Metabolic Pathways of the Omega-3 and Omega-6 Fatty Acids

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

From this conversion pathway breakdown it can be seen that both Omega 6 & Omega

3 share common conversion enzymes (delta

4/5/6 desaturase) and this helps to explain why eating too much Omega 6 may

reduce the ability of the body to convert

dietary Omega 3 into both EPA and DHA fatty acids.

 

Neither Omega 6 or Omega 3 can be made by the body and must come from dietary

sources.

 

Most veggie rich diets are very heavily Omega 6 biased and thus even using daily

flax seed / oil may not provide

sufficient internal EPA & DHA due to the large intake of Omega 6 using up most

of the delta 4/5/6 desaturase conversion

enzymes.

 

Current US suggestions for daily consumption are:

 

< 8 g Omega 6

> 2.5 g Omega 3

~ 0.65 g DHA

~ 0.65 g EPA

 

http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/pdf/meta.pdf

Metabolic Pathways of the Omega-3 and Omega-6 Fatty Acids

 

Omega 3 Omega 6

(ALA / 18:3n-3) (LA / 18:2n-6)

V ------ delta-6-desaturase ----- V

Stearidonic acid Gamma-linolenic acid

(18:4n-3) (GLA / 18:3n-6)

V V

20:4n-3 Dihomo-gammalinolenic acid

V (DGLA / 20:3n-6)

V ------ delta-5-desaturase ----- V

Eicosapentaenoic acid Arachidonic acid

(EPA / 20:5n-3) (AA / 20:4n-6)

V V

22:5n-3 Adrenic acid

V (22:4n-6)

V ------ delta-4-desaturase ----- V

Docosahexaenoic acid 22:5n-6

(DHA / 22:6n-3)

 

========================

Good Health & Long Life,

Greg Watson,

http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gowatson

gowatson

[Guest guest]

, " Greg Watson " <gowatson@a...> wrote:

 

>

> Most veggie rich diets are very heavily Omega 6 biased and thus even using

daily flax seed / oil may not provide

> sufficient internal EPA & DHA due to the large intake of Omega 6 using up most

of the delta 4/5/6 desaturase conversion

> enzymes.

 

It is interesting to note that almost all chinese doctors I have worked

with have emphasized the use of animal foods as key factors in longterm

health. Much to the chagrin of vegan patients and students has been

the admonition to " eat more meat " . While commercial meat has a skewed

fat ratio, lean free range meat has a composition more like game and

fish, with a good o-3/o-6 ratio. I have been debating the issue of

diet with a medical doctor who is a macobiotics advocate. He finally

admitted that most the benfits of such a diet may be due to calorie

restriction and could probably be had from a lean meat and veggie diet

with much lower grain intake (macros may eat 50-60% grain). However,

he still insisted that the phytonutrients in grains played an important

role. I would argue that the phytonutrients in green and root veggies

easily address this concern without affecting insulin levels as

strongly. We also have the highly allergenic nature of many grains

such as wheat and corn. again, the apparent benefits of a vegan diet

may be skewed when compared to the standard american diet (starch,

sugar, commercial meat, few veggies).

 

It is a statistical error to then say that meat is bad for health

without comparison to the diet I describe. An interesting corrollary

to this is the observation in recent years that cholesterol levels do

not correlate very well with incidence of heart attacks, but B-12

deficiency does and B-12 is most abundant in meat. I think the problem

with high grain diets is that they are congesting and phlegm producing,

while high veggie diets without meat are too cleansing and depleting.

The japanese, the longest lived industrial people in the world do eat a

high protein diet of fish with veggies. They do not appear to eat as

much rice as poorer asian countries, thus supporting my supposition

that grain centered diets may be very economically motivated. It would

be interesting to see a study of japanese centenarians and see what

their diet actually is. More fish or more rice?

 

[Guest guest]

-

<

 

Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:31 AM

Re: Metabolic Pathways of the Omega-3 and Omega-6

Fatty Acids

 

 

> It would

> be interesting to see a study of Japanese centenarians and see what

> their diet actually is. More fish or more rice?

 

Hi

 

Have a look at the Okinawa Centenarian Study:

http://okicent.org/index.html

 

Greg

[Guest guest]

Excellent study!

 

Actually, it seems to confirm the grain/vegetable oriented diet, no?

 

 

 

 

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 05:57 PM, Greg Watson wrote:

 

 

> -

> < (AT) inetarena (DOT) com>

>

> Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:31 AM

> Re: Metabolic Pathways of the Omega-3 and Omega-6 Fatty Acids

>

>

> > It would

> > be interesting to see a study of Japanese centenarians and see what

> > their diet actually is.  More fish or more rice?

>

> Hi

>

> Have a look at the Okinawa Centenarian Study:

> http://okicent.org/index.html

>

> Greg

>

>

>

 

 

[Guest guest]

So, was the Chinese dietary emphasis on grains just economics?

 

Let's look at what Hu Szu-hui's "Yin shan cheng yao" (A Soup for the Qan: Chinese Dietary Medicine of the Mongol Era) has to say about a few grains (Buell/Anderson translation):

 

1) Wheat: sweet in flavor, slightly cooling, lacks toxin. Good to expel heat, control fidgetiness, DIABETES (wasting thirst in the Chinese characters listed), and dry throat. It benefits the urine, nourishes the liver, controls pain and blood spitting.

 

 

 

2) Barley: salty flavor, slightly cooling, lacks toxin. Is good for DIABETES (xiao ke/wasting thirst), expels heat, increases qi and harmonizes the center. It is the best of the five grains. The "Yao xing lun" says it can digest old food retained in the stomach and intestines.

 

While not a definitive text, it is one of the few translations of a historical dietary material medica. There are some confusing statements, and possible mistakes, but it does give some valuable information of food-stuffs.

 

 

 

 

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 08:01 AM, (AT) inetarena (DOT) com wrote:

 

>

>

> It is interesting to note that almost all chinese doctors I have worked

> with have emphasized the use of animal foods as key factors in longterm

> health.  Much to the chagrin of vegan patients and students has been

> the admonition to "eat more meat".  While commercial meat has a skewed

> fat ratio, lean free range meat has a composition more like game and

> fish, with a good o-3/o-6 ratio.  I have been debating the issue of

> diet with a medical doctor who is a macobiotics advocate.  He finally

> admitted that most the benfits of such a diet may be due to calorie

> restriction and could probably be had from a lean meat and veggie diet

> with much lower grain intake (macros may eat 50-60% grain).  However,

> he still insisted that the phytonutrients in grains played an important

> role.  I would argue that the phytonutrients in green and root veggies

> easily address this concern without affecting insulin levels as

> strongly.  We also have the highly allergenic nature of many grains

> such as wheat and corn.  again, the apparent benefits of a vegan diet

> may be skewed when compared to the standard american diet (starch,

> sugar, commercial meat, few veggies). 

>

> It is a statistical error to then say that meat is bad for health

> without comparison to the diet I describe.  An interesting corrollary

> to this is the observation in recent years that cholesterol levels do

> not correlate very well with incidence of heart attacks, but B-12

> deficiency does and B-12 is most abundant in meat.  I think the problem

> with high grain diets is that they are congesting and phlegm producing,

> while high veggie diets without meat are too cleansing and depleting. 

> The japanese, the longest lived industrial people in the world do eat a

> high protein diet of fish with veggies.  They do not appear to eat as

> much rice as poorer asian countries, thus supporting my supposition

> that grain centered diets may be very economically motivated.  It would

> be interesting to see a study of japanese centenarians and see what

> their diet actually is.  More fish or more rice?

>

 

>

>

>

>

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Greg Watson "

<gowatson@a...> wrote:

 

>

> Hi

>

> Have a look at the Okinawa Centenarian Study:

> http://okicent.org/index.html

>

> Greg

 

I read the study. It seems to lend support for a high complex

carb diet, not a high protein diet.

 

[Guest guest]

-

<

 

Friday, June 29, 2001 10:40 AM

Re: Metabolic Pathways of the Omega-3 and Omega-6

Fatty Acids

 

 

> > Greg

>

> I read the study. It seems to lend support for a high complex

> carb diet, not a high protein diet.

>

Hi

 

Yup............... I'm not a fan of a " High " protein diet or a high / low

anything diet.

 

I target protein to around 100 g gross and with a estimated NPU (Net Protein

Utilization) of about 70 %, I get ~ 70 g

which puts me at 85 g above the US RDA of 0.8 g per kg but not too much higher.

 

I don't go for high anything and try to balance my protein, carbs & fat to that

which seems to be needed for health &

longevity. Carbs are almost all low GI veggies. Haven't used sugar or salt for

years. Don't miss them at all!

 

I currently eat about 1,600 cals at a PFC of 25:55:20 or

 

Protein: 100 g / 400 cals / 25 %

Fat: 35 g / 320 cals / 20 %

Carbs: 220 g / 880 cals / 55 %

 

I use Dr. Walfords DWIDP software to track the energy & nutrient content of my

diet. This software (a very good free

demo version downloadable below) is the best I have seen and is based on the

USDA SR13 database:

http://www.walford.com/software.htm

 

His book " Beyond the 120 Year Diet " is a very good read.

 

========================

Good Health & Long Life,

Greg Watson,

http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gowatson

gowatson

[Guest guest]

, " Greg Watson " <gowatson@a...> wrote:

 

>

> I currently eat about 1,600 cals at a PFC of 25:55:20 or

>

> Protein: 100 g / 400 cals / 25 %

> Fat: 35 g / 320 cals / 20 %

> Carbs: 220 g / 880 cals / 55 %

 

 

It looks like we ultimately come back to avoiding high glycemic index

foods like refined flours, white rice and sugar. Putting the most

emphasis on veggies, less on grains, then adding some lean meat, eggs,

fish and/or tofu. I think most people will feel better longterm on

this type of diet than on a vegan macrobiotic or raw nuts, seeds and

veggies diet. Moderation wins again. I would suspect that with the

high fish content of the okinawan diet, it comes pretty close to what

you describe here. Many vegans eat a very large amount of refined

carbs. But even a huge amount of brown rice (say 50% of calories)

would be hard on insulin levels. And we should be very careful about

white rice. some chinese teachers will tell you that the chinese have

always had white rice, but this is not true. rice may have been

partially milled in ancient times, but it was not completely defibered

until this century. A word to newbies on this list. I use the polemic

technique of debate at times. which means I will take an extreme

position to draw out reasoned responses until we can reach some

rational consensus. I always seek evidence, not opinion, to convince

me. As they say, its not over till its over. thanks to all who argued

this issue, especially Zev and Greg.

 

[Guest guest]

-

<

 

Friday, June 29, 2001 3:03 PM

Re: Metabolic Pathways of the Omega-3 and Omega-6

Fatty Acids

 

 

> Many vegans eat a very large amount of refined

> carbs.

 

Hi

 

While I'm not anti-Vegan, I see little sense in eating too many carbs to get at

low NPU protein and maybe have problems

with EAAs (essential amino acids). I eat some dairy and fish (normally tuna &

salmon) & limit eggs to around 2 a week.

My weekly dietary cholesterol intake is around 100 mg.

 

Keeping a positive nitrogen balance & adequate NO levels (via arginine) are seen

to be essential to preserving bone

density (NO reduces osteoclast (bone destroying cells) activity) as we age and

lysine has good effect on improving

bioavailability of dietary calcium.

 

A good trick to get good omega 3 conversion into EPA then DHA is to take your

ground flax / linseed in the morning

before you have eaten any omega 9 or omega 6. This way there is no competition

for the conversion enzymes.

 

Greg