I'd get Dr. Tiller's three very complex books

[Guest guest]

William,

 

To the modern scientist on average it is

not an accepted technique.

 

To any experimentalist (note anyone can

choose to be an experimentalist) that takes the time to do the drill and

determine if it works when done properly in a reproducible fashion, can others

independently be trained to do it, and can the theory be tested for negation

under the appropriate boundary conditions the answer is yes. Now, since by the

definitions of an experiment in science this is passing the requisite criteria

it is sufficient for an experimentalist to say that the drill works/fails.

 

As to voracity of the theory as to why it

works it is just one step in the process. In fact, the first experiment is just

one step in the process too and is actually hotly contended even now after 40

years.

 

I was not advocating accepted science

experiments that are published in journals as the only proof. Instead I was

offering a more pragmatic approach in which when existing science isn’t

available the person offering the theory presents an experiment that can be

done in the real world to determine if their theory is valid/invalid within the

limits their experiment allows for testing of the theory. There was a time

(before Einstein became famous) when physics journals wouldn’t publish a

theoretical paper unless it included proposed experiments to test the theory.

Einstein actually had to overcome this to publish his general relativity paper.

 

Then you can test it and evaluate the

relative merits of the theory for yourself rather than just take their word for

it because they said ‘blah blah blah’. Nor should just a set of

references to how many people said it works according to theory ’x’

be sufficient without experimental evidence either… Example: Aristotle,

then Ptolemy, and many dark and middle ages scholars taught that a heavier

weight will fall faster than a lighter weight. Galileo just didn’t

believe it without evidence so he tested it and found it to be false even

though scholars had claimed it for centuries. Another example, Columbus didn’t believe the prevailing

theory of a flat Earth…do I need to finish the story?

 

No, I didn’t say these things are

main stream science. I said that experimentalists like to have some testable

experiment to prove or negate theories and that the problem with many books on

the subject of consciousness was they don’t present experiments one can

do or that have been done by researchers and just expect you to take their

theory on ‘faith’.

 

Now as there are many such experiments you

asked for examples. I gave you two.

 

Does this clear up your confusion?

 

Have fun,

 

Walter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of William Leigh

Thursday, March 26, 2009

5:21 PM

To:

 

Subject:

Re: I'd get Dr. Tiller's three very complex

books

 

 

 

 

 

Walter Hurlbut,Doc and others,

 

Just to clarify:

 

Dr. Hurlburt mentioned two ways of validation. The first proved the non local

aspects of ESP by demonstrating ability to " read " playing cards from

outer space. I imagine that statistical methods were used to prove the

astronaut had consistent above average ability with ESP.

 

In the second method you mentioned the Zip Up technique that is verifiable with

energy testing. Then you further demonstrated that the Zip Up technique and

other techniques from Donna Eden also fall within the understanding of modern

science for improving health.

 

Does energy testing also fall within the understanding of modern science as a

validation process?

 

Sincerely,

 

William Leigh

 

,

" Walter Hurlbut " <whurlbut wrote:

>

> Hi Group,

>

>

>

> Verifiable experiments come in many forms.

>

>

>

> One experiment that an Apollo astronaut did was to test whether his ESP

> decreased with distance. So he did the card type experiment where one

person

> looks at a card and the other (the astronaut at the moon) attempts to pick

> up what the card is and writes down his 'guess'. And then he picked cards

> for the psychic on earth to 'guess'.

>

>

>

> Their success rate was still above probability and the same over the 8 day

> journey. If it were energy transmission rather than quantum data

> teleportation via entanglement the skill would have dropped with the

square

> of the distance just like any radiating wave from a source whether we are

> talking electromagnetic or gravity. As the energy of such a source spreads

> out the surface area the energy is spread upon grows as the square of the

> distance. At some point the reception would drop and introduce errors.

> Consider how fast your radio sources drop off as you move away from them

and

> then realize that they are typically radiating with 50,000 to 100,000

watts.

> That's >60 horsepower just to put it in perspective for you for what it

> would be like as a mechanical energy.

>

>

>

> And if the human nervous system were sensitive enough to receive the

signal

> at a quarter of a million miles away then at a few miles we would all be

> perfect telepaths. This was very conclusive proof that the phenomenon was

> nonlocal.

>

>

>

> Another simple experiment that verifies the electrodynamic nature of the

> energy fields that are known to have limited range is the zipping up and

> down technique Doc demonstrates and verifies with energy testing. The more

> one is in an alpha-theta state of mind while doing this the better. It is

> interesting to note that one of the signs of this state of mind is red

eyes

> due to increased relaxation of the arteries and veins resulting in

increased

> blood flow. One can add the experiment of doing this same drill with

extreme

> tension versus relaxing the arm and hand as much as possible and note the

> increased effectiveness in that as well.

>

>

>

> And why is increase blood flow important to me as a major component of the

> theory relating the shorter range energy fields of the body? Because blood

> is an electrolyte (mixture of free charges of both positive and negative

> types with different masses and charges) AKA plasma. So the behavior of a

> moving plasma at low temperatures is quite well known. And the magnetic

and

> electric fields that are generated by the motion are calculable. The

> interaction of such is in line with the results of this drill. Moving in

> opposition to the central field with a sharply shaped field results in

> retardation of flow and thus decreased available energy and increased

> tension losses as well is an involuntary response in the body to constrict

> arteries and decrease blood flow. (I wonder what that would do to

> suggestibility when the frontal lobe gets less blood). When one moves in

the

> direction consistent with the blood flow it increases ones' strength and

> helps to protect from suggestibility. And that movement over other lines

in

> the body that correspond to either both or one of the two following plasma

> systems in the body seems to correspond just as well: blood, lymphatic.

>

>

>

> These small fields are now within the range of measurement and scientist

> around the world are building detectors and measuring them. I know one

> plasma physicist that was cooperating in a grant to build such detectors 9

> years ago. He never sent me the results of the study. But there was a book

> recently published and listed in a scientific journal I read about exactly

> these types of measurements. I immediately referred it to Doc and he

> subsequently ordered it.

>

>

>

> There is a lot of new information coming out on top of the older

suppressed

> information in many areas. I suspect much of the new information will

result

> in a new wave of information suppression and disinformation as has always

> been done in the past.

>

>

>

> Anyway.

>

>

>

> Most people writing books on consciousness propose theories as to what

> consciousness is but no experiments that can confirm/negate the theories.

>

>

>

> The first experiment I mentioned confirms non-locality and since the only

> identified measureable area of physics known to have that quality

> (nonlocality) at this time is the well experimentally verified quantum

> theory we can conclude that it is the only remaining branch of physics

with

> a chance to explain consciousness from that experiment alone. Although

that

> isn't the only experiment to suggest consciousness is quantum mechanical

in

> nature. It is just an example of an experimental verification procedure

that

> most books on this subject lack. The second experiment demonstrates the

> properties of our body that tie the physical to the quantum

> mechanical/consciousness realm.

>

>

>

> I could do far more examples.but I think I will save that for a book

> someday.

>

>

>

> Hopefully, I gave you all some simple food for thought on the subject of

> reproducible verifiable experimentation to back up your claims

>

>

>

> Walter

>

>

>

> PS as a parting comment I find the recent studies on the placebo effect

> demonstrate some interesting information that suggests the placebo effect

is

> actually several different effects and that the importance of it is much

> greater to science than is currently considered by your standard

physicians

> who still haven't learned to understand Einstein's famous comment,

" the

> observer affects what he observes " .

>

>

>

> _____

>

>

>

On Behalf Of

> William Leigh

> Tuesday, March 24, 2009 11:41 AM

>

> Re: I'd get Dr. Tiller's

three

> very complex books

>

>

>

> Thanks for your book recommendations. I will check out Quantum Reality

soon.

>

>

> The part of your post that most grabbed my attention was:

>

> " They are well written but they lack one thing that experimentalists

such as

> Doc and myself like and that's experiments we can do in the real world to

> verify his thought experiments on what consciousness is. "

>

> Could you explain this a little more?

>

> Many popular modern modalities are practiced with little validation. They

> are often practiced for entertainment and sometimes give valid experience.

> It is the hope of practitioners to actually perform a " Miracle "

of healing,

> but we all know that this is often not the outcome.

>

> So what experiments can you do in the real world to validate

consciousness?

> Where have you been successful? Which areas show promise?

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> William

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Greg! the titles below are what i missed lol I just saw ""very complex books"and knew i was missing something lol tanks again danah--- On Wed, 4/1/09, Gregory <gdradke wrote:

Gregory <gdradke Re: I'd get Dr. Tiller's three very complex books Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 3:52 AM

 

 

Dana,You might check the archive or back post of this group... or go to amazon.com and search for "William A. Tiller Ph.D."Psychoenergetic Science; Science and Human Transformation: Subtle Energies, Intentionality and Consciousness; Conscious Acts of CreationGreghealingenergies- essentialskills, Dana Hawkins <amebameows@ ...> wrote:>> Hi Walter ,I must of missed your book titles but am interested could you please re-post?.Have you done anything with vortex theory"s with quantum electromagnetic unified field and consciousness? I have heard about someone who has noticed that everyone has a lil vortex on the back of their head right in line with the third eye area

thank you Dana p.s. interesting letter I enjoyed it very much> > --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Walter Hurlbut <whurlbut@.. .> wrote:> > > Walter Hurlbut <whurlbut@.. .>> RE: [healingenergies- essentialskills] Re: I'd get Dr. Tiller's three very complex books> healingenergies- essentialskills> Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:54 AM> > > > > > > > > Hi Group,> > Verifiable experiments come in many forms. > > One experiment that an Apollo astronaut did was to test whether his ESP decreased with distance. So he did the card type

experiment where one person looks at a card and the other (the astronaut at the moon) attempts to pick up what the card is and writes down his ‘guess’. And then he picked cards for the psychic on earth to ‘guess’. > > Their success rate was still above probability and the same over the 8 day journey. If it were energy transmission rather than quantum data teleportation via entanglement the skill would have dropped with the square of the distance just like any radiating wave from a source whether we are talking electromagnetic or gravity. As the energy of such a source spreads out the surface area the energy is spread upon grows as the square of the distance. At some point the reception would drop and introduce errors. Consider how fast your radio sources drop off as you move away from them and then realize that they are typically radiating with 50,000 to 100,000 watts. That’s >60 horsepower just to put it in perspective

for you for what it would be like as a mechanical energy. > > And if the human nervous system were sensitive enough to receive the signal at a quarter of a million miles away then at a few miles we would all be perfect telepaths. This was very conclusive proof that the phenomenon was nonlocal. > > Another simple experiment that verifies the electrodynamic nature of the energy fields that are known to have limited range is the zipping up and down technique Doc demonstrates and verifies with energy testing. The more one is in an alpha-theta state of mind while doing this the better. It is interesting to note that one of the signs of this state of mind is red eyes due to increased relaxation of the arteries and veins resulting in increased blood flow. One can add the experiment of doing this same drill with extreme tension versus relaxing the arm and hand as much as possible and note the increased effectiveness in

that as well. > > And why is increase blood flow important to me as a major component of the theory relating the shorter range energy fields of the body? Because blood is an electrolyte (mixture of free charges of both positive and negative types with different masses and charges) AKA plasma. So the behavior of a moving plasma at low temperatures is quite well known. And the magnetic and electric fields that are generated by the motion are calculable. The interaction of such is in line with the results of this drill. Moving in opposition to the central field with a sharply shaped field results in retardation of flow and thus decreased available energy and increased tension losses as well is an involuntary response in the body to constrict arteries and decrease blood flow. (I wonder what that would do to suggestibility when the frontal lobe gets less blood). When one moves in the direction consistent with the blood flow it increases

ones’ strength and helps to protect> from suggestibility. And that movement over other lines in the body that correspond to either both or one of the two following plasma systems in the body seems to correspond just as well: blood, lymphatic.> > These small fields are now within the range of measurement and scientist around the world are building detectors and measuring them. I know one plasma physicist that was cooperating in a grant to build such detectors 9 years ago. He never sent me the results of the study. But there was a book recently published and listed in a scientific journal I read about exactly these types of measurements. I immediately referred it to Doc and he subsequently ordered it.> > There is a lot of new information coming out on top of the older suppressed information in many areas. I suspect much of the new information will result in a new wave of information suppression and

disinformation as has always been done in the past.> > Anyway…> > Most people writing books on consciousness propose theories as to what consciousness is but no experiments that can confirm/negate the theories.> > The first experiment I mentioned confirms non-locality and since the only identified measureable area of physics known to have that quality (nonlocality) at this time is the well experimentally verified quantum theory we can conclude that it is the only remaining branch of physics with a chance to explain consciousness from that experiment alone. Although that isn’t the only experiment to suggest consciousness is quantum mechanical in nature. It is just an example of an experimental verification procedure that most books on this subject lack. The second experiment demonstrates the properties of our body that tie the physical to the quantum mechanical/consciou sness realm.>

> I could do far more examples…but I think I will save that for a book someday.> > Hopefully, I gave you all some simple food for thought on the subject of reproducible verifiable experimentation to back up your claims> > Walter> > PS as a parting comment I find the recent studies on the placebo effect demonstrate some interesting information that suggests the placebo effect is actually several different effects and that the importance of it is much greater to science than is currently considered by your standard physicians who still haven’t learned to understand Einstein’s famous comment, “the observer affects what he observesâ€.> > > > > > healingenergies- essentialskills [healingener gies-essentialsk ills@ .com] On Behalf Of William Leigh> Tuesday, March 24, 2009 11:41

AM> healingenergies- essentialskills> [healingenergies- essentialskills] Re: I'd get Dr. Tiller's three very complex books> > > > > Thanks for your book recommendations. I will check out Quantum Reality soon.. > > The part of your post that most grabbed my attention was:> > "They are well written but they lack one thing that experimentalists such as Doc and myself like and that's experiments we can do in the real world to verify his thought experiments on what consciousness is."> > Could you explain this a little more?> > Many popular modern modalities are practiced with little validation. They are often practiced for entertainment and sometimes give valid experience. It is the hope of practitioners to actually perform a "Miracle" of healing, but we all know that this is often not the outcome.> > So

what experiments can you do in the real world to validate consciousness? Where have you been successful? Which areas show promise?> > Thanks in advance,> > William>