Who is Jesus?

[Guest guest]

Actually, you failed to quote many of the quotes Jesus made of His

divine status, and you have failed to note the context of His visit

to Earth.

 

Matt.11:8, Jesus is discussing the Sabbath, and states He is

the " Lord of the Sabbath. " He is here giving statement of His

authority. In Matt.13:41, He discusses when He will send out His

angels, and Matt. 16:27,28 coming in the glory of His Father and in

His Kingdom. In the first chapter of the Gospel of John, the

explanation of the status of the Creator, the Word, and Jesus is

clearly given. In Isaiah 9:6, various names are given for Jesus,

including Mighty God, Everlasting Father.

 

You have read between the lines so to speak and made what appears to

be some valid claims, but have failed to note the underlying position

of why those claims might be valid. They are only valid up to a

point, such as Jesus not appearing to see the future and therefore

not being possible that He is God. To understand the true meaning of

what you think you understand, you first must consider the reason for

Jesus coming to this earth to begin with. Adam, a creation in the

flesh, failed the test of appetite and loyalty, and so brought sin

via Satan into our world. God didn't create a robot of Adam, he

simply failed to obey God--he acted out of choice. The purpose of

Jesus coming to this earth was to show that man could obey God out of

choice. However, Jesus voluntarily had laid aside His divinity, when

He was clothed with humanity, because He had to be tempted in all

points as we are or humanity could say with objection, that God

could'nt sin, and therefore couldn't be tempted, and therefore

couldn't undergo the same test as man had to undergo in Eden, and

therefore couldn't be perfect.

 

In other words, God was willing to set aside His Godship in the form

of man, as Jesus, to answer the claims of a Holy God--Himself, that

man could live in perfect obedience to God, albeit in total

dependence on the power of God to overcome the temptation to sin. So

as Jesus, the power of God had been set aside to live our life on

this earth to challenge the claims of Satan, and therefore the claims

of humanity that tried to say God's creatures couldn't keep His Law.

If Jesus had taken up the power He had set aside in order to not fall

victim to sin, than we could all claim He had an unfair advantage.

Fortunately for us, He did not pick up His laid aside power, but

instead lived a sinless life in perfect harmony with His Father whom

the Bible claims He is. Just because you in your finite human state

don't understand the relationship of God, His only Begotten and His

Holy Spirit, doesn't mean God gave you license to make a human

opinion into something more than just that.

 

The Bible in various places is quite clear about interpretation--2nd

Peter 1:20 is clear about scripture not being subject to private

interpretation. The Bible must be compared to itself on all points,

not to human opinion when it isn't understood.

 

The Bible is as clear as it needs to be that Jesus, before He took on

the human state, created the Universe, came to this earth in the form

of humanity as Jesus, with a laid aside divinity, that He took up

again when He went home to heaven after resurrection, before He was

seen by His disciples (to be accepted of His Father, returned to be

examined by His followers to confirm His identity, and went back to

heaven until the fulness of time should be reached that all peoples

will be judged, and receive their reward when He returns.

 

Beyond that, there is some documentation from a publisher in

California, of charges that Islam, was a creation of the Papacy in

the 7th century A.D. after it was determined that the early crusades

were not going to be succesful in gaining Jerusalem for the Papacy.

The creation of Islam was to have been a driving wedge, to help the

crusaders capture Jerusalem for the Papacy. It is a pity though,

because as any true Bible student knows, God granted Israel their

requested divorce when He stated to them " your house is left unto you

desolate " Matt. 23:38. God was not and is not interested in the

physical city of Jerusalem, as are the Jews and the Palestinian

groups. He is interested in the hearts of the residents and their

spiritual loyalties as part of His creation. But they are apparently

more interested in perpetuating violence than they are in living

under the wishes of God as stated in Eccles. 12:13.

 

 

, mfgg x <romaroad16>

wrote:

> Who is Jesus?

>

> Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God,

the second person in the " Holy trinity. " However, the very Bible

which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis

for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge

you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following

conclusions are not drawn out of context:

>

> 1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not

> When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence

of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, " but of that day and

hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither

the son, but the Father. " Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows

all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own

admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear

proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not

God.

>

> 2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not

> While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the

power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he

said, " Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of

himself, but what he seeth the Father do... " St. John 5:19. Again he

said, " I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my

judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of

the Father which hath sent me. " St. John 5:30. But God is not only

all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That

Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear

proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not

God.

>

> 3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.

> God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call

upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was

one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, " l ascend

unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God. " St. John

20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, " My

God, my God why hast thou forsaken me? " Matt 27:46. If Jesus were

God, then couldn't this be read, " Myself, myself why hast thou

forsaken me? " Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the

Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the

garden of Gethsemane he prayed, " O my Father, if it be possible, let

this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt. "

Matt 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own

admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and

prayed to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is

not God.

>

> 4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood

> While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said

that this could not be done with God when he said. " No man hath seen

God at any time. " St. John 1:18. ' " Ye have neither heard His voice at

any time nor seen His shape. " St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John

4:24. " God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in

spirit and in truth. " That Jesus would say that no one had seen or

heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is

clear proof that Jesus was not God.

>

> 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus

acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct

from his own.

> Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not

equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth

of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, " My Father is greater

than I. " When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17,

Jesus responded, " Why callest thou me good? There is none good but

one, that is God... " Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions

between himself and God when he said, " I proceeded forth and came

from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me. " St. John 8:42.

Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than

his equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, " not my will but

thine be done " and in St. John 5:30, " I seek not mine own will but

the will of the Father which hath sent me. " That Jesus would admit

that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was

directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater

than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to

affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the

Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God.

>

> Conclusion

> The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge

about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is

not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what

basis have you come to believe otherwise?

>

> My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a

Trinity is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus

as presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect

unity.

>

> If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship

to Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.

>

>

> What is the word of God about Jesus:

>

> A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:

> That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they

are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to

Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it " Be " , and it is.

(Qur'an 19:34,35).

>

> And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You

have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh

rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh

fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful

a son; and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is

there in the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a

servant (Qur'an 19:88-93).

>

> Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness;

He created him of dust, then said He unto him, " Be " , and he was.

(Qur'an 3:59).

>

> People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and

say not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was

only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary,

and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say

not, 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God.

Glory be on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that

which is in the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a

guardian. (Qur'an 4:171)

>

> B. Regarding Jesus being God:

> And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, " Take

me and my mother as gods, apart from God? " He Said, 'To You be Glory!

It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it,

You knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what

is within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them

what You did command me: " Serve God, my Lord and your Lord. " And I

was a witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You

did take me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of

everything. (Quran 5:116,117)

>

> C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:

> And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty

calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of

Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither

crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who

are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him,

they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and

they did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to

Him; God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the

Book but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the

Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-

159)

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