Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 What yardstick can we use to draw a line between spiritual concepts and religious concepts. If I mention that I am a Wiccan or an Astrologer, am I in violation of the rules, as stated? Are certain beliefs, such as a belief in crystals or reiki allowed, but not a belief in prayer? Is it to whom, or to what, one prays that determines whether one is truly " spiritual " or just merely " religious " . What about the degree to which one believes in a certain treatment? What about a prescription med that contains a certain amount of herb? It it verboten to speak of it? Is it a matter of processing? Does one qualify as " okay " to post about because it is greater than 50% unprocessed? What is safe to talk about and what isn't? If I find that I was healed through a laying on of hands by a reiki master, is it okay to talk about it, but talking about being healed through laying on of hands at a church service is a taboo? I am interested in how anyone can be expected to check their opinions at the door when they enter into the group mailbox. I am not talking about actively recruiting others on the list into your religion. I am talking about whether the shaman can express his opinion on how the " unseen " and " unprovable " can alter a person's physical maladies. I cannot understand why people go running in terror at the mere mention of religion. The idea, I thought, was to try and help one another with " alternative " healing methods. Prayer is just as " alternative " as crystals, isn't it? ______________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 Dearest Radiant Greetings Jerry & Family, I truly enjoyed your questions and they have a great deal of validity. I specifically enjoyed your conversation about Reiki, crystals in relation to spirituality versus religion. Many people are trying to find their way along their spiritual paths right now and many have no idea what " consciousness " is. It is a pleasure to be here to observe this and possibly participate in these discussions. Your terms used as " astrologer " or " Wiccan " are labels that people use to identify with something. Most people try really hard to stuff people like myself into a box by using a label. Probably like you--I wear many hats at any given moment. I prefer to not label anything because it places limits upon it which is sometimes viewed as a judgment. In radiance, Cherie , Jerry Cass <tango_niner@j...> wrote: > What yardstick can we use to draw a line between spiritual concepts and > religious concepts. If I mention that I am a Wiccan or an Astrologer, am > I in violation of the rules, as stated? Are certain beliefs, such as a > belief in crystals or reiki allowed, but not a belief in prayer? Is it > to whom, or to what, one prays that determines whether one is truly > " spiritual " or just merely " religious " . What about the degree to which > one believes in a certain treatment? What about a prescription med that > contains a certain amount of herb? It it verboten to speak of it? Is it > a matter of processing? Does one qualify as " okay " to post about because > it is greater than 50% unprocessed? What is safe to talk about and what > isn't? If I find that I was healed through a laying on of hands by a > reiki master, is it okay to talk about it, but talking about being healed > through laying on of hands at a church service is a taboo? I am > interested in how anyone can be expected to check their opinions at the > door when they enter into the group mailbox. I am not talking about > actively recruiting others on the list into your religion. I am talking > about whether the shaman can express his opinion on how the " unseen " and > " unprovable " can alter a person's physical maladies. I cannot understand > why people go running in terror at the mere mention of religion. The > idea, I thought, was to try and help one another with " alternative " > healing methods. Prayer is just as " alternative " as crystals, isn't it? > > ______________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 Hi Jerry and Everyone, Here's my .02 cents on this whole matter. yes, spirituality affects health, no doubt. And there is nothing wrong with mentioning your beliefs. However, the line is crossed when people send entire posts specifically to gain converts to their chosen religion, be it Muslim, Christian, Wiccan or Hindu (etc.) The purpose of this list is to discuss alternative health issues, which certainly should include whatever form of spirituality you believe, but I do not want to read entire articles on the glories of fundie christians, or any other religion on this list. I belong to several lists already that address my personal religious beliefs. I am interested in results others have had in treating ailments in a non-traditional way, and hopefully to add some of my results to the mix. So, if you want to mention that you are a Druid, and Druids use a particular herb to treat a certain condition, I will be very interested to read it. If the point of the post is to convince me I must become a Druid or burn in hell, it doesn't belong here. Ok, maybe that was .03 cents. > What yardstick can we use to draw a line between spiritual concepts and > religious concepts. If I mention that I am a Wiccan or an Astrologer, am > I in violation of the rules, as stated? Are certain beliefs, such as a > belief in crystals or reiki allowed, but not a belief in prayer? Is it > to whom, or to what, one prays that determines whether one is truly > " spiritual " or just merely " religious " . What about the degree to which > one believes in a certain treatment? What about a prescription med that > contains a certain amount of herb? It it verboten to speak of it? Is it > a matter of processing? Does one qualify as " okay " to post about because > it is greater than 50% unprocessed? What is safe to talk about and what > isn't? If I find that I was healed through a laying on of hands by a > reiki master, is it okay to talk about it, but talking about being healed > through laying on of hands at a church service is a taboo? I am > interested in how anyone can be expected to check their opinions at the > door when they enter into the group mailbox. I am not talking about > actively recruiting others on the list into your religion. I am talking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 > What yardstick can we use to draw a line between spiritual concepts and > religious concepts. The distinction I use is that spiritual is about my personal relationship with God/Spirit/Being/Truth, and religion is any group that holds the same beliefs about God/Spirit/Being/Truth and does the same practices. In other words, there's a great deal of overlap. By that definition, Reiki (as I learned it, anyway) is a religion. Some people consider crystals a tool of New Age religion. Herbology was once considered a practice of a religion. As Jerry has said, I don't think what matters is whether some approach is spiritual or religious, but whether the post is about health and healing. I attend a church that's part of a religion that was begun based on a physical healing of TB by one of its co-founders using spiritual practices. It currently has one of the most active prayer ministries in the world. Any time I have health issues, I submit prayer requests as part of my approach to healing. I have no investment in converting anyone to my religious beliefs, and I won't refrain from talking about what has worked for me and for people I know. I have personal stories of healing that allopathic doctors said weren't possible. Do people not want to hear about them because part of the approach I took was a spiritual one? Nearly 25 years ago, one of my close friends recovered from the most advanced case of Hodgkin's Disease that anyone ever has. Do people not want to hear about that because part of the approach she took was a spiritual one? I recently heard an amazing story of healing of a child who was brain damaged. The doctors' prognosis was that she would live her life like a vegetable. Her mother used religious means to heal her after physicians had given up on her. That former child is now Assistant Attorney General of Texas. Do people not want to hear about that because her mother used a religious approach? (By the way, the religious approach she used is one that doesn't particularly appeal to me, but I wanted to hear it anyway.) I don't believe that something being religious or spiritual makes it off-topic. Whether it's about health and healing or not, IMO, determines whether it's on or off-topic. I don't agree with every post and every approach mentioned. That doesn't make them off-topic if they're about health and healing. I just delete the ones that don't appeal to me. On the other hand, posts about religion (or anything else) that are unrelated to health and healing are, I agree, off-topic. Warmly, Michael Santa Fe, NM ohanamd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 Amen, When walking the good red road... I tend to take from all beliefs what resonates with me. If it resonates with me then it is my truth and what may be my truth may not be anothers.. All spiritual roads lead to the same place just different routes used. Namaste, Vivian - <clhaydon Sunday, December 29, 2002 8:47 PM Re: Spiritual vs Religious > Dearest Radiant Greetings Jerry & Family, > > I truly enjoyed your questions and they have a great deal of > validity. I specifically enjoyed your conversation about Reiki, > crystals in relation to spirituality versus religion. Many people > are trying to find their way along their spiritual paths right now > and many have no idea what " consciousness " is. It is a pleasure to > be here to observe this and possibly participate in these discussions. > > Your terms used as " astrologer " or " Wiccan " are labels that people > use to identify with something. Most people try really hard to stuff > people like myself into a box by using a label. Probably like you--I > wear many hats at any given moment. I prefer to not label anything > because it places limits upon it which is sometimes viewed as a > judgment. > > In radiance, > Cherie > > , Jerry Cass > <tango_niner@j...> wrote: > > What yardstick can we use to draw a line between spiritual concepts > and > > religious concepts. If I mention that I am a Wiccan or an > Astrologer, am > > I in violation of the rules, as stated? Are certain beliefs, such > as a > > belief in crystals or reiki allowed, but not a belief in prayer? > Is it > > to whom, or to what, one prays that determines whether one is truly > > " spiritual " or just merely " religious " . What about the degree to > which > > one believes in a certain treatment? What about a prescription med > that > > contains a certain amount of herb? It it verboten to speak of it? > Is it > > a matter of processing? Does one qualify as " okay " to post about > because > > it is greater than 50% unprocessed? What is safe to talk about and > what > > isn't? If I find that I was healed through a laying on of hands > by a > > reiki master, is it okay to talk about it, but talking about being > healed > > through laying on of hands at a church service is a taboo? I am > > interested in how anyone can be expected to check their opinions at > the > > door when they enter into the group mailbox. I am not talking about > > actively recruiting others on the list into your religion. I am > talking > > about whether the shaman can express his opinion on how > the " unseen " and > > " unprovable " can alter a person's physical maladies. I cannot > understand > > why people go running in terror at the mere mention of religion. > The > > idea, I thought, was to try and help one another with " alternative " > > healing methods. Prayer is just as " alternative " as crystals, > isn't it? > > > > ______________ > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > > Only $9.95 per month! > > Visit www.juno.com > > > ************************************************** > > WWW.PEACEFULMIND.COM Sponsors Alternative Answers- > > HEALING NATURALLY- this is the premise of HOLISTIC HEALTH. Preventative and Curative measure to take for many ailments at: > http://www.peacefulmind.com/ailments_frame.htm > __________ > > -To INVITE A FRIEND to our healing community, copy and paste this address in an email to them: > http://www./members_add > > _________ > To ADD A LINK, RESOURCE, OR WEBSITE to Alternative Answers please Go to: > > http://www./links > > ___________ > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > _______ > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 I'm with you 100% on many differents hats and labels. Nice meeting you. Karima ---- Sunday, December 29, 2002 20:47:10 Re: Spiritual vs Religious Dearest Radiant Greetings Jerry & Family,I truly enjoyed your questions and they have a great deal of validity. I specifically enjoyed your conversation about Reiki, crystals in relation to spirituality versus religion. Many people are trying to find their way along their spiritual paths right now and many have no idea what "consciousness" is. It is a pleasure to be here to observe this and possibly participate in these discussions.Your terms used as "astrologer" or "Wiccan" are labels that people use to identify with something. Most people try really hard to stuff people like myself into a box by using a label. Probably like you--I wear many hats at any given moment. I prefer to not label anything because it places limits upon it which is sometimes viewed as a judgment.In radiance,Cherie , Jerry Cass <tango_niner@j...> wrote:> What yardstick can we use to draw a line between spiritual concepts and> religious concepts. If I mention that I am a Wiccan or an Astrologer, am> I in violation of the rules, as stated? Are certain beliefs, such as a> belief in crystals or reiki allowed, but not a belief in prayer? Is it> to whom, or to what, one prays that determines whether one is truly> "spiritual" or just merely "religious". What about the degree to which> one believes in a certain treatment? What about a prescription med that> contains a certain amount of herb? It it verboten to speak of it? Is it> a matter of processing? Does one qualify as "okay" to post about because> it is greater than 50% unprocessed? What is safe to talk about and what> isn't? If I find that I was healed through a laying on of hands by a> reiki master, is it okay to talk about it, but talking about being healed> through laying on of hands at a church service is a taboo? I am> interested in how anyone can be expected to check their opinions at the> door when they enter into the group mailbox. I am not talking about> actively recruiting others on the list into your religion. I am talking> about whether the shaman can express his opinion on how the "unseen" and> "unprovable" can alter a person's physical maladies. I cannot understand> why people go running in terror at the mere mention of religion. The> idea, I thought, was to try and help one another with "alternative"> healing methods. Prayer is just as "alternative" as crystals, isn't it?> > ______________> Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today> Only $9.95 per month!> Visit www.juno.com**************************************************WWW.PEACEFULMIND.COM Sponsors Alternative Answers-HEALING NATURALLY- this is the premise of HOLISTIC HEALTH. Preventative and Curative measure to take for many ailments at:http://www.peacefulmind.com/ailments_frame.htm__________-To INVITE A FRIEND to our healing community, copy and paste this address in an email to them:http://www./members_add _________To ADD A LINK, RESOURCE, OR WEBSITE to Alternative Answers please Go to: http://www./links___________Community email addresses: Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner _______Shortcut URL to this page: http://www. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 Yes, Vivian, you are so right and the words of that prayer beging with the words "Toward the One" Karima ---- Sunday, December 29, 2002 22:08:40 Re: Re: Spiritual vs Religious Amen, When walking the good red road... I tend to take from all beliefs whatresonates with me. If it resonates with me then it is my truth and what maybe my truth may not be anothers.. All spiritual roads lead to the sameplace just different routes used. Namaste, Vivian-<clhaydonSunday, December 29, 2002 8:47 PM Re: Spiritual vs Religious> Dearest Radiant Greetings Jerry & Family,>> I truly enjoyed your questions and they have a great deal of> validity. I specifically enjoyed your conversation about Reiki,> crystals in relation to spirituality versus religion. Many people> are trying to find their way along their spiritual paths right now> and many have no idea what "consciousness" is. It is a pleasure to> be here to observe this and possibly participate in these discussions.>> Your terms used as "astrologer" or "Wiccan" are labels that people> use to identify with something. Most people try really hard to stuff> people like myself into a box by using a label. Probably like you--I> wear many hats at any given moment. I prefer to not label anything> because it places limits upon it which is sometimes viewed as a> judgment.>> In radiance,> Cherie>> , Jerry Cass> <tango_niner@j...> wrote:> > What yardstick can we use to draw a line between spiritual concepts> and> > religious concepts. If I mention that I am a Wiccan or an> Astrologer, am> > I in violation of the rules, as stated? Are certain beliefs, such> as a> > belief in crystals or reiki allowed, but not a belief in prayer?> Is it> > to whom, or to what, one prays that determines whether one is truly> > "spiritual" or just merely "religious". What about the degree to> which> > one believes in a certain treatment? What about a prescription med> that> > contains a certain amount of herb? It it verboten to speak of it?> Is it> > a matter of processing? Does one qualify as "okay" to post about> because> > it is greater than 50% unprocessed? What is safe to talk about and> what> > isn't? If I find that I was healed through a laying on of hands> by a> > reiki master, is it okay to talk about it, but talking about being> healed> > through laying on of hands at a church service is a taboo? I am> > interested in how anyone can be expected to check their opinions at> the> > door when they enter into the group mailbox. I am not talking about> > actively recruiting others on the list into your religion. I am> talking> > about whether the shaman can express his opinion on how> the "unseen" and> > "unprovable" can alter a person's physical maladies. I cannot> understand> > why people go running in terror at the mere mention of religion.> The> > idea, I thought, was to try and help one another with "alternative"> > healing methods. Prayer is just as "alternative" as crystals,> isn't it?> >> > ______________> > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today> > Only $9.95 per month!> > Visit www.juno.com>>> **************************************************>> WWW.PEACEFULMIND.COM Sponsors Alternative Answers->> HEALING NATURALLY- this is the premise of HOLISTIC HEALTH. Preventativeand Curative measure to take for many ailments at:> http://www.peacefulmind.com/ailments_frame.htm> __________>> -To INVITE A FRIEND to our healing community, copy and paste this addressin an email to them:> http://www./members_add>> _________> To ADD A LINK, RESOURCE, OR WEBSITE to Alternative Answers please Go to:>> http://www./links>> ___________> > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > _______> Shortcut URL to this page:> http://www.>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 Totally agree with you Vivian...we are going to the same place...Ann Vivian Darlene Parson <darlene wrote: Amen,When walking the good red road... I tend to take from all beliefs whatresonates with me. If it resonates with me then it is my truth and what maybe my truth may not be anothers.. All spiritual roads lead to the sameplace just different routes used.Namaste,Vivian-Sunday, December 29, 2002 8:47 PM Re: Spiritual vs Religious> Dearest Radiant Greetings Jerry & Family,>> I truly enjoyed your questions and they have a great deal of> validity. I specifically enjoyed your conversation about Reiki,> crystals in relation to spirituality versus religion. Many people> are trying to find their way along their spiritual paths right now> and many have no idea what "consciousness" is. It is a pleasure to> be here to observe this and possibly participate in these discussions.>> Your terms used as "astrologer" or "Wiccan" are labels that people> use to identify with something. Most people try really hard to stuff> people like myself into a box by using a label. Probably like you--I> wear many hats at any given moment. I prefer to not label anything> because it places limits upon it which is sometimes viewed as a> judgment.>> In radiance,> Cherie>> , Jerry Cass> wrote:> > What yardstick can we use to draw a line between spiritual concepts> and> > religious concepts. If I mention that I am a Wiccan or an> Astrologer, am> > I in violation of the rules, as stated? Are certain beliefs, such> as a> > belief in crystals or reiki allowed, but not a belief in prayer?> Is it> > to whom, or to what, one prays that determines whether one is truly> > "spiritual" or just merely "religious". What about the degree to> which> > one believes in a certain treatment? What about a prescription med> that> > contains a certain amount of herb? It it verboten to speak of it?> Is it> > a matter of processing? Does one qualify as "okay" to post about> because> > it is greater than 50% unprocessed? What is safe to talk about and> what> > isn't? If I find that I was healed through a laying on of hands> by a> > reiki master, is it okay to talk about it, but talking about being> healed> > through laying on of hands at a church service is a taboo? I am> > interested in how anyone can be expected to check their opinions at> the> > door when they enter into the group mailbox. I am not talking about> > actively recruiting others on the list into your religion. I am> talking> > about whether the shaman can express his opinion on how> the "unseen" and> > "unprovable" can alter a person's physical maladies. I cannot> understand> > why people go running in terror at the mere mention of religion.> The> > idea, I thought, was to try and help one another with "alternative"> > healing methods. Prayer is just as "alternative" as crystals,> isn't it?> >> > ______________> > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today> > Only $9.95 per month!> > Visit www.juno.com>>> **************************************************>> WWW.PEACEFULMIND.COM Sponsors Alternative Answers->> HEALING NATURALLY- this is the premise of HOLISTIC HEALTH. Preventativeand Curative measure to take for many ailments at:> http://www.peacefulmind.com/ailments_frame.htm> __________>> -To INVITE A FRIEND to our healing community, copy and paste this addressin an email to them:> http://www./members_add>> _________> To ADD A LINK, RESOURCE, OR WEBSITE to Alternative Answers please Go to:>> http://www./links>> ___________> > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > _______> Shortcut URL to this page:> http://www.>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 Wow, good post . Combine yours with Vivian's, and there's the perfect answer, IMO. Ann <b wrote: Hi Jerry and Everyone,Here's my .02 cents on this whole matter. yes, spirituality affects health,no doubt. And there is nothing wrong with mentioning your beliefs. However,the line is crossed when people send entire posts specifically to gainconverts to their chosen religion, be it Muslim, Christian, Wiccan or Hindu(etc.) The purpose of this list is to discuss alternative health issues,which certainly should include whatever form of spirituality you believe,but I do not want to read entire articles on the glories of fundiechristians, or any other religion on this list. I belong to several listsalready that address my personal religious beliefs. I am interested inresults others have had in treating ailments in a non-traditional way, andhopefully to add some of my results to the mix. So, if you want to mentionthat you are a Druid, and Druids use a particular herb to treat a certaincondition, I will be very interested to read it. If the point of the post isto convince me I must become a Druid or burn in hell, it doesn't belonghere.Ok, maybe that was .03 cents.> What yardstick can we use to draw a line between spiritual concepts and> religious concepts. If I mention that I am a Wiccan or an Astrologer, am> I in violation of the rules, as stated? Are certain beliefs, such as a> belief in crystals or reiki allowed, but not a belief in prayer? Is it> to whom, or to what, one prays that determines whether one is truly> "spiritual" or just merely "religious". What about the degree to which> one believes in a certain treatment? What about a prescription med that> contains a certain amount of herb? It it verboten to speak of it? Is it> a matter of processing? Does one qualify as "okay" to post about because> it is greater than 50% unprocessed? What is safe to talk about and what> isn't? If I find that I was healed through a laying on of hands by a> reiki master, is it okay to talk about it, but talking about being healed> through laying on of hands at a church service is a taboo? I am> interested in how anyone can be expected to check their opinions at the> door when they enter into the group mailbox. I am not talking about> actively recruiting others on the list into your religion. I am talking**************************************************WWW.PEACEFULMIND.COM Sponsors Alternative Answers-HEALING NATURALLY- this is the premise of HOLISTIC HEALTH. Preventative and Curative measure to take for many ailments at:http://www.peacefulmind.com/ailments_frame.htm__________-To INVITE A FRIEND to our healing community, copy and paste this address in an email to them:http://www./members_add _________To ADD A LINK, RESOURCE, OR WEBSITE to Alternative Answers please Go to: http://www./links___________Community email addresses:Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: - List owner: -owner _______Shortcut URL to this page:http://www. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2002 Report Share Posted December 30, 2002 > Do people not>want to hear about them because part of the approach I took was a>spiritual one?I may be being presumptious in commenting as I am so new to the list, but I am very interested, because I have read a great deal on the power of the mind in regard to healing. Jo ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release 25/12/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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