bark is not as good as the next > > one's. How do we know? After spending $25.00 on one bottle and > > seeing no change - or even better, spending $75.00 on 3 because > > they'll tell you it takes longer. > > > > A balance between allopathic and alternative can be achieved. When > > you come right down to it, alternative should be the starting > point, > > at a young age - basic nutrition, movement, cognitive awareness > > (where most disease starts - stress). > > > > Hope > > > > Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health > and well being. > > list or archives: Gettingwell > > ........ Gettingwell- > post............. Gettingwell > digest form...... Gettingwell-digest > individual emails Gettingwell-normal > no email......... Gettingwell-nomail > moderator ....... Gettingwell-owner > ...... Gettingwell- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.