Updates

[Guest guest]

I think the consequences of one's interpretations of the effects of the herband the resulting behaviors they display play a major role in the long-term>>>>This is called nocibo and is true for any medicine we take.

 

I am interested to know what people do clinically w/ these observations. For example Zev if you see a scattered pulse how do you incorporate it in the treatment if you think it is due to pot smocking.

I have a few patients complaining of musculoskeletal pains, cervical and low back, that smock daily and in several of them the tissues feel older to me than their true age. The muscle feel fatty (soft w/ decrease tone) as seen in older patients. I have no idee if it is due to pot smacking or not. The few times I have seen them stoned they were constantly stretching their bodies, in a somewhat restless way.

Since my pulse taking skills are not as developed as some of you guys I have to trust what I feel in the tissues but again I am not sure if what I feel is due to the pot.

Any ides out their

Alon

 

-

cha

Sunday, December 24, 2000 9:46 PM

updates

Seasons GreetingsWell, Chinese Herbal Medicine egroup began a little over 18 months agowith about 6 members. Now we have just about 300, of whom maybe 50 arelocated outside the US. Since there are about 11000 licensedacupuncturists and perhaps 5,000 students in the US, this represents alittle over 1.5% of the US professionals in this field. It has been myobservation in seven years of teaching at three different acupuncturecolleges, that perhaps less than 20% of the typical student body has aprimary interest in herbology by the time they graduate. In otherwords, far fewer practitioners seem inclined to tailoring prescriptionsfor their patients versus the much larger number who prefer to useprepared formula of various forms or even prefer western herbs orvitamin therapy.So perhaps about 8% of American practitioners and TCM college studentsinvolved in the field with a serious interest in herbology are now groupmembers. We are also possibly one of the largest in a a singlefield of alternative medicine that is limited strictly to graduate andprofessional level members. We are particularly well represented inCalifornia, Illinois, Oregon, Washington, New York, Colorado andFlorida. I know a lot of heartland states do not have herbs in theirscope of practice, perhaps this is why such states areunderrepresented. I'd like to attract some additional members fromAsia, Europe and Australia to round things out some more, too.Several members have commented privately to me recently that ourdiscussion group has evolved (self-organized?) into a very importantmedium for exchange in our field. We should all be pleased with thelevel of discussion we generate and with the civility (for the mostpart) of our dialogues.Happy Holidays and all that stuff :-)--DirectorChinese Herbal Medicinehttp://www..orgChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

Now we have just about 300, of whom maybe 50 arelocated outside the US.

>>>That is great but I wander why so few of us share their idees

Alon

 

-

cha

Sunday, December 24, 2000 9:46 PM

updates

Seasons GreetingsWell, Chinese Herbal Medicine egroup began a little over 18 months agowith about 6 members. Now we have just about 300, of whom maybe 50 arelocated outside the US. Since there are about 11000 licensedacupuncturists and perhaps 5,000 students in the US, this represents alittle over 1.5% of the US professionals in this field. It has been myobservation in seven years of teaching at three different acupuncturecolleges, that perhaps less than 20% of the typical student body has aprimary interest in herbology by the time they graduate. In otherwords, far fewer practitioners seem inclined to tailoring prescriptionsfor their patients versus the much larger number who prefer to useprepared formula of various forms or even prefer western herbs orvitamin therapy.So perhaps about 8% of American practitioners and TCM college studentsinvolved in the field with a serious interest in herbology are now groupmembers. We are also possibly one of the largest in a a singlefield of alternative medicine that is limited strictly to graduate andprofessional level members. We are particularly well represented inCalifornia, Illinois, Oregon, Washington, New York, Colorado andFlorida. I know a lot of heartland states do not have herbs in theirscope of practice, perhaps this is why such states areunderrepresented. I'd like to attract some additional members fromAsia, Europe and Australia to round things out some more, too.Several members have commented privately to me recently that ourdiscussion group has evolved (self-organized?) into a very importantmedium for exchange in our field. We should all be pleased with thelevel of discussion we generate and with the civility (for the mostpart) of our dialogues.Happy Holidays and all that stuff :-)--DirectorChinese Herbal Medicinehttp://www..orgChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

on 12/25/00 9:04 AM, ALON MARCUS at alonmarcus wrote:

 

 

 

(Alon) I am interested to know what people do clinically w/ these observations. For example Zev if you see a scattered pulse how do you incorporate it in the treatment if you think it is due to pot smocking.

 

(Z'ev) I basically inform the person that the smoking is influencing their pulse, and that they need to cut down. Some aspects of a person's condition need to be treated by modifying patient behavior. I don't like to treat people with acupuncture when they are stoned very much, it is not so helpful. For patients using therapeutic marijuana (as in pain or chemo), I try to supplement the qi and blood, and balance the channels as much as possible.

 

(Alon) I have a few patients complaining of musculoskeletal pains, cervical and low back, that smock daily and in several of them the tissues feel older to me than their true age. The muscle feel fatty (soft w/ decrease tone) as seen in older patients. I have no idee if it is due to pot smacking or not. The few times I have seen them stoned they were constantly stretching their bodies, in a somewhat restless way.

 

(Z'ev) A few of my old friends who were Vietnam vets told me that when they smoked, the local Vietnamese people said to them " why do you want to smoke that so much, it just makes you get old faster " . Perhaps the wasting of yin and qi contributes to this phenomenon. Some of my dope-smoking friends who have been doing it regularly for years seemed to have aged faster as well.

 

Z'ev Roseobnerg

[Guest guest]

Kudos to you Todd for the vision to get this list where it is. I

really did not see the full potential when I got involved.

 

Regarding representation on this list: Something I have noticed with

regard to acupuncture students (also applies to graduates I would

think) is the low percentage of " internet active " people. I have

promoted this group heavily in my pharmacology class at the Midwest

COM in Racine and as of now I know of only one person who has

responded.

 

I know I could not afford to have a computer at home until a year

after graduating. I know now how much information I deprived my self

of by not being internet active during school! The Midwest College

has made an attempt to provide access to the internet in the library,

but seems to be too few and outdated computers and inconvenient(when

students are on campus, they are in class).

 

Are the students at other schools in a similar situation?

 

, wrote:

> Seasons Greetings

>

> Well, Chinese Herbal Medicine egroup began a little over 18 months

ago

> with about 6 members. Now we have just about 300, of whom maybe 50

are

> located outside the US. Since there are about 11000 licensed

> acupuncturists and perhaps 5,000 students in the US, this

represents a

> little over 1.5% of the US professionals in this field. It has

been my

> observation in seven years of teaching at three different

acupuncture

> colleges, that perhaps less than 20% of the typical student body

has a

> primary interest in herbology by the time they graduate. In other

> words, far fewer practitioners seem inclined to tailoring

prescriptions

> for their patients versus the much larger number who prefer to use

> prepared formula of various forms or even prefer western herbs or

> vitamin therapy.

>

> So perhaps about 8% of American practitioners and TCM college

students

> involved in the field with a serious interest in herbology are now

group

> members. We are also possibly one of the largest in a a

single

> field of alternative medicine that is limited strictly to graduate

and

> professional level members. We are particularly well represented in

> California, Illinois, Oregon, Washington, New York, Colorado and

> Florida. I know a lot of heartland states do not have herbs in

their

> scope of practice, perhaps this is why such states are

> underrepresented. I'd like to attract some additional members from

> Asia, Europe and Australia to round things out some more, too.

>

> Several members have commented privately to me recently that our

> discussion group has evolved (self-organized?) into a very important

> medium for exchange in our field. We should all be pleased with the

> level of discussion we generate and with the civility (for the most

> part) of our dialogues.

>

> Happy Holidays and all that stuff :-)

>

> --

>

> Director

> Chinese Herbal Medicine

>

[Guest guest]

, " Michael Buyze " <mbuyze@h...>

wrote:

 

>

> Are the students at other schools in a similar situation?

 

I am sure they are, but perhaps out of ignorance. There have been

several internet " appliances " available for a few years now. WebTV is

one that can get you on the internet for about $125 for a used unit. I

think there are now others that are as cheap, even brand new. So there

is really no excuse anymore. And having access to the internet can

easily pay for itself. I recently took board exams in sacramento and

found out that I paid $50 less for my plane ticket and about $100 less

for my hotel room compared to some others. I would have asked for this

as an x-mas gift if I didn't have my iMac.

 

[Guest guest]

Michael Buyze wrote:

 

> The Midwest College

> has made an attempt to provide access to the internet in the library,

> but seems to be too few and outdated computers and inconvenient(when

> students are on campus, they are in class).

>

> Are the students at other schools in a similar situation?

 

TCM people have in the past skewed more toward the " less technology is

better than more " type of perspectives. I think that's one reason for

the fact that among the 1500 names on my referral list, only 50 of them

have e-mail addresses. (though I'm sure its really more, but only 50

have told the aaom or the other orgs or me.) That's still a very small

percentage.

 

ECTOM has two computers on-line with printer and stuff in the library

and another three in the room that was set aside for the student

council. It is open and available to any student.

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

I wanted to thank everyone for being a part of this Acupuncutre

email group. I'm very happy with the posts and the member

activity. Unfortunately, there are some problems. I will once

again moderate the list to keep *spam* from everyone's

mailboxes. Also, I have the photo and file option off for this

group- meaning no one should be able to access this section.

As for the recent " photo's added " emails, please disreguard

them. They are not authorised, and not pertaining to

acupuncture.

Hope this helps.

Thanks again, and let's continue using this forum to exchange

information with one another.

Lauren

List moderater