Guest guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 At the risk of sounding depressing, I don't think we, as a species, are going to need to worry about the 100,000 year point. My guess is that we won't survive the resource wars set off by the next ice age. The up side is that the Earth will probably have re-generated itself by then. No consolation for us, I admit. The Cretaceous-Tertiary extinctions were an unmitigated disaster for the large dinosaurs, but they provided some interesting opportunities for us mammals. >Caroline Abreu <crow > > >Re: Re: Jean Auel >Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:19:59 -0500 > >Carl Weisbrod wrote: > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Yup, sounds right to me, Caroline--except by some accounts > > the Neanderthals (can't recall exact numbers) were on the > > planet (something like) twice as long as we've been here so far. > > So they may have had it figured out better than our group...if > > the present trend continues, by the third millennium we may > > only be a bad memory for the ol' planet. In any case, I can't > > imagine us making it another 100,000 years. *whew* imagine > > the damage we could do in that amount of time!! > > > > >LOL, Carl... well, then, maybe we should use our " reasoning " capability >to figure out some ways to adjust, ourselves! The current political oil >crisis makes our own societal dependence pretty obvious. Would half of >the US population make it through a single winter without heating oil? >How about a single month without any gas at the pumps? We are >politicking and sciencing our way out of our natural survival skills. I >imagine the only folks who won't be affected here in such a crisis are >the Amish, maybe some diehard survivalists and mountain people ;-) > >In an associated news flash, I heard yesterday that the folks who make >Drake and Hostess cakes were on strike... better hoard your Twinkies! ><G> > >-- >--- >Blessings, >Crow > " Look for Rainbows in the Darkness " >--- >Rev. Caroline Gutierrez Abreu, BS, RN, CHTP/I, CRMT, CH >AIM: CaroCrow > >If a tree had apples last year, don't expect pears this year. > > " The hardest thing to learn in life is which bridge to cross >and which to burn. " David Russell ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Studying geology tends to give one a long view. >Carl Weisbrod <askcarl > > >Re: Re: Jean Auel >Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:20:27 -1000 > >At 10:36 AM 3/21/00 -0800, you wrote: > > " Ray Hunter " <rayhuntermt > > > >At the risk of sounding depressing, I don't think we, as a species, are > >going to need to worry about the 100,000 year point. My guess is that we > >won't survive the resource wars set off by the next ice age. The up side >is > >that the Earth will probably have re-generated itself by then. No > >consolation for us, I admit. The Cretaceous-Tertiary extinctions were an > >unmitigated disaster for the large dinosaurs, but they provided some > >interesting opportunities for us mammals. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >LOL... Great, Ray! We just gotta hope it lasts another century or so--I >guess for our kids and grandkids maybe a little longer...after that we >gotta give the poor ol' planet a rest, for heavensakes! > >Carl >http://askcarl.net ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 At 08:48 AM 3/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >Caroline Abreu <crow > >About Jean Auel... all in the name of a good fiction ;-) > >Carl Weisbrod wrote: > > > > > > Lessee...I don't believe the Neanderthal folks were the > > jerks as she made them out to be. I guess she needed > > to do that to move the plot along. I loved the concept > > that they had innate knowledge in the use of plants--it > > fits with their large parietal lobe--larger than ours--so > > it makes sense they had some abilities we don't have. > > >Of course, we know nothing about these people, really, but this was the >part of this fantasy I could really appreciate, the concept that the >older race, the Neanderthal, had a genetic " knowing " of the migration >patterns, herbal medicine, and safety, a sort of " instinct " which is >absent in the later, more " reasoning " Others that Ayla belongs to. > >This makes the Neanderthal a more " apelike " version of man, IMO. And >ultimately, that seems to be a sad thing for them, as they are " fixed " >in their superstitions and patterns of living, unable to adjust or learn >new ways that might improve their chances of survival. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yup, sounds right to me, Caroline--except by some accounts the Neanderthals (can't recall exact numbers) were on the planet (something like) twice as long as we've been here so far. So they may have had it figured out better than our group...if the present trend continues, by the third millennium we may only be a bad memory for the ol' planet. In any case, I can't imagine us making it another 100,000 years. *whew* imagine the damage we could do in that amount of time!! Carl http://askcarl.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 About Jean Auel... all in the name of a good fiction ;-) Carl Weisbrod wrote: > > > Lessee...I don't believe the Neanderthal folks were the > jerks as she made them out to be. I guess she needed > to do that to move the plot along. I loved the concept > that they had innate knowledge in the use of plants--it > fits with their large parietal lobe--larger than ours--so > it makes sense they had some abilities we don't have. > Of course, we know nothing about these people, really, but this was the part of this fantasy I could really appreciate, the concept that the older race, the Neanderthal, had a genetic " knowing " of the migration patterns, herbal medicine, and safety, a sort of " instinct " which is absent in the later, more " reasoning " Others that Ayla belongs to. This makes the Neanderthal a more " apelike " version of man, IMO. And ultimately, that seems to be a sad thing for them, as they are " fixed " in their superstitions and patterns of living, unable to adjust or learn new ways that might improve their chances of survival. Ironically, this can be a problem for modern people who live in strictly defined roles and cultural structures, as well... the encroachment of " progress " eats away at their future. > Of course she gave the characters 20th Century > neuroses--I don't think that's accurate--wouldn't have > been good plots without it tho. I don't think society > was so tight then. My vote would go more of the single > family unit...cuz there was no technology yet for an > agrarian lifestyle--so they had to stay spread out more > to have enough food, and a buffer space as protection > from the large carnivores, at least on the savannas. > I go for the tribal unit idea, although it might have been nothing more than an extended family of sorts, like a monkey troop. I think this is so because in the early hunting/gathering cultures you would have needed more than one hunter to bring down a kill, whether by surrounding it or by running it off a cliff. I look to indigenous people still alive today for a clue on that (although it might not be a good clue, LOL, the Neanderthals are extinct). > The hunting part was certainly overblown, but necessary > for the story. > I think that in " Clan " the importance of the hunting stories was to reinforce the idea that a female's role was strictly defined by tradition and fear. Women did not touch weapons or hunt. Why? Well, this is a much later indigenous tradition, but many cultures *still* do not allow this, because of the kind of " power " women have, which the men fear on some level and are afraid it will alter their ability to hunt. This is especially important if she is in her " moontime " or having her menses, as she is even more " powerful " ... imagine, a person who bleeds and does not die! Native American culture places such a woman in a special " moon lodge " where she does not even brush her own hair for the duration (sounds like a good deal to me LOL). From our perspective in modern life, when we can go down to DeMoula's and buy a roast wrapped in plastic and cook it in an oven, the ideas of the importance of the hunting ritual and the fire ritual seem a little ridiculous. But I imagine that like Madonna says, " inside we're all still wet " ... a little time without modern conveniences and we might all regress into Lord of the Flies ;-) Just some opinions from an armchair anthropologist. -- --- Blessings, Crow " Look for Rainbows in the Darkness " --- Rev. Caroline Gutierrez Abreu, BS, RN, CHTP/I, CRMT, CH AIM: CaroCrow If a tree had apples last year, don't expect pears this year. " The hardest thing to learn in life is which bridge to cross and which to burn. " David Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 At 10:36 AM 3/21/00 -0800, you wrote: > " Ray Hunter " <rayhuntermt > >At the risk of sounding depressing, I don't think we, as a species, are >going to need to worry about the 100,000 year point. My guess is that we >won't survive the resource wars set off by the next ice age. The up side is >that the Earth will probably have re-generated itself by then. No >consolation for us, I admit. The Cretaceous-Tertiary extinctions were an >unmitigated disaster for the large dinosaurs, but they provided some >interesting opportunities for us mammals. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LOL... Great, Ray! We just gotta hope it lasts another century or so--I guess for our kids and grandkids maybe a little longer...after that we gotta give the poor ol' planet a rest, for heavensakes! Carl http://askcarl.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Carl Weisbrod wrote: > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Yup, sounds right to me, Caroline--except by some accounts > the Neanderthals (can't recall exact numbers) were on the > planet (something like) twice as long as we've been here so far. > So they may have had it figured out better than our group...if > the present trend continues, by the third millennium we may > only be a bad memory for the ol' planet. In any case, I can't > imagine us making it another 100,000 years. *whew* imagine > the damage we could do in that amount of time!! > > LOL, Carl... well, then, maybe we should use our " reasoning " capability to figure out some ways to adjust, ourselves! The current political oil crisis makes our own societal dependence pretty obvious. Would half of the US population make it through a single winter without heating oil? How about a single month without any gas at the pumps? We are politicking and sciencing our way out of our natural survival skills. I imagine the only folks who won't be affected here in such a crisis are the Amish, maybe some diehard survivalists and mountain people ;-) In an associated news flash, I heard yesterday that the folks who make Drake and Hostess cakes were on strike... better hoard your Twinkies! <G> -- --- Blessings, Crow " Look for Rainbows in the Darkness " --- Rev. Caroline Gutierrez Abreu, BS, RN, CHTP/I, CRMT, CH AIM: CaroCrow If a tree had apples last year, don't expect pears this year. " The hardest thing to learn in life is which bridge to cross and which to burn. " David Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 At 12:36 PM 3/21/00 -0800, you wrote: > " Ray Hunter " <rayhuntermt > >Studying geology tends to give one a long view. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ We're *sob* doomed, Ray!! We gotta go out and buy a white bathrobe and some sandals, and make a sign to warn the flock!!! Carl http://askcarl.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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