Guest guest Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 Ken, Thanks for posting this article. There are a couple of things about it that particularly interest me. The authors, who the translator says have access to the highest levels of government, have analyzed SARS from a Chinese medical viewpoint, and seem to be critical of so-called integrated medicine. This seems contrary to the characterization generally made on this list of Chinese TCM doctors having lost touch with the roots of Chinese medicine in their attempt to be " scientific " , and who focus on bing rather than zheng. Clearly this is not true of these authors. They also make a large part of their case on the basis of what I imagine a few years ago would met with great official disapproval, ie the more metaphysical aspects of Chinese medical theory to be found in the Nei Jing. Do you know any more about the Ping Xin Tang clinic, or the authors? Rory All, I just posted a file containing the article by Drs. Fan Zheng Lun and Zhang Xiao Tong, which is an analysis of SARS from a TCM perspective. I think there are some weaknesses in the article, but wanted to put it up for people to read. It also contains a prediction which is timely, and so I thought I'd let it stand on its own merits and serve to forward the discussion...and let anyone interested see to what extent the prediction comes true. Ken -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 I agree. this is one of the most interesting modern Chinese medical articles I've seen in 'many a moon'. I very much appreciate the elegant discussions of seasonal qi vis a vis the Nei Jing and its application to the SARS epidemic. I also appreciate the discussions on diet and its importance. But, best of all, the admonishments 1) not to direct all medical resources to tracking down a mutating virus 2) to avoid the overuse of strong medications which can drive the illness deeper in the body (noting the SARS relapse rate in some locations). As the authors point out, bacteria, viruses and other pathogens are all around us. However, according to CM, they are 'activated' by imbalances between the environment and internal correct qi. Balancing these factors goes a long way in overcoming the factors that feed many epidemics. This stuff is revolutionary for modern health care. It reminds me of why I got involved with Chinese medicine in the first place. Who is the translator? Thanks again, On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 04:13 PM, Rory Kerr wrote: > Ken, > > Thanks for posting this article. There are a couple of things about it > that particularly interest me. > > The authors, who the translator says have access to the highest levels > of government, have analyzed SARS from a Chinese medical viewpoint, > and seem to be critical of so-called integrated medicine. This seems > contrary to the characterization generally made on this list of > Chinese TCM doctors having lost touch with the roots of Chinese > medicine in their attempt to be " scientific " , and who focus on bing > rather than zheng. Clearly this is not true of these authors. > > They also make a large part of their case on the basis of what I > imagine a few years ago would met with great official disapproval, ie > the more metaphysical aspects of Chinese medical theory to be found in > the Nei Jing. > > Do you know any more about the Ping Xin Tang clinic, or the authors? > > Rory > > > > All, > > I just posted a file containing the article by > Drs. Fan Zheng Lun and Zhang Xiao Tong, which > is an analysis of SARS from a TCM perspective. > > I think there are some weaknesses in the article, > but wanted to put it up for people to read. > It also contains a prediction which is > timely, and so I thought I'd let it stand > on its own merits and serve to forward the > discussion...and let anyone interested see > to what extent the prediction comes true. > > Ken > > -- > > <image.tiff> > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 Z'ev, Glad you liked it. This Dr. Fan is a fascinating character. As I said, I find some weaknesses in the article, but I'm going to wait to see what others have to say before I offer my own critique. The guy who translated it is Jason Robertson. I met Jason a few years ago on Qing Cheng Mountain in the teahouse of a temple called Tian Shi Dong. Our paths crossed again here in Beijing a few months back, and he introduced me to Dr. Wang Ju Yi who works at the same clinic where the authors of the article work. These Chinese lineologies are always so complicated! Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 Rory, > > On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 04:13 PM, Rory Kerr wrote: > > > Ken, > > > > Thanks for posting this article. There are a couple of things about it > > that particularly interest me. > > > > The authors, who the translator says have access to the highest levels > > of government, have analyzed SARS from a Chinese medical viewpoint, > > and seem to be critical of so-called integrated medicine. This seems > > contrary to the characterization generally made on this list of > > Chinese TCM doctors having lost touch with the roots of Chinese > > medicine in their attempt to be " scientific " , and who focus on bing > > rather than zheng. Clearly this is not true of these authors. I've tried to make the point that it is not nearly as generally true as some would have us believe. In fact, the bulk of the teachers that I've met and studied with over the years here in the PRC are very much in touch with the roots of Chinese medicine. When I reject the characterizations of what's going on in mainland China by those who have either never been here or who have spent limited periods of time in one or two locations, I do so mainly out of this fact. My own experience has not shown me that modern doctors by and large have rejected, neglected, or otherwise disrespected the traditional transmissions. I have seen just the opposite. I do not reject the proposition that those who present such characterizations have indeed had their own experiences which justify the conclusions to which they have come. I accept as given that this is true. What I reject is the curious urge that many seem to have to sum up and dismiss a vastly complicated scene on the basis of personal experience alone...or worse on the basis of reading about the experiences of others. > > > > They also make a large part of their case on the basis of what I > > imagine a few years ago would met with great official disapproval, ie > > the more metaphysical aspects of Chinese medical theory to be found in > > the Nei Jing. Look, official disapproval is a part of life in China. Always has been, probably always will be. It is not a characteristic that is unique to the current government. There's an old saying in China that teaches us that it's good live far away from the palace. And that's pretty much true no matter who occiupies the capital or whether it's positioned in the north or in the south, as it has cyclically relocated throughout Chinese history. To understand what's going on here, you have to first get past the surfaces of things and come into contact with people where they really live. The human spirit is not so easily oppressed. Press it down on the right and it emerges on the left. Press it down in front and out it pops in the back. The government has its role and plays it. Individuals have their roles and play them. Read the newspapers and now the history of the 1960s in the USA. There is always a huge gap between offical lines and individual realities. It's very important for people to understand that the scene on the ground here is complex beyond belief. It's particularly interesting now that this SARS crisis has once again ripped several gaping holes in the cultural and societal fabric, allowing us to see the condition of the body politic beneath these coverings. > > > > Do you know any more about the Ping Xin Tang clinic, or the authors? I've been there a dozen times or so over the past few months. We've had our camera crews there filming this fellow Jason Robertson who did the translation and his teacher Dr. Wang. I've met with Zhang Xiao Tong and had a fairly lengthy conversation about his goals and objectives. He is the son of a former Minister of Health and is quite well connected in medical circles here in Beijing. But, as is reflected in the article, he is quite cocnerned about the transmission of traditional Chinese medicine. And Pin Xin Tang is an environemnt which reflects these concerns. That's one of the reasons why I was comfortable being treated myself by Dr. Wang there. I'm not sure what else you might like to know. They are just now moving to a new location in order to expand the capcity of their clinic. I'm hoping to get an international training program set up under Dr. Wang's direction, and Pin Xin Tang will be one of the clinics we use for offering instruction to small groups of Chinese and non-Chinese students and doctors. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 , " dragon90405 " wrote: > I'm hoping to get an international training > program set up under Dr. Wang's direction, > and Pin Xin Tang will be one of the clinics > we use for offering instruction to small > groups of Chinese and non-Chinese students > and doctors. >>> Ken: This is really a fascinating article. My interest in it is partly because it is the kind of theorizing that is not only an analysis but even predictive (an element that is clearly missing from most TCM theory)---the kind of theorizing my teacher often did. I don't think the term " metaphysics " correctly applies to this area of CM. For those who are interested in more of this kind of theorizing, Unschuld's new book on the Nei Jing has an extensive appendix which also covers many similar ideas. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Thanks for the file, Wil. Will read it tomorrow. As for the coffee. Without the sugar and milk it probably isn't so bad for you, as I think it is a diuretic and has some antioxidants. Same with sugarless chocolate, yucch. Although chocolate gives me breast lumps almost instantly. And makes me feel depressed when it wears off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 From my research drinking drinking coffee with out cream you are stripping your body of calcium and magnesium. Our body need high amounts of calcium and magnesium to process the caffeine. By adding cream to your coffee you are giving your body the needed calcium and magnesium along with the extra amino acids so you do not strip your soft tissues and joints of calcium and magnesium. The other issue is the lactase enzyme issue to handle the cream. Most people today lack the capacity to make lactase. It is a bit of a catch 22. Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcherVibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA."The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and prevention of disease." Thomas Edison"Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right." Henry Ford"Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength." Corrie Ten Boom"Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937 http://mbsre-set.com http://environotics.com http://beeassist.com Kelly W. <kellykebby Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 11:28:40 PM File Thanks for the file, Wil.. Will read it tomorrow. As for the coffee. Without the sugar and milk it probably isn't so bad for you, as I think it is a diuretic and has some antioxidants. Same with sugarless chocolate, yucch. Although chocolate gives me breast lumps almost instantly. And makes me feel depressed when it wears off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Should we add cream to tea as well? Ashley , Wil Spencer <wilspencer wrote: > > From my research drinking drinking coffee with out cream you are stripping your body of calcium and magnesium. Our body need high amounts of calcium and magnesium to process the caffeine. By adding cream to your coffee you are giving your body the needed calcium and magnesium along with the extra amino acids so you do not strip your soft tissues and joints of calcium and magnesium. The other issue is the lactase enzyme issue to handle the cream. Most people today lack the capacity to make lactase. It is a bit of a catch 22. > > Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcher > Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA. > > " The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and prevention of disease. " Thomas Edison > " Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right. " Henry Ford > " Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength. " Corrie Ten Boom > " Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought. " Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937 > > http://mbsre-set.com > http://environotics.com > http://beeassist.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > Kelly W. <kellykebby > > Tue, January 12, 2010 11:28:40 PM > File > > > Thanks for the file, Wil. Will read it tomorrow. As for the coffee. Without the sugar and milk it probably isn't so bad for you, as I think it is a diuretic and has some antioxidants. Same with sugarless chocolate, yucch. Although chocolate gives me breast lumps almost instantly. And makes me feel depressed when it wears off. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 most certainly!The heavy cream is best. Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcherVibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA."The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and prevention of disease." Thomas Edison"Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right." Henry Ford"Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength." Corrie Ten Boom"Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937 http://mbsre-set.com http://environotics.com http://beeassist.com ashred25 <ashbar25 Sent: Fri, January 22, 2010 12:50:47 PM Re: File Should we add cream to tea as well? Ashley , Wil Spencer <wilspencer@ ...> wrote: > > From my research drinking drinking coffee with out cream you are stripping your body of calcium and magnesium. Our body need high amounts of calcium and magnesium to process the caffeine. By adding cream to your coffee you are giving your body the needed calcium and magnesium along with the extra amino acids so you do not strip your soft tissues and joints of calcium and magnesium. The other issue is the lactase enzyme issue to handle the cream. Most people today lack the capacity to make lactase. It is a bit of a catch 22. > > Wil Spencer VMSP, Naturopath, author, researcher > Vibrational Medical Science Practitioner; working with the body's electrical system which consists of all muscles, connective tissue,nerve sheaths, rod and cone cells of the eyes and the DNA. > > "The doctor of the future will give no medicines, but will interest patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause and prevention of disease." Thomas Edison > "Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right." Henry Ford > "Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow. It empties today of its strength." Corrie Ten Boom > "Discovery consists of seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought." Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937 > > http://mbsre- set.com > http://environotics .com > http://beeassist. com > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Kelly W. <kellykebby@ ...> > > Tue, January 12, 2010 11:28:40 PM > File > > > Thanks for the file, Wil. Will read it tomorrow. As for the coffee. Without the sugar and milk it probably isn't so bad for you, as I think it is a diuretic and has some antioxidants. Same with sugarless chocolate, yucch. Although chocolate gives me breast lumps almost instantly. And makes me feel depressed when it wears off. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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