RE: Does anyone know the fastest and quickest way to get an acu...

[Guest guest]

Chris

 

Well put.

 

Unfortunately the statistics which I have no way of varifying.....speak to

those who in fact go through all of the education.....the majority of which wind

up NOT practicing or failing in practice. I never worry about the foolishess

of those who wish a short cut. It will do them NO good. Visions of sugar plums

and greener pastures.

 

As to Black belt....did you'all know that 1st degree is ONLY the beginning?

Cho Dan means that one has finally gotten to the point where they can first

BEGIN to learn karate.

 

Richard

 

 

 

In a message dated 6/12/2004 9:23:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

ckvedeler writes:

Thank you!

 

After over 3 years, almost 3000 hours and over $60k in education I

realize how ridiculous it is to think that someone can take a shortcut

to doing acupuncture or TCM. Although acupuncture is much, much safer

than say surgery or pharmacology (thus not requiring the same level of

training), to be effective acupuncture is fairly demanding. Sticking a

needle in someone, even if the point location is correct, it is a far

cry from " doing acupuncture " . Chinese medicine is a very involved,

multi-layered and a very deep medicine that takes literally decades to

master. The NCCAOM exam is ridiculously easy in terms of what is

required to be truly effective as a practitioner. Without results with

your patients your career with acupuncture will be short lived. To get

results, you need a deep understanding of the theory, how it applies to

any particular patient (real patients are never textbook), lots of

practice with pulse diagnosis and ultimately what to do in terms of

treatment. It takes years to really learn good needling technique and

only from an excellent grasp of the meridian theory can one deviate from

the textbook point locations and treatment protocols to get really good

results.

 

To me it is like asking, " what is the quickest route to a PhD? " Well,

you can buy non-accredited PhD's for $50. Congratulations Doctor, you

have a piece of paper to hang on the wall. Or " what is the quickest way

to a black belt in karate? " . You can buy one online, congratulations

your a " black-belt " . You want to practice acupuncture without education

or experience, move to Wyoming where it is not at all regulated (yet).

Put out a shingle and see what happens. It is meaningless.

 

Trying to take a shortcut to learning this medicine will only shortcut

your patients and ultimately yourself. Do yourself a favor and find a

reputable school (or find a master to apprentice under) and dive in and

truly learn this medicine.

 

Best of luck!

Chris

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Richard,

 

Yes, I've heard about such statistics too. One statistic one of my

professors told me, is that only about 1/3 of the graduating students

from acupuncture school are able to do acupuncture for a living after

only like a year out of school (i.e. not supplement it with other

income). I think this speaks also to practice management skills which

most schools do a poor job teaching, personal skills (ability to relate

to other people in a healing way, which is very difficult to teach) and

also the amount of knowledge and intuitive training necessary to quickly

get results with patients. Visions of sugar plums indeed, acupuncture

is generally not a particularly good way to make a lot of money and is a

lot of work. If you don't love the medicine going into it, it is not

likely you will survive long doing it.

 

It is interesting to me how there is a tendency in our culture to try

and find the shortest distance to a goal instead of seeing the value in

the journey. I wonder how many people on this list would choose to see

a doctor to have their appendix removed who did everything he or she

could do to cut corners in their education and went for the quickest

possible route to their license. I know for myself I wouldn't even

consider a doctor for even a simple surgery that didn't have a lot of

top notch experience and training. When dealing with people's health,

generally people tend to want the best care they can afford. Who wants

to see a " Wal-Mart " doctor? There are no shortcuts to getting good with

acupuncture. It is a long and often difficult process of learning and

growing, one like the black belt, I'm just beginning myself.

 

Chris

 

 

 

acudoc11 [acudoc11]

Monday, June 14, 2004 9:22 AM

acupuncture

Re: acupuncture Does anyone know the fastest and quickest way

to get an acu...

 

 

Chris

 

Well put.

 

Unfortunately the statistics which I have no way of varifying.....speak

to

those who in fact go through all of the education.....the majority of

which wind

up NOT practicing or failing in practice. I never worry about the

foolishess

of those who wish a short cut. It will do them NO good. Visions of sugar

plums

and greener pastures.

 

As to Black belt....did you'all know that 1st degree is ONLY the

beginning?

Cho Dan means that one has finally gotten to the point where they can

first

BEGIN to learn karate.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chris

 

Yes, practice management....OR just plain common business sense.

 

I won't mention the name but there is one such expensive program being

offered and although there is some very good practcie management advice.....when

the

patient is SEEN as a way to make lots more money... then those practitioners

become identical to the other kinds of docs we tend to despise so much.

Putting themselves into a place of necessitating the making of barrels of money.

It

is one thing to perform efficiently and quite another to target the treatment

of way too many patients.

 

I spend way too much time being an activist and still have plenty of time to

very comfortably treat enough patients every day and enjoy every minute of it.

I also enjoy being the activist otherwise I wouldn;t do it.

 

I wouldn;t access 80% of any kind of practitioner. There is just too much

mediocrity in the world which I suspect is greatly caused by people not loving

what they do. No matter how much experience one has....if they are not getting

better..... then they are NOT struggling to be better.

 

Life and experience always amazes me as to how much deeper we can see and

experience the same set of circumstances as time goes on.

 

We hear these short cut requests - some out of simple ignorance of the facts

of requirements but the majority out of arrogance and superiority complexes.

Like the DCs who continue to tout that all they need is 100 hours to perform

acupuncture. And of course the MDs don;t feel the need for even that but it's ok

for them to learn this healing art & science with about 250 hours of home

video. Now that's acceptable - right? And then they self certify themselves

perpetrating a fraud on the unsuspecting public. Someday this will get reversed

or

at least the truth will be out there for the public to KNOW never to go see

anyone who has less than the FULL LICENSURE in Acupuncture.

 

Someone needs to wake up these wanna-be practitioners and the public that

this is a complete and distinct DIFFERENT field of medicine which can never be

learned in 100-300 hours. Thats arrogance AND stupidity at it's peak.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 6/16/2004 3:26:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

ckvedeler writes:

Richard,

 

Yes, I've heard about such statistics too. One statistic one of my

professors told me, is that only about 1/3 of the graduating students

from acupuncture school are able to do acupuncture for a living after

only like a year out of school (i.e. not supplement it with other

income). I think this speaks also to practice management skills which

most schools do a poor job teaching, personal skills (ability to relate

to other people in a healing way, which is very difficult to teach) and

also the amount of knowledge and intuitive training necessary to quickly

get results with patients. Visions of sugar plums indeed, acupuncture

is generally not a particularly good way to make a lot of money and is a

lot of work. If you don't love the medicine going into it, it is not

likely you will survive long doing it.

 

It is interesting to me how there is a tendency in our culture to try

and find the shortest distance to a goal instead of seeing the value in

the journey. I wonder how many people on this list would choose to see

a doctor to have their appendix removed who did everything he or she

could do to cut corners in their education and went for the quickest

possible route to their license. I know for myself I wouldn't even

consider a doctor for even a simple surgery that didn't have a lot of

top notch experience and training. When dealing with people's health,

generally people tend to want the best care they can afford. Who wants

to see a " Wal-Mart " doctor? There are no shortcuts to getting good with

acupuncture. It is a long and often difficult process of learning and

growing, one like the black belt, I'm just beginning myself.

 

Chris

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ok, just want to clarify that when I was replying to whoever asked about the

fastest route, but myself I am prepared to spend YEARS learning. Thankfully I

found a master (or rather we found each other) who is willing to teach me. He is

a very talented acupuncturist and he comes from a family of acupuncturists. The

only problem is that he does not own the practice, but works for another OMD who

is not crazy about having an apprentice. I know that eventually when it comes to

learning hands on, I will have to be creative. I wish I could go to Tai Sophia

(the only school in my vicinity) and get a three year degree. But I have two

small children, one of them fighting leukemia, and cannot have this kind of

commitment, schedule-wise and money-wise, not to mention that I already have one

higher degree education in computer science and spent approximately 8 years in

college both here and in the former USSR. Like you say here, life sometimes gets

in the way

 

 

Christopher Vedeler <ckvedeler wrote:

Richard,

 

Yes, I've heard about such statistics too. One statistic one of my

professors told me, is that only about 1/3 of the graduating students

from acupuncture school are able to do acupuncture for a living after

only like a year out of school (i.e. not supplement it with other

income). I think this speaks also to practice management skills which

most schools do a poor job teaching, personal skills (ability to relate

to other people in a healing way, which is very difficult to teach) and

also the amount of knowledge and intuitive training necessary to quickly

get results with patients. Visions of sugar plums indeed, acupuncture

is generally not a particularly good way to make a lot of money and is a

lot of work. If you don't love the medicine going into it, it is not

likely you will survive long doing it.

 

It is interesting to me how there is a tendency in our culture to try

and find the shortest distance to a goal instead of seeing the value in

the journey. I wonder how many people on this list would choose to see

a doctor to have their appendix removed who did everything he or she

could do to cut corners in their education and went for the quickest

possible route to their license. I know for myself I wouldn't even

consider a doctor for even a simple surgery that didn't have a lot of

top notch experience and training. When dealing with people's health,

generally people tend to want the best care they can afford. Who wants

to see a " Wal-Mart " doctor? There are no shortcuts to getting good with

acupuncture. It is a long and often difficult process of learning and

growing, one like the black belt, I'm just beginning myself.

 

Chris

 

 

 

acudoc11 [acudoc11]

Monday, June 14, 2004 9:22 AM

acupuncture

Re: acupuncture Does anyone know the fastest and quickest way

to get an acu...

 

 

Chris

 

Well put.

 

Unfortunately the statistics which I have no way of varifying.....speak

to

those who in fact go through all of the education.....the majority of

which wind

up NOT practicing or failing in practice. I never worry about the

foolishess

of those who wish a short cut. It will do them NO good. Visions of sugar

plums

and greener pastures.

 

As to Black belt....did you'all know that 1st degree is ONLY the

beginning?

Cho Dan means that one has finally gotten to the point where they can

first

BEGIN to learn karate.

 

Richard