soapbox

[Guest guest]

Oh My God! I am really glad there is someone out there

doing all this research- but in the end, (call me

naive)arent we going to get down to 'whats best is a

good wholesome diet full of fresh, mostly plant based

foods, grown in healthy soil, a balanced approach to

life, a good source of clear water' etc etc. I mean

its great that some people are doing the research to

balance the terribly technical information that

scientists like to baffle ignorant people with to make

them feel inadequate without the scientists, but my

approach to health is just stay close to nature and

you will basically be well. Then, when things go out

of balance- come back to nature again- get rid of the

junk thats stored in your cells and organs from when

you strayed, and take herbs and foods- to help you

come back into balance with nature. In the end, nature

is God , we are intrinsic parts of nature and we

humans cannot play God the almighty without coming

unstuck.(BTW that is just a manner of speaking, I am

Buddhist not Christian) We are just not above the laws

of nature.

I dont mean science is wrong- mans present obsession

with scientific research and blind eye to the

obviousness of natural law is nature also- and there

is a good side to it all- but its not seeing the

forest for the trees. Its an extreme. The trees are

all this scientific data- the forest is our wholeness

in nature, and its really tremendously simple. I just

dont like it when that simplicity gets lost in

scientific data- or the products produced by that

information. The scientific data needs to have a clear

context in a wholistic vision coming from a deeper

understanding of our integral part of nature.

I have been studying Ayurveda lately, and I am amazed

at the system they have put together thousands of

years ago- and its total validity today, as it will be

in another few thousand years- with very little

scientific knowledge as we know it.It is so relevant,

and all I can see is science coming up with huge

amounts of data which will inevitably end up

validating what many people know already- same with

western herbs.

And while I am on my soap box, isnt being obsessed

with not getting old just a form of denial? I think

so, and I dont think obsession with anything,

particulary health , is good for the health. I am all

for being healthy, but its just unhealthy to live for

being healthy.

Every moment is precious, now, not the ones we may or

may not get to live later. Being unhealthy is only one

form of unecessary suffering, and not the worst.

love

peela

p.s. nothing personal but some of this anti aging

stuff irritates me! Glad I got it out of my system.

 

 

 

-- Greg Watson <gowatson wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> In an attempt to shed some light on why I believe

> the Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio is so important we need

> to understand

> eicosanoids:

>

> 1) PGE1 (Mostly good guy) - Anti-inflammatory,

> vasodilative, blocks allergic response, improves

> nerve function &

> enhances immune function

>

> 2) PGE2 (Mostly bad guy) - Pro-inflammatory,

> vasoconstrictive, tissue repair, platelet

> aggregation, clot formation,

> stimulates allergic response & renin secretion,

> increases glycogenolysis, suppresses immune

> function, inhibits insulin

> release, inhibits norepinephrine release from

> synaptic junction.

>

> 3) PGE3 (Mostly good guy) - Anti-inflammatory,

> vasodilative, blocks release of PG2 inflammatory

> precursors, enhances

> immune function, displaces arachidonic acid, reduces

> demand for cholesterol syntheses, stimulates

> metabolism of fat

> stores, activates T lymphocytes, enhances action of

> insulin, low in diabetics, coronary heart disease,

> depression &

> alcoholics.

>

> 4) HPETE (Mostly bad guy) - 1,000x more powerful

> than PGE's, A's, 1,000 - 10,000x more powerful

> inflammatory than

> histamine (pro-inflammatory, vasoconstrictive,

> tissue repair, platelet aggregation, clot formation,

> stimulates allergic

> response, suppresses immune function, stimulates

> secretion of mucus, airway constriction)

>

> To get more PGE1 & PGE3 production we need EPA, DHA

> & DGLA as well as ample EPA to block the production

> of too much

> Arachidonic acid which is the precursor of both PGE2

> and HPETE.

>

> Here are the mud maps of eicosanoid production.

>

> http://www.allocca.com/pathway2.gif

> http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/pdf/meta.pdf

> 18:3n-3, Omega 3

> V

> + D6D, inhibited by adrenaline, too much Omega 3,

> V blocked by NSAID's, Steroids &

> alcohol

> V

> 18:4n-3

> V

> 20:4n-3

> V

> + D5D, stimulated by insulin, inhibited by

> V glucagon & too much EPA

> V

> 20:5n-3, EPA >>> PGE3 (Good Guy)

> V

> 22:5n-3

> V

> + D4D

> V

> 22:6n-3, DHA >>> PGE3 (Good Guy)

>

> http://www.allocca.com/pathway1.gif

> http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/pdf/meta.pdf

> 18:2n-6 Omega 6

> V

> + D6D, inhibited by adrenaline, too much Omega 3,

> V blocked by NSAID's, Steroids &

> alcohol

> V

> 18:3n-6 GLA

> V

> 20:3n-6 DGLA >>> PGE1 (Good Guy)

> V

> + D5D, stimulated by insulin, inhibited by

> V glucagon & too much EPA

> V

> 20:4n-6 Arachidonic acid

> V V V

> V V + Cycloxygenase, blocked by

> NSAID's,

> V V V bioflavoids, Ginger, Vit E,

> EPA, Zinc

> V V V

> V V PGE2 (Mostly bad guy)

> V V

> V + Lipoxygenase, blocked by bioflavoids,

> V V Ginger, Vit E, EPA, Zinc,

> Selenium

> V V

> V HPETE (Mostly bad guy)

> V

> 22:4n-6

>

> The goal, to boost EPA, DHA, DGLA levels (PGE1 &

> PGE3) and inhibit Arachidonic acid (PGE2 & HPETE).

>

> ========================

> Good Health & Long Life,

> Greg Watson,

> http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gowatson

> gowatson

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

-

" Shobbrook Susan " <peelasacha

<herbal remedies >

Friday, July 13, 2001 8:08 PM

[herbal remedies] soapbox

 

 

> Every moment is precious, now, not the ones we may or

> may not get to live later. Being unhealthy is only one

> form of unnecessary suffering, and not the worst.

> love

> peela

> p.s. nothing personal but some of this anti aging

> stuff irritates me! Glad I got it out of my system.

 

Hi Pella,

 

Being 55 and being healthy is not so hard.

 

Being 75 and being healthy is somewhat harder.

 

At 85 its rear hard and dietary choices made 20 years earlier have a BIG effect.

 

What I'm doing now with my health is laying good, strong foundations for good

health as I age. When we were young,

extremes of diet didn't seem to matter as our bodies were hormonally strong and

could just about survive on anything.

However as we age, we don't have the luxury of youth and what we eat effects our

health more and more.

 

I'm on a pathway to probably becoming a vegan and I'm exploring ALL the health

issues involved. It would be nice to

think all that was required for good health in old age was to eat vegan but it

ain't so.

 

The issue of the ratio of the omega 6 fats to the omega 3 fats is very critical

to optimal health as they directly

effect the level of the eicosanoid auotcrine hormones in our bodies, Too much

of the omega 6s and your body will get

out of balance and your health will suffer, more so as you age.

 

If you found the information too technical, I'm sorry but the only way to bring

the omega 6 : 3 issue into perspective

is to be technical. The way we eat today bombards us with Omega 6 rich foods

and very little Omega 3. Add to that carb

rich diets which boost insulin and you have a recipe for eicosanoid production

out of balance and body wide health

issues.

 

In a nut shell Omega 6 produces both good and bad eicosanoids. The ratio

depends on the amount of the Omega 3 EPA for

good production and the amount of insulin for the bad production.

 

To keep they ratio leaning toward the good side, you need to get more Omega 3

rich foods and less insulin stimulation

carbs.

 

So there, that was not too technical.

 

Love you too,

Greg

 

PS: The KIM software is very easy to use and is a real eye opener as to the

Omega 6 to 3 ratio in your diet. It

surprised me as to how far out of balance my diet was!

[Guest guest]

-

" Sherry Bakko " <slbakko

<herbal remedies >

Saturday, July 14, 2001 1:30 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] soapbox

 

 

> The KIM software that is being talked about - is it for a PC or can we Apple

> people use it too? And if it us useable - would there be something on there

> to help with balancing a dogs diet. I raw feed my dogs - and would love to

> have some guidance there. Right now it is hit and miss - and what feels

> good for the day and how much.

 

Hi Sherry,

 

KIM and Dr. Walford's DWIDP food analysis software are Windows based.

 

They are excellent tools and I highly recommend them.

 

A free demo version (very usable!) is available at:

http://www.walford.com/dwdemo/dw2b63demo.exe

 

Kim is available at:

http://ods.od.nih.gov/eicosanoids/KIM_Install.exe

 

Hope this helps,

Greg :-))

[Guest guest]

on 7/13/01 4:04 PM, Greg Watson at gowatson wrote:

 

The KIM software that is being talked about - is it for a PC or can we Apple

people use it too? And if it us useable - would there be something on there

to help with balancing a dogs diet. I raw feed my dogs - and would love to

have some guidance there. Right now it is hit and miss - and what feels

good for the day and how much.

 

Sherry Bakko

>

>

> PS: The KIM software is very easy to use and is a real eye opener as to the

> Omega 6 to 3 ratio in your diet. It

> surprised me as to how far out of balance my diet was!

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Greg

 

> Hi Pella,

> Being 55 and being healthy is not so hard.

> Being 75 and being healthy is somewhat harder.

> At 85 its rear hard and dietary choices made 20

> years earlier have a BIG effect.

 

yes- I agree- but I dont think a good diet is much

more than common sense. Really.

 

 

> I'm on a pathway to probably becoming a vegan and

> I'm exploring ALL the health issues involved. It

> would be nice to

> think all that was required for good health in old

> age was to eat vegan but it ain't so.

 

Of course not because its an extreme, and a diet too

high in raw foods, particularly in cool climates, is

unhealthy- ask the chinese or indians, and they have

been around a long time.

I have been a strict vegetarian, a vegan, a

macrobiotic enthusiast, into the Blood group diet, a

strict 80% raw diet, done lots of fasting and detoxes-

over the years. I am 34. I am currently into Ayurveda-

and drinking milk, eating ghee, a little fish and

chicken. Because I cant maintain any extreme, because

I have to enjoy my diet, because I get sick on a

strict vegetarian diet, and because I love to

experiment on myself.

 

The way we eat today bombards

> us with Omega 6 rich foods and very little Omega 3.

> Add to that carb

> rich diets which boost insulin and you have a recipe

> for eicosanoid production out of balance and body

> wide health

> issues

 

I am sure that technically what you are saying is

correct, but how do you have soul in your diet when

you are measuring everything?. You cant eat from

technical tables and lists, you have to relate to it

from your heart.

 

Last year I went to a naturopathic seminar (they talk

just like you!)and sat next to a medical doctor with

an interest in alternative medicine who had recently

been to France to the World Conference on Longevity or

some such thing. He told me that the single factor

that produced more long living people in France than

any other country was the fact that they ate

1000calories a day less than the British across the

channel. There were scientists from all over the world

there proposing their longevity theories, and he

reckoned the conclusion of the whole conference was

simply that overeating caused unecessary aging. They

looked at other factores in the French diet, such as

red wine, olives, whatever- but they didnt account.

The French tend to eat fresh food bought regularly

from the local stores daily, white bread, regular

small quantites of chocolate and pastries (as in one

piece of chocolate after a meal), lots of stuff we

would consider unhealthy- but their food is fresh, and

they dont eat as much. There have been oodles of tests

done on animals which have shown that animals on a

reduced calorie diet live longer.

 

 

> To keep they ratio leaning toward the good side, you

> need to get more Omega 3 rich foods and less insulin

> stimulation

> carbs.

>

> So there, that was not too technical.

 

 

I have done technical, I have studied sciences in my

naturopathic training, my dad is a scientist, and if I

thought technical was going to help, I would- I am

capable of understanding it, even the chemistry. I

just think if you take the heart and soul out of

eating - which modern, highly processed junk food has

done- you miss, no matter what you technically put in

your mouth. Measuring everything according to its

nutritional status is as souless as eating junk food.

And a home cooked meal , cooked by someone who loves

to cook, which is technically too high in saturated

fat may do you more good, in other words nourish you,

more than a technically correct one with the correct

balance of Omegas if its prepared by someone who sees

the food only in technical terms. Food has many

dimensions. ( I am not saying you do that, i dont

know)

I like to keep it simple, and I can get obsessional

over my health, so I watch that too, and try to keep a

balanced outlook.

 

My 2 cents

love

peela

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

-

" Shobbrook Susan " <peelasacha

<herbal remedies >

Saturday, July 14, 2001 8:12 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] soapbox

 

 

> I like to keep it simple, and I can get obsessional

> over my health, so I watch that too, and try to keep a

> balanced outlook.

 

Hi Pella,

 

So do I and I love to cook!

 

I do the technical studies to get a good " feeling " about which foods to use and

which to try to avoid. I do the numbers

once, then it is done. Have a look at the Omega ratio veggie list I just

posted. It makes it simple to avoid anything

with a 3 : 6 ratio of less than 1.

 

I cook by intuition, feeling & taste. I also love good Aussie red wine!

 

Greg

[Guest guest]

Dear Greg, I have to give you full points for

persistence!

love

peela

 

 

Have a look at the Omega

> ratio veggie list I just posted. It makes it simple

> to avoid anything

> with a 3 : 6 ratio of less than 1.

>

 

=====

May the long time sun shine upon you, all love suround you, and the pure light

within you guide your way on.

Traditional Blessing

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

-

" Peela " <peelasacha

<herbal remedies >

Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:12 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] soapbox

 

 

> Dear Greg, I have to give you full points for

> persistence!

> love

 

Hi Peela,

 

You understand the power of herb food on the body to bring about change. I

understand the power of food to do the same.

 

I don't ignore the power of herbs and use them daily.

 

Eicosanoids are fatty based hormones which every one of the 60 trillion cells in

you body makes to sense the environment

around the cell and thus cause the cell to react to change. Eicosanoids are the

most powerful, yet most the primitive

hormone in the body. They have very simple and primitive control systems (they

were the first hormones) and the number

and balance of the good and bad ones is determined by the amount of the Omega 6

& Omega 3 essential fats we eat as these

fats are the raw material from which they are formed.

 

They literally bring truth to the saying " You are what you eat " .

 

As an example headaches are caused by the blood vessels in the brain

constricting due to too many bad eicosanoids.

Anything which has the effect of reducing / eliminating the headache has done so

by reducing the number of bad

eicosanoids being produced by the cells in the blood vessels.

 

Greg :-))