Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 In a message dated 3/25/02 1:56:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, wayne writes: > The spotty, runty, mineral-deficient, sickly produce promoted as health > giving organic fruit and vegetables is a sham. Well, I don't know where he has seen this type of organic produce, but in our COF produce co-op everything looks AAA+. And tastes divine. You can actually *taste* the difference. In the years that I have been in our co-op, I have never seen the above-mentioned quality of COF produce. Organic farmers solve the same problems as conventional farmers, but without relying on synthetic chemicals. Cover crops, lime, liquid fish mulch etc to enrich the soil and balance the ph, higher rates of cancer in farm hands come to my mind. Those are just the few things I as a total lay person come up with... Admittedly, I don't have the deeper knowledge to truly compare. Gabriela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 I agree with you and would certainly not put my money to the 'runty' produce stated - all that I purchase is in peak condition and tastes so much better than I have had the pleasure of eating for years. marianne > Well, I don't know where he has seen this type of organic produce, but in > our > COF produce co-op everything looks AAA+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 - <naturalradical Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:55 AM Re: The Organic Dilemma > In a message dated 3/25/02 1:56:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, wayne > writes: > > > > The spotty, runty, mineral-deficient, sickly produce promoted as health > > giving organic fruit and vegetables is a sham. > > Well, I don't know where he has seen this type of organic produce, but in our > COF produce co-op everything looks AAA+. And tastes divine. You can actually > *taste* the difference. In the years that I have been in our co-op, I have > never seen the above-mentioned quality of COF produce. > Organic farmers solve the same problems as conventional farmers, but without > relying on synthetic chemicals. Cover crops, lime, liquid fish mulch etc to > enrich the soil and balance the ph, higher rates of cancer in farm hands come > to my mind. Those are just the few things I as a total lay person come up > with... Admittedly, I don't have the deeper knowledge to truly compare. > > Gabriela I concur. It is quite possible to grow organic produce without the use of pesticides & herbicides. Here in New Orleans, WholeFoods has very nice fruits & veggies. And I can also taste the difference in taste between commercial & organic produce. Herbicides & Pesticides are toxic -- not something I want on my food! Alobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 These points are well made and to my knowledge correct. I would like to pose a caveat though and that is considering the idiocy of some in the ag world using some substances that definitively should not be used when a consumer such as a patient or client of mine, or even me at times goes to the market he / she has two choices buy an organic product that is likely not to be poisonous in any way or buy a non organic product that they have no clue what has been done to it. I am not saying the auto conclusion is the organic is superior however I am saying it is less likely to be harmful. Certainly the best places to obtain produce is from local known inteligent good steward farmers, however practically for some that's not always an option. I have no contention at all for what you've posted I just wanted to add some practical realities for many consumers. Sincerely, Dr. Michael Marasco,BS,DC Cincinnati, Oh Gettingwell, Wayne Fugitt <wayne@f...> wrote: > A few months ago we had a number of messages relative to organic produce. > > I classify it with the vegetarian diet. It can be accomplished, but the > majority of the people have neither the knowledge or determination to > accomplish the near impossible feat. > > My growing combines the best of both worlds. Only a scientist with > unlimited funds could grow better produce with better flavor than I do if > he was using organic methods. Very likely the produce I grow is superior > in flavor and nutrients to that of most organic produce. > > Main article below by research scientist, Graeme Platt > > ================== > > Three cheers to Ray for daring to be so forthright and honest in respect of > his query - Just what do you mean when you say ŒOrganic'? > > I too have never been able to fathom the sheer illogical statements made by > so many of the protagonists - yes I still love nature and natural things but > the art of living, (I would have thought) was in understanding and thereby > living even better lives! > > Some years ago one of our customers dropped a couple of pages onto my desk > which I found extremely helpful because the author (who I believe is a > research scientist by the name of Graeme Platt) seemed to me to explain in > relatively simple terms why so many of the Œorganic¹ claims are based upon > emotion and, completely overlook the basic facts of life - If in fact the > following text is attributable to Graeme then I do hope he will not mind it > being reproduced here for the benefit of the list members and I would like > to thank him for what I would hope will help quite a few in their quest for > understanding. > > Rob Smith posted the article below. > > Here is the text........ > > > Just before Christmas I received a phone call from a lady who was not at all > happy. She had heard I had not been flattering in my assessment of the > quality of crops being produced by biodynamic and organic growers. > > The call came not long after I had been to advise an organic grower who had > spent over $40,000 on a crop that was a total failure. > > Instead of a harvestable crop he finished up with a few paddocks of weeds > all properly bio registered at great expense. > > No weed, chemical fertilizer or toxic spray was ever to be used on his land. > > While these noble goals are great in theory, reality is a different matter. > > He had failed on three counts. First, the soil wasn't rich enough in > balanced nutrients required for the crop. Second, very few of the seeds he > planted germinated and third, a sea of weeds beat those that did germinate. > > A biodynamic guru had advised him to apply chemical fertilizer when nobody > was around as a way out of his predicament. > > Both farming and horticulture have made some dreadful mistakes in the use of > toxic mercuric compounds as fungicides and stable compounds such as DDT and > Dieldrin as insecticides. > > These tragedies are sound reason for promoting and understanding the > principles of elemental science and not a case for rejecting them. > > The spotty, runty, mineral-deficient, sickly produce promoted as health > giving organic fruit and vegetables is a sham. > > The whole purpose of producing food is to provide a rich source of balanced > essential elements in the form of digestible, carbohydrate and protein. > > Starving crops of essential minerals professing it is in interest in human > health and well being is nonsense. > > Many organic growers survive only because the land they are growing their > crops on was fed minerals by three generations of farmers and > horticulturists before them. > > Vegetables are made up of 24 essential elements, all of which are inorganic. > It is ridiculous to claim any one carrot can be any more or less organic > than another. > > In third form science I learned that all things in the universe were made up > of inorganic mineral atoms, which modern science has confirmed. Every object > from our planet to the far reaches of space including moon rocks, space > ships, carrots and cucumbers consist of inorganic mineral atoms. > > The various atoms are bonded by positive-negative attraction to form the > compounds of the universe, i.e. two atoms of hydrogen bonded with one atom > of oxygen forms hydrogen oxide or water! > > All compounds are organic - All compounds are made up of inorganic elements > bonded with electrons. Some are very stable and last for eternity. Others, > bound together with carbon and hydrogen atoms are very unstable, decompose > very quickly and are called organic. > > Whether a carrot is called organic or inorganic may appear semantic. > > Promoting organic things as healthy, and inorganic as a menace to good > health, is deceiving. > > We cannot eat or drink organic compounds such as aviation gasoline, > newspapers, rubber tyres, botulism, anthrax, ergot, the aids virus, methane, > coal or cyanide. > > Neither can they be promoted as health giving breakfast products on the > strength of being organic. > > We eat carrots, wheat, apricots and potatoes and drink apple juice because > the balance of elements are in an unstable, digestible form. > > Plants require 24 essential elements for metabolic processes. Animals > require 26. Fifteen of the 26 are regularly absent or not available in the > correct proportions in the soil in which our food is grown. > > Organic growers place great importance on the fact that all elements are > toxic and use this excuse as justification for banning them. > > All 26 elements can kill you! You can kill yourself with any one of the 26 > essential elements. There is no such thing as a toxin‹there are only toxic > doses. > > Healthy living is not possible without all 26 elements. > > The toxicity of any one element is diminished by the presence of the others > in the correct proportion. > > Describing essential minerals as artificial fertilizer just because they can > be purchased by the sack is play on words. All minerals are natural and, > with the exception of nuclear fission and fusion, mineral atoms cannot be > manufactured, destroyed or in any way changed, only recycled and bonded into > new compounds. > > Fertilizers such as super phosphate are processed to ensure they are > unstable and readily available as plant food. > > The magic troika is hydrogen, carbon and oxygen. Using the energy from the > sun and photosynthesis these three elements are synthesized into unstable > organic carbohydrates in the form of sugars and starches. > > The essential elements in soils are never balanced. A balance is achieved by > plants accumulating those elements they require in the correct proportions. > > The reason compost made from decomposing living things is such a wonderful > aid is because it contains the right balance in an unstable form that is > freely available to be utilized again by living plants. > > While compost is the ultimate in garden fertilizers it has two weaknesses. > First, it contains only the minerals it was made from and second, its use is > impractical on a very large scale. It is almost impossible to feed a 100 > hectare paddock and even if you could the concept of raiding 1,000 hectares > to feed it is a flawed concept. > > If there is little or no potassium, phosphate, magnesium, zinc, calcium, > copper, cobalt, sodium, sulfur or selenium in the soil it will need to be > applied to achieve healthy crops. > > When the crop is sold the essential elements are removed and must be > replaced. They can be replaced in a supplementary form as fertilizer. > > The aim of horticulture and farming is to produce quality! food containing > the full complement of essential elements as unstable protein and > carbohydrates so they may be used by the body. > > This same philosophy should be utilized in the manufacture of fungicides, > insecticides and herbicides. > > Synthetic formulations manufactured from essential elements can be perfectly > safe but they must be unstable, have a very short half life (about 24 hours) > and then decompose releasing their elements as plant and animal food. > > Bordeaux, one of the first fungicides widely used and a compound of water, > copper-sulfate and calcium-carbonate was formulated to control botrytis in > French vineyards. > > When Bordeaux breaks down,the six elements (hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, > calcium, copper and sulphur) are released into the environment and are > available as plant and animal food. > > Poor health is a direct result of mineral deficiencies. The effort people go > to starve themselves of these is truly astonishing. The purpose of eating > food is to obtain the elements and compounds required for healthy living and > this is only possible through eating properly fed plant and animal products. > > The health of a nation is in the hands of its gardeners and farmers. People > can remain healthy only if the land which is used to produce their food is > also healthy. > > > Definitions > > € Inorganic elements: all the elements of the periodic table. > > € Organic compounds: Groups of elements bound together into compounds with > carbon and hydrogen atoms. > > € Atoms: a single element of the periodic table. > > € Essential elements: those elements of the periodic table that are the > building blocks or catalysts required by living things. > > € Minerals: any naturally occurring solid element or compounds of elements > of the periodic table at normal atmospheric pressure and heat. > > € Inorganic compounds: groups of elements of the periodic table bound > together into compounds that are not organic. > > € Synthetic compounds: any group of elements bonded together by man. > > € Stable compound: those that do not decompose at normal atmospheric > pressure, or with heat and light. > > € Unstable compounds: Compounds that decompose at normal atmospheric > pressure, heat and light. > > ============== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 Evening Gabriela, >Well, I don't know where he has seen this type of organic produce, but in our >COF produce co-op everything looks AAA+. And tastes divine. Of course I know everything you said is true, in some geographic locations. The message I posted came from another country. New Zealand, I think, and the guy who wrote it was from Germany. Location does make a difference. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 --- Marianne, It is especially rewarding when we know the source and can partake with a certain sense of security in knowing that there are no foreign genes added. Our produce certainly is in A+ condition, but in my opinion one must consider the source first. The sense of peace and well-being that comes in knowing all is well and that there is nothing included there that nature did not intend is the most important factor, at least in my estimation. JoAnn Guest joguest Friendsforhealthnaturally http://canceranswer.homestead.com/AIM.html marianne2406@a... wrote: > I agree with you and would certainly not put my money to the 'runty' produce > stated - all that I purchase is in peak condition and tastes so much better > than I have had the pleasure of eating for years. > marianne > > COF produce co-op everything looks AAA+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 And once we have found a genuine source, we must keep going back so that they stay in business and we can continue to get the best possible nourishment for our bodies - I agree with you JoAnn. Marianne > The sense of peace and well-being that comes in knowing all is well > and that there is nothing included there that nature did not intend > is the most important factor, at least in my estimation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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