Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 Z'ev I read through parts of the 50 so pages of Wiseman's " naming of medicinals " Is the general consensus now in the States when writing journal articles or assignments at TCM colleges that one puts the pin yin followed by the latin eg mu dan pi (Moutan Radicis,Cortex) as opposed to mu dan pi (Cortex Moutan Radicis) as originally in Bensky. I ask as I am making a program so that when I type the pin yin of a herb it will automatically put in the latin and character. What I'm asking is that do all the Fructus,Radix, Folium etc appear as the last word in the latin . Its a lot of typing to make this program so I want to get it right. Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 Michael wrote Hopefully by " making a program " you are using the " autotext " or " autocorrect " features already available on most word processors as they are fully capable of doing this very simply. If you (or anyone else)are (is) not aware of these, email me seperately and I would be glad to explain them to you. Yes Michael please email and explain. I will go with the " standard " of the Australian journal that Clavey is involved with. They suggest to write eg Dang Shen (in Italics and capitals) followed by In brackets (Codonopsis Pilosulae, Radix ) . The program when finished will speed up writing articles etc .It will automatcally convert pin yin name of the herb to italics, add the latin and characters . I can always write gan cao but to remember how to spell the latin is another thing and adding all this stuff in takes as long as writing the article!!. I am also including all alternatives eg Zhi Gan Cao ...honey fried Glyc....etc I am up to about 800 herbs as many of them are eg salt fried ,charred etc .... if anyone has a list of additional herbs eg not listed in Bensky please email to me. Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 David, <Is there any movement to standardize and link Chinese common names to botannical names? We really need to do this in order to avoid situations like this in the future. Excellent point. Without term standards, we are susceptible to a wide range of misunderstandings and subsequent troubles. This applies not only to botannical terms but to Chinese medical terminology in general. This broader scope is precisely the initiatve in which people like Nigel Wiseman and Feng Ye are engaged. The position, actions, and rationale thereof that underlies this initiative has been painstakingly delineated, and anybody who wishes to can simply go to the Paradigm website and check it out. From time to time there arises a so-called debate that touches on various aspects of this activity. But for the most part, the opposing points of view content themelves with simply stating their displeasure about this or that individual term selection. What has happened in the so-called " translation debates " is that by concentrating on term selection -- whose English term is easier on the ears -- the point that the creation of a reference terminology -- a standard -- must cover the full range of professional reference issues for the very reason of clairity has been lost. By concentrating on those few terms with the most public attention, " excess " and so forth, the fact that we must address a large and complex body of knowledge where there is a considerable need for precision gets buried. I have asked again and again for presentations of rationale(s) that argues against this approach. As time goes on I begin to suspect that there simply are no cogent arguments against it, which is of course why I come to the position in the first place. As students and practitioners of Chinese medicine we should not ignore its fundamental strategic advice to act before trouble ensues. We do not want to behave like people who only start to forge weapons once they find themselves on the field of battle or like those who only start to dig a well after they feel thirsty. Whoever comes too late meets with misfortune. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 Ken Rose wrote: > As time goes on I begin to suspect that there simply are > no cogent arguments against it, which is of course why > I come to the position in the first place. Our brains have two lobes. Cogent arguments only applies to one of them. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Attachment: vcard [not shown] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 > > <Is there any movement to standardize and link Chinese common names to > botannical names? We really need to do this in order to avoid situations > like this in the future. Nigel Wiseman has proposed just this idea, and has written an article on the subject available at the paradigm-pubs.com website. Look under the reference menu, pull up Nigel Wiseman's " The Naming of Chinese Medicinals in English'. It is a great article, and covers all the bases on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 , " heiko " <heiko@l...> wrote: > > I ask as I am making a program so that when I type the pin yin of a herb it will automatically put in the latin and character. Heiko, I like that idea! Hopefully by " making a program " you are using the " autotext " or " autocorrect " features already available on most word processors as they are fully capable of doing this very simply. If you (or anyone else)are (is) not aware of these, email me seperately and I would be glad to explain them to you. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 on 12/11/00 7:36 AM, heiko at heiko wrote: > Z'ev > I read through parts of the 50 so pages of Wiseman's " naming of medicinals " > Is the general consensus now in the States when writing journal articles or > assignments at TCM colleges that one puts the pin yin followed by the latin > eg mu dan pi (Moutan Radicis,Cortex) > as opposed to mu dan pi (Cortex Moutan Radicis) as originally in Bensky. > I ask as I am making a program so that when I type the pin yin of a herb it > will automatically put in the latin and character. What I'm asking is that > do all the Fructus,Radix, Folium etc appear as the last word in the latin . > Its a lot of typing to make this program so I want to get it right. Heiko, I'm not sure. . . .I'll look into this. I don't know if there is any standardization on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 Z'ev, Does anyone know the advantage to using the " Pharmeceutical name " rather than the true Latin (Genus species) name for a plant? Why should Chinese herbalists use a different name for a plant than botanists? This is always confusing to us field plant people, botanists, and wild crafters. For instance, the species name of Mu dan pi is Paeonia suffruticosa. Describing the plant part makes sense (cortex, folium, etc.) I describe Mu dan pi as " Paeonia suffruticosa (cortex) " . It seems we may need to standardize our already " standardized " plant names. Dan may have some ideas on this. David wrote: > on 12/11/00 7:36 AM, heiko at heiko wrote: > > > Z'ev > > I read through parts of the 50 so pages of Wiseman's " naming of medicinals " > > Is the general consensus now in the States when writing journal articles or > > assignments at TCM colleges that one puts the pin yin followed by the latin > > eg mu dan pi (Moutan Radicis,Cortex) > > as opposed to mu dan pi (Cortex Moutan Radicis) as originally in Bensky. > > I ask as I am making a program so that when I type the pin yin of a herb it > > will automatically put in the latin and character. What I'm asking is that > > do all the Fructus,Radix, Folium etc appear as the last word in the latin . > > Its a lot of typing to make this program so I want to get it right. > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > -- ************************* David Leonard, L.Ac. Medicine at your Feet 808.573.3600 http://www.medicineatyourfeet.com Herbal Apprenticeship Program and Distance Learning Healing Vacations / Hawaiian Adventure Programs Advanced Herbal Training for Acupuncturists Acupuncture, Bodywork, & Qigong (Chinese Yoga) Subscribe to our newsletter: http://www.medicineatyourfeet.com/.html Join our discussion group: herbalmedicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 Michael Buyze wrote: > > , " heiko " <heiko@l...> wrote: > > > I ask as I am making a program so that when I type the pin yin of > a herb it will automatically put in the latin and character. > > Heiko, > > I like that idea! Yeah, me too! You might want to set it up so that it can be modified too, since some prefer pharmaceutical terms and others the botanical, etc... -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Attachment: vcard [not shown] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 Perhaps you could explain that to the list. Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. " Each friend represents a world in us, a world possibly not born until they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born. " -- Anais Nin On Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:25:00 -0000 " Michael Buyze " >Hopefully by " making a program " you are using the " autotext " >or " autocorrect " features already available on most word processors >as they are fully capable of doing this very simply. > >If you (or anyone else)are (is) not aware of these, email me >seperately and I would be glad to explain them to you. > >Michael ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 , " heiko " <heiko@l...> wrote: > Michael wrote > Hopefully by " making a program " you are using the " autotext " > or " autocorrect " features already available on most word processors > as they are fully capable of doing this very simply. > > If you (or anyone else)are (is) not aware of these, email me > seperately and I would be glad to explain them to you. > > Yes Michael please email and explain. > I don't want to belabor this since this list is not designed to be a helpdesk, but I think it will save people alot of time, so here goes: I use MS Word 97 at home, so I will speak to that but as I recall, Wordperfect has a nearly identical feature. First, get the desired result on the screen by typing it or pulling up a document with the phrase in it. e.g. Dang Shen (Codonopsis Pilosulae, Radix). Make sure it is in the format you want (italics, etc.) Then select (highlight) the phrase. (If you have a list, you must do them one herb at a time). Next, in the " tools " pull-down menu, click on Autocorrect... The phrase you have selected should appear in the " with " box on the right side of the screen. Click in the " Replace " box and type the pin yin e.g. Dang Shen. Then click the circle in front of " Formatted Text " and click the " Add " button. The " replace as you type " box should be checked. Click " OK " and you are all set. Alternatively, you can go use autotext in a similar manner (i.e. type what you want, select it and go to Tools, Autocorrect, click the " Autotext " tab and click the " Add " button. By doing this, word will complete the phrase as soon as it recoginzes it in a little yellow message window next to your cursor. You accept what appears by pushing enter. (To sample this, just begin typing the word " January " in a document and you will see autotext in action). If you have further questions, email me directly at mbuyze and I will try to explain further. Hope this is helpful, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 on 1/7/01 11:01 AM, David Leonard at drkitsch wrote: > Z'ev, > > Does anyone know the advantage to using the " Pharmeceutical name " rather than > the true Latin (Genus species) name for a plant? Why should Chinese > herbalists use a different name for a plant than botanists? This is always > confusing to us field plant people, botanists, and wild > crafters. For instance, the species name of Mu dan pi is Paeonia suffruticosa. > Describing the plant part makes sense (cortex, folium, etc.) I describe Mu dan > pi as " Paeonia suffruticosa (cortex) " . It seems we may need to standardize our > already " standardized " plant names. > > Dan may have some ideas on this. > > David I think ideally a database should include: Chinese name(s), pinyin, common English name, pharmaceutical name, AND botanical name in separate columns. As you say, field plant people, those who actually grow or wildcraft medicinal material, need references that include the genus/species model. Let's try to be as complete as possible. Heiko, I hope this helps you out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2001 Report Share Posted January 8, 2001 thanks Michael- that was helpful. Cara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2001 Report Share Posted January 8, 2001 Al, > > Our brains have two lobes. Cogent arguments only applies to one of them. OK. Here's a question for you to distribute among your two lobes: Which one of them wrote that? In fact, our brains are thought of as having several " lobes: " parietal lobes, occiptal lobes, temporal lobes, etc. Brains do have two hemispheres which divide certain cognitive tasks, evidently. I'm not an expert on such matters, as I can see that you are not, by virtue of your misuse of the word " lobe " to mean " hemisphere. " Perhaps the difference between lobes and hemispheres is another issue of term standardization that doesn't pertain or matter to you. As an acupuncturist, there isn't all that pressing a need for you to differentiate between these two neurological concepts. But I doubt that you would want anybody who doesn't know the difference to be mucking about inside your skull. Have I scurtizined your words too closely here? You know, that's all I've got to go on. I, too, am challenged by posting on this list. But being dispensed with by flip dismissals such as yours is not really the challenge that concerns me most. It's simply the challenge of understanding where people are at and what they mean when they say what they say. Here are some words that Prof. Paul Unschuld has written on the subject of the nomenclature of traditional Chinese medicine. We were, after all, talking about terminology, standardization, understanding, and what happens when we suffer breakdowns of these aspects of the transmission of Chinese medicine. " One of the basic difficulties in interpreting traditional Chinese medical terms and concepts today in a Western language results directly from this syncretistic train of Chinese medical history. Identical terms were often employed to denote very different concepts, and at no time was a standardization attempted which might have led to a dominating or stringent interpretation of even the core concepts by a majority of dogmatists and practitioners. " He is referring to the time period of the first unification of the Chinese empire, i.e. the Qin dynasty, circa 2nd century B.C.E. Here is an array of complexities by which either hemisphere of the brain can become either delighted or thoroughly mesmerized. It seems to me that in order to foster real understanding of Chinese medicine in English, we have to prepare ourselves to use our whole brains. So all the lobes that deal with cogent arguments are just going to have to knuckle down and get to work. I am not, by the way, at all interested in seeing you in a dunce cap. I would much prefer to see you as well as all the practicing acupuncturists in the world wearing laurel wreaths. That is why I bother trying to sort these issues out. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2001 Report Share Posted January 8, 2001 yulong wrote: > > Al, > > > > > Our brains have two lobes. Cogent arguments only applies to one of > them. > > OK. Here's a question for you to > distribute among your two lobes: > Which one of them wrote that? My heart lobe. Ken, I don't live in my head. I have trouble discussing things that exist only in the intellect. The entire discussion surrounding the terminology issues are all up the head. I was trying to get you out of this arena and begin to discuss these issues from another perspective. I am perhaps out of my element on this list. > In fact, our brains are thought of as having > several " lobes: " parietal lobes, occiptal lobes, > temporal lobes, etc. Brains do have two hemispheres > which divide certain cognitive tasks, evidently. Correct, hemisphere, my typo. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Attachment: vcard [not shown] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 In a message dated 7/14/02 5:07:02 PM, Gettingwell writes: << Anybody else use vinegar to clean produce? >> I do. I drink the apple cider vinegar (one tablespoon daily) and wash my veggies with white distilled vinegar and water (diluted of course) I hear the vinegar leaches out all the impurities. Who knows for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 I use vinegar for almost everything! salads, washing, I clean around the dog food dishes with white vinegar and water (half/half) and that's all I use... I rinse the dogs with ACV after every bath. When I don't use it, they break out in 'something'. :-) BonnieB In a message dated 7/14/2002 9:08:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DaRocksMom writes: << In a message dated 7/14/02 5:07:02 PM, Gettingwell writes: << Anybody else use vinegar to clean produce? >> I do. I drink the apple cider vinegar (one tablespoon daily) and wash my veggies with white distilled vinegar and water (diluted of course) I hear the vinegar leaches out all the impurities. Who knows for sure. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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