Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 A lot of talk of combining / comparing Western and TCM. The _tongue_ seems to be a good place to start Methinks it would be good to have an online database with pictures and discussions of the different presentations and classifications. I am cross posting my request to several newsgroups. I hope that is not a violation of web etiquette. Images of oral cancer http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/ImageQs/13_01Q.html GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Cards/GeographicTongue.html click on the individual images to enlarge Link to research (for example) GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic664.htm USC's home page offers a study guide Study Guides O R A L P A T H O L O G Y http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/index.html Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA. Acupuncture is a jab well done www.HappyHerbalist.com -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.280 / Virus Database: 264.12.2 - Release 10/22/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Standardizing terms referring to tongues would be very useful, but there are a few technical hurdles to consider. Printed color tongue atlases are very useful learning tools - the reason they are so expensive though is that creating high quality color reproductions in printing is expensive. If the color balance has been carefully controlled, the standard of reference that is created will be accurate and the same for all readers. That is not true with computer displays - each model will have a slightly different characteristics, many of which can be set by the user (brightness, contrast, gamma correction, etc.). Having maintained the website for RMHI for many years, I am constantly dismayed to see how colors that look fine on one computer may look horrid on another, depending upon the settings. I've had several ideas to deal with this, so that students can send me tongue photos to display on the website for others to view. One idea I've considered is to get standardized color samples, say from Benjamin Moore Paints, and choose a range of colors that one might expect to see in a tongue, send out these samples to students, then have them include these colors beneath an individual's tongue as it is being photographed. The other students can then compare their own standardized set of colors to the version that appears on their monitor, then make adjustments to their monitor's color characteristics to match. Any other ideas? ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/ Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org > " Ed Kasper LAc " <eddy >RE: Tongue Images > >A lot of talk of combining / comparing Western and TCM. >The _tongue_ seems to be a good place to start > >Methinks it would be good to have an online database with pictures and >discussions of the different presentations and classifications. I am cross >posting my request to several newsgroups. I hope that is not a violation of >web etiquette. > >Images of oral cancer >http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/ImageQs/13_01Q.html > >GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE >http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Cards/GeographicTongue.html >click on the individual images to enlarge > >Link to research (for example) GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE >http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic664.htm > >USC's home page offers a study guide >Study Guides O R A L P A T H O L O G Y >http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/index.html > > >Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA. >Acupuncture is a jab well done >www.HappyHerbalist.com >-- ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/ Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 A lot of talk of combining / comparing Western and TCM. The _tongue_ seems to be a good place to start Methinks it would be good to have an online database with pictures and discussions of the different presentations and classifications. I am cross posting my request to several newsgroups. I hope that is not a violation of web etiquette. Images of oral cancer http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/ImageQs/13_01Q.html GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Cards/GeographicTongue.html click on the individual images to enlarge Link to research (for example) GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic664.htm USC's home page offers a study guide Study Guides O R A L P A T H O L O G Y http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/index.html Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA. Acupuncture is a jab well done www.HappyHerbalist.com -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.280 / Virus Database: 264.12.2 - Release 10/22/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 On Oct 26, 2004, at 4:29 PM, rw2 wrote: > The other students can then compare their own standardized set of > colors to the version that appears on their monitor, then make > adjustments to their monitor's color characteristics to match. > > Any other ideas? I think that our eyes will compensate to any monitor's color balance provided we get a sense of what a normal pink is. Once you can define (visually) how normal looks, and retain that on the page with any images of pathological tongues, you've got it made in the shade. That may not enable students to determine if they have a healthy pink tongue in their own mouths, but they can begin to get that sense after seeing enough tongues and knowing what to look for. I've been playing around with tongues on computers for quite a few years and agree that one really can't know what color you're really looking at without some sort of scale to compare it to, but it has to be on the same monitor. -al. -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. -Adlai Stevenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 A lot of talk of combining / comparing Western and TCM. The _tongue_ seems to be a good place to start Methinks it would be good to have an online database with pictures and discussions of the different presentations and classifications. I am cross posting my request to several newsgroups. I hope that is not a violation of web etiquette. Images of oral cancer http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/ImageQs/13_01Q.html GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Cards/GeographicTongue.html click on the individual images to enlarge Link to research (for example) GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic664.htm USC's home page offers a study guide Study Guides O R A L P A T H O L O G Y http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/index.html Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA. Acupuncture is a jab well done www.HappyHerbalist.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Roger I think you are on to it. The thing to do is first establish the benchmark. Your suggestion of using Benjamin Moore Paints, adds ease and understanding. Anyone wanting to contribute an image of a tongue can easily obtain the reference while those viewing the image can easily obtain the same reference chart. I know I had trouble with Maciocia's photos when I was studying for my exam. This way even when reviewing old photos Maciocia would simply specify the Benjamin Moore's chart number. A difficult cause in any case as I also recall students peering into the patient patiently obliging and not being able to agree. One is not only seeking the subtle shades of differences but key irregularities - the beginning stage of transformation. As highlighted in the links below: picture of a well developed cancerous tongue are contrasted with a tongue in the beginning stages. That would be a good time to refer out (with recommendations). Early detection is critical. Pulse diagnosis and Iridology are another method of early detection but are not recognized as such in a western mind. Tongue diagnosis is. Tongue diagnosis is a hallmark of both TCM and Western. Tongue diagnosis is the doorway which may allow a dialogue between Western Med and TCM on a very high professional level. There is no need to change any language, codes or billing procedures. The patient, M.D. and the TCM specialist may all work together. Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA. Message: 22 Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:29:44 -0600 rw2 RE: Tongue Images Standardizing terms referring to tongues would be very useful, but there are a few technical hurdles to consider. Printed color tongue atlases are very useful learning tools - the reason they are so expensive though is that creating high quality color reproductions in printing is expensive. If the color balance has been carefully controlled, the standard of reference that is created will be accurate and the same for all readers. That is not true with computer displays - each model will have a slightly different characteristics, many of which can be set by the user (brightness, contrast, gamma correction, etc.). Having maintained the website for RMHI for many years, I am constantly dismayed to see how colors that look fine on one computer may look horrid on another, depending upon the settings. I've had several ideas to deal with this, so that students can send me tongue photos to display on the website for others to view. One idea I've considered is to get standardized color samples, say from Benjamin Moore Paints, and choose a range of colors that one might expect to see in a tongue, send out these samples to students, then have them include these colors beneath an individual's tongue as it is being photographed. The other students can then compare their own standardized set of colors to the version that appears on their monitor, then make adjustments to their monitor's color characteristics to match. Any other ideas? ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/ Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org > " Ed Kasper LAc " <eddy >RE: Tongue Images > >A lot of talk of combining / comparing Western and TCM. >The _tongue_ seems to be a good place to start > >Methinks it would be good to have an online database with pictures and >discussions of the different presentations and classifications. I am cross >posting my request to several newsgroups. I hope that is not a violation of >web etiquette. > >Images of oral cancer >http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/ImageQs/13_01Q.html > >GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE >http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Cards/GeographicTongue.html >click on the individual images to enlarge > >Link to research (for example) GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE >http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic664.htm > >USC's home page offers a study guide >Study Guides O R A L P A T H O L O G Y >http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/index.html > > >Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA. >Acupuncture is a jab well done >www.HappyHerbalist.com -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.280 / Virus Database: 264.12.2 - Release 10/22/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Hi all I am new to this forum so be easy on me. The subject your reffering to is the TCM forum about that book Unification of WM & TCM, I have been following a strong discussion on the subject for weeks. I have just got the book they have been talking about so will let you know what I think. Yes I agree the tounge would be an interesting place to start, a pretty complicated issue however and dont know if they will ever solve it. The book im reading this guy claims the author has solved it, have only read the first chapter, sounds good but still rather skeptical. Talk to you all soon. Cheers Kenneth acupuncture , " happyherbalist2001 " <edkasper@p...> wrote: > > A lot of talk of combining / comparing Western and TCM. > The _tongue_ seems to be a good place to start > > Methinks it would be good to have an online database with pictures > and discussions of the different presentations and classifications. I > am cross posting my request to several newsgroups. I hope that is not > a violation of web etiquette. > > Images of oral cancer > http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/ImageQs/13_01Q.html > > GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE > http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Cards/GeographicTongue.html > click on the individual images to enlarge > > Link to research (for example) GEOGRAPHIC TONGUE > http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic664.htm > > USC's home page offers a study guide > Study Guides O R A L P A T H O L O G Y > http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/Guides/index.html > > > Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA. > Acupuncture is a jab well done > www.HappyHerbalist.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 See also: http://www.giovanni-maciocia.com/tonguegallery/default.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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