Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

Interesting bit of research from Tuffs University where they measured the

anti-oxidant capability of various natural

anti-oxidant rich foods against commercial anti-oxidants:

 

=========================

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/qtr/q499/hn499.htm

Chances are you'll get more antioxidant protection from eating fresh fruits and

vegetables than from taking natural

product supplements claiming to be potent antioxidants.

 

That's according to analyses of 46 commercial preparations by the ORAC assay.

 

ORAC—short for " oxygen radical absorbance capacity " —measures the ability of a

chemical or biological sample to disarm

oxygen free radicals that can cause wear and tear on the body's DNA and cell

parts.

 

ARS researchers found the total antioxidant capacity of 40 berry-based

supplements ranged from 16 to 3,985 ORAC units—a

249-fold difference.

 

The supplements tested included bilberry, cranberry, chokeberry, and elderberry

extracts.

 

Six other antioxidant products having grape seed or pine bark extracts or

pycnogenol ranged from 16 to 8,392 ORAC

units—a 525-fold difference.

 

The findings remind consumers that there are no industry standards for the

antioxidant capacity of natural product

supplements and thus little assurance of a high-quality product.

 

The researchers point out that a single serving of fresh or freshly cooked

fruits or vegetables supplies an average of

300 to 400 ORAC units.

 

Many fruits and vegetables—such as berries, plums, oranges, leafy greens, and

beets—provide much higher antioxidant

levels.

 

By contrast, 28 of the 40 berry extracts tested and one of the 6 other products

wouldn't provide 300 ORAC units in a

day's suggested intake.

 

Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University,

Boston, MA

Ronald L. Prior/Guohua Cao, (617) 556-3311/(617) 556-3141, prior/

cao_am

========================

 

Here are the ORAC results for 100 g (3 1/2 oz) of various foods:

 

Prunes 5,770

Raisins 2,830

Blueberries 2,400

Blackberries 2,036

Kale 1,770

Strawberries 1,540

Spinach 1,260

Raspberries 1,220

Brussels Sprouts 980

Plums 949

Alfalfa Sprouts 930

Broccoli Flowers 890

Beets 840

Oranges 750

Red Grapes 739

Red Bell Pepper 710

Onions 450

Corn 400

 

In my morning smoothie I use:

 

1/2 cup blueberries (75 g & 1,800 Orac units)

1/2 cup strawberries (72 g & 1,108 Orac units)

10 prunes (84 g & 4,846 Orac units)

1/2 banana

1 kiwi fruit

1 tablespoon ground flax (Omega 3 LNA & fiber)

3 tablespoons whey protein powder

1/2 cup coconut milk or 1/2 cup soy milk with 1 tablespoon VCNO.

 

615 cals, 7,754 Orac units, fantastic taste, all natural, nutrient / enzyme rich

& not a bad breakfast!

 

Detailed nutrient analysis:

 

Dr. Walford's Interactive Diet Planner

 

Calories 615.71 __cal

Protein 7.781 __gm

Total Fat 25.746 __gm

Sat. Fat 21.607 __gm

Mono. Fat 1.454 __gm

Poly. Fat 0.849 __gm

Carbs 102.69 __gm

Fiber 25.894 __gm

Chol 0.261 __mg

Vit. A 1946.9 __IU

Vit. B6 0.785 __mg

Vit. B12 0.217 __mcg

Vit. C 134.08 __mg

Vit. E 30.187 __mg

Thiamine 0.238 __mg

Folacin 78.784 __mcg

Riboflavin 0.496 __mg

Niacin 3.592 __mg

Panto 1.732 __mg

Calcium 279.64 __mg

Copper 0.878 __mg

Iron 6.811 __mg

Magnesium 157.82 __mg

Manganese 1.666 __mg

Phosphorus 355.29 __mg

Potassium 1743.5 __mg

Selenium 11.662 __mcg

Sodium 111.71 __mg

Zinc 2.024 __mg

Isoleucine 0.275 __gm

Threonine 0.285 __gm

Tryptophan 0.117 __gm

Cystine 0.093 __gm

Methionine 0.093 __gm

Valine 0.356 __gm

Leucine 0.531 __gm

Phenyl 0.321 __gm

Lysine 0.441 __gm

Tyrosine 0.198 __gm

 

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/12/02 9:09:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,

powerofbelieving writes:

 

> Eat fresh fruit and vegetables to get anti-oxidants???? what a joke that

is,

> so many people say just eat your fruits an vegetables and everything will

be

> o.k, ya right.

 

Oranges, for example, lose 50% of their vitamin C within the first four hours

of being picked. The ones in the store were probably picked weeks ago. But

then they might not have had much to begin with, along with most other

nutrients, considering modern growing practices.

 

Starris

[Guest guest]

Eat fresh fruit and vegetables to get anti-oxidants???? what a joke that is, so

many people say just eat your fruits an vegetables and everything will be o.k,

ya right. No mater what, you never know what is good in the grocerie store

anymore, even if it says organic. It is frustrating to know what to do when it

comes to eating, the only safe way is to grow your own fruits and vegetables.

Kevin Gagnon

Greg Watson <gowatson wrote: Hi All,

 

Interesting bit of research from Tuffs University where they measured the

anti-oxidant capability of various natural

anti-oxidant rich foods against commercial anti-oxidants:

 

=========================

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/qtr/q499/hn499.htm

Chances are you'll get more antioxidant protection from eating fresh fruits and

vegetables than from taking natural

product supplements claiming to be potent antioxidants.

 

That's according to analyses of 46 commercial preparations by the ORAC assay.

 

ORAC—short for " oxygen radical absorbance capacity " —measures the ability of a

chemical or biological sample to disarm

oxygen free radicals that can cause wear and tear on the body's DNA and cell

parts.

 

ARS researchers found the total antioxidant capacity of 40 berry-based

supplements ranged from 16 to 3,985 ORAC units—a

249-fold difference.

 

The supplements tested included bilberry, cranberry, chokeberry, and elderberry

extracts.

 

Six other antioxidant products having grape seed or pine bark extracts or

pycnogenol ranged from 16 to 8,392 ORAC

units—a 525-fold difference.

 

The findings remind consumers that there are no industry standards for the

antioxidant capacity of natural product

supplements and thus little assurance of a high-quality product.

 

The researchers point out that a single serving of fresh or freshly cooked

fruits or vegetables supplies an average of

300 to 400 ORAC units.

 

Many fruits and vegetables—such as berries, plums, oranges, leafy greens, and

beets—provide much higher antioxidant

levels.

 

By contrast, 28 of the 40 berry extracts tested and one of the 6 other products

wouldn't provide 300 ORAC units in a

day's suggested intake.

 

Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University,

Boston, MA

Ronald L. Prior/Guohua Cao, (617) 556-3311/(617) 556-3141, prior/

cao_am

========================

 

Here are the ORAC results for 100 g (3 1/2 oz) of various foods:

 

Prunes 5,770

Raisins 2,830

Blueberries 2,400

Blackberries 2,036

Kale 1,770

Strawberries 1,540

Spinach 1,260

Raspberries 1,220

Brussels Sprouts 980

Plums 949

Alfalfa Sprouts 930

Broccoli Flowers 890

Beets 840

Oranges 750

Red Grapes 739

Red Bell Pepper 710

Onions 450

Corn 400

 

In my morning smoothie I use:

 

1/2 cup blueberries (75 g & 1,800 Orac units)

1/2 cup strawberries (72 g & 1,108 Orac units)

10 prunes (84 g & 4,846 Orac units)

1/2 banana

1 kiwi fruit

1 tablespoon ground flax (Omega 3 LNA & fiber)

3 tablespoons whey protein powder

1/2 cup coconut milk or 1/2 cup soy milk with 1 tablespoon VCNO.

 

615 cals, 7,754 Orac units, fantastic taste, all natural, nutrient / enzyme rich

& not a bad breakfast!

 

Detailed nutrient analysis:

 

Dr. Walford's Interactive Diet Planner

 

Calories 615.71 __cal

Protein 7.781 __gm

Total Fat 25.746 __gm

Sat. Fat 21.607 __gm

Mono. Fat 1.454 __gm

Poly. Fat 0.849 __gm

Carbs 102.69 __gm

Fiber 25.894 __gm

Chol 0.261 __mg

Vit. A 1946.9 __IU

Vit. B6 0.785 __mg

Vit. B12 0.217 __mcg

Vit. C 134.08 __mg

Vit. E 30.187 __mg

Thiamine 0.238 __mg

Folacin 78.784 __mcg

Riboflavin 0.496 __mg

Niacin 3.592 __mg

Panto 1.732 __mg

Calcium 279.64 __mg

Copper 0.878 __mg

Iron 6.811 __mg

Magnesium 157.82 __mg

Manganese 1.666 __mg

Phosphorus 355.29 __mg

Potassium 1743.5 __mg

Selenium 11.662 __mcg

Sodium 111.71 __mg

Zinc 2.024 __mg

Isoleucine 0.275 __gm

Threonine 0.285 __gm

Tryptophan 0.117 __gm

Cystine 0.093 __gm

Methionine 0.093 __gm

Valine 0.356 __gm

Leucine 0.531 __gm

Phenyl 0.321 __gm

Lysine 0.441 __gm

Tyrosine 0.198 __gm

 

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

 

 

 

Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health

and well being.

 

To learn more about the Gettingwell group,

Subscription and list archives are at:

Gettingwell

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

" Kevin Gagnon " <powerofbelieving

 

Wednesday, February 13, 2002 3:38 PM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

 

Eat fresh fruit and vegetables to get anti-oxidants???? what a joke that is, so

many people say just eat your fruits an

vegetables and everything will be o.k, ya right. No mater what, you never know

what is good in the grocerie store

anymore, even if it says organic. It is frustrating to know what to do when it

comes to eating, the only safe way is to

grow your own fruits and vegetables.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

With respect it is not as bad as you may think.

 

Both the USDA food database and the ORAC data are from normal commercial foods.

 

I would be more concerned about what is in or not in the pills they sell.

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

[Guest guest]

-

<Starrisg

 

Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:03 PM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

> Oranges, for example, lose 50% of their vitamin C within the first four hours

> of being picked. The ones in the store were probably picked weeks ago. But

> then they might not have had much to begin with, along with most other

> nutrients, considering modern growing practices.

 

Hi Starris,

 

Both the USDA food database and the ORAC data are based on normal commercial

foods. I would be more concerned about

what is in or not in supplement pills.

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/13/02 12:06:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,

gowatson writes:

 

> Both the USDA food database and the ORAC data are from normal commercial

> foods.

 

Greg,

Do these govt databases take into account the detrimental effects of

processing and continually deteriorating soil conditions? Do they change

regularly to reflect these and other differences? Or are they just estimates

of what is expected to be in foods, without much basis in reality? Where

would I find a " normal commercial food " ? How would that compare to what's

available at my local store?

 

There are just too many variables for the database information to have any

meaning. Plus the stuff in the store is probably at least two weeks older

than the foods tested by the database testers.

 

Nothing is what it appears to be, LOL. We're doomed. We better hope we can

keep buying supplements.

 

I remember when lettuce went bad in 2-3 days. Now it stays fresh looking

longer than 2-3 *weeks*! It stays that way because it's enzymes have been

destroyed for the sake of shelf-life. I wonder what that does to it's

nutritional value.

 

Starris

[Guest guest]

Hello Greg,

You say you would trust wether the foods are good over wether supplements have

what they say is in them, I personaly use supplements and trust where they come

from. Greg you if you read more about supplements you will learn that some

company's maybe very few are pharmecutical quality, not only cause they want it

that way, but because they have to in order to stand the pressure from goverment

hear in Canada. There is a organization in Canada that will test company's and

only the ones who are of high quality standard will be able to stay on the

market, basicaly it's what you call regulation, they just started this, it will

be interesting what will happen in the next 5 years. Pack to the topic of Food

Greg, GMO's, isn't that in most of the fruits and vegetables???? And from what

I hear they farms that labeled NO GMO's where forced to take that part of the

label. Also from what I learn about organic is that you can't trust groceries

store's for that. If there is any Canadiens in this group, I know there is a

farm in Toronto that are doing hydroponics growing of fruits and vegetables all

organic, does anyone know of this type of growing? I seen there vegetables,

they look so nicely grown and they where grown with only natural fertaliser.

Well Greg, you may know more about this topic then i, so really I just may learn

from what you know. Thanks.

Kevin Gagnon

Greg Watson <gowatson wrote: -

<Starrisg

 

Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:03 PM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

> Oranges, for example, lose 50% of their vitamin C within the first four hours

> of being picked. The ones in the store were probably picked weeks ago. But

> then they might not have had much to begin with, along with most other

> nutrients, considering modern growing practices.

 

Hi Starris,

 

Both the USDA food database and the ORAC data are based on normal commercial

foods. I would be more concerned about

what is in or not in supplement pills.

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Another product in local stores that I have never seen go bad is cookies, they

can last a life time now I think (-: (-:they get hard and that is it, but you

take a natural cookie from a health food store and you have to eat it early or

it will go bad. But to the topic of grocerie stores, your right, cause we are

doomed (-: (-: I was give 76 acres of land from my parents, my goal is to have a

farm there to grow my own fruits and vegetables, but I'm not sure if the

goverment will let me grow and not add what they want you to add today. I heard

a funny story from a friend who knows a farmer that injects the cows on his farm

cause that is required now in order to market the meat, well anyways he takes

some cows away for himself, one that he doesn't inject (-: (-: I was told

another funny comment about supplements on another group, not that I say he is

wrong or right but that I disagree based on my own beliefs. He said that Genetic

Engineering is going to take over the supplement industry. Who is actually going

to trust Genetic Engineering, the ones that do will have to accept that they are

rats in a testing lab called the world. I agree with Greg also about supplements

and worrying about what is in them and quality, but that dosen't mean there

isn't truth in some company's, I'm sure there are many truthful company's out

there, to bad that some just make up the bad rep. Well thanks for you comments

Starris, you make sense to me.

 

 

Kevin Gagnon

 

 

Starrisg wrote: In a message dated 2/13/02 12:06:24 AM Pacific

Standard Time,

gowatson writes:

 

> Both the USDA food database and the ORAC data are from normal commercial

> foods.

 

Greg,

Do these govt databases take into account the detrimental effects of

processing and continually deteriorating soil conditions? Do they change

regularly to reflect these and other differences? Or are they just estimates

of what is expected to be in foods, without much basis in reality? Where

would I find a " normal commercial food " ? How would that compare to what's

available at my local store?

 

There are just too many variables for the database information to have any

meaning. Plus the stuff in the store is probably at least two weeks older

than the foods tested by the database testers.

 

Nothing is what it appears to be, LOL. We're doomed. We better hope we can

keep buying supplements.

 

I remember when lettuce went bad in 2-3 days. Now it stays fresh looking

longer than 2-3 *weeks*! It stays that way because it's enzymes have been

destroyed for the sake of shelf-life. I wonder what that does to it's

nutritional value.

 

Starris

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

" Kevin Gagnon " <powerofbelieving

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 12:35 AM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

>

> Hello Greg,

> You say you would trust wether the foods are good over wether

> supplements have what they say is in them, I personaly use

> supplements and trust where they come from.

 

** I also use supplements but I'm moving to more food based anti-oxidants.

 

> Greg you if you read more about supplements you will learn that

> some company's maybe very few are pharmecutical quality, not

> only cause they want it that way, but because they have to in

> order to stand the pressure from goverment hear in Canada.

 

** If you check out my web site (link below) you will see I do know quite a lot

about supplements and also the

regulatory process they go through. However mistakes in formulation can occur

but for this to happen by mother nature

is very difficult as the plant would die.

 

> There is a organization in Canada that will test company's and

> only the ones who are of high quality standard will be able to

> stay on the market, basicaly it's what you call regulation, they

> just started this, it will be interesting what will happen in the

> next 5 years.

 

** With respect to the testers and the formulators, do they do random retail

checks? I for one would not put a lot of

faith in one off testing. Sort of like auditior who bid to do the books and

part of the bidding process is what result

the company wants. Ever hear of Eron?

 

> Back to the topic of Food Greg, GMO's, isn't that in most of the fruits and

vegetables????

 

** In Australia, NO. Even if they were, these GM genes are amino acid strings,

which are broken down in digestion and

will not convey any bioactivity into your body. The real danger is that the

weeds will get the weed spray resistant

genes in the GM plants and laugh at the sprays, etc..

 

> And from what I hear they farms that labeled NO GMO's where forced to take

that part of the label.

 

** In Australia, GM foods MUST be labeled as such.

 

> Also from what I learn about organic is that you can't trust groceries store's

for that.

 

** If you can't trust your grocery store / food grower, what makes you so sure

you can trust your supplement supplier??

 

If there is any Canadiens in this group, I know there is a farm in Toronto that

are doing hydroponics growing of fruits

and vegetables all organic, does anyone know of this type of growing? I seen

there vegetables, they look so nicely

grown and they where grown with only natural fertaliser.

 

** So why can you trust these growers over the more traditional ones? I think

you give short meaasure to your farmers.

They do really want to grow good food. That is why they are on the land. They

love farming and are not into it for the

money alone. Farming is a culture and not a business. Give your farmers a

break. They do try to grow the best food

they can.

 

Well Greg, you may know more about this topic then i, so really I just may learn

from what you know. Thanks.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

I feel much safer trusting a multi-generation on the land farmer for my food

that a multi-national supplement maker.

 

When it is all said and done, we do need to eat food and have done so for

millions of years. Somehow we survived

without using supplements. That said I do use supplements but only to get

benefits I can't get from food. Also the use

of supplements should NEVER be an excuse or to make up for a bad diet.

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

[Guest guest]

-

<Starrisg

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:42 AM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

> Greg,

> Do these govt databases take into account the detrimental effects of

> processing and continually deteriorating soil conditions? Do they change

> regularly to reflect these and other differences? Or are they just estimates

> of what is expected to be in foods, without much basis in reality? Where

> would I find a " normal commercial food " ? How would that compare to what's

> available at my local store?

 

They are considered the average of what you eat off your plate.

 

As to deteriorating soil conditions, I know Aussie farmers are doing a lot of

biodiversity work with worms, beetles and

other soil improving agents to get their soils back to better than 100 years

ago.

 

Farming is a culture, not a business as such. Most farmers are multi

generational and work the land cause it is in

their blood and growing bad food is not why they get up early every morning and

go to bed late at night. I think too

many supplement pushers have sold a very incorrect image of farming and farmers.

 

> There are just too many variables for the database information to have any

> meaning. Plus the stuff in the store is probably at least two weeks older

> than the foods tested by the database testers.

 

Like I said, the USDA data is based on what you would eat off your plate. Sure

some anit-oxidant vits do decline after

picking but mineral and other vit levels don't really drop much.

 

> Nothing is what it appears to be, LOL. We're doomed. We better hope we can

> keep buying supplements.

 

You must be kidding. 100 years from now, they will still be finding new

nutrient in natural food.

 

> I remember when lettuce went bad in 2-3 days. Now it stays fresh looking

> longer than 2-3 *weeks*! It stays that way because it's enzymes have been

> destroyed for the sake of shelf-life. I wonder what that does to it's

> nutritional value.

 

Hi Starris,

 

The enzymes in plants are there to break apart the cell on death. They are not

there to to the job your digestive

enzymes do, which is to totally break down the total plant structure into

individual fatty acids, glucose molecules and

amino acids, plus release the minerals and vits. This is a much more through

breakdown than the relative weak cell

destruction enzymes in the plant. Even if the enzymes are inhibited, they will

still breakdown in your gut to

individuall amino acids.

 

I think you under rate the food you can buy and if fresh veggies are what you

seek, buy from a local fruit & veggie

market or buy frozen.

 

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

[Guest guest]

-

" Kevin Gagnon " <powerofbelieving

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:23 AM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

I was give 76 acres of land from my parents, my goal is to have a farm there to

grow my own fruits and vegetables, but

I'm not sure if the goverment will let me grow and not add what they want you to

add today.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

Stop you how?

 

Grow your fruit and veggies. Gte your process certified Organic. Lots of folks

will buy from your.

 

I wish I had 76 acres.......................

 

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

[Guest guest]

Hello Greg,

I understand what you mean, I think thought that it's different in your country

when it comes to farmers, cause farmers hear are bound to the rules that the

goverment is setting for them, the GMO's either they use GMO's or they don't

don't label that the product don't have it. Some farmers refused to use the

GMO's hear in Canada and they labeled NO GMO's but that all changed when the

other farmers argued there case and won. Maybe I should think of another

country to live in (-: (-: Thanks for your input Greg.

Kevin Gagnon

Greg Watson <gowatson wrote: -

" Kevin Gagnon " <powerofbelieving

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 12:35 AM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

>

> Hello Greg,

> You say you would trust wether the foods are good over wether

> supplements have what they say is in them, I personaly use

> supplements and trust where they come from.

 

** I also use supplements but I'm moving to more food based anti-oxidants.

 

> Greg you if you read more about supplements you will learn that

> some company's maybe very few are pharmecutical quality, not

> only cause they want it that way, but because they have to in

> order to stand the pressure from goverment hear in Canada.

 

** If you check out my web site (link below) you will see I do know quite a lot

about supplements and also the

regulatory process they go through. However mistakes in formulation can occur

but for this to happen by mother nature

is very difficult as the plant would die.

 

> There is a organization in Canada that will test company's and

> only the ones who are of high quality standard will be able to

> stay on the market, basicaly it's what you call regulation, they

> just started this, it will be interesting what will happen in the

> next 5 years.

 

** With respect to the testers and the formulators, do they do random retail

checks? I for one would not put a lot of

faith in one off testing. Sort of like auditior who bid to do the books and

part of the bidding process is what result

the company wants. Ever hear of Eron?

 

> Back to the topic of Food Greg, GMO's, isn't that in most of the fruits and

vegetables????

 

** In Australia, NO. Even if they were, these GM genes are amino acid strings,

which are broken down in digestion and

will not convey any bioactivity into your body. The real danger is that the

weeds will get the weed spray resistant

genes in the GM plants and laugh at the sprays, etc..

 

> And from what I hear they farms that labeled NO GMO's where forced to take

that part of the label.

 

** In Australia, GM foods MUST be labeled as such.

 

> Also from what I learn about organic is that you can't trust groceries store's

for that.

 

** If you can't trust your grocery store / food grower, what makes you so sure

you can trust your supplement supplier??

 

If there is any Canadiens in this group, I know there is a farm in Toronto that

are doing hydroponics growing of fruits

and vegetables all organic, does anyone know of this type of growing? I seen

there vegetables, they look so nicely

grown and they where grown with only natural fertaliser.

 

** So why can you trust these growers over the more traditional ones? I think

you give short meaasure to your farmers.

They do really want to grow good food. That is why they are on the land. They

love farming and are not into it for the

money alone. Farming is a culture and not a business. Give your farmers a

break. They do try to grow the best food

they can.

 

Well Greg, you may know more about this topic then i, so really I just may learn

from what you know. Thanks.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

I feel much safer trusting a multi-generation on the land farmer for my food

that a multi-national supplement maker.

 

When it is all said and done, we do need to eat food and have done so for

millions of years. Somehow we survived

without using supplements. That said I do use supplements but only to get

benefits I can't get from food. Also the use

of supplements should NEVER be an excuse or to make up for a bad diet.

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Greg,

<<I think too

many supplement pushers have sold a very incorrect image of farming and

farmers.>>

 

That may be the case for Aussie, but in Canada they gave their own bad name for

allowing the GMO's. Personally in Canada we have the farmers that are in it for

the money now, it's one of the main reason why they are allowing the GMOs in my

opinion. The GMOs mean better crop to them, when they can learn about the

natural approaches to improving soil and crop, from what I read from you the

farmers in Aussie have been doing this, maybe Canada farmers can learn if they

try to learn about natural ways to grow crop, but for now I guess we are all

just rats in the testing lab called the world.

 

Kevin Gagnon

 

 

 

Greg Watson <gowatson wrote: -

<Starrisg

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:42 AM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

> Greg,

> Do these govt databases take into account the detrimental effects of

> processing and continually deteriorating soil conditions? Do they change

> regularly to reflect these and other differences? Or are they just estimates

> of what is expected to be in foods, without much basis in reality? Where

> would I find a " normal commercial food " ? How would that compare to what's

> available at my local store?

 

They are considered the average of what you eat off your plate.

 

As to deteriorating soil conditions, I know Aussie farmers are doing a lot of

biodiversity work with worms, beetles and

other soil improving agents to get their soils back to better than 100 years

ago.

 

Farming is a culture, not a business as such. Most farmers are multi

generational and work the land cause it is in

their blood and growing bad food is not why they get up early every morning and

go to bed late at night. I think too

many supplement pushers have sold a very incorrect image of farming and farmers.

 

> There are just too many variables for the database information to have any

> meaning. Plus the stuff in the store is probably at least two weeks older

> than the foods tested by the database testers.

 

Like I said, the USDA data is based on what you would eat off your plate. Sure

some anit-oxidant vits do decline after

picking but mineral and other vit levels don't really drop much.

 

> Nothing is what it appears to be, LOL. We're doomed. We better hope we can

> keep buying supplements.

 

You must be kidding. 100 years from now, they will still be finding new

nutrient in natural food.

 

> I remember when lettuce went bad in 2-3 days. Now it stays fresh looking

> longer than 2-3 *weeks*! It stays that way because it's enzymes have been

> destroyed for the sake of shelf-life. I wonder what that does to it's

> nutritional value.

 

Hi Starris,

 

The enzymes in plants are there to break apart the cell on death. They are not

there to to the job your digestive

enzymes do, which is to totally break down the total plant structure into

individual fatty acids, glucose molecules and

amino acids, plus release the minerals and vits. This is a much more through

breakdown than the relative weak cell

destruction enzymes in the plant. Even if the enzymes are inhibited, they will

still breakdown in your gut to

individuall amino acids.

 

I think you under rate the food you can buy and if fresh veggies are what you

seek, buy from a local fruit & veggie

market or buy frozen.

 

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

" Kevin Gagnon " <powerofbelieving

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 2:39 PM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

>

> Hello Greg,

> I understand what you mean, I think thought that it's different in your

country when it comes to farmers, cause

farmers hear are bound to the rules that the goverment is setting for them, the

GMO's either they use GMO's or they

don't don't label that the product don't have it. Some farmers refused to use

the GMO's hear in Canada and they labeled

NO GMO's but that all changed when the other farmers argued there case and won.

Maybe I should think of another country

to live in (-: (-: Thanks for your input Greg.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

In Oz, food with anything above trace levels MUST indicate on the ingredients

panel that the food is GM such as:

 

Contains: Water, soy (gm), sugar, salt, etc.

 

I don't fear GM foods as GMing plants has been going on for a long time. They

used to call it grafting, etc. Any GM

genes will be turned into amino acids by the protein digestive enzymes in the

gut.

 

The problems I see are more commercial as some GMed plants have been made to

produce sterile seeds that the farmer can't

use for reseeding next year. This is VERY dangerous as our food chain then

beings in the biochemical plant which makes

the seeds and if that plant goes, so to does our food chain.

 

I grow most of our veggies in a 10 mtr (30') x 10 (30') mtr plot.

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

[Guest guest]

<<The problems I see are more commercial as some GMed plants have been made to

produce sterile seeds that the farmer can't

use for reseeding next year. This is VERY dangerous as our food chain then

beings in the biochemical plant which makes

the seeds and if that plant goes, so to does our food chain.>>

 

Well this is happening in Canada and I believe in the U.S the seed is being

altered, not good at all.

 

Kevin Gagnon

 

 

Greg Watson <gowatson wrote: -

" Kevin Gagnon " <powerofbelieving

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 2:39 PM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

>

> Hello Greg,

> I understand what you mean, I think thought that it's different in your

country when it comes to farmers, cause

farmers hear are bound to the rules that the goverment is setting for them, the

GMO's either they use GMO's or they

don't don't label that the product don't have it. Some farmers refused to use

the GMO's hear in Canada and they labeled

NO GMO's but that all changed when the other farmers argued there case and won.

Maybe I should think of another country

to live in (-: (-: Thanks for your input Greg.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

In Oz, food with anything above trace levels MUST indicate on the ingredients

panel that the food is GM such as:

 

Contains: Water, soy (gm), sugar, salt, etc.

 

I don't fear GM foods as GMing plants has been going on for a long time. They

used to call it grafting, etc. Any GM

genes will be turned into amino acids by the protein digestive enzymes in the

gut.

 

The problems I see are more commercial as some GMed plants have been made to

produce sterile seeds that the farmer can't

use for reseeding next year. This is VERY dangerous as our food chain then

beings in the biochemical plant which makes

the seeds and if that plant goes, so to does our food chain.

 

I grow most of our veggies in a 10 mtr (30') x 10 (30') mtr plot.

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

" Kevin Gagnon " <powerofbelieving

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:09 PM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

>

> <<The problems I see are more commercial as some GMed plants have been made

to produce sterile seeds that the farmer

can't

> use for reseeding next year. This is VERY dangerous as our food chain then

beings in the biochemical plant which

makes

> the seeds and if that plant goes, so to does our food chain.>>

>

> Well this is happening in Canada and I believe in the U.S the seed is being

altered, not good at all.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

Better get the government to build higher walls around OZ!

 

I've got a 1/2 acre block just next to the yellow brick road and only a short

stroll from the gates of the emerald city.

Tin men, lions, scare crows and small girls with dogs go past daily. What to

swap?

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

[Guest guest]

Hello Greg,

You lost me (-: (-: (-:

Kevin Gagnon

Greg Watson <gowatson wrote: -

" Kevin Gagnon " <powerofbelieving

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:09 PM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

 

>

> <<The problems I see are more commercial as some GMed plants have been made

to produce sterile seeds that the farmer

can't

> use for reseeding next year. This is VERY dangerous as our food chain then

beings in the biochemical plant which

makes

> the seeds and if that plant goes, so to does our food chain.>>

>

> Well this is happening in Canada and I believe in the U.S the seed is being

altered, not good at all.

 

Hi Kevin,

 

Better get the government to build higher walls around OZ!

 

I've got a 1/2 acre block just next to the yellow brick road and only a short

stroll from the gates of the emerald city.

Tin men, lions, scare crows and small girls with dogs go past daily. What to

swap?

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

" Kevin Gagnon " <powerofbelieving

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:34 PM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

> Hello Greg,

> You lost me (-: (-: (-:

 

Australia > OZ > Wizard of OZ > Yellow Brick Road > Emerald City > Dorthy, Toto,

Lion, Scare Cow, Tin Man.

 

Most Australians know they live in a special country, a lucky country, who some

call OZ.

 

> I've got a 1/2 acre block just next to the yellow brick road and only a short

stroll from the gates of the emerald

city.

> Tin men, lions, scare crows and small girls with dogs go past daily. What to

swap?

 

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au

[Guest guest]

Greg, I know just what you mean, visiting our son last October, we did not

want to come home and cannot wait to get back there again - can I swap places

with you please???

Marianne

 

 

> Most Australians know they live in a special country, a lucky country, who

> some call OZ.

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Greg,

I'm moving to OZ...............(-: (-: (-:

Kevin Gagnon

Greg Watson <gowatson wrote: -

" Kevin Gagnon " <powerofbelieving

 

Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:34 PM

Re: Anti-Oxidants, Natural or Commercial??

 

> Hello Greg,

> You lost me (-: (-: (-:

 

Australia > OZ > Wizard of OZ > Yellow Brick Road > Emerald City > Dorthy, Toto,

Lion, Scare Cow, Tin Man.

 

Most Australians know they live in a special country, a lucky country, who some

call OZ.

 

> I've got a 1/2 acre block just next to the yellow brick road and only a short

stroll from the gates of the emerald

city.

> Tin men, lions, scare crows and small girls with dogs go past daily. What to

swap?

 

========================

Good health & long life,

Greg Watson,

http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au