Guest guest Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Hi Ilhan305, Great information. However, your source talks about eating seeds, long known to be a moistener and yin tonic, not smoking the buds. The seeds contain very little to no THC, the psychoactive drug in marijuana. I agree that hemp is one of the world's wonder plants with countless redeeming qualities. And perhaps your side effects of lack of motivation, weak legs etc. would be gone if you resorted to eating the seeds or putting them in decoction instead of smoking the buds. But, as we all know, while one part of a plant may be medicinal, another may not be or may have very different effects. I have no quarrel with people smoking marijuana recreationally--I think it should be legal. But you still have not convinced me that it is healthful to smoke the buds for a person who is sick. The healing qualities are contained within the seeds. Otherwise there would be references to smoking or eating or decocting the buds in the classical literature. Can you find such to convince me? I'd love to be proven wrong on this as I used to enjoy it's effects no end in my younger days. Thanks, Shanna acupuncture , " ilhan305 " <ilhan305> wrote: > Here I have copied and pasted an article about canabis used as a > strong yin tonic back when it was legally used. To my conclusion Ma- > fen aka marijuana is the most superior yin tonic ever. Much stronger > then rehmannia or american ginseng or any other yin tonic. I believe > it is so strong that it should be used moderately to avoid excess > yin problems. The anger and aggression that is caused by marijauan > withdrawal is a side effect of the yin level falling down to normal > from the abscence of marijuana raising yang levels. Thus yin > deficiency symptoms appear. But I believe if marijauna is used right > it should do a great deal of help to the body. I do not have heart > yin deficiency allthough marijuana has given me stomach yin > deficiency, but eating mangoes and pork seem to help a whole lot for > that. The yang deficiency symptoms i felt were actually excess yin > symptoms. Too much marijuana consumption can cause excess yin > problems wich I have faced, felling sleepy, unmotivated, weak legs... > I am calling it excess yin instead of yang deficiency because my > body didnt feel cold and I had no problems gaining an erection etc. > I am still not sure if I am correct but that is what I am thinking > it is. For the people who say marijauna is expensive prices vary, > here an ounce goes for 70$, it is worth it for helping me build up > all the yin I have lost. Now I have stopped marijuana consumption or > I simply smoke it very occasionally, I feel a whole lot healthier > then since when I havent smoked it before. I am weightlifting wich > is helping me a great deal and increasing my body yang. Allthough I > did notice I now have a slight lung yin deficiency. I dont have > problems with anemia anymore. I have gained some weight due to > wieght lifting. I feel overall a whole lot better then before. But > besides marijauana I have taken probiotics wich have also helped me > a whole lot. I have a darker and healthier complexion in my face. > Overall I look a whole lot healthier then before. Ofcoarse I still > have symptoms of kidney deficiency and spleen deficiency but not as > bad as before. Dampness seems to be my main concern now, i am going > to start taking fu ling. The humidity down here is extremely high > with a dew point of 74F average, basicly a steam room compared to > the average 68F dew point in New York. I believe if I move to a > drier climate my health will improve greately, but I cant. Anyway > below is an article on cannabis and chinese medicine I believe would > give you all a second opinion on marijuana and yin tonic. > > Shen-Nung, a legendary emperor who ruled in China around 2800 BC, is > traditionally credited with introducing medicines to Chinese > culture. It is said that Shen-Nung had a transparent abdomen, and > intentionally ingested as many as 70 different plants per day so he > could watch their effects and discover their various qualities. He > identified hundreds of different medicines compiled in the oldest > known medicinal text entitled the Pen Ts'ao. For that he was deified > and acclaimed the father of Chinese medicine. Prior to the > reorganization of China as a communist country, many drug stores > offered periodic discounts in honor of Shen-Nung. > > According to the Pen Ts'ao, ma-fen, the flowering tops of female > cannabis plants, contain the greatest amount of yin energy; yin > being the receptive female dynamic attribute linked with yang, the > creative male element in traditional Chinese philosophy and > medicine. Ma-fen was thus prescribed in cases of a loss of yin, such > as in menstrual fatigue, rheumatism, malaria, beri-beri, > constipation, and absentmindedness. The Pen Ts'ao warns that if too > many Ma seeds were eaten it could cause one to see demons, but if > taken over a long period of time, eating cannabis seeds could enable > one to communicate with spirits. Shen-Nung also instructed the > people in the cultivation of hemp for clothing and textiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Hi Ilhan305! The seeds are called huo ma ren, BTW. Is ma fen recommended for smoking or decoction in the classics? Glad you're protecting your jing with ashwagandha--I've heard wonderful things about that herb. But I'm still puzzled as to why any herb could be claimed to increase yin/blood but deplete jing? Could it not be that the relative yin/yang balance has been disturbed by jing depletion accounting for the " damp " signs (pathologic yin excess)? I think it's important to distinguish between pathological yin/yang additions to the body and physiological yin/yang supplementation. It is my understanding that all true yin/yang supplements also increase jing either directly or indirectly at some level eventually. Also, although I don't have a complete picture of your case, I haven't heard you talk about any yin/yang vacuity symptoms with respect to any of your ills except with respect to the changes in jing you experince with ma fen use. Could it be that you actually have a physiologic excess which needs to be cleared and that ma fen is " moving the qi " in the short term (as my teacher Dr. Wu suggests) giving you a greater sense of well being? This seem especially possible given your age (you said 21?). Is the Stomach Yin vacuity side effect you report actually perhaps Stomach Heat (communicated by way of the Lung-Stomach yang ming relationship by smoking)? Weak legs (which you reported), it is my understanding, are a sign of vacuity (jing, qi, yang or even yin/essence) while heavy legs would be damp repletion. Yes sleepiness could be damp but could also be due to the above vacuities as well. Most of the time these side effects are experienced as the person is " coming down " from the effects of smoking pot--just like the feeling of being " run over by a truck " after cocaine binges. High energy and feeling of wellbeing with use and then a " crash " afterward. Again, instant gains in true yin/yang are not the rule. Supplementation takes time. Clearing excess can, however, be much quicker and once this is accomplished things like energy level and strength can return very rapidly. Heat consumes the qi, damp blocks the flow of qi, so one can experience low energy and other apparent vacuity symptoms during periods of repletion. The correct strategy (most school's agree) is to clear repletions first and then address any vacuities which may be left, or to simultaneously clear and supplement if both are equally severe. Good luck with your continuing search for health and well being. Thanks, Shanna acupuncture , " ilhan305 " <ilhan305> wrote: > " ma fen " is the flowering top not the seeds. The seeds are Ma > somthing else. But I seem to agree that Marijuana does decrease > jing, but at the same time it increases yin and blood levels. I > believe Marijauana is a strong liver tonic, and increases blood a > great deal. More then any other herb that I have tried. If you > search for sickle cell anemia and marijauan combined you will come > up with lots of results. For now I am taking ashwagandha to increase > my jing levels and it is helping me a whole lot. I am casually using > marijuana as a medicine but continuesly taking ashwagandha. I feel > so much better then before. I do agree that marijuana decreases > jing, but I disagree that it does not increas liver blood. I think > that marijauan is the one of the strongest if not the strongest > blood tonic herb available. > Ashwagandha also is a great herb I consider everyone living in a > tropical climate to take also. > > acupuncture , " shannahickle " > <shannahickle> wrote: > > Hi Ilhan305, > > > > Great information. However, your source talks about eating seeds, > > long known to be a moistener and yin tonic, not smoking the buds. > > The seeds contain very little to no THC, the psychoactive drug in > > marijuana. I agree that hemp is one of the world's wonder plants > > with countless redeeming qualities. And perhaps your side effects > of > > lack of motivation, weak legs etc. would be gone if you resorted > to > > eating the seeds or putting them in decoction instead of smoking > the > > buds. But, as we all know, while one part of a plant may be > > medicinal, another may not be or may have very different effects. > I > > have no quarrel with people smoking marijuana recreationally--I > > think it should be legal. But you still have not convinced me that > > it is healthful to smoke the buds for a person who is sick. The > > healing qualities are contained within the seeds. Otherwise there > > would be references to smoking or eating or decocting the buds in > > the classical literature. Can you find such to convince me? I'd > love > > to be proven wrong on this as I used to enjoy it's effects no end > in > > my younger days. > > Thanks, Shanna > > > > acupuncture , " ilhan305 " <ilhan305> > wrote: > > > Here I have copied and pasted an article about canabis used as a > > > strong yin tonic back when it was legally used. To my conclusion > > Ma- > > > fen aka marijuana is the most superior yin tonic ever. Much > > stronger > > > then rehmannia or american ginseng or any other yin tonic. I > > believe > > > it is so strong that it should be used moderately to avoid > excess > > > yin problems. The anger and aggression that is caused by > marijauan > > > withdrawal is a side effect of the yin level falling down to > > normal > > > from the abscence of marijuana raising yang levels. Thus yin > > > deficiency symptoms appear. But I believe if marijauna is used > > right > > > it should do a great deal of help to the body. I do not have > heart > > > yin deficiency allthough marijuana has given me stomach yin > > > deficiency, but eating mangoes and pork seem to help a whole lot > > for > > > that. The yang deficiency symptoms i felt were actually excess > yin > > > symptoms. Too much marijuana consumption can cause excess yin > > > problems wich I have faced, felling sleepy, unmotivated, weak > > legs... > > > I am calling it excess yin instead of yang deficiency because my > > > body didnt feel cold and I had no problems gaining an erection > > etc. > > > I am still not sure if I am correct but that is what I am > thinking > > > it is. For the people who say marijauna is expensive prices > vary, > > > here an ounce goes for 70$, it is worth it for helping me build > up > > > all the yin I have lost. Now I have stopped marijuana > consumption > > or > > > I simply smoke it very occasionally, I feel a whole lot > healthier > > > then since when I havent smoked it before. I am weightlifting > wich > > > is helping me a great deal and increasing my body yang. > Allthough > > I > > > did notice I now have a slight lung yin deficiency. I dont have > > > problems with anemia anymore. I have gained some weight due to > > > wieght lifting. I feel overall a whole lot better then before. > But > > > besides marijauana I have taken probiotics wich have also helped > > me > > > a whole lot. I have a darker and healthier complexion in my > face. > > > Overall I look a whole lot healthier then before. Ofcoarse I > still > > > have symptoms of kidney deficiency and spleen deficiency but not > > as > > > bad as before. Dampness seems to be my main concern now, i am > > going > > > to start taking fu ling. The humidity down here is extremely > high > > > with a dew point of 74F average, basicly a steam room compared > to > > > the average 68F dew point in New York. I believe if I move to a > > > drier climate my health will improve greately, but I cant. > Anyway > > > below is an article on cannabis and chinese medicine I believe > > would > > > give you all a second opinion on marijuana and yin tonic. > > > > > > Shen-Nung, a legendary emperor who ruled in China around 2800 > BC, > > is > > > traditionally credited with introducing medicines to Chinese > > > culture. It is said that Shen-Nung had a transparent abdomen, > and > > > intentionally ingested as many as 70 different plants per day so > > he > > > could watch their effects and discover their various qualities. > He > > > identified hundreds of different medicines compiled in the > oldest > > > known medicinal text entitled the Pen Ts'ao. For that he was > > deified > > > and acclaimed the father of Chinese medicine. Prior to the > > > reorganization of China as a communist country, many drug stores > > > offered periodic discounts in honor of Shen-Nung. > > > > > > According to the Pen Ts'ao, ma-fen, the flowering tops of female > > > cannabis plants, contain the greatest amount of yin energy; yin > > > being the receptive female dynamic attribute linked with yang, > the > > > creative male element in traditional Chinese philosophy and > > > medicine. Ma-fen was thus prescribed in cases of a loss of yin, > > such > > > as in menstrual fatigue, rheumatism, malaria, beri-beri, > > > constipation, and absentmindedness. The Pen Ts'ao warns that if > > too > > > many Ma seeds were eaten it could cause one to see demons, but > if > > > taken over a long period of time, eating cannabis seeds could > > enable > > > one to communicate with spirits. Shen-Nung also instructed the > > > people in the cultivation of hemp for clothing and textiles. 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Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Yes you make great sense in what you write thank you very much for your help. I am taking ashwagandha it seems to help increas my blood too, not as strong as marijuana but it does. Marijuana like you said helps you short term. It is more for people with an excess kidney. I dont have this. Marijauan did increas my blood but when I stopped using it it went back down. So the blood increas was not long lasting. I believe that it steals the enerjy from kindeys and transfering it to the liver. ANd the rest of it to your head to give you the high. But since your kindeys become depleted eventually your liver blood does too. I recommend marijuana for temporary use. It is not a good herb to take frequently, but when used short term for the right reasons it is helpful to the body. Ashwagandha is an incredible herb. It is far better then American Ginseng to me. Ofcoarse everyone has a different body type. I believe like you said my main problem is kidney deficiency, that led to dampness and spleen deficiency. Ashwagandha is slowly restoring me. I am feeling better day by day, I am also taking asafoetida to help digest certain foods, since Ashwagandha is hard to digest when taken mixed with milk. By far I believe the best herb I have taken is Ashwagandha. And the best digestive herb is asafoetida. I recomend these herbs to everyone that suffer from my symptoms. If you have anemia marijauana will help you short term. But Ashwagandha seems to have longer lasting effects according to what is written about it. You are very right about that crash symptom shanna, but herbs like ashwagandha do not have that. You all have a nice day! acupuncture , " shannahickle " <shannahickle> wrote: > Hi Ilhan305! > > The seeds are called huo ma ren, BTW. > Is ma fen recommended for smoking or decoction in the classics? Glad > you're protecting your jing with ashwagandha--I've heard wonderful > things about that herb. But I'm still puzzled as to why any herb > could be claimed to increase yin/blood but deplete jing? Could it > not be that the relative yin/yang balance has been disturbed by jing > depletion accounting for the " damp " signs (pathologic yin excess)? I > think it's important to distinguish between pathological yin/yang > additions to the body and physiological yin/yang supplementation. It > is my understanding that all true yin/yang supplements also increase > jing either directly or indirectly at some level eventually. Also, > although I don't have a complete picture of your case, I haven't > heard you talk about any yin/yang vacuity symptoms with respect to > any of your ills except with respect to the changes in jing you > experince with ma fen use. Could it be that you actually have a > physiologic excess which needs to be cleared and that ma fen > is " moving the qi " in the short term (as my teacher Dr. Wu suggests) > giving you a greater sense of well being? This seem especially > possible given your age (you said 21?). Is the Stomach Yin vacuity > side effect you report actually perhaps Stomach Heat (communicated > by way of the Lung-Stomach yang ming relationship by smoking)? Weak > legs (which you reported), it is my understanding, are a sign of > vacuity (jing, qi, yang or even yin/essence) while heavy legs would > be damp repletion. Yes sleepiness could be damp but could also be > due to the above vacuities as well. Most of the time these side > effects are experienced as the person is " coming down " from the > effects of smoking pot--just like the feeling of being " run over by > a truck " after cocaine binges. High energy and feeling of wellbeing > with use and then a " crash " afterward. Again, instant gains in true > yin/yang are not the rule. Supplementation takes time. Clearing > excess can, however, be much quicker and once this is accomplished > things like energy level and strength can return very rapidly. Heat > consumes the qi, damp blocks the flow of qi, so one can experience > low energy and other apparent vacuity symptoms during periods of > repletion. The correct strategy (most school's agree) is to clear > repletions first and then address any vacuities which may be left, > or to simultaneously clear and supplement if both are equally > severe. Good luck with your continuing search for health and well > being. > > Thanks, Shanna > > acupuncture , " ilhan305 " <ilhan305> wrote: > > " ma fen " is the flowering top not the seeds. The seeds are Ma > > somthing else. But I seem to agree that Marijuana does decrease > > jing, but at the same time it increases yin and blood levels. I > > believe Marijauana is a strong liver tonic, and increases blood a > > great deal. More then any other herb that I have tried. If you > > search for sickle cell anemia and marijauan combined you will come > > up with lots of results. For now I am taking ashwagandha to > increase > > my jing levels and it is helping me a whole lot. I am casually > using > > marijuana as a medicine but continuesly taking ashwagandha. I feel > > so much better then before. I do agree that marijuana decreases > > jing, but I disagree that it does not increas liver blood. I think > > that marijauan is the one of the strongest if not the strongest > > blood tonic herb available. > > Ashwagandha also is a great herb I consider everyone living in a > > tropical climate to take also. > > > > acupuncture , " shannahickle " > > <shannahickle> wrote: > > > Hi Ilhan305, > > > > > > Great information. However, your source talks about eating > seeds, > > > long known to be a moistener and yin tonic, not smoking the > buds. > > > The seeds contain very little to no THC, the psychoactive drug > in > > > marijuana. I agree that hemp is one of the world's wonder plants > > > with countless redeeming qualities. And perhaps your side > effects > > of > > > lack of motivation, weak legs etc. would be gone if you resorted > > to > > > eating the seeds or putting them in decoction instead of smoking > > the > > > buds. But, as we all know, while one part of a plant may be > > > medicinal, another may not be or may have very different > effects. > > I > > > have no quarrel with people smoking marijuana recreationally-- I > > > think it should be legal. But you still have not convinced me > that > > > it is healthful to smoke the buds for a person who is sick. The > > > healing qualities are contained within the seeds. Otherwise > there > > > would be references to smoking or eating or decocting the buds > in > > > the classical literature. Can you find such to convince me? I'd > > love > > > to be proven wrong on this as I used to enjoy it's effects no > end > > in > > > my younger days. > > > Thanks, Shanna > > > > > > acupuncture , " ilhan305 " <ilhan305> > > wrote: > > > > Here I have copied and pasted an article about canabis used as > a > > > > strong yin tonic back when it was legally used. To my > conclusion > > > Ma- > > > > fen aka marijuana is the most superior yin tonic ever. Much > > > stronger > > > > then rehmannia or american ginseng or any other yin tonic. I > > > believe > > > > it is so strong that it should be used moderately to avoid > > excess > > > > yin problems. The anger and aggression that is caused by > > marijauan > > > > withdrawal is a side effect of the yin level falling down to > > > normal > > > > from the abscence of marijuana raising yang levels. Thus yin > > > > deficiency symptoms appear. But I believe if marijauna is used > > > right > > > > it should do a great deal of help to the body. I do not have > > heart > > > > yin deficiency allthough marijuana has given me stomach yin > > > > deficiency, but eating mangoes and pork seem to help a whole > lot > > > for > > > > that. The yang deficiency symptoms i felt were actually excess > > yin > > > > symptoms. Too much marijuana consumption can cause excess yin > > > > problems wich I have faced, felling sleepy, unmotivated, weak > > > legs... > > > > I am calling it excess yin instead of yang deficiency because > my > > > > body didnt feel cold and I had no problems gaining an erection > > > etc. > > > > I am still not sure if I am correct but that is what I am > > thinking > > > > it is. For the people who say marijauna is expensive prices > > vary, > > > > here an ounce goes for 70$, it is worth it for helping me > build > > up > > > > all the yin I have lost. Now I have stopped marijuana > > consumption > > > or > > > > I simply smoke it very occasionally, I feel a whole lot > > healthier > > > > then since when I havent smoked it before. I am weightlifting > > wich > > > > is helping me a great deal and increasing my body yang. > > Allthough > > > I > > > > did notice I now have a slight lung yin deficiency. I dont > have > > > > problems with anemia anymore. I have gained some weight due to > > > > wieght lifting. I feel overall a whole lot better then before. > > But > > > > besides marijauana I have taken probiotics wich have also > helped > > > me > > > > a whole lot. I have a darker and healthier complexion in my > > face. > > > > Overall I look a whole lot healthier then before. Ofcoarse I > > still > > > > have symptoms of kidney deficiency and spleen deficiency but > not > > > as > > > > bad as before. Dampness seems to be my main concern now, i am > > > going > > > > to start taking fu ling. The humidity down here is extremely > > high > > > > with a dew point of 74F average, basicly a steam room compared > > to > > > > the average 68F dew point in New York. I believe if I move to > a > > > > drier climate my health will improve greately, but I cant. > > Anyway > > > > below is an article on cannabis and chinese medicine I believe > > > would > > > > give you all a second opinion on marijuana and yin tonic. > > > > > > > > Shen-Nung, a legendary emperor who ruled in China around 2800 > > BC, > > > is > > > > traditionally credited with introducing medicines to Chinese > > > > culture. It is said that Shen-Nung had a transparent abdomen, > > and > > > > intentionally ingested as many as 70 different plants per day > so > > > he > > > > could watch their effects and discover their various > qualities. > > He > > > > identified hundreds of different medicines compiled in the > > oldest > > > > known medicinal text entitled the Pen Ts'ao. For that he was > > > deified > > > > and acclaimed the father of Chinese medicine. Prior to the > > > > reorganization of China as a communist country, many drug > stores > > > > offered periodic discounts in honor of Shen-Nung. > > > > > > > > According to the Pen Ts'ao, ma-fen, the flowering tops of > female > > > > cannabis plants, contain the greatest amount of yin energy; > yin > > > > being the receptive female dynamic attribute linked with yang, > > the > > > > creative male element in traditional Chinese philosophy and > > > > medicine. Ma-fen was thus prescribed in cases of a loss of > yin, > > > such > > > > as in menstrual fatigue, rheumatism, malaria, beri-beri, > > > > constipation, and absentmindedness. The Pen Ts'ao warns that > if > > > too > > > > many Ma seeds were eaten it could cause one to see demons, but > > if > > > > taken over a long period of time, eating cannabis seeds could > > > enable > > > > one to communicate with spirits. Shen-Nung also instructed the > > > > people in the cultivation of hemp for clothing and textiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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