You can be sued for clenching a fist!!!

[Guest guest]

--- , J. Richard Kirkham <tutor2000> wrote:

 

> > > Oh, Mr. Wilson!

> > > You opened a traditional can of worms, here.

> > > I still say that I'd stick with the

> > > " less-than-lethal, self-defene

> > > training " that is recognized by the courts, and

> > >enroll yourself in

> > >a state-approved > " police karate " course.

 

> > Interesting, though I do disagree.

 

> I'm going to have to disagree as well and repeat a

> quote I heard

 

> Better to be tried by 12 than carried by six

 

Hi Rick,

 

You seem to be quoting me, from one of my books, circa 1979.

 

I'm pretty sure I got it from Jeff Cooper at one of his handgun

trainings in the mid 70's.

 

Regardless, it's still a great quote.

 

 

Ps. I love people that train whimpy. It makes winning easier for

those of us who train correctly;-)

 

healingenergies-

essentialskills , " docspeed2001 " <docspeed2001>

wrote:

> > Oh, Mr. Wilson!

> > You opened a traditional can of worms, here.

> > I still say that I'd stick with the " less-than-lethal, self-

defene

> > training " that is recognized by the courts, and enroll yourself

in

> >a state-approved > " police karate " course.

>

> Interesting, though I do disagree.

>

> And my disagreement is based upon many, many years of training

cops,

> of training military, of training a few mercenaries and of

training

> civilians.

>

> Here's why I disagree. NOT in not doing that, but in, " it's just

NOT

> enough " .

>

> Here it is.

>

> Cops, Law Enforcement, blab, blab, blab, have DIFFERENT RULES for

> what they will teach others and what they learn themselves!

>

> Cops don't want non-cops to learn the lethal secrets, mainly

because

> they fear two things.

>

> FEAR #1. Cops fear the legal repercussions " if " you use THEIR

> TRAININGS improperly, so in defense of their own asses, they don't

> train civilians in real skills. Cops don't want to get sued

because

> one of their students misused the self-defense skills.

>

> FEAR #2. Cops fear that evil people might come to them for

training,

> so they never teach civilians anything good enough to use against

> them, the cops.

>

> In fact the above fear is prevalent among traditional martial arts

> trainers also and has been ever since martial arts have existed;-)

>

> Anyway, any course that is police approved has most, if not all of

> the most effective technologies removed. Verified. Fact. Proven.

> Just ask any cop, or any cop trainer. For that matter, ask any

hard-

> core criminal. The only ones that don't seem to know that are the

> civilians that have had no military training.

>

> > Otherwise, you'll get someone like on your jury who has only

seen

> > movies, and you'll get yourself landed in jail because of

> > your " lethal techniques " .

>

> Sorry.

>

> Even the non-lethal-force trainings are under that stigma. You can

> be sued for clenching a fist!!!

>

> You can be sued for using a LOUD TONE OF VOICE!!!

>

> So, maybe it's more effective to learn what to do and say to cops

> AFTER you've saved you own butt in a lethal encounter.

>

> The good news is, most lethal encounters, i.e., like a genuine

> ambush with a gun happens in less than 1% of killings. The rest of

> the time, if you are taught proper calibration skills and don't

get

> complacent, you really do have a 99% chance of controlling the

> situation IF you are training in proper strategies and tactics.

>

> So, " YES " knowing what to say after you'll survived the encounter

is

> very important, but does NOT take precedence over surviving the

> encounter. Many of those tactics are in the book " Mental Training

of

> a Warrior " ...Other of those tactics are in " Ninja Mind Warrior

> Mentality for Street Combat " ...

>

> ...and there are some CLASSIFIED POLICE BOOKS out there that do

one

> hell of a good job of going over them. Books like " Street Survival

> Tactics for Armed Encounters " , and others of that life from

Caliber

> Press.

>

>

> > Just stick with what's approved by the police council in your

> >state (ie. " come-along >techniques " , self-defense and evasion).

>

> Well, that is a possibility…

>

> ...but...

>

> Let's look at what Roy wants, if that is okay since that his

> original concern.

>

> >I recently became a Bail Recovery Agent and although I can carry a

> >weapon and no doubt there are times when a pistol is a good thing

to

> >have,

>

> He is going out after CRIMINALS! People that have run from the

cops

> AFTER BEING out on bail.

>

> These fellows are NOT huggy feely.

>

> And, him attempting to use a traditional approach (whatever one

the

> Mr. Wilson <I think he's a teenage> is speaking about) will

probably

> get him in deep caca.

>

> Traditional approaches, NONE of them, have what Roy needs and Roy

> wants.

>

> Now here's the real hairy part.

>

> Come-alongs DON'T WORK unless you know the 9 different types of

> nerve cavity strikes and the 4 methods of applying them.

>

> Come-alongs DON'T WORK unless you are much stronger than the perp

> (the old jiujutsu master's said, " be 2-1/2 times as strong as the

> civilian " ), and the perp is caught off-guard.

>

> Come-alongs DON'T WORK unless you lock the joint, and then gently

> move the joint or the vibrational point every 1-2 seconds so that

> the pain receptors keep on firing.

>

> Of course you can just lock and break the joint then move them by

> that BROKEN JOINT. Broken joints as a fulcrum of pain compliance

> works well.

>

> Unfortunately the opposing lawyer will then have you under charges

> for mayhem.

>

> >I would much rather deal with any up-close difficulties in a way

> >which is not so violent but just as effective in rendering a

person

> >helpless so that I might take them into custody.

>

> Here I infer that Roy just doesn't want to shoot anyone, unless

it's

> necessary.

>

> I do suggest Roy get proper training in when " it's okay to shoot

the

> absconder " , and get the certification that shows he's had the

> training.

>

> Just some of the CYA that anyone in that field would be smart to

go

> through.

>

> >There are so many styles out there that it is confusing to me to

try

> >and find one which will give me the results I need.

>

> >I do not have time to take a long drawn out learning process

since I

> >need to be able to apply some techniques in a short time from now.

>

> Massad Ayoob has some neat quickee courses that will help.

>

> So does Caliber Press.

>

> There are others, but I've been out of that field for a few years

so

> I'm not up on the current " whiz boys " of the police combative arts.

>

> >I dont know if age or size matters as far being more compatible

to a

> >certain style but I am 52 and 6'.

>

> It sure does!

>

> Size, strength, knowledge and attitude ALL really count. So does

> proper street wise training.

>

> The triangle of Police Survival is, 1)Mental/physical

conditioning,

> 2)tactics and then, 3)shooting skill.

>

> Just be darn sure you learn those proper skills and the rules that

> society has that goes with them.

>

> Otherwise, when you get in a situation, AND YOU WILL...

>

> ...you don't want your lack of confidence in your abilities to

> conduct yourself properly in risky situations to become panic born

> of desperation.

>

> I've clients that get in 3-11 tussles an evening...and they do it

> lawfully without violating the perps rights.

>

> You can learn to do the same.

>

> >I dont wish to necessarily hurt anyone, but at the same time I

want

> >it over quickly and with as little trouble as possible.

>

> Well Roy, you'd better rethink this through.

>

> Because, if you don't IN ADVANCE work out what you need to do,

then,

> when you need to do it you won't be able to do anything.

>

> A basic law of cognition for combat.

>

> The harder you prepare BEFORE COMBAT, the MORE YOU SWEAT BEFORE

THE

> FIGHT, the easier the real street situation then becomes. Then a

> street situation just becomes " old hat " ...nothing to it.

>

>

> Ps. If I can help on anything, let me know.

>

> > Later,

> > S.

>

> --- , federalprisoncop@w... wrote:

> > Oh, Mr. Wilson!

> >

> > You opened a traditional can of worms, here.

> >

> > I still say that I'd stick with the " less-than-lethal,

self-

> defene

> > training " that is recognized by the courts, and enroll yourself

in

> a

> > state-approved " police karate " course.

> >

> > Otherwise, you'll get someone like on your jury who has

> only seen

> > movies, and you'll get yourself landed in jail because of

> your " lethal techniques " .

> >

> > Just stick with what's approved by the police council in

> your state

> > (ie. " come-along techniques " , self-defense and evasion).

> >

> > Later,

> > S.