I just BANNEd this huggy feely lady from the UK, what to know why?

[Guest guest]

Doc, if Janice had any knowledge of BLACK BOXES and PROPULSION

SYSTEMS, she was keeping it to herself. Too bad because a discussion

of how these relate to her comments could be helpful to her and

interesting as well.

 

She did make some thought provoking though bitter observations. She

certainly jumped to opinionated conclusions. It's unfortunate that she

couldn't leave it at that without the venom and personal attacks on

you and Lillie.

 

With her need to strike out I'm not sure she could " have commented the

EXACT SAME THINGS but been within the boundaries of politeness and

respect towards Lillie, and towards this group? "

 

You did give her a road map in your reply. You showed her where she

took a wrong turn and how to get back on track. All she had to do is

make the effort. Was that the test?

 

>If you disagree with Lillie, please give reasons and specifics. If

>you want to talk about YOUR version of " loser's limp " , that's fine,

>give reasons, specifics, and maybe a way to help them.

 

You also gave us all a great clue as to the meaning of " loser's limp. "

You are a wily one!

Thanks!

barb (bbtried)

[Guest guest]

, " bbtried "

<bbtried wrote:

>

> Doc, if Janice had any knowledge of BLACK BOXES and PROPULSION

> SYSTEMS, she was keeping it to herself. Too bad because a

discussion

> of how these relate to her comments could be helpful to her and

> interesting as well.

>

> She did make some thought provoking though bitter observations. She

> certainly jumped to opinionated conclusions. It's unfortunate that

she

> couldn't leave it at that without the venom and personal attacks on

> you and Lillie.

>

> With her need to strike out I'm not sure she could " have commented

the

> EXACT SAME THINGS but been within the boundaries of politeness and

> respect towards Lillie, and towards this group? "

>

> You did give her a road map in your reply. You showed her where she

> took a wrong turn and how to get back on track. All she had to do

is

> make the effort. Was that the test?

>

> >If you disagree with Lillie, please give reasons and specifics. If

> >you want to talk about YOUR version of " loser's limp " , that's

fine,

> >give reasons, specifics, and maybe a way to help them.

>

> You also gave us all a great clue as to the meaning of " loser's

limp. "

> You are a wily one!

> Thanks!

> barb (bbtried)

 

Thank Barb,

 

Nice intelligent comments.

 

It is strange, but another lady from back East was offended I posted

Janice's post, and she thought Janice was correct.

 

Am I missing something, being a male?

 

 

[Guest guest]

doc said: It is strange, but another lady from back East was offended I posted Janice's post, and she thought Janice was correct.Am I missing something, being a male?

 

absolutely not!!!

if we want to talk about " hate " , i just hate this attitude of blaming men (or blacks, or whites, or republicans) for one's complete inability to be happy and fulfilled. man if that isn't a dead end street, i don't know what is! because people with attitudes like that are completely unwilling to take any responsibility for their own experiences, they can only see whatever confirms their own twisted perceptions (is this a " propulsion system " ?). they are basically beyond help, as long as they hold that attitude, because it's always somebody else's fault.

 

 

doc i noticed you offered her the opportunity to talk about " her version of loser's limp " and although she did not respond to that per se, she did sail right into all that very presumptuously negative stuff about how " a woman can't get ahead without getting fucked " --- is that what you mean about testing her, and failing? because it would have been very easy for her to frame that statement differently, and still be on this list.

 

- lyn

[Guest guest]

I have not read Lillie's post but I have read the posts from this thread. With

all due

respect, I honestly don't see what tips this lady's remark from " unfortunate

snipe " to

" personal attack. "

I can see your point of view, but in my opinion your reply to her was much more

hostile

than anything she said beforehand (eg. use of capital letters to emphasize

certain words,

demanding proof of that which cannot be held objectively--how do you prove an

opinion?).

It also seems to me that she was not refering to the list in a negative manner

but rather

her inability to add anything meaningful to a group that did not agree with her

attitude.

This is not really an insult to the group...but it surely does speak volumes

about her.

The wording of her reply to you was inappropriate, but sparked by what could be

seen as

the overreaction to her post.

I also don't see anywhere in her posts where she refers to others by pejorative

nic-names

(doesnt matter what they are, what matters is the true opinion of the person who

penned

them... " sweetypie " is just another word for " f*ck you " in this case)

 

This is a public forum (at least insofar as people remain on your good side it

seems) and

Lillie is a big girl. She posted here knowing that it opened her up to a

variety of remarks

from a variety of people; some of whome might not agree with her. Better to

have met

this lady with compassion than to have thrown a vague " test " at her and then

belittle her

for not responding. Not everyone will pick up on the idea that an aggressive

email is really

an all-important test in disguise.

 

I never learned the art of communicating in a concise manner (obviously ),

but to sum

up, I think you over-reacted.

 

*braces for firestorm*

 

 

, " kahunamaker "

<kahunamaker wrote:

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I just BANNED this huggy feely lady, Janice (a fake name) from the UK...know

why?

>

> Lately the topic has come up on when I ban, and why I ban.

> The following is an actual example of a 3 post sequence of me talking with

" sweety pie "

and then banning that sweet lady from the UK, from any of my lists.

>

> Did anyone notice Lillie's brillant post yesterday

(mindmastery-essentialskills), or was it

today?

>

> Well, this is Janice McFee's public reply, a personal attack, to Lillie's

post.

>

> I found it amusing and inappropiate.

>

> Amusing, NOT because it's funny but because of how painful her life must be

BECAUSE

OF HER OWN ATTITUDES!

>

> INAPPROPIATE because this group has a different energy than hate.

>

> My private post to Janice is post #2. Janice's reply to post #2 is Post #3.

>

> After you read all 3 posts, and re-read Lillie's post, I'd love for those who

want to, to tell

me when and why I ban several people every week, and sometimes daily.

>

> Have fun reading, thinking about and reflecting on the following posts.

>

>

>

>

> -

> <Message #1 is Janice McFee's (a fake name) answer to Lillie's great post>

>

> > Don't tell me. You got where you did because of hard work and

> > sheer brilliance.

>

> > If I should suggest that having a husband helps, or a man, I

> > suppose I will not be seen as having much to offer on this list.

>

> > Love that lite!

>

> > Janice McFee

> ---------------------

> <message #2, is my private post to that lady>

> Hello Janice,

>

> It seems to me that you are attacking Lillie WITHOUT any

> provocation, and NOT answering the original question.

>

> Then you attack this list saying, " not having much to offer on this

> list " .

>

> If you disagree with Lillie, please give reasons and specifics. If

> you want to talk about YOUR version of " loser's limp " , that's fine,

> give reasons, specifics, and maybe a way to help them.

>

> If you want to attack me, or this list, give reasons, specifics and

> verification processes.

>

> Thank you.

>

> ----------------------------

> <message #3 is her response to my private suggestions>

>

> Not everyone in life will make a success of it, or be successful in

> what they do. I should have thought you'd know that. Obviously, there's

nothing I can

say about that. We live in different worlds, no doubt.

>

> If someone is losing out, and they keep smiling, and they continue to lose

out, they will

die with no one knowing they lost out. If people keep smiling even when the

world's gone

wrong, and they keep silent, no one will ever know. Of course, if they smile,

and then life

gets better, it all makes sense, but I will tell you this, where I live, you

don't get ahead

unless you let them fuck you.

>

> And as long as a woman doesn't say no, she is likely to be unaware of how she

got

ahead in life. So how many ex's does Lillie have. And how many girls have you

fucked.

>

> Janice McFee

>

> ------------------------

>

> Well group,

>

> Not much to say with an attitude like that, is there?

>

> Especially in a public forum.

>

> Sort of off topic when vented in that manner.

>

> Now, what manner could Janice have commented the EXACT SAME THINGS but been

within the boundaries of politeness and respect towards Lillie, and towards this

group?

>

> And the topic of HATE is also allowed on this group.

>

> A neat topic, especially regarding PROPULSION SYSTEMS...

>

> ...And regarding BLACK BOXES that hold you back.

>

> Feel free to post your comments, suggestions, etc.

>

>

> ps. Would I take this person on as a private client? Well, probably NOT. Why

not?

Because I always test a person for what they want, and then I test for them

doing what is

necessary to acquire the skills they need to get to where they want to go. She

failed the

test. Did you notice where I tested her, and how she failed the test? Look

again. It's in the

above.

>

[Guest guest]

since when is the use of CAPITAL letters, ipso facto " hostile " ?

 

i thought doc was very clear, and what he did was reasonable and the right thing to do. he identified (1) the problems with janice's reply which was nothing more than a personal attack via sarcasm, and (2) he also identified what janice could do to clarify what she meant by her original personal attack via sarcasm. janice didn't even get banned at that point. she only got banned after her reply to doc which was even more vicious and sarcastic, WITHOUT clarification or justification.

 

so, you think doc's response was unjustified and he should keep somebody spouting total crap like that on this list?!?!? would that be COMPASSION, or SYMPATHY, or something?

 

also doc didn't show any hostility, but janice was oozing it from every seam.

 

[Guest guest]

mindmastery-essentialskills , " docspeed2001 "

<docspeed2001 wrote:

>

> It is strange, but another lady from back East was offended I

posted

> Janice's post, and she thought Janice was correct.

>

> Am I missing something, being a male?

>

>

>

 

 

" Janice " comes across as bitter, blaming and living at effect.

 

She can't back up her own statements with actual facts so she gets

lazy and generalizes with cheap, outdated stereotypes about women.

Was this a joke? Or did she just wake up from a 40 year sleep? My

grandmother was more progressive thinking than that.

 

There's no way you can get to the level I'm currently at and earn

what I earn at the company I work for without brains, integrity and

work. They find out really quickly if you don't know what the hell

you're doing, and you won't last long. Having the right attitude is

also a plus.

 

Janice attacks not once but three times in a row and made baseless,

undermining attacks on someone, and then got banned from the groups.

I'm wondering what the probability is that that attitude shows up in

her jobs and other relationships.

 

She could have explained the basis behind her accusations, but she

doesn't have any, other than she wants to be bitter and blame for

reasons that she can't explain, and anyone who just happens to be

passing by, like Lilly or you or this group, she feels needs to pay.

 

Comments like Janice's are cheap and self-destructive, and that's her

problem.

 

Lori

[Guest guest]

Hello Lyn!

Thank you for your reply.

To clear up a few points:

 

*** " since when is the use of CAPITAL letters, ipso facto " hostile " ?

 

What I said was that in my experience the use of capital letters

conveys anger and yelling. Perhaps it is not so in your online

interactions, which is fine. I also said that *I thought* his response

was a bit strong.

I was not impressing my perception on anyone else.

Forgive me, but it seems to me that you are attempting to do just that

as evidenced by your statement:

 

 

**** " > so, you think doc's response was unjustified and he should keep

somebody.....

 

I never said anything of the sort.

Obviously you disagree with me and question the appropriateness of my

reply; but your method of illustrating this is to interpret my words

to suit your own anger.

 

 

*****> spouting total crap like that on this list?!?!?

> "

 

And " crap " is in the eye of the beholder--so to speak. I'm sure she

had some justification in her past for how she felt which makes her

view true for her--in her world, women use sex for advancement. Even

I believe that this is done. Who has the right to judge the opinions

of another?

 

 

***** would that be COMPASSION, or

> SYMPATHY, or something?*******

 

No. The definition of " Compassion " contains the element of wanting to

alleviate the suffering.

Compassion (I did not use the word " sympathy " )is acknowledging her

experience and perhaps incorporating it into another discussion. How

could one link the Huna philosophy to her ideas and what lessons could

be learned by it?

 

 

***> i thought doc was *very* clear, and what he did was reasonable

and the right

 

I believe that you are overlooking the points on which we agree.

Indeed I agreed with many things that William said. Doc had every

right to confront this woman, Im not saying he didnt; and yet the

responses I keep getting are consistant with the idea that because I

had a criticism, and--even worse--actually said something about it--

that I believe in " allowing " this woman to continue posting. I assure

you this was not what I meant, nor had I in fact even taken the

thought to that point at all.

 

 

**** she only

> got banned after her reply to doc which was even more vicious and

sarcastic,

> WITHOUT clarification or justification.

 

I also agree that the language of her retort was inappropriate; but if

Doc wrote a response that *I* felt was over-reacting then I could very

well understand why she might agree and follow suit in sending back

such an email.

 

 

> also doc didn't show any hostility, but janice was oozing it from every

> seam.....clarify what she meant by her original personal

> attack via sarcasm.

>****

 

Perhaps what I consider hostile doesnt mesh with your opinion, and

maybe my tolerance for sarcasm is higher than most.

What does it really matter that *one* post contained sarcasm? Does it

keep the sun from rising?

Did someone die?

If making a statement with sarcasm is considered a " personal attack "

then my friends attack me every day. If I berated them for every

instance something they said pissed me off, very soon I would have no

friends at all.

 

Parody is also a method of attack--so is editorial, Spoof, Lampoon and

caricature. Should we now filter posts for those? (sorry, perhaps

that was a tad sarcastic)

 

 

I understand if the general population does not agree with me, I dont

expect them to; but please do not put words into my mouth, ascribe to

me beliefs I do not have or assume there are motivations where there

are none.

Although you would disagree I'm sure--I feel that the nature of the

responses I have gotten from my post have been much more of the nature

of " personal attack " than anything I have written.

 

Forgive me if I have offended you.

[Guest guest]

-SNIP-

>> I have not read Lillie's post but I have read the posts from this

thread. With all due

> respect, I honestly don't see what tips this lady's remark

from " unfortunate snipe " to

> " personal attack. "

> I can see your point of view, but in my opinion your reply to her

was much more hostile

> than anything she said beforehand (eg. use of capital letters to

emphasize certain words,

> demanding proof of that which cannot be held objectively--how do

you prove an

> opinion?).

 

> It also seems to me that she was not refering to the list in a

negative manner but rather

> her inability to add anything meaningful to a group that did not

agree with her attitude.

 

I disagree... I can see that her comment is definitely not in a

positive manner. So waht is it? A questioning manner as you

present? When in a public forum and your say something like

 

" If I should suggest that having a husband helps, or a man, suppose I

will not be seen as having much to offer on this list. "

 

The underlying message sent is that someone has to have a huband in

order to contribute to her list. If Janice is mixing the ideas up in

her head...and she says such things then YEAH it is an attack.

 

And by the way...when doc mentioned propulsion systems...

That just got sirens running n my head.

I mean...if this lady really used that to get her where she wants to

go...then she would be moving up instead of .....

 

On a side note, this thread helps me understand and even put a

conscious effort to using various events in my life as propulsions

systems. I had the idea once that...welll in order for me to

succeed it has to be nice and prim and proper and all the Ts crossed

and I's dotted. Coloring between the lines ETC ETC.

Meaning really huggy feely....not having anger or rage or hate or

whichever.

 

But now I have come to realize and accept those emotions as something

that I can just use.

....if I am pissed off at let's say losing a match

....then I can use that event/emotion to get push myself to get better.

 

I used to have a ambiguity towards this as most of the stuf I have

been hearing has been " " Oh you should do things because you love

it...and OH doing things out of HATE is just a draining experience.

 

 

Frankly once I realized that these are just emotions and if I am OK

with them...I cn use them.

 

Since them...there have been sessions of emotional stimualtion(hating

certain events)

....as a result I am more active in my martial arts

....as a result I am more acitve in taking care of health

....I am more conscious of my emotions

....I am reading more about frames of MInd from the books I learned

from DOC on this group

....and I am just MORE ME...than anyone else.

 

AND I am OK.

 

Thank GOD for these propulsion systems.

And if Janice...was to use this experience of being kicked out as a

propulsion system

...then she may actually get something else that she wants...instead

of getting ****.

 

Funny how these walls are written with these stuf.

 

ON COMPASSION:

To say that a person should have been approached with compassion

after the fact that they have been treated " more hostile " is like

saying hindsite is 20/20. But the perfectness of things is the fact

that she was treated in a " hostile " manner as you mentioned. IMO it

happened cause she created it herself. Just like she is creating the

work environment that she currently has. Once she figures that out

and actually does something about it...then it all remains the same.

 

> This is not really an insult to the group...but it surely does

speak volumes about her.

 

I think it is an attack on the group...underhanded I do say. And yes

it is and attack IMO and it does speak volumes about her.

 

> The wording of her reply to you was inappropriate, but sparked by

what could be seen as

> the overreaction to her post.

> I also don't see anywhere in her posts where she refers to others

by pejorative nic-names

> (doesnt matter what they are, what matters is the true opinion of

the person who penned

> them... " sweetypie " is just another word for " f*ck you " in this case)

 

Hmmm...intersting perspective. I wonder the processing for it.

 

>

> This is a public forum (at least insofar as people remain on your

good side it seems) and

RULES STRUCTURE...oops rules structure

 

 

> Lillie is a big girl. She posted here knowing that it opened her

up to a variety of remarks

> from a variety of people; some of whome might not agree with her.

Better to have met

> this lady with compassion than to have thrown a vague " test " at her

and then belittle her

> for not responding. Not everyone will pick up on the idea that an

aggressive email is really

> an all-important test in disguise.

>

EVERYTHING is a TEST..but that is just in my world.

....just like everything is a learning experience.

....only thing is all this learning has to go somewhere and be used

for something.

 

> I never learned the art of communicating in a concise manner

(obviously ), but to sum

> up, I think you over-reacted.

>

To say that someone over reacted is a judegment in itself.

Fine...some people call it that. Some people call it creating your

own world.

 

I 'll tell you a story at my work. For years, I have been the busy

bee worker doing this and that exceling in this and that getting

awards this and that....but as I pursued management it was really

challenging. I saw myself complaining of htis and that and so on.

Until I started framing...and getting a higher frame of the events

and correlating them to how I have been dealing with things. I

realize that in the world of my manager she wants certain types of

people around her....whether it is a personality...or a reliabitly or

just plain favoritism.... SO I asked myself if this is what I

WANT...not really. I WANT a boss who I could consider as my mentor.

So....my mindset has changed at work. I am presenting things to my

current boss in a manner that fits into her VAKOG and within her

belief system. In my bringing thing to fruition, I am working on

having a personality that would attract the boss that I want. I cant

believe I WNAT A BOSS!!! That is hilarious. I will have to reframe

that and look for something that turns my CRANK MORE.

 

In any case...great thread.

Opened up propulsion systems.

Also this whole writing and being digital really wakens you up on

what the heck is in your mind.

 

" run your own brain "

 

JIA