Guest guest Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 Preach it brother. I wholeheartedly agree. I buy raw organic apple juice in a gallon container and then use that was a water jug. I filter my own water, but rather than doing it one glass at a time I fill the glass jug. And I take my own water with me on outings in my designer Ball or Kerr jar. Smile. My dream is a world without plastic. Will anyone ever make a computer that isn't made of plastic. Could I afford a titanium one? No. Blessings Donna .. . . put a little love in your heart . . . http://www.excellentthings.net - Ed Siceloff Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:14 PM Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old I work in the glass industry. And this is a plug for the glass industry. Buy things bottled in glass. It keeps longer, and the glass does not put off any chemicals into your foodstuffs like the plastic containers all do. Same is true of water. And the water actually reacts with the plastic, as well as the food reacting with the plastic. This is true even of food grade plastics. The reason that the food grade plastic is "food grade plastic" is that it reacts less. But, when figuring how many one can buy that is stored in the plastic crap, one would have to figure that he is getting too much. The plastic is measured for how much of a particular gas it gives off over a certain amount of time. YOU are not measured for how much of those substances you are absorbing from everywhere. Sort of the same rationale goes into the licensing of incinerators, and smokestacks. They give off so much pollution (lets say dioxin) in a given area, so the EPA regulates how much a smokestack is permitted to give off. So, the industry just builds more of them. Rather than people regulating themselves in terms of how much pollution that they make from their consumption patterns, let the government regulate how the pollution is spread out to everybody. They get it all mixed up as to what the actual point is. It doesn't matter how much one smokestack puts out if one builds more smokestacks everywhere. And it doesn't matter how much a plastic bottle of water is reacting with the water if one is drinking from it all the time. Most of us are living in the modern world that prides itself on having utilities, including water. Just buy a water filter/purifier, and go back to NOT carrying your water to your home like your ancestors did. If you must use a container, use glass. Everything stores better in it, if you are required to store something in it. Ed - karl Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:45 PM Re: Bottled water is two years old ---those plastic bottles are gas permeable, so much for being sealed shut huh?karlIn , "luckypig" <luckypig@i...> wrote:> Bottled water is two years old > By Nilufer Atik, Evening Standard > 9 July 2003 > Bottled mineral water could be almost two years old by the time it is bought by consumers, it was revealed today. > > Supermarket shoppers who buy bottled water in the belief that it is fresher than tap water are unaware that it may in fact have sat on a warehouse shelf for most of its use-by date. > > Professor Jeni Colbourne, head of the Drinking Water Inspectorate-said: "People have a perception-that bottled water is fresh because it's been sealed in a bottle, unsullied by human hands. But in fact it has probably spent most of that time in hot warehouses and on hot supermarket shelves." > > In one warehouse, water was discovered which had been bottled up to 23 months ago. Water companies insist the airtight seals used on bottles mean they are still safe to drink even after two years. > > Jo Jacobius, of the Natural Mineral Water Information Service, which represents 13 brands including Evian, Perrier, Buxton and Highland Spring, said: "The water is fine to drink after two years. It is not going to go 'off ' and the mineral content is kept the same." > > http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/5648861?source=Evening%20Standard «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»NATIONWIDE DENTAL BENEFITS PACKAGE PLUSSAVE UP TO 80% on DENTAL, PRESCRIPTIONS DRUGS,GLASSES, CONTACTS, VISION CARE, & CHIROPRACTIC.$11.95 For Single or$19.95 For an entire household per month!Immediate Coverage * No Waiting Period Pre-existing Covered * No Limit on Benefits http://www.mybenefitsplus.com/MMerrill/ Email: MEM121«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§ - PULSE ON WORLD HEALTH CONSPIRACIES! §Subscribe:......... - To :.... - Any information here in is for educational purpose only, it may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. Always consult with a qualified health practitioner before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses.**COPYRIGHT NOTICE**In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 Bottled water is two years old By Nilufer Atik, Evening Standard 9 July 2003 Bottled mineral water could be almost two years old by the time it is bought by consumers, it was revealed today. Supermarket shoppers who buy bottled water in the belief that it is fresher than tap water are unaware that it may in fact have sat on a warehouse shelf for most of its use-by date. Professor Jeni Colbourne, head of the Drinking Water Inspectorate-said: "People have a perception-that bottled water is fresh because it's been sealed in a bottle, unsullied by human hands. But in fact it has probably spent most of that time in hot warehouses and on hot supermarket shelves." In one warehouse, water was discovered which had been bottled up to 23 months ago. Water companies insist the airtight seals used on bottles mean they are still safe to drink even after two years. Jo Jacobius, of the Natural Mineral Water Information Service, which represents 13 brands including Evian, Perrier, Buxton and Highland Spring, said: "The water is fine to drink after two years. It is not going to go 'off ' and the mineral content is kept the same." http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/5648861?source=Evening%20Standard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 ---those plastic bottles are gas permeable, so much for being sealed shut huh? karl In , " luckypig " <luckypig@i...> wrote: > Bottled water is two years old > By Nilufer Atik, Evening Standard > 9 July 2003 > Bottled mineral water could be almost two years old by the time it is bought by consumers, it was revealed today. > > Supermarket shoppers who buy bottled water in the belief that it is fresher than tap water are unaware that it may in fact have sat on a warehouse shelf for most of its use-by date. > > Professor Jeni Colbourne, head of the Drinking Water Inspectorate- said: " People have a perception-that bottled water is fresh because it's been sealed in a bottle, unsullied by human hands. But in fact it has probably spent most of that time in hot warehouses and on hot supermarket shelves. " > > In one warehouse, water was discovered which had been bottled up to 23 months ago. Water companies insist the airtight seals used on bottles mean they are still safe to drink even after two years. > > Jo Jacobius, of the Natural Mineral Water Information Service, which represents 13 brands including Evian, Perrier, Buxton and Highland Spring, said: " The water is fine to drink after two years. It is not going to go 'off ' and the mineral content is kept the same. " > > http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/5648861?source=Evening% 20Standard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 --- good call Ed, I'll second the glass only recommendation that's all I use, In , " Ed Siceloff " <siceloff@s...> wrote: > I work in the glass industry. And this is a plug for the glass industry. Buy things bottled in glass. It keeps longer, and the glass does not put off any chemicals into your foodstuffs like the plastic containers all do. Same is true of water. And the water actually reacts with the plastic, as well as the food reacting with the plastic. This is true even of food grade plastics. The reason that the food grade plastic is " food grade plastic " is that it reacts less. But, when figuring how many one can buy that is stored in the plastic crap, one would have to figure that he is getting too much. The plastic is measured for how much of a particular gas it gives off over a certain amount of time. YOU are not measured for how much of those substances you are absorbing from everywhere. > Sort of the same rationale goes into the licensing of incinerators, and smokestacks. They give off so much pollution (lets say dioxin) in a given area, so the EPA regulates how much a smokestack is permitted to give off. So, the industry just builds more of them. Rather than people regulating themselves in terms of how much pollution that they make from their consumption patterns, let the government regulate how the pollution is spread out to everybody. They get it all mixed up as to what the actual point is. It doesn't matter how much one smokestack puts out if one builds more smokestacks everywhere. > And it doesn't matter how much a plastic bottle of water is reacting with the water if one is drinking from it all the time. > Most of us are living in the modern world that prides itself on having utilities, including water. Just buy a water filter/purifier, and go back to NOT carrying your water to your home like your ancestors did. If you must use a container, use glass. Everything stores better in it, if you are required to store something in it. > > Ed > - > karl > > Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:45 PM > Re: Bottled water is two years old > > > ---those plastic bottles are gas permeable, so much for being sealed > shut huh? > karl > > > In , " luckypig " <luckypig@i...> > wrote: > > Bottled water is two years old > > By Nilufer Atik, Evening Standard > > 9 July 2003 > > Bottled mineral water could be almost two years old by the time it > is bought by consumers, it was revealed today. > > > > Supermarket shoppers who buy bottled water in the belief that it > is fresher than tap water are unaware that it may in fact have sat > on a warehouse shelf for most of its use-by date. > > > > Professor Jeni Colbourne, head of the Drinking Water Inspectorate- > said: " People have a perception-that bottled water is fresh because > it's been sealed in a bottle, unsullied by human hands. But in fact > it has probably spent most of that time in hot warehouses and on hot > supermarket shelves. " > > > > In one warehouse, water was discovered which had been bottled up > to 23 months ago. Water companies insist the airtight seals used on > bottles mean they are still safe to drink even after two years. > > > > Jo Jacobius, of the Natural Mineral Water Information Service, > which represents 13 brands including Evian, Perrier, Buxton and > Highland Spring, said: " The water is fine to drink after two years. > It is not going to go 'off ' and the mineral content is kept the > same. " > > > > http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/5648861? source=Evening% > 20Standard > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 I work in the glass industry. And this is a plug for the glass industry. Buy things bottled in glass. It keeps longer, and the glass does not put off any chemicals into your foodstuffs like the plastic containers all do. Same is true of water. And the water actually reacts with the plastic, as well as the food reacting with the plastic. This is true even of food grade plastics. The reason that the food grade plastic is "food grade plastic" is that it reacts less. But, when figuring how many one can buy that is stored in the plastic crap, one would have to figure that he is getting too much. The plastic is measured for how much of a particular gas it gives off over a certain amount of time. YOU are not measured for how much of those substances you are absorbing from everywhere. Sort of the same rationale goes into the licensing of incinerators, and smokestacks. They give off so much pollution (lets say dioxin) in a given area, so the EPA regulates how much a smokestack is permitted to give off. So, the industry just builds more of them. Rather than people regulating themselves in terms of how much pollution that they make from their consumption patterns, let the government regulate how the pollution is spread out to everybody. They get it all mixed up as to what the actual point is. It doesn't matter how much one smokestack puts out if one builds more smokestacks everywhere. And it doesn't matter how much a plastic bottle of water is reacting with the water if one is drinking from it all the time. Most of us are living in the modern world that prides itself on having utilities, including water. Just buy a water filter/purifier, and go back to NOT carrying your water to your home like your ancestors did. If you must use a container, use glass. Everything stores better in it, if you are required to store something in it. Ed - karl Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:45 PM Re: Bottled water is two years old ---those plastic bottles are gas permeable, so much for being sealed shut huh?karlIn , "luckypig" <luckypig@i...> wrote:> Bottled water is two years old > By Nilufer Atik, Evening Standard > 9 July 2003 > Bottled mineral water could be almost two years old by the time it is bought by consumers, it was revealed today. > > Supermarket shoppers who buy bottled water in the belief that it is fresher than tap water are unaware that it may in fact have sat on a warehouse shelf for most of its use-by date. > > Professor Jeni Colbourne, head of the Drinking Water Inspectorate-said: "People have a perception-that bottled water is fresh because it's been sealed in a bottle, unsullied by human hands. But in fact it has probably spent most of that time in hot warehouses and on hot supermarket shelves." > > In one warehouse, water was discovered which had been bottled up to 23 months ago. Water companies insist the airtight seals used on bottles mean they are still safe to drink even after two years. > > Jo Jacobius, of the Natural Mineral Water Information Service, which represents 13 brands including Evian, Perrier, Buxton and Highland Spring, said: "The water is fine to drink after two years. It is not going to go 'off ' and the mineral content is kept the same." > > http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/5648861?source=Evening%20Standard «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»NATIONWIDE DENTAL BENEFITS PACKAGE PLUSSAVE UP TO 80% on DENTAL, PRESCRIPTIONS DRUGS,GLASSES, CONTACTS, VISION CARE, & CHIROPRACTIC.$11.95 For Single or$19.95 For an entire household per month!Immediate Coverage * No Waiting Period Pre-existing Covered * No Limit on Benefits http://www.mybenefitsplus.com/MMerrill/ Email: MEM121«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§ - PULSE ON WORLD HEALTH CONSPIRACIES! §Subscribe:......... - To :.... - Any information here in is for educational purpose only, it may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. Always consult with a qualified health practitioner before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses.**COPYRIGHT NOTICE**In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 What do all those millions of people do, that want to carry water around with them, when they walk, run, bike, etc., for exercise and sport. Glass breaks, and can cut people badly. That's its only weakness. Looks for a million-dollar opportunity for an inventor: a thermos-like receptacle that will hold water, is unbreakable, and is made out of non-toxic materials that won't leech into the water. JP - " karl " <k_t723 Wednesday, July 09, 2003 3:19 PM Re: Bottled water is two years old --- good call Ed, I'll second the glass only recommendation that's all I use, In , " Ed Siceloff " <siceloff@s...> wrote: > I work in the glass industry. And this is a plug for the glass industry. Buy things bottled in glass. It keeps longer, and the glass does not put off any chemicals into your foodstuffs like the plastic containers all do. Same is true of water. And the water actually reacts with the plastic, as well as the food reacting with the plastic. This is true even of food grade plastics. The reason that the food grade plastic is " food grade plastic " is that it reacts less. But, when figuring how many one can buy that is stored in the plastic crap, one would have to figure that he is getting too much. The plastic is measured for how much of a particular gas it gives off over a certain amount of time. YOU are not measured for how much of those substances you are absorbing from everywhere. > Sort of the same rationale goes into the licensing of incinerators, and smokestacks. They give off so much pollution (lets say dioxin) in a given area, so the EPA regulates how much a smokestack is permitted to give off. So, the industry just builds more of them. Rather than people regulating themselves in terms of how much pollution that they make from their consumption patterns, let the government regulate how the pollution is spread out to everybody. They get it all mixed up as to what the actual point is. It doesn't matter how much one smokestack puts out if one builds more smokestacks everywhere. > And it doesn't matter how much a plastic bottle of water is reacting with the water if one is drinking from it all the time. > Most of us are living in the modern world that prides itself on having utilities, including water. Just buy a water filter/purifier, and go back to NOT carrying your water to your home like your ancestors did. If you must use a container, use glass. Everything stores better in it, if you are required to store something in it. > > Ed > - > karl > > Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:45 PM > Re: Bottled water is two years old > > > ---those plastic bottles are gas permeable, so much for being sealed > shut huh? > karl > > > In , " luckypig " <luckypig@i...> > wrote: > > Bottled water is two years old > > By Nilufer Atik, Evening Standard > > 9 July 2003 > > Bottled mineral water could be almost two years old by the time it > is bought by consumers, it was revealed today. > > > > Supermarket shoppers who buy bottled water in the belief that it > is fresher than tap water are unaware that it may in fact have sat > on a warehouse shelf for most of its use-by date. > > > > Professor Jeni Colbourne, head of the Drinking Water Inspectorate- > said: " People have a perception-that bottled water is fresh because > it's been sealed in a bottle, unsullied by human hands. But in fact > it has probably spent most of that time in hot warehouses and on hot > supermarket shelves. " > > > > In one warehouse, water was discovered which had been bottled up > to 23 months ago. Water companies insist the airtight seals used on > bottles mean they are still safe to drink even after two years. > > > > Jo Jacobius, of the Natural Mineral Water Information Service, > which represents 13 brands including Evian, Perrier, Buxton and > Highland Spring, said: " The water is fine to drink after two years. > It is not going to go 'off ' and the mineral content is kept the > same. " > > > > http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/5648861? source=Evening% > 20Standard > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 But then, Donna, you don't consume your computer. lol----if its like mine, it consumes me. Here come the mac plugs. more lol. go ahead. Yeah, yeah, I'm still on a pc but a mac will be soon. Was that Neil that fixes macs? Like a maytag washer repairman? Never busy. Its important to maintain good habits that keep us healthy. Important to limit the chemical pollution where ever we can. There is so much that we as individuals can not do anything about except to teach other individuals. Ed - CountryGirl Wednesday, July 09, 2003 5:45 AM Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old Preach it brother. I wholeheartedly agree. I buy raw organic apple juice in a gallon container and then use that was a water jug. I filter my own water, but rather than doing it one glass at a time I fill the glass jug. And I take my own water with me on outings in my designer Ball or Kerr jar. Smile. My dream is a world without plastic. Will anyone ever make a computer that isn't made of plastic. Could I afford a titanium one? No. Blessings Donna .. . . put a little love in your heart . . . http://www.excellentthings.net - Ed Siceloff Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:14 PM Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old I work in the glass industry. And this is a plug for the glass industry. Buy things bottled in glass. It keeps longer, and the glass does not put off any chemicals into your foodstuffs like the plastic containers all do. Same is true of water. And the water actually reacts with the plastic, as well as the food reacting with the plastic. This is true even of food grade plastics. The reason that the food grade plastic is "food grade plastic" is that it reacts less. But, when figuring how many one can buy that is stored in the plastic crap, one would have to figure that he is getting too much. The plastic is measured for how much of a particular gas it gives off over a certain amount of time. YOU are not measured for how much of those substances you are absorbing from everywhere. Sort of the same rationale goes into the licensing of incinerators, and smokestacks. They give off so much pollution (lets say dioxin) in a given area, so the EPA regulates how much a smokestack is permitted to give off. So, the industry just builds more of them. Rather than people regulating themselves in terms of how much pollution that they make from their consumption patterns, let the government regulate how the pollution is spread out to everybody. They get it all mixed up as to what the actual point is. It doesn't matter how much one smokestack puts out if one builds more smokestacks everywhere. And it doesn't matter how much a plastic bottle of water is reacting with the water if one is drinking from it all the time. Most of us are living in the modern world that prides itself on having utilities, including water. Just buy a water filter/purifier, and go back to NOT carrying your water to your home like your ancestors did. If you must use a container, use glass. Everything stores better in it, if you are required to store something in it. Ed - karl Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:45 PM Re: Bottled water is two years old ---those plastic bottles are gas permeable, so much for being sealed shut huh?karlIn , "luckypig" <luckypig@i...> wrote:> Bottled water is two years old > By Nilufer Atik, Evening Standard > 9 July 2003 > Bottled mineral water could be almost two years old by the time it is bought by consumers, it was revealed today. > > Supermarket shoppers who buy bottled water in the belief that it is fresher than tap water are unaware that it may in fact have sat on a warehouse shelf for most of its use-by date. > > Professor Jeni Colbourne, head of the Drinking Water Inspectorate-said: "People have a perception-that bottled water is fresh because it's been sealed in a bottle, unsullied by human hands. But in fact it has probably spent most of that time in hot warehouses and on hot supermarket shelves." > > In one warehouse, water was discovered which had been bottled up to 23 months ago. Water companies insist the airtight seals used on bottles mean they are still safe to drink even after two years. > > Jo Jacobius, of the Natural Mineral Water Information Service, which represents 13 brands including Evian, Perrier, Buxton and Highland Spring, said: "The water is fine to drink after two years. It is not going to go 'off ' and the mineral content is kept the same." > > http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/5648861?source=Evening%20Standard «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»NATIONWIDE DENTAL BENEFITS PACKAGE PLUSSAVE UP TO 80% on DENTAL, PRESCRIPTIONS DRUGS,GLASSES, CONTACTS, VISION CARE, & CHIROPRACTIC.$11.95 For Single or$19.95 For an entire household per month!Immediate Coverage * No Waiting Period Pre-existing Covered * No Limit on Benefits http://www.mybenefitsplus.com/MMerrill/ Email: MEM121«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§ - PULSE ON WORLD HEALTH CONSPIRACIES! §Subscribe:......... - To :.... - Any information here in is for educational purpose only, it may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. Always consult with a qualified health practitioner before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses.**COPYRIGHT NOTICE**In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 John Polifronio [counterpnt] Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:20 PM Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old >>What do all those millions of people do, that want to carry water around with them, when they walk, run, bike, etc., for exercise and sport. Glass breaks, and can cut people badly. That's its only weakness. Looks for a million-dollar opportunity for an inventor: a thermos-like receptacle that will hold water, is unbreakable, and is made out of non-toxic materials that won't leech into the water.<< ......and that is *light*, for us hikers and backpackers. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 So, because millions of people want to carry water with them while walking, running, biking (all cardio activities) they need to poison themselves with plastic and the estrogen like chemicals it adds to the water that they are drinking from those bottles? If one is going to do something for his health, why not be radical about it and refuse to do anything that is going to hurt one's health. At least not for the sake of convenience. Most all the bottles that one carries in terms of exercising and carrying bottled water all have glass counterparts. You can buy whiskey flasks in glass or plastic; beer in glass or plastic. The glass does break. Disadvantage. You can freeze your drink in the plastic without the plastic drinking. But, truth of the matter is, how many people exercise to the point that they can't wait for 20 minutes to get a drink? From water stored in a locker perhaps in an insulated glass container rather than a plastic one. All sorts of drinks still come in glass. The big plus for plastic is convenience. But, I'd imagine that if one is going to do the work to get and stay healthy, then convenience wouldn't much matter. Do you know how inconvenient it is to exercise? You have to establish the habit. That is all any of this is. Breaking old habits and establishing new healthy habits. In terms of what foods one eats; in terms of what supplements one takes; in terms of what lifestyle choices one makes (ie. low stress perhaps a little less money over against high stress more money in jobs); in terms of exercising; in terms of regaining control of one's own life. It all boils down to habits. There are ways around getting cut, heavier material to carry around (even though one is "exercising"), a more expensive material to make too-although not in terms counting social costs of plastic over against glass. And again, if one limited the plastic to the very occasional use, then one has taken a step towards not permitting those pollutants in their food and water supply. - John Polifronio Wednesday, July 09, 2003 6:20 PM Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old What do all those millions of people do, that want to carry water aroundwith them, when they walk, run, bike, etc., for exercise and sport. Glassbreaks, and can cut people badly. That's its only weakness.Looks for a million-dollar opportunity for an inventor: a thermos-likereceptacle that will hold water, is unbreakable, and is made out ofnon-toxic materials that won't leech into the water.JP- "karl" <k_t723Wednesday, July 09, 2003 3:19 PM Re: Bottled water is two years old--- good call Ed, I'll second the glass only recommendation that's all Iuse,In , "Ed Siceloff" <siceloff@s...>wrote:> I work in the glass industry. And this is a plug for the glassindustry. Buy things bottled in glass. It keeps longer, and theglass does not put off any chemicals into your foodstuffs like theplastic containers all do. Same is true of water. And the wateractually reacts with the plastic, as well as the food reacting withthe plastic. This is true even of food grade plastics. The reasonthat the food grade plastic is "food grade plastic" is that itreacts less. But, when figuring how many one can buy that is storedin the plastic crap, one would have to figure that he is getting toomuch. The plastic is measured for how much of a particular gas itgives off over a certain amount of time. YOU are not measured forhow much of those substances you are absorbing from everywhere.> Sort of the same rationale goes into the licensing ofincinerators, and smokestacks. They give off so much pollution(lets say dioxin) in a given area, so the EPA regulates how much asmokestack is permitted to give off. So, the industry just buildsmore of them. Rather than people regulating themselves in terms ofhow much pollution that they make from their consumption patterns,let the government regulate how the pollution is spread out toeverybody. They get it all mixed up as to what the actual pointis. It doesn't matter how much one smokestack puts out if onebuilds more smokestacks everywhere.> And it doesn't matter how much a plastic bottle of water isreacting with the water if one is drinking from it all the time.> Most of us are living in the modern world that prides itself onhaving utilities, including water. Just buy a waterfilter/purifier, and go back to NOT carrying your water to your homelike your ancestors did. If you must use a container, use glass.Everything stores better in it, if you are required to storesomething in it.>> Ed> - > karl> > Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:45 PM> Re: Bottled water is two years old>>> ---those plastic bottles are gas permeable, so much for beingsealed> shut huh?> karl>>> In , "luckypig"<luckypig@i...>> wrote:> > Bottled water is two years old> > By Nilufer Atik, Evening Standard> > 9 July 2003> > Bottled mineral water could be almost two years old by thetime it> is bought by consumers, it was revealed today.> >> > Supermarket shoppers who buy bottled water in the belief thatit> is fresher than tap water are unaware that it may in fact havesat> on a warehouse shelf for most of its use-by date.> >> > Professor Jeni Colbourne, head of the Drinking WaterInspectorate-> said: "People have a perception-that bottled water is freshbecause> it's been sealed in a bottle, unsullied by human hands. But infact> it has probably spent most of that time in hot warehouses and onhot> supermarket shelves."> >> > In one warehouse, water was discovered which had been bottledup> to 23 months ago. Water companies insist the airtight seals usedon> bottles mean they are still safe to drink even after two years.> >> > Jo Jacobius, of the Natural Mineral Water Information Service,> which represents 13 brands including Evian, Perrier, Buxton and> Highland Spring, said: "The water is fine to drink after twoyears.> It is not going to go 'off ' and the mineral content is kept the> same."> >> > http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/5648861?source=Evening%> 20Standard>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Donna, What type of water filter do you suggest? Carol ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ whole-food supplements that provide nutrients essential for the health of people, pets and plants. http://www.BlueGreenSolutions.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CountryGirl [ruthful] Wednesday, July 09, 2003 6:45 AM To: Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old Preach it brother. I wholeheartedly agree. I buy raw organic apple juice in a gallon container and then use that was a water jug. I filter my own water, but rather than doing it one glass at a time I fill the glass jug. And I take my own water with me on outings in my designer Ball or Kerr jar. Smile. My dream is a world without plastic. Will anyone ever make a computer that isn't made of plastic. Could I afford a titanium one? No. Blessings Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Do you know if the different numbers on the bottom of the plastic containers have anything to do with how much toxins leach from it? I know they have to do with recycling, but do the different numbers mean that it is a different kind of plastic, or thickness, or whatever? Carol ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ whole-food supplements that provide nutrients essential for the health of people, pets and plants. http://www.BlueGreenSolutions.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John Polifronio [counterpnt] Wednesday, July 09, 2003 7:20 PM To: Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old What do all those millions of people do, that want to carry water around with them, when they walk, run, bike, etc., for exercise and sport. Glass breaks, and can cut people badly. That's its only weakness. Looks for a million-dollar opportunity for an inventor: a thermos-like receptacle that will hold water, is unbreakable, and is made out of non-toxic materials that won't leech into the water. JP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 The new Mac G5, the World's fastest desktop computer, is made of aluminum. Of course there are a lot of plastic parts inside of it. >\Preach it brother. I wholeheartedly agree. I buy raw organic apple juice in a gallon container and then use that was a water jug. I filter my own water, but rather than doing it one glass at a time I fill the glass jug. And I take my own water with me on outings in my designer Ball or Kerr jar. Smile. My dream is a world without plastic. Will anyone ever make a computer that isn't made of plastic. Could I afford a titanium one? No. > >Blessings >Donna >. . . put a little love in your heart . . . ><http://www.excellentthings.net>http://www.excellentthings.net -- -- Neil Jensen: neil The WWW VL: Sumeria http://www.sumeria.net/ " Definition of 'bipartisan': Buy one party, get the other one free. " -- Jamin Raskin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Hi Carol. The least expensive half micron (.5) carbon block filter I can find. It removes pesiticide type chems, giardia, bacteria, chlorine, etc. but leave minerals. Doesn't filter flouride. I am not sure what does. Doesn't alter the ph of water. Had a guy drinking reverse osmosis water which is extremely acid. He was getting incredibly achey. Especially at bed time. Told him to stop drinking RO water and within days he got relief. No one told him it was acid water. Expensive acid water. Blessings Donna .. . .put a little love in your heart . . . http://www.excellentthings.net - Carol Minnick Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:41 PM RE: Re: Bottled water is two years old Donna, What type of water filter do you suggest? Carol ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ whole-food supplements that provide nutrients essential for the health of people, pets and plants. http://www.BlueGreenSolutions.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Hi Neil. Well, aluminum is as bad or worse. Just the enviromental damage from aluminum mining is enough to make me want to not use aluminum ever if I can avoid it. I think I am stuck with plastic. I just had a thought. Cover the flat parts with a thin layer of leather like a piece of chamois. Chuckle. A leather computer. Ha Donna - Neil Jensen Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:37 PM Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old The new Mac G5, the World's fastest desktop computer, is made of aluminum. Of course there are a lot of plastic parts inside of it.>\Preach it brother. I wholeheartedly agree. I buy raw organic apple juice in a gallon container and then use that was a water jug. I filter my own water, but rather than doing it one glass at a time I fill the glass jug. And I take my own water with me on outings in my designer Ball or Kerr jar. Smile. My dream is a world without plastic. Will anyone ever make a computer that isn't made of plastic. Could I afford a titanium one? No.> >Blessings>Donna>. . . put a little love in your heart . . .><http://www.excellentthings.net>http://www.excellentthings.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Hi, what about this 32 oz fastrip thermal cup/jug that I have been drinking out of for 3 years? Do you you think I have all the bad stuff drunk up yet or is it still toxic? bye cindy SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Cindy, There is actually a very simple test that answers that question. Put the cup/jug in a closed metal or glass container, that does not emit an odor, for several days. Open up the container and take a whiff. If it smells, then the plastic is out gassing. Most plastics out gas for years. The softer and more flexible the plastic, the more plasticizers it has. Since your body does not metabolize plastic, it is very hard to detox from it. -- Donald E. Jacobs Registered Massage Therapist Macrobiotic Counselor Reiki Practitioner Professional Speaker > Hi, > > what about this 32 oz fastrip thermal cup/jug that I have been > drinking out of for 3 years? Do you you think I have all the bad > stuff drunk up yet or is it still toxic? > > bye cindy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Donna, I would like to find a filter system that removes the pesticides you mention here, but also filters out fluoride. I’m now using RO water, but this scares me – I never knew it was acid water – is that because it removes all the minerals? Carol CountryGirl [ruthful] Hi Carol. The least expensive half micron (.5) carbon block filter I can find. It removes pesiticide type chems, giardia, bacteria, chlorine, etc. but leave minerals. Doesn't filter flouride. I am not sure what does. Doesn't alter the ph of water. Had a guy drinking reverse osmosis water which is extremely acid. He was getting incredibly achey. Especially at bed time. Told him to stop drinking RO water and within days he got relief. No one told him it was acid water. Expensive acid water. Blessings Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 ---the acid water flows down the drain, one of my co.s installs RO systems, water retention systems etc, you can check the Ph easy enough though if you dont believ me, if you are getting acid water from your Ro system somebody did not install it correctly, or your filters are contaminated, I have clients in austin where the filters change every 3 months and the membranes every 6 months, depends on your supply, my systems are designed for each specific water supply and based on their analysis of the water( it's really more like a chemical cocktail) karl In , " Carol Minnick " <carolminnick@a...> wrote: > Donna, > > I would like to find a filter system that removes the pesticides you > mention here, but also filters out fluoride. I'm now using RO water, > but this scares me - I never knew it was acid water - is that because it > removes all the minerals? > > Carol > > > CountryGirl [ruthful@p...] > > Hi Carol. The least expensive half micron (.5) carbon block filter I > can find. It removes pesiticide type chems, giardia, bacteria, > chlorine, etc. but leave minerals. Doesn't filter flouride. I am not > sure what does. Doesn't alter the ph of water. > > Had a guy drinking reverse osmosis water which is extremely acid. He > was getting incredibly achey. Especially at bed time. Told him to stop > drinking RO water and within days he got relief. No one told him it was > acid water. Expensive acid water. > > Blessings > Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Hi Carol. Well you can get some ph test paper and check it out. Maybe yours will be different. Does RO take out the flouride? If it does, then I would stick with the RO water and just add some minerals to restore the ph. Because, yes, removing the minerals is what makes it acid. Concentrace by Trace Minerals research is an inexpensive safe brand of trace minerals. I am not sure how much it would take to remineralize RO water to a good ph. You would just need to have some test papers and start with just one drop and see how much it takes to restore the ph. 7.5 is a good level. Higher if your body is acid and you want to get it into an alkaline range. Hopefully it will still taste good. Trace Minerals Research has a video that is very interesting. Teaches on minerals and how essential they are to the electrical system of the body. And they do a demonstration where they have a wide clear glass beaker of water sitting on the white demostration table. To one side is a light bulb and the wire from the bulb goes into the water. Bare wire end in water. Another seperate bare ended wire goes out the other side and has a plug and is plugged into a socket. The water has no minerals in it and the bulb is not lit. Then they pour a little liquid trace minerals in the water and the bulb lights up. Simple science demostration to show that minerals carry current. this is true in the body also. Since most soil is depleted of minerals and our foods have much lower mineral content that they used to, drinking water with no minerals can mean major problems overtime. Starts with energy loss and can lead to a multitude of issues. We have been chatting about enzymes recently and the fact that an enzyme is necessary for every biological process in the body. Well the additional science is that every enzyme requires a trace mineral on it to function. Different enzymes require different minerals. So a healthy level of minerals in the body is essential. Calcium, which is not a trace mineral, is a major mineral for nutrition. Calcium hangs out on the outside of cells and collects other nutrients to it and when it is loaded it enters the cell and dumps it's load and exits the cell to collect for nutrients. Isn't that interesting. If I wasn't doing coral minerals I would be doing concentrace. By the way, I just remembered that NOW Foods sells "Concentrace" minerals. They often purchase brand names and relabel them and sell them for less. So those interested might do a search for the manufactures price and compare it with NOW. Both have sites on the net that can be found with simple word searches. Of course the ideal is to eat food grown on soil that has been amended in a knowledgeable fashion so that the foods are mineral rich. You know them when they hit your mouth as they are sooooooooooooo flavorful. But many organic farmers haven't taken this step, so their food is clean but not as nutritious as it could be. Blessings Donna .. . . put a little love in your heart . . . http://www.excellentthings.net - Carol Minnick Thursday, July 10, 2003 8:50 PM RE: Re: Bottled water is two years old Donna, I would like to find a filter system that removes the pesticides you mention here, but also filters out fluoride. I’m now using RO water, but this scares me – I never knew it was acid water – is that because it removes all the minerals? Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 If I lived where they were adding flouride to the water and RO took it out, I would use RO and add minerals to it and maybe use a fish bubbler to add some oxygen to it. Flouride is so incredibly evil, from what I have read and it is hard to filter. The algae is good, but unless you are adding it to the water, you might want to find some liquid ionic minerals and add just a tiny bit to give the water some life again. Not an expert here Donna - Carol Minnick Friday, July 11, 2003 1:24 PM RE: Re: Bottled water is two years old Hi again Donna, Yes, I think the RO takes out the fluoride too. I think the water is pretty dead when the RO machine is done with it. It’s not MY machine – I take my empty bottles to a health food store and get them filled up. So I could buy some other type of water – or some type of filter – but there are so many out there I just have no idea which one would be best. I use the nutritional blue green algae for my mineral supplement. Carol ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 I am going to have to try a mac and see what the difference is. Is there any downside? Anyone? Please respond off list, as it is off topic. Thanks Donna - Ed Siceloff Wednesday, July 09, 2003 5:32 PM Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old But then, Donna, you don't consume your computer. lol----if its like mine, it consumes me. Here come the mac plugs. more lol. go ahead. Yeah, yeah, I'm still on a pc but a mac will be soon. Was that Neil that fixes macs? Like a maytag washer repairman? Never busy. Its important to maintain good habits that keep us healthy. Important to limit the chemical pollution where ever we can. There is so much that we as individuals can not do anything about except to teach other individuals. Ed - CountryGirl Wednesday, July 09, 2003 5:45 AM Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old Preach it brother. I wholeheartedly agree. I buy raw organic apple juice in a gallon container and then use that was a water jug. I filter my own water, but rather than doing it one glass at a time I fill the glass jug. And I take my own water with me on outings in my designer Ball or Kerr jar. Smile. My dream is a world without plastic. Will anyone ever make a computer that isn't made of plastic. Could I afford a titanium one? No. Blessings Donna .. . . put a little love in your heart . . . http://www.excellentthings.net - Ed Siceloff Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:14 PM Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old I work in the glass industry. And this is a plug for the glass industry. Buy things bottled in glass. It keeps longer, and the glass does not put off any chemicals into your foodstuffs like the plastic containers all do. Same is true of water. And the water actually reacts with the plastic, as well as the food reacting with the plastic. This is true even of food grade plastics. The reason that the food grade plastic is "food grade plastic" is that it reacts less. But, when figuring how many one can buy that is stored in the plastic crap, one would have to figure that he is getting too much. The plastic is measured for how much of a particular gas it gives off over a certain amount of time. YOU are not measured for how much of those substances you are absorbing from everywhere. Sort of the same rationale goes into the licensing of incinerators, and smokestacks. They give off so much pollution (lets say dioxin) in a given area, so the EPA regulates how much a smokestack is permitted to give off. So, the industry just builds more of them. Rather than people regulating themselves in terms of how much pollution that they make from their consumption patterns, let the government regulate how the pollution is spread out to everybody. They get it all mixed up as to what the actual point is. It doesn't matter how much one smokestack puts out if one builds more smokestacks everywhere. And it doesn't matter how much a plastic bottle of water is reacting with the water if one is drinking from it all the time. Most of us are living in the modern world that prides itself on having utilities, including water. Just buy a water filter/purifier, and go back to NOT carrying your water to your home like your ancestors did. If you must use a container, use glass. Everything stores better in it, if you are required to store something in it. Ed - karl Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:45 PM Re: Bottled water is two years old ---those plastic bottles are gas permeable, so much for being sealed shut huh?karlIn , "luckypig" <luckypig@i...> wrote:> Bottled water is two years old > By Nilufer Atik, Evening Standard > 9 July 2003 > Bottled mineral water could be almost two years old by the time it is bought by consumers, it was revealed today. > > Supermarket shoppers who buy bottled water in the belief that it is fresher than tap water are unaware that it may in fact have sat on a warehouse shelf for most of its use-by date. > > Professor Jeni Colbourne, head of the Drinking Water Inspectorate-said: "People have a perception-that bottled water is fresh because it's been sealed in a bottle, unsullied by human hands. But in fact it has probably spent most of that time in hot warehouses and on hot supermarket shelves." > > In one warehouse, water was discovered which had been bottled up to 23 months ago. Water companies insist the airtight seals used on bottles mean they are still safe to drink even after two years. > > Jo Jacobius, of the Natural Mineral Water Information Service, which represents 13 brands including Evian, Perrier, Buxton and Highland Spring, said: "The water is fine to drink after two years. It is not going to go 'off ' and the mineral content is kept the same." > > http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/5648861?source=Evening%20Standard «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»NATIONWIDE DENTAL BENEFITS PACKAGE PLUSSAVE UP TO 80% on DENTAL, PRESCRIPTIONS DRUGS,GLASSES, CONTACTS, VISION CARE, & CHIROPRACTIC.$11.95 For Single or$19.95 For an entire household per month!Immediate Coverage * No Waiting Period Pre-existing Covered * No Limit on Benefits http://www.mybenefitsplus.com/MMerrill/ Email: MEM121«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§ - PULSE ON WORLD HEALTH CONSPIRACIES! §Subscribe:......... - To :.... - Any information here in is for educational purpose only, it may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. Always consult with a qualified health practitioner before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses.**COPYRIGHT NOTICE**In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Karl, So--- I think I don’t understand this – the acid water flows down the drain? So you are not drinking acid water once the RO system is done filtering? And what is a chemical cocktail – what you end up drinking from the RO system, or the water that goes down the drain? Carol karl [k_t723] ---the acid water flows down the drain, one of my co.s installs RO systems, water retention systems etc, you can check the Ph easy enough though if you dont believ me, if you are getting acid water from your Ro system somebody did not install it correctly, or your filters are contaminated, I have clients in austin where the filters change every 3 months and the membranes every 6 months, depends on your supply, my systems are designed for each specific water supply and based on their analysis of the water( it's really more like a chemical cocktail) karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Hi again Donna, Yes, I think the RO takes out the fluoride too. I think the water is pretty dead when the RO machine is done with it. It’s not MY machine – I take my empty bottles to a health food store and get them filled up. So I could buy some other type of water – or some type of filter – but there are so many out there I just have no idea which one would be best. I use the nutritional blue green algae for my mineral supplement. Carol ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ whole-food supplements that provide nutrients essential for the health of people, pets and plants. http://www.BlueGreenSolutions.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CountryGirl [ruthful] Friday, July 11, 2003 2:14 AM To: Re: Re: Bottled water is two years old Hi Carol. Well you can get some ph test paper and check it out. Maybe yours will be different. Does RO take out the flouride? If it does, then I would stick with the RO water and just add some minerals to restore the ph. Because, yes, removing the minerals is what makes it acid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Yes, I do add the algae right to the water – it makes the water turn a beautiful green – and everybody wonders what the heck I’m drinking J That bubbler is a good idea! Carol ----Original Message----- CountryGirl [ruthful] If I lived where they were adding flouride to the water and RO took it out, I would use RO and add minerals to it and maybe use a fish bubbler to add some oxygen to it. Flouride is so incredibly evil, from what I have read and it is hard to filter. The algae is good, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2003 Report Share Posted July 12, 2003 --- Hi Carol , had to collect the checks today just got in .the tap water is the cocktail, the Ro system puts the " bad " [acid , contaminates] water down the drain that is why it takes 5-8 gallons of tap to make 1 gal. of pure water or at least as pure as your system is designed for, considering the supply karl In , " Carol Minnick " <carolminnick@a...> wrote: > Karl, > So--- I think I don't understand this - the acid water flows down the > drain? So you are not drinking acid water once the RO system is done > filtering? And what is a chemical cocktail - what you end up drinking > from the RO system, or the water that goes down the drain? > Carol > > > karl [k_t723] > > > ---the acid water flows down the drain, one of my co.s installs RO > systems, water retention systems etc, you can check the Ph easy > enough though if you dont believ me, if you are getting acid water > from your Ro system somebody did not install it correctly, or your > filters are contaminated, I have clients in austin where the filters > change every 3 months and the membranes every 6 months, depends on > your supply, my systems are designed for each specific water supply > and based on their analysis of the water( it's really more like a > chemical cocktail) > karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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