Guest guest Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 I beg your pardon. I see your point, and agree it is vague to say Japanese acupuncture without further refining the school or thought. I have studied with no one, I was not that fortunate, I am alas, self taught, I read and assimilate and apply when I find an approach sound. It is Matsumoto, and I find her work with her teachers tremendous. I have applied the reflex-release with good results, and though well versed in 5 E and 8 Extra Chs, I find myself veering to that form. If you could speak further of the system you practice, I should appreciate it. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Chinese Medicine , " homi kaikobad " <aryaone@e...> wrote: >> > If you could speak further of the system you practice, I should appreciate > it. > I don't really have a system, more like a series of half-understood concepts and some basic techniques put together in a somewhat arbitrary fashion. I did have the good fortune (and credit rating) to be able to study Toyohari from 1995-2001 or so, including summer sessions in Japan. I did teach a bit for them too, oddly enough. I've studied some pediatrics with Tanioka Masanori. I also have been involved since about 1997 or so with Shudo Denmei's group, and have been a member of NAJOM from 1995 and have contributed some articles and been on the editorial staff. I've also taught straight TCM, acupuncture & herbs, since 1999, at a couple of ACAOM schools. So I am a true mongrel. Further information can be found on my website http://jabinet.net robert hayden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Kampo: Point selection is primarily based on Nan Jing chapter 69: Lung Sho: LU9, SP3 Spleen Sho: SP3, P7 Liver Sho: LV8, K10 Kidney Sho: K7, LU5. Studied your website. A question. Can you explain the ratinale in the use of this points? To ther extent that I can figure it out: LU 9 is a horary toming point for Metal in LU time SP 3 is likewise for Metal in SP time. SP 3 is a horary toming point for Metal in SP time P 7 is likewise for Metal in P time. LV 8 is a horary toming point for Wood in LV time K 10 is likewise for Water in K time. K 7 is a horary toming point for Water in K time LU 5 is likewise for Water in LU time. Several of the points can have reducing action in different time frames. I also note that the system goes by these 4 patterns: Lung Sho: Lung and Spleen Deficient Spleen Sho: Spleen and Heart (Pericardium) Deficient Liver Sho: Liver and Kidney Deficient Kidney Sho: Kidney and Lung Deficient If the above point grid is related to the patterns, can you clarify? Regarsd Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Chinese Medicine , " Dr. Holmes Keikobad " <acuheal@e...> wrote: > Kampo: > Point selection is primarily based on Nan Jing chapter 69: > Lung Sho: LU9, SP3 > Spleen Sho: SP3, P7 > Liver Sho: LV8, K10 > Kidney Sho: K7, LU5. > > Studied your website. > A question. Can you explain the ratinale in the use of this points? The point rx is based on the old Sa-am interpretation of Nan Jing 69. Sa-am was a Korean monk and created what's come to be known as " Korean 4-needle treatment " which is the basis for most 5-phase acupuncture combinations. Nan Jing 69 says: When deficient, supplement (tonify whatever) the mother. Sa-am used the " mother " phase point on the affected channel and the " same-phase " (horary, intrinsic, whatever) point on the " mother phase " channel in combination. Keiraku Chiryo or Japanese Meridian Therapy is based on four fundamental patterns, which are listed below. Basically, the Keiraku Chiryo school doesn't pay attention to the time of treatment -- simplicity and practical application are more important. > > To ther extent that I can figure it out: > LU 9 is a horary toming point for Metal in LU time > SP 3 is likewise for Metal in SP time. > LU9 = Earth point on Metal SP3 = Earth point on Earth This is straight from Sa-am style > SP 3 is a horary toming point for Metal in SP time > P 7 is likewise for Metal in P time. SP3 = Earth point on earth P7 = Earth point on fire Sa-am points are SP2 & P8, but Keiraku Chiryo has a tabu on tonifying the Fire phase. Don't ask, it's complicated. > > LV 8 is a horary toming point for Wood in LV time > K 10 is likewise for Water in K time. LR8, K10 standard Sa-am points > > K 7 is a horary toming point for Water in K time > LU 5 is likewise for Water in LU time. Sa-am points are K7 & LU8, but LU5 is usually preferred because it is an easier point to locate and generally more effective. In Keiraku Chiryo, rules are important and should be strictly followed, except when they get in the way then they get thrown out. > > Several of the points can have reducing action in different time frames. Only if you reduce (drain) them, otherwise they are tonifying (supplementing) if you tonify them. Needle technique is important, as is the place of the point choices within the larger context of the pattern. Again, in Keiraku Chiryo generally there is no concept of biorhythmic properties of points. Manaka did a lot of work with them but he did a lot of work with everything -- he was sui generis. Most classical Japanese styles are theoretically uncomplicated by design. Praxis is emphasized over theory. > > I also note that the system goes by these 4 patterns: > > Lung Sho: Lung and Spleen Deficient > Spleen Sho: Spleen and Heart (Pericardium) Deficient > Liver Sho: Liver and Kidney Deficient > Kidney Sho: Kidney and Lung Deficient > > If the above point grid is related to the patterns, can you clarify? > See above. Shudo Denmei has the best introduction to Keiraku Chiryo in English (or Japanese for that matter). His point location book is a must-have IMO as well. robert hayden http://jabinet.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 I have more or less found the answer to my original post. It seems that Japanese acupuncture in the West tends to be taught as postgraduate training, rather than as a discipline in itself. Toyo hari (oriental needling) as a discipline of keiryaku chiryo (meridian therapy) seems to be the most popular style, with many associations in various countries <http://www.toyohari.org/>. Stephen Birch, who is based in Amsterdam <http://www.itcmb.ch/Ueber/Dozenten/cntBirch.htm>, has seminars in English in Basel, Switzerland <http://www.i-tcm- b.ch/Ausbildung/Seminare/cntBirch2004.htm> from time to time. Jake Paul Fratkin has an interesting article on his thoughts about TCM vs. Japanese style acupuncture <http://www.traditional-japanese- acupuncture.com/acupuncture_styles/therapy2-2.html>. He also mentions well-known names in Japanese acupuncture including Stephen Birch, Kiiko Matsumoto, Fukushima, Shudo, Manaka and Serizawa. Robert Hayden appears to offer courses. His Web site needs updating <http://www.jabinet.net/>, but still has a lot of interesting information, including recommending reading. Miki Shima's name cropped up a lot. Although he is Japanese, from the CV on his Web site <http://www.mikishima.com>, he seems only to have studied acupuncture in California. If anyone has any other information on Japanese acupuncture, where one can study it or even schools in Japan that have a good reputation, please let me know. Yours sincerely, Caroline acupuncture , " c_bertorelli " <c_bertorelli> wrote: > Can anyone recommend or suggest any schools for studying Japanese > style acupuncture? I have tried searching on the internet with not > much success. Possibly this could be because the schools are all in > Japan (with Web sites in Japanese)! But if anyone knows of any > sources in English, I would greatly appreciate it. > > Thanks, > Caroline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 To my knowledge there are no Japanese style schools in the US. I studied a Japanese style from one particular teacher at Southwest Acupuncture College, but the bulk of that school is TCM. It was nice to have the exposure to that medicine however. Chinese TCM has been pretty well standardized where as Japanese styles (there are many) to the most part are taught master to apprentice like it was done in the old days and so no schools exist. Good luck! Chris c_bertorelli [c_bertorelli] Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:02 PM acupuncture acupuncture Japanese Acupuncture Can anyone recommend or suggest any schools for studying Japanese style acupuncture? I have tried searching on the internet with not much success. Possibly this could be because the schools are all in Japan (with Web sites in Japanese)! But if anyone knows of any sources in English, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Caroline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Hi I was going over old postings and came across yours. Bastyr University in Seattle Washington has a year long training fro licensed acupuncturist. You come to Seattle for approximately 1 weekend a month. I took it from the same people when it was taught at a different school and it was very good and complete. The instructors are a combination of US who specialize in Jap. acupuncture and occasionally people from Japan with translators. Shad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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