Guest guest Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 Shanna, It sounds like you are looking at spleen qi xu as well, and that may be why the bruising is not going away fast with the blood movers. what does the tongue look like? he could moxa the bruise with a stick after using liniment, that would help, you could also try applying a soft plaster or a poultice onto it. Eti shannahickle <shannahickle wrote: Hi everybody I have a patient who presented about 3 weeks ago with a huge (baseball sized) hematoma right on Sp 9. Strangely enough, he was hit by a baseball! There is little muscle tissue or, consequently, blood supply at Sp 9 as you know. He saw a doctor who told him he could lance it at the time or that he could just wait and it would eventually go away. He came to see me and I have been surrounding the bump on the medial side only as the tibia has so little tissue there I can't really insert on the other side. I have also been using Sp 6. I gave him a bottle of Jin Gu Die Shang Wan and sent him on his way thinking it would go away quickly as this treatment has worked very quickly for normal hematomas in the past. I treated him twice the first week and weekly since. It has reduced somewhat and has a discolored appearance which I consider good, that the blood is slowly dispersing to the capillary circulation at the skin level. I hesitate to use pricking since it was a " bone bruise " and I'm afraid of puncturing the periostium and introducing bacteria to that area. But it just seems like an inordinately slow process compared to other hematomas I've seen in the past. Is pricking safe or recommended? Is there another formula which might work better? He reports no pain (at least not since the acute phase subsided). He's been " working " the bump with some massage--is that good or bad? I also recommended rubbing it with fresh ginger root and using hot soaks. It doesn't interfere with movement but looks pretty awful and probably would be painful if hit. Is this perhaps not local qi and blood stasis after all? Is there a damp component? Are the Kidneys involved and how? His toungue and pulse are unchanged from his normal presentation which I consider to be slight essence vacuity-- susceptible to colds, allergies lifelong, " not too smart " , sort of dull affect. We got his allergies under control a while back and he only sees me on and off for massage. He's quite " clingy " and kind of a " whiner " , very sensitive to acupuncture (he yells loudly before I insert the needles!). He's a kind and wonderful individual, of course and a great Dad. Any help out there? Maybe it just takes time because of the lack of perfusion and we're already doing the best we can. Just would like some feedback/support on this. Thanks, Shanna Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 Hi everybody I have a patient, 52, who presented about 3 weeks ago with a huge (baseball sized) hematoma right on Sp 9. Strangely enough, he was hit by a baseball! There is little muscle tissue or, consequently, blood supply at Sp 9 as you know. He saw a doctor who told him he could lance it at the time or that he could just wait and it would eventually go away. He came to see me and I have been surrounding the bump on the medial side only as the tibia has so little tissue there I can't really insert on the other side. I have also been using Sp 6. I gave him a bottle of Jin Gu Die Shang Wan and sent him on his way thinking it would go away quickly as this treatment has worked very quickly for normal hematomas in the past. I treated him twice the first week and weekly since. It has reduced somewhat and has a discolored appearance which I consider good, that the blood is slowly dispersing to the capillary circulation at the skin level. I hesitate to use pricking since it was a " bone bruise " and I'm afraid of puncturing the periostium and introducing bacteria to that area. But it just seems like an inordinately slow process compared to other hematomas I've seen in the past. Is pricking safe or recommended? Is there another formula which might work better? He reports no pain (at least not since the acute phase subsided). He's been " working " the bump with some massage--is that good or bad? I also recommended rubbing it with fresh ginger root and using hot soaks. It doesn't interfere with movement but looks pretty awful and probably would be painful if hit. Is this perhaps not local qi and blood stasis after all? Is there a damp component? Are the Kidneys involved and how? His toungue and pulse are unchanged from his normal presentation which I consider to be slight essence vacuity-- susceptible to colds, allergies lifelong, " not too smart " , sort of dull affect. We got his allergies under control a while back and he only sees me on and off for massage. He's quite " clingy " and kind of a " whiner " , very sensitive to acupuncture (he yells loudly before I insert the needles!). He's a kind and wonderful individual, of course and a great Dad. Any help out there? Maybe it just takes time because of the lack of perfusion and we're already doing the best we can. Just would like some feedback/support on this. Thanks, Shanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi. If you have the right sized cup, you could use plum blossom or seven star needle tapping method over briuse, then cupping over area to draw the dead blood out. Works beautifully! Use appropriate force. shannahickle <shannahickle wrote:Hi everybody I have a patient who presented about 3 weeks ago with a huge (baseball sized) hematoma right on Sp 9. Strangely enough, he was hit by a baseball! There is little muscle tissue or, consequently, blood supply at Sp 9 as you know. He saw a doctor who told him he could lance it at the time or that he could just wait and it would eventually go away. He came to see me and I have been surrounding the bump on the medial side only as the tibia has so little tissue there I can't really insert on the other side. I have also been using Sp 6. I gave him a bottle of Jin Gu Die Shang Wan and sent him on his way thinking it would go away quickly as this treatment has worked very quickly for normal hematomas in the past. I treated him twice the first week and weekly since. It has reduced somewhat and has a discolored appearance which I consider good, that the blood is slowly dispersing to the capillary circulation at the skin level. I hesitate to use pricking since it was a " bone bruise " and I'm afraid of puncturing the periostium and introducing bacteria to that area. But it just seems like an inordinately slow process compared to other hematomas I've seen in the past. Is pricking safe or recommended? Is there another formula which might work better? He reports no pain (at least not since the acute phase subsided). He's been " working " the bump with some massage--is that good or bad? I also recommended rubbing it with fresh ginger root and using hot soaks. It doesn't interfere with movement but looks pretty awful and probably would be painful if hit. Is this perhaps not local qi and blood stasis after all? Is there a damp component? Are the Kidneys involved and how? His toungue and pulse are unchanged from his normal presentation which I consider to be slight essence vacuity-- susceptible to colds, allergies lifelong, " not too smart " , sort of dull affect. We got his allergies under control a while back and he only sees me on and off for massage. He's quite " clingy " and kind of a " whiner " , very sensitive to acupuncture (he yells loudly before I insert the needles!). He's a kind and wonderful individual, of course and a great Dad. Any help out there? Maybe it just takes time because of the lack of perfusion and we're already doing the best we can. Just would like some feedback/support on this. Thanks, Shanna Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi Shanna, Bone bruises do take a very long time to heal. You might consider giving him some blood movers and also needling UB-11, the influential point for bones. Alternately, you can needle the opposite leg in the area of the bruise. You can also try e-stim to help disperse the accumulation. shannahickle <shannahickle wrote: Hi everybody I have a patient who presented about 3 weeks ago with a huge (baseball sized) hematoma right on Sp 9. Strangely enough, he was hit by a baseball! There is little muscle tissue or, consequently, blood supply at Sp 9 as you know. He saw a doctor who told him he could lance it at the time or that he could just wait and it would eventually go away. He came to see me and I have been surrounding the bump on the medial side only as the tibia has so little tissue there I can't really insert on the other side. I have also been using Sp 6. I gave him a bottle of Jin Gu Die Shang Wan and sent him on his way thinking it would go away quickly as this treatment has worked very quickly for normal hematomas in the past. I treated him twice the first week and weekly since. It has reduced somewhat and has a discolored appearance which I consider good, that the blood is slowly dispersing to the capillary circulation at the skin level. I hesitate to use pricking since it was a " bone bruise " and I'm afraid of puncturing the periostium and introducing bacteria to that area. But it just seems like an inordinately slow process compared to other hematomas I've seen in the past. Is pricking safe or recommended? Is there another formula which might work better? He reports no pain (at least not since the acute phase subsided). He's been " working " the bump with some massage--is that good or bad? I also recommended rubbing it with fresh ginger root and using hot soaks. It doesn't interfere with movement but looks pretty awful and probably would be painful if hit. Is this perhaps not local qi and blood stasis after all? Is there a damp component? Are the Kidneys involved and how? His toungue and pulse are unchanged from his normal presentation which I consider to be slight essence vacuity-- susceptible to colds, allergies lifelong, " not too smart " , sort of dull affect. We got his allergies under control a while back and he only sees me on and off for massage. He's quite " clingy " and kind of a " whiner " , very sensitive to acupuncture (he yells loudly before I insert the needles!). He's a kind and wonderful individual, of course and a great Dad. Any help out there? Maybe it just takes time because of the lack of perfusion and we're already doing the best we can. Just would like some feedback/support on this. Thanks, Shanna Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Hi Shanna! The concern with massaging such an accumulation of blood stasis is that a bit of the clot could occlude an artery or vein, or travel to kidney, brain, heart or lung. Slow is better for the re-absorption of such a mass. How old is the patient? How active? The western guy offered to lance it, evidently the patient has decided against this. Needling it is sort of mini-lancing, in one sense. Might help it, unlikely to hurt anything if you use clean technique. At 01:47 PM 7/8/2004, you wrote: >Hi everybody > >I have a patient who presented about 3 weeks ago with a huge >(baseball sized) hematoma right on Sp 9. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 You could try Die Da Wan also or Shen Tong Zhu Yu Wan. I've had lots of injuries and usually rub them out with a good Die Da Jiu and moxa the area. I get Die Da Jiu from my teacher, but there are many sources or make your own. Be patient - they take a while to clear up. Oh - another trick is to cover the area with a tissue, pour some Zheng Gu Shui on it, and then put a TDP lamp over it. Good luck, Geoff , " shannahickle " <shannahickle> wrote: > Hi everybody > > I have a patient who presented about 3 weeks ago with a huge > (baseball sized) hematoma right on Sp 9. Strangely enough, he was > hit by a baseball! There is little muscle tissue or, consequently, > blood supply at Sp 9 as you know. He saw a doctor who told him he > could lance it at the time or that he could just wait and it would > eventually go away. He came to see me and I have been surrounding > the bump on the medial side only as the tibia has so little tissue > there I can't really insert on the other side. I have also been > using Sp 6. I gave him a bottle of Jin Gu Die Shang Wan and sent him > on his way thinking it would go away quickly as this treatment has > worked very quickly for normal hematomas in the past. I treated him > twice the first week and weekly since. It has reduced somewhat and > has a discolored appearance which I consider good, that the blood is > slowly dispersing to the capillary circulation at the skin level. I > hesitate to use pricking since it was a " bone bruise " and I'm afraid > of puncturing the periostium and introducing bacteria to that area. > But it just seems like an inordinately slow process compared to > other hematomas I've seen in the past. Is pricking safe or > recommended? Is there another formula which might work better? He > reports no pain (at least not since the acute phase subsided). He's > been " working " the bump with some massage--is that good or bad? I > also recommended rubbing it with fresh ginger root and using hot > soaks. It doesn't interfere with movement but looks pretty awful and > probably would be painful if hit. Is this perhaps not local qi and > blood stasis after all? Is there a damp component? Are the Kidneys > involved and how? His toungue and pulse are unchanged from his > normal presentation which I consider to be slight essence vacuity-- > susceptible to colds, allergies lifelong, " not too smart " , sort of > dull affect. We got his allergies under control a while back and he > only sees me on and off for massage. He's quite " clingy " and kind of > a " whiner " , very sensitive to acupuncture (he yells loudly before I > insert the needles!). He's a kind and wonderful individual, of > course and a great Dad. Any help out there? Maybe it just takes time > because of the lack of perfusion and we're already doing the best we > can. Just would like some feedback/support on this. > > Thanks, Shanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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