You can be sued for clenching a fist!!!

[Guest guest]

> Oh, Mr. Wilson!

> You opened a traditional can of worms, here.

> I still say that I'd stick with the " less-than-lethal, self-defene

> training " that is recognized by the courts, and enroll yourself in

>a state-approved > " police karate " course.

 

Interesting, though I do disagree.

 

And my disagreement is based upon many, many years of training cops,

of training military, of training a few mercenaries and of training

civilians.

 

Here's why I disagree. NOT in not doing that, but in, " it's just NOT

enough " .

 

Here it is.

 

Cops, Law Enforcement, blab, blab, blab, have DIFFERENT RULES for

what they will teach others and what they learn themselves!

 

Cops don't want non-cops to learn the lethal secrets, mainly because

they fear two things.

 

FEAR #1. Cops fear the legal repercussions " if " you use THEIR

TRAININGS improperly, so in defense of their own asses, they don't

train civilians in real skills. Cops don't want to get sued because

one of their students misused the self-defense skills.

 

FEAR #2. Cops fear that evil people might come to them for training,

so they never teach civilians anything good enough to use against

them, the cops.

 

In fact the above fear is prevalent among traditional martial arts

trainers also and has been ever since martial arts have existed;-)

 

Anyway, any course that is police approved has most, if not all of

the most effective technologies removed. Verified. Fact. Proven.

Just ask any cop, or any cop trainer. For that matter, ask any hard-

core criminal. The only ones that don't seem to know that are the

civilians that have had no military training.

 

> Otherwise, you'll get someone like on your jury who has only seen

> movies, and you'll get yourself landed in jail because of

> your " lethal techniques " .

 

Sorry.

 

Even the non-lethal-force trainings are under that stigma. You can

be sued for clenching a fist!!!

 

You can be sued for using a LOUD TONE OF VOICE!!!

 

So, maybe it's more effective to learn what to do and say to cops

AFTER you've saved you own butt in a lethal encounter.

 

The good news is, most lethal encounters, i.e., like a genuine

ambush with a gun happens in less than 1% of killings. The rest of

the time, if you are taught proper calibration skills and don't get

complacent, you really do have a 99% chance of controlling the

situation IF you are training in proper strategies and tactics.

 

So, " YES " knowing what to say after you'll survived the encounter is

very important, but does NOT take precedence over surviving the

encounter. Many of those tactics are in the book " Mental Training of

a Warrior " ...Other of those tactics are in " Ninja Mind Warrior

Mentality for Street Combat " ...

 

....and there are some CLASSIFIED POLICE BOOKS out there that do one

hell of a good job of going over them. Books like " Street Survival

Tactics for Armed Encounters " , and others of that life from Caliber

Press.

 

 

> Just stick with what's approved by the police council in your

>state (ie. " come-along >techniques " , self-defense and evasion).

 

Well, that is a possibility…

 

....but...

 

Let's look at what Roy wants, if that is okay since that his

original concern.

 

>I recently became a Bail Recovery Agent and although I can carry a

>weapon and no doubt there are times when a pistol is a good thing to

>have,

 

He is going out after CRIMINALS! People that have run from the cops

AFTER BEING out on bail.

 

These fellows are NOT huggy feely.

 

And, him attempting to use a traditional approach (whatever one the

Mr. Wilson <I think he's a teenage> is speaking about) will probably

get him in deep caca.

 

Traditional approaches, NONE of them, have what Roy needs and Roy

wants.

 

Now here's the real hairy part.

 

Come-alongs DON'T WORK unless you know the 9 different types of

nerve cavity strikes and the 4 methods of applying them.

 

Come-alongs DON'T WORK unless you are much stronger than the perp

(the old jiujutsu master's said, " be 2-1/2 times as strong as the

civilian " ), and the perp is caught off-guard.

 

Come-alongs DON'T WORK unless you lock the joint, and then gently

move the joint or the vibrational point every 1-2 seconds so that

the pain receptors keep on firing.

 

Of course you can just lock and break the joint then move them by

that BROKEN JOINT. Broken joints as a fulcrum of pain compliance

works well.

 

Unfortunately the opposing lawyer will then have you under charges

for mayhem.

 

>I would much rather deal with any up-close difficulties in a way

>which is not so violent but just as effective in rendering a person

>helpless so that I might take them into custody.

 

Here I infer that Roy just doesn't want to shoot anyone, unless it's

necessary.

 

I do suggest Roy get proper training in when " it's okay to shoot the

absconder " , and get the certification that shows he's had the

training.

 

Just some of the CYA that anyone in that field would be smart to go

through.

 

>There are so many styles out there that it is confusing to me to try

>and find one which will give me the results I need.

 

>I do not have time to take a long drawn out learning process since I

>need to be able to apply some techniques in a short time from now.

 

Massad Ayoob has some neat quickee courses that will help.

 

So does Caliber Press.

 

There are others, but I've been out of that field for a few years so

I'm not up on the current " whiz boys " of the police combative arts.

 

>I dont know if age or size matters as far being more compatible to a

>certain style but I am 52 and 6'.

 

It sure does!

 

Size, strength, knowledge and attitude ALL really count. So does

proper street wise training.

 

The triangle of Police Survival is, 1)Mental/physical conditioning,

2)tactics and then, 3)shooting skill.

 

Just be darn sure you learn those proper skills and the rules that

society has that goes with them.

 

Otherwise, when you get in a situation, AND YOU WILL...

 

....you don't want your lack of confidence in your abilities to

conduct yourself properly in risky situations to become panic born

of desperation.

 

I've clients that get in 3-11 tussles an evening...and they do it

lawfully without violating the perps rights.

 

You can learn to do the same.

 

>I dont wish to necessarily hurt anyone, but at the same time I want

>it over quickly and with as little trouble as possible.

 

Well Roy, you'd better rethink this through.

 

Because, if you don't IN ADVANCE work out what you need to do, then,

when you need to do it you won't be able to do anything.

 

A basic law of cognition for combat.

 

The harder you prepare BEFORE COMBAT, the MORE YOU SWEAT BEFORE THE

FIGHT, the easier the real street situation then becomes. Then a

street situation just becomes " old hat " ...nothing to it.

 

 

Ps. If I can help on anything, let me know.

 

> Later,

> S.

 

--- , federalprisoncop@w... wrote:

> Oh, Mr. Wilson!

>

> You opened a traditional can of worms, here.

>

> I still say that I'd stick with the " less-than-lethal, self-

defene

> training " that is recognized by the courts, and enroll yourself in

a

> state-approved " police karate " course.

>

> Otherwise, you'll get someone like on your jury who has

only seen

> movies, and you'll get yourself landed in jail because of

your " lethal techniques " .

>

> Just stick with what's approved by the police council in

your state

> (ie. " come-along techniques " , self-defense and evasion).

>

> Later,

> S.

> -

-----------

> -

>

> In a message dated 8/1/2005 4:59:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> docspeed2001 writes:

>

>

> > --- , james wilson <johntwo8> wrote:

> > > Hello and how r u? the best thing is traditional karate. the

very

> > >basics. these simple princepals will take u a far as u will

ever

> > >need.

> >

> > Really?

> >

> > Maybe you can help me out a bit.