NIACIN

[Guest guest]

Sometimes i will recommend it for acute psychosis. Otherwise, niacin is best

taken as part of a balanced B vitamin supplement.

 

I could see where some diabetics might like the idea because it does increase

microcirculation. This is something that ought to be studied somehow. There

are many other things that do this, and they are worth looking into.

 

Generally, diabetics do best with lots of small meals throughout the day, with

some of those being mostly protein.

 

That's certainly not everyone's opinion, but it is mine based on experience.

 

On Tue, 03 Sep 2002 01:01:58 -0000 rebecca_kapp <rebecca_kapp

wrote:

 

> New member: What is everyone's opinion on

> nician for diabetics?

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have taken it before for migraines - it seems to open up the blood vessels and getmore blood up to the head and helps the headache... haven't done this in awhile.

Suzi

Michael Riversong wrote:

Sometimes i will recommend it for acute psychosis. Otherwise, niacin is besttaken as part of a balanced B vitamin supplement.I could see where some diabetics might like the idea because it does increasemicrocirculation. This is something that ought to be studied somehow. Thereare many other things that do this, and they are worth looking into. Generally, diabetics do best with lots of small meals throughout the day, withsome of those being mostly protein.That's certainly not everyone's opinion, but it is mine based on experience.On Tue, 03 Sep 2002 01:01:58 -0000 rebecca_kapp wrote:> New member: What is everyone's opinion on> nician for diabetics?> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom,

 

Nicotinamide is just the chemists name for niacin. Same stuff. So your not having trouble finding it, just not used to the name.

 

Don

[Guest guest]

No there not the same nicotinamide is artificial and does not

work .Get niacin but take it on a gradient with the rest of your

vita

Tom

Victim wrote:

 

Can

someone tell me if Nicotinamide is the same as Niacin as I am having trouble

finding Niacin at the shops. ThanksTom

 

-

 

Organic

Pets

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:01

AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Irene

Hi, No

it wasn't me, ROLOL. Not really have much of a problem over here in the

UK :-) Irene

 

 

Hi Irene, I thought it was you that was complaining about the

mosquito spraying for the west nile virus in your area. I could

be

wrong, maybe it was someone else. I was just commenting that the

spraying is certainly more dangerous to everyone. Kathe

 

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any

natural remedy.

3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician

and to

prescribe for your own health.

We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here

as long as

they behave themselves.

Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and

any person

following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own

risk.

It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice

or products from list members, you are agreeing to

be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner

and members free of any liability.

Dr. Ian Shillington

Doctor of Naturopathy

Dr.IanShillington

 

[Guest guest]

Actually, nicotinamide and niacinamide are the amide form of niacin which does not cause the flushing of the skin. In other words, it does not cause the capillaries to dilate. So if you are referring to the fact that you don't get a flush and therefore it does not work, then you are correct. However, if you are referring to it being used in the cell's energy production then you are mistaken as it does work for this.

 

Don

 

-

tvogel1104

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:38 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Niacin

No there not the same nicotinamide is artificial and does not work .Get niacin but take it on a gradient with the rest of your vita Tom Victim wrote:

Can someone tell me if Nicotinamide is the same as Niacin as I am having trouble finding Niacin at the shops. ThanksTom

-

Organic Pets

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:01 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Irene Hi, No it wasn't me, ROLOL. Not really have much of a problem over here in the UK :-) Irene

Hi Irene, I thought it was you that was complaining about the mosquito spraying for the west nile virus in your area. I could be wrong, maybe it was someone else. I was just commenting that the spraying is certainly more dangerous to everyone. Kathe

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to prescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian Shillington Doctor of Naturopathy Dr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

This dilation of the cells opens them up so the cells can release stored

up toxins and residual radiation which is stored in the cells . The flush

is this phenomenon occurring and is, in fact desirable. A very interesting

phenomena connected with this is that these flushes appear to roam. One

day you might get a flush on the outside of your ears from old sunburns,

the next day in the middle of your back. I've seen flush patterns of old

bathing suit straps appear after taking niacin. The flushing or prickling

sensations are important to your health. As you encreace the amount alonge

with you vita you clean more out of the body

yours Tom

Donald Eitner wrote:

Actually,

nicotinamide and niacinamide are the amide form of niacin which does not

cause the flushing of the skin. In other words, it does not cause the capillaries

to dilate. So if you are referring to the fact that you don't get a flush

and therefore it does not work, then you are correct. However, if you are

referring to it being used in the cell's energy production then you are

mistaken as it does work for this. Don

 

-

 

tvogel1104

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:38

AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Niacin

No there not the same nicotinamide is artificial and does not

work .Get niacin but take it on a gradient with the rest of your

vita

Tom

Victim wrote:

 

Can

someone tell me if Nicotinamide is the same as Niacin as I am having trouble

finding Niacin at the shops. ThanksTom

 

-

 

Organic

Pets

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:01

AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Irene

Hi, No

it wasn't me, ROLOL. Not really have much of a problem over here in the

UK :-) Irene

 

 

Hi Irene, I thought it was you that was complaining about the

mosquito spraying for the west nile virus in your area. I could

be

wrong, maybe it was someone else. I was just commenting that the

spraying is certainly more dangerous to everyone. Kathe

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any

natural remedy.

3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician

and to

prescribe for your own health.

We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here

as long as

they behave themselves.

Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and

any person

following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own

risk.

It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice

or products from list members, you are agreeing to

be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner

and members free of any liability.

Dr. Ian Shillington

Doctor of Naturopathy

Dr.IanShillington

 

[Guest guest]

Hi you should get the book Clear Body Clear Mind by L Ron Hubbard

and read it and decide for your self. Giving niacin to someone with out

the proper balance can cause bad effects too.

yours Ton Vogel

Victim wrote:

after reading

this information I believe it may be the flushing effect that may best

help my aging mother with her mental health problems she is going through,I

have heard it is very good for restoring blood flow to area;s of the brain.does

this sound like I am on the right track. ThanksTom

 

-

 

tvogel1104

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 8:12

AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Niacin

This dilation of the cells opens them up so the cells can release

stored up toxins and residual radiation which is stored in the cells .

The flush is this phenomenon occurring and is, in fact desirable. A very

interesting phenomena connected with this is that these flushes appear

to roam. One day you might get a flush on the outside of your ears from

old sunburns, the next day in the middle of your back. I've seen flush

patterns of old bathing suit straps appear after taking niacin. The flushing

or prickling sensations are important to your health. As you encreace the

amount alonge with you vita you clean more out of the body

yours Tom

Donald Eitner wrote:

Actually,

nicotinamide and niacinamide are the amide form of niacin which does not

cause the flushing of the skin. In other words, it does not cause the capillaries

to dilate. So if you are referring to the fact that you don't get a flush

and therefore it does not work, then you are correct. However, if you are

referring to it being used in the cell's energy production then you are

mistaken as it does work for this. Don

 

-

 

tvogel1104

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:38

AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Niacin

No there not the same nicotinamide is artificial and does not

work .Get niacin but take it on a gradient with the rest of your

vita

Tom

Victim wrote:

 

Can

someone tell me if Nicotinamide is the same as Niacin as I am having trouble

finding Niacin at the shops. ThanksTom

 

-

 

Organic

Pets

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:01

AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Irene

Hi, No

it wasn't me, ROLOL. Not really have much of a problem over here in the

UK :-) Irene

 

 

Hi Irene, I thought it was you that was complaining about the

mosquito spraying for the west nile virus in your area. I could

be

wrong, maybe it was someone else. I was just commenting that the

spraying is certainly more dangerous to everyone. Kathe

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any

natural remedy.

3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician

and to

prescribe for your own health.

We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here

as long as

they behave themselves.

Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and

any person

following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own

risk.

It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice

or products from list members, you are agreeing to

be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner

and members free of any liability.

Dr. Ian Shillington

Doctor of Naturopathy

Dr.IanShillington

 

[Guest guest]

after reading this information I believe it may be the flushing effect that may best help my aging mother with her mental health problems she is going through,I have heard it is very good for restoring blood flow to area;s of the brain.does this sound like I am on the right track.

 

Thanks

Tom

 

-

tvogel1104

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 8:12 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Niacin

This dilation of the cells opens them up so the cells can release stored up toxins and residual radiation which is stored in the cells . The flush is this phenomenon occurring and is, in fact desirable. A very interesting phenomena connected with this is that these flushes appear to roam. One day you might get a flush on the outside of your ears from old sunburns, the next day in the middle of your back. I've seen flush patterns of old bathing suit straps appear after taking niacin. The flushing or prickling sensations are important to your health. As you encreace the amount alonge with you vita you clean more out of the body yours Tom Donald Eitner wrote: Actually, nicotinamide and niacinamide are the amide form of niacin which does not cause the flushing of the skin. In other words, it does not cause the capillaries to dilate. So if you are referring to the fact that you don't get a flush and therefore it does not work, then you are correct. However, if you are referring to it being used in the cell's energy production then you are mistaken as it does work for this. Don

-

tvogel1104

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:38 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Niacin No there not the same nicotinamide is artificial and does not work .Get niacin but take it on a gradient with the rest of your vita Tom Victim wrote:

Can someone tell me if Nicotinamide is the same as Niacin as I am having trouble finding Niacin at the shops. ThanksTom

-

Organic Pets

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:01 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Irene Hi, No it wasn't me, ROLOL. Not really have much of a problem over here in the UK :-) Irene

Hi Irene, I thought it was you that was complaining about the mosquito spraying for the west nile virus in your area. I could be wrong, maybe it was someone else. I was just commenting that the spraying is certainly more dangerous to everyone. KatheFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to prescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian Shillington Doctor of Naturopathy Dr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

By the sounds of the way Niacin acts it could possible unclog all the blocked capillaries of the brain that so often happen as people age.I used to have a friend who owned a plastics manufacturing business for the medical industry and dealt with many top level surgeons.He was told to never eat margarine as the oils are not soluble at body temperature and therefore will just build up over the years guaranteeing you a nice dose of dimenture for your old age.

 

Tom.

 

-

tvogel1104

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 8:12 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Niacin

This dilation of the cells opens them up so the cells can release stored up toxins and residual radiation which is stored in the cells . The flush is this phenomenon occurring and is, in fact desirable. A very interesting phenomena connected with this is that these flushes appear to roam. One day you might get a flush on the outside of your ears from old sunburns, the next day in the middle of your back. I've seen flush patterns of old bathing suit straps appear after taking niacin. The flushing or prickling sensations are important to your health. As you encreace the amount alonge with you vita you clean more out of the body yours Tom Donald Eitner wrote: Actually, nicotinamide and niacinamide are the amide form of niacin which does not cause the flushing of the skin. In other words, it does not cause the capillaries to dilate. So if you are referring to the fact that you don't get a flush and therefore it does not work, then you are correct. However, if you are referring to it being used in the cell's energy production then you are mistaken as it does work for this. Don

-

tvogel1104

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:38 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Niacin No there not the same nicotinamide is artificial and does not work .Get niacin but take it on a gradient with the rest of your vita Tom Victim wrote:

Can someone tell me if Nicotinamide is the same as Niacin as I am having trouble finding Niacin at the shops. ThanksTom

-

Organic Pets

herbal remedies

Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:01 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Irene Hi, No it wasn't me, ROLOL. Not really have much of a problem over here in the UK :-) Irene

Hi Irene, I thought it was you that was complaining about the mosquito spraying for the west nile virus in your area. I could be wrong, maybe it was someone else. I was just commenting that the spraying is certainly more dangerous to everyone. KatheFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to prescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian Shillington Doctor of Naturopathy Dr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

I take Niacin daily. I take 100 mg and have been doing so for around 9 months to

a year and still get a flush

(never as bad as you state). I recently switched brands when I ran out and am

getting a bigger, hotter flush. I

wouldn't go over 100 mg until that flush levels out and then gradiently raise

the level.

 

Marti

 

JavaBoley wrote:

 

> Hello,

> I don't post very often but have been a longtime lurker

> I noticed the post about Niacin and had a comment to share. I am

> particularly sensitive to it and wonder if anyone else has had this problem.

> I understand that a 'flushing' can occur but I get flushed, hot, and hives

> to go with it. If I do nothing, then I am miserable and it will last for

> hours. The only way I can get it to calm down is to take something like

> Benadryl, which then will knock me out for the rest of the day. So now, I am

> very careful about supplements and amounts of niacin.

> ~Brandy

>

> Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:29:17 -0800

> " Dragonhealer " <dragonhealing

> Re: What about niacin?

>

> No, you'd have to take sooo much to even get side effects. I believe it is

> water soluble and flushed out of the body rather quickly. It is obviously

> doing great good for you by your own account and you should pay attention to

> your body, it is telling you the truth here I think ;-)

>

> Janet

>

>

> Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

> 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural

remedy.

> 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to

> prescribe for your own health.

> We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as

> they behave themselves.

> Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person

> following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk.

> It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from

list members, you are agreeing to

> be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members

free of any liability.

>

> Dr. Ian Shillington

> Doctor of Naturopathy

> Dr.IanShillington

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>>Once I took more than the recommended amount of Niacin....i got similar

to you... so what if you reduce the amount you take?

Suzi

>>>I take Niacin daily. I take 100 mg and have been doing so for around 9

months to a year and still get a flush (never as bad as you state). I

recently switched brands when I ran out and am getting a bigger, hotter

flush. I wouldn't go over 100 mg until that flush levels out and then

gradiently raise the level.

Marti

 

Yes, i can take it in smaller amounts. The last supplement I had

taken contained about 80mg, and that was too much. Now i take a whole foods

supplment which only contain 10mg Niacin per tablet....you are supposed to

take 3 a day, which I confess, I don't always get.

 

>>>>>Brandy, glad to see you post hon ;-) Make sure you have " inositol

hexaniacinate " derived niacin with no artificial anything in the prep, it is

" flush free " . Shitake mushrooms are a source of niacin as well.

Janet

 

Thank you very much. I will definately pay attention to the type of

niacin I am getting. I already have a blushing disorder, Idiopathic

Craniofacial Erythema.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the extra sensitivity to niacin.

OOoh and I love Shitake mushrooms!!! I am vegetarian and cook a lot of

things with all kinds of 'shrooms! Portabellos and shitake. So maybe I get

enough naturally?

~Brandy

[Guest guest]

I once took 200mg of Niacin, and the heat got so bad that I fainted. I woke up on the floor - no idea how long I'd been out. I'm okay with about 50mg - I can handle more but only if I work up to it VERY gradually, and it would then have to be as part of a whole set of supplements.

 

Lisa

 

-

JavaBoley

herbal remedies

Friday, November 08, 2002 12:08 PM

[herbal remedies] Re: Niacin

>>>Once I took more than the recommended amount of Niacin....i got similarto you... so what if you reduce the amount you take?Suzi>>>I take Niacin daily. I take 100 mg and have been doing so for around 9months to a year and still get a flush (never as bad as you state). Irecently switched brands when I ran out and am getting a bigger, hotterflush. I wouldn't go over 100 mg until that flush levels out and thengradiently raise the level.Marti Yes, i can take it in smaller amounts. The last supplement I hadtaken contained about 80mg, and that was too much. Now i take a whole foodssupplment which only contain 10mg Niacin per tablet....you are supposed totake 3 a day, which I confess, I don't always get. >>>>>Brandy, glad to see you post hon ;-) Make sure you have "inositolhexaniacinate" derived niacin with no artificial anything in the prep, it is"flush free". Shitake mushrooms are a source of niacin as well.Janet Thank you very much. I will definately pay attention to the type ofniacin I am getting. I already have a blushing disorder, IdiopathicCraniofacial Erythema.I wonder if that has anything to do with the extra sensitivity to niacin.OOoh and I love Shitake mushrooms!!! I am vegetarian and cook a lot ofthings with all kinds of 'shrooms! Portabellos and shitake. So maybe I getenough naturally?~Brandy

[Guest guest]

That's ok....I love your opinions...

 

Kim

 

herbal remedies, " chinesemedicineman "

<chinesemedicineman> wrote:

> In the last few days, there has been a lot of posts on niacin.

> This is my unsolicited view of reactions from niacin.

>

> 1. If you get a reaction from niacin, you are taking too much.

> So take less, or better yet get your nutrients the NATURAL WAY,

> from whole foods. I'm not sure the reaction is such a good thing.

>

> 2. One view about why the reaction takes place is that

> you have taken more than your body can process( receptor sites

etc.)

> so the reaction is caused by excess niacin in the blood.

> As the body absorbs the excess the reaction subsides.

>

> 3. Taking large amounts of supplements can cause imbalances

> in the body. Humans are designed to get their nutrients from

> digesting FOOD. Food is your best medicine.

> Supplements, especially in large doses should

> only be taken to correct a known nutritional imbalance.

>

> 4. If your body has a reaction to something,

> ITS TRYING TO TELL YOU SOMETHING.

> Why have you decided that you are smarter than 100,000 years

> of evolution, or God's engineering. (you choose)

>

> 5. If you must take supplemental niacin, take less more often.

>

> 6. Niacin and other supplements comes from companies

> that are usually one step down from the pharmaceutical companies.

>

> 8. If you insist on taking large amounts of niacin, and you get a

reaction,

> don't complain or get surprised, WHAT did you expect? At least

you

> know its working!

>

> Many of you will disagree with this list, that why its called

> an opinion.

>

>

> thoughtfully,

> Michael

[Guest guest]

Absolutely Lisa! Niacin taken in larger quantities has the capability of burning up other vitamins such as C, D and some of the other B-Complex vitamins. When one increases the Niacin, the other vitamins need to be increased as well to compensate for this.

Love,

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

Lisa Belcher

herbal remedies

Friday, November 08, 2002 12:28 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] Re: Niacin

 

I once took 200mg of Niacin, and the heat got so bad that I fainted. I woke up on the floor - no idea how long I'd been out. I'm okay with about 50mg - I can handle more but only if I work up to it VERY gradually, and it would then have to be as part of a whole set of supplements.

 

Lisa

 

-

JavaBoley

herbal remedies

Friday, November 08, 2002 12:08 PM

[herbal remedies] Re: Niacin

>>>Once I took more than the recommended amount of Niacin....i got similarto you... so what if you reduce the amount you take?Suzi>>>I take Niacin daily. I take 100 mg and have been doing so for around 9months to a year and still get a flush (never as bad as you state). Irecently switched brands when I ran out and am getting a bigger, hotterflush. I wouldn't go over 100 mg until that flush levels out and thengradiently raise the level.Marti Yes, i can take it in smaller amounts. The last supplement I hadtaken contained about 80mg, and that was too much. Now i take a whole foodssupplment which only contain 10mg Niacin per tablet....you are supposed totake 3 a day, which I confess, I don't always get. >>>>>Brandy, glad to see you post hon ;-) Make sure you have "inositolhexaniacinate" derived niacin with no artificial anything in the prep, it is"flush free". Shitake mushrooms are a source of niacin as well.Janet Thank you very much. I will definately pay attention to the type ofniacin I am getting. I already have a blushing disorder, IdiopathicCraniofacial Erythema.I wonder if that has anything to do with the extra sensitivity to niacin.OOoh and I love Shitake mushrooms!!! I am vegetarian and cook a lot ofthings with all kinds of 'shrooms! Portabellos and shitake. So maybe I getenough naturally?~Brandy

[Guest guest]

I was trying to get rid of a headache at the time - it got rid of the headache alright, and almost my head with it LOL

Lisa

 

-

Dr. Ian Shillington

herbal remedies

Saturday, November 09, 2002 6:05 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Re: Niacin

 

Absolutely Lisa! Niacin taken in larger quantities has the capability of burning up other vitamins such as C, D and some of the other B-Complex vitamins. When one increases the Niacin, the other vitamins need to be increased as well to compensate for this.

Love,

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

Lisa Belcher

herbal remedies

Friday, November 08, 2002 12:28 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] Re: Niacin

 

I once took 200mg of Niacin, and the heat got so bad that I fainted. I woke up on the floor - no idea how long I'd been out. I'm okay with about 50mg - I can handle more but only if I work up to it VERY gradually, and it would then have to be as part of a whole set of supplements.

 

Lisa

 

-

JavaBoley

herbal remedies

Friday, November 08, 2002 12:08 PM

[herbal remedies] Re: Niacin

>>>Once I took more than the recommended amount of Niacin....i got similarto you... so what if you reduce the amount you take?Suzi>>>I take Niacin daily. I take 100 mg and have been doing so for around 9months to a year and still get a flush (never as bad as you state). Irecently switched brands when I ran out and am getting a bigger, hotterflush. I wouldn't go over 100 mg until that flush levels out and thengradiently raise the level.Marti Yes, i can take it in smaller amounts. The last supplement I hadtaken contained about 80mg, and that was too much. Now i take a whole foodssupplment which only contain 10mg Niacin per tablet....you are supposed totake 3 a day, which I confess, I don't always get. >>>>>Brandy, glad to see you post hon ;-) Make sure you have "inositolhexaniacinate" derived niacin with no artificial anything in the prep, it is"flush free". Shitake mushrooms are a source of niacin as well.Janet Thank you very much. I will definately pay attention to the type ofniacin I am getting. I already have a blushing disorder, IdiopathicCraniofacial Erythema.I wonder if that has anything to do with the extra sensitivity to niacin.OOoh and I love Shitake mushrooms!!! I am vegetarian and cook a lot ofthings with all kinds of 'shrooms! Portabellos and shitake. So maybe I getenough naturally?~BrandyFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

Gettingwell , " bollin772000

<bollin772000> " <bollin772000> wrote:

>

>

> sometimes it is simple---most or all?

> the B vitamins ,overused,can cause

> nerve damage....that is often irreversible.

>

> A fatty liver is on the verge of not being repaired...

>

> it can just do so much..

 

 

 

Dear Group,

 

Here is the views of most nutrirional experts.

 

http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_factoids.html

 

Getting to the Facts

by Abram Hoffer, MD

 

FACTS AND FACTOIDS: An Information Sheet for Patients

by Abram Hoffer MD PhD FRCP©

Fact: Something that has really occurred or is the case: hence a

datum of experience, as distinct from conclusions. Loosely defined,

something that is alleged to be, or might be a " fact. "

 

Factoid: A factoid is a fact that never existed before it appeared

in print, but has been reprinted ever since. It is truly launched if

it first appears in a reputable medical journal like the Journal of

the American Medical Association and republished in the New York

Times which gives it international stature. A factoid, using simple

Anglo Saxon terminology, is a lie, and like many lies and

misconceptions, once it has been published develops a life of its own

and is reprinted over and over, from textbook to textbook. The best

example is the lie (factoid) that vitamin C causes kidney stones.

 

There is a close and intimate relationship between these definitions

and the battle between the former vitamins-as-prevention and the

current vitamins-as-treatment paradigms. A paradigm consists of a

system of beliefs which are generally accepted by the supporters of

the paradigm, usually a majority of the scientific establishment if

we are considering medicine and science. It is a combination of facts

and factoids, but the supporters of the paradigm will support both

facts and factoids with equal fervor. Pirsig wrote, " You are never

dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is

fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They

know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically

dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of

dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas and goals are

in doubt " .

 

In most cases the facts and factoids comprising the paradigm are not

properly labeled, and factoids will be accepted as facts. The

paradigm is replaced in time by a new paradigm when enough of the

factoids present in the original paradigm are either destroyed by new

evidence or data or become facts by the accumulation of new data, new

observations. A factoid may become a fact, but a fact can never

revert to a factoid.

 

Factoids about vitamins are rampant on the internet because there is

no editorial control as there are in the journals. In journals

statements are expected to be derived from previous publications and

from data. On the internet they do not need any basis since they are

merely ideas put forward by the writers. The internet also contains

discussions of facts designed to explode the factoids. Other public

media use either facts or factoids, depending on the current public

opinion. If the opinion is positive for vitamins, facts are most

often published. If the public opinion is judged to be negative,

factoids receive easy publication.

 

Evidence Required to Establish Facts in Clinical Medicine

Clinical facts are based on clinical observations made by a

clinician who can draw careful and honest conclusions from clinical

data. These are one-to-one observations, patient and doctor. These

kind of observations have fallen into disfavor with the medical

establishment and are labeled anecdotal. These clinical trials are

basic to the whole field of medicine because no therapeutic trials

will ever be undertaken until one or more physicians find that the

treatment has some value, even even if only for a few patients.

 

The clinical observations are reinforced by special ways of

collecting the data called controlled clinical trials.

 

1) Historical controls - A number of patients are given the treatment

and the outcome of treatment over the follow-up period is compared

with the expected outcome based upon the history of that disease as

established by many observers. Thus if a disease kills every patient

and if a treatment saves half of them over the same follow-up period,

then one will conclude that the treatment had value. This is the

traditional way of running therapeutic trials. This is the least

expensive way of testing treatments but is no longer considered

scientific.

 

2) Controlled comparison therapeutic trials based on probability

theory and the need for equal samples of patients from the treatment

and the control (no treatment) group. This is similar to the first

method except that it uses current controls, not historical controls.

The decisions as to whether the patients will receive the control

treatment, i.e. no treatment, or the research treatment, is based on

random selection to remove bias.

 

3) Prospective single blind controlled therapeutic trials. With these

experiments the investigators and evaluators of the results of

treatment know whether the patients got the research treatment or the

control treatment but the patients are not told. That, of course,

does not mean that they do not know.

 

4) Prospective double blind randomized double blind therapeutic

trials. In these trials the treatment is allocated by random

selection and neither the patients nor the investigators know from

which group each patient is derived. Under my direction Psychiatric

Services Branch, Department of Public Health, Saskatchewan, conducted

the first psychiatric controlled trials of this type, completing six

between 1952 and 1960. We compared the therapeutic effect of vitamin

B-3 (niacin and niacinamide) against placebo in schizophrenic

patients. In this way I contributed to the development of a method

which is now the gold standard but which has never been calibrated,

i.e. shown to do what it is supposed to do. It is an awkward, very

costly method best suited for institutions with a lot of money and

little imagination, and meets the needs of the U.S. FDA and Health

Protection Branch in Canada, medical journals and granting agencies.

It is a treatment trial which probably is not as valuable as the

direct clinical examination which is so derided today as anecdotal.

However, fewer than one-quarter of the treatments commonly used in

medicine and surgery have been tested in this way.

 

Evidence Required to Establish Factoids in Clinical Medicine

No evidence is required. When discussing side effects and toxicity a

whole new set of variables are introduced. For establishing toxicity

no controlled trials are needed. The originators of the factoids may

develop their factoid on the basis of a theoretical examination of

the literature, or it may arise from their own bias against a

treatment. It often arises out of faulty experiments which later can

not be confirmed. Thus critics of a new treatment demand that the

proponents provide airtight facts based upon a large number of double

blind controlled experiments, but they will also attack the use of

the treatment based upon toxicity for which there is no basis. One of

the best examples of this occurred when it was concluded that folic

acid would decrease the incidence of congenital abnormalities. The

publication of this fact, which it is now, was followed by a series

of irate letters in the medical journals written by physicians who

bemoaned the fact that these tiny amounts of folic acid would be

toxic. We hear no more of this now. The factoid about toxicity has

vanished and the fact of its efficacy remains.

 

A recent example is the statement by oncologists that antioxidants

(by which they usually mean vitamin C) will decrease the therapeutic

value of chemotherapy for treating cancer. In fact there are no

clinical series which show that the patients given vitamin C and

chemotherapy fare worse than those not given this vitamin. On the

contrary, all the published series show just the opposite. I have

treated over 1130 cases with large doses of vitamin C and most of

them had chemotherapy. I have examined the follow-up data and find

that the mean difference on prolongation of life was heavily in favor

of the use of the vitamins. Recently Prasad KN et al, after reviewing

seventy-one scientific papers found no evidence that antioxidants

interfered with the therapeutic effect of chemotherapy. Even earlier

Simone CB et al, on the basis of a large number of clinical studies

(he also examined seventy-one scientific papers) came to the same

conclusion. Not one subject reported a worsening of symptoms. He

concluded, " ...cancer patients should modify their lifestyles using

the Ten Point Plan, which included modifying nutritional factors and

taking certain vitamins and minerals especially if they are receiving

chemotherapy, and/or radiation. " (The emphasis of this last part of

the sentence is mine).

 

Labriola et al concluded that vitamin C may prevent the therapeutic

effect of chemotherapy if given concurrently and recommended that

antioxidants be withheld until after the chemotherapy is completed.

He based his conclusion on one case. His report elicited three

rebuttals, Reilly, Gignac, and Lamson and Brignall. I will not repeat

the arguments but it was evident that Dr. Labriola was not convinced

by the points put forward by Reilly and Gignac. I think the factoid

repeated by Dr. Labriola would have a much better chance of becoming

a fact if he had considered the following points:

 

(1) What is the therapeutic value of chemotherapy without any

antioxidants? Even within the field of standard oncology there is a

debate whether chemotherapy has any merit except for a small number

of cancers, Moss15. Before one can claim that a treatment has been

inhibited, surely there must be pretty good evidence that the

treatment has any merit to begin with. It is possible (we do not know

the probability for this) that chemotherapy interferes with the

therapeutic value of the antioxidants. Almost all the studies testing

large doses of vitamin C yielded positive results while there is no

such unanimity with respect to chemotherapy.

 

(2) The difference between possibility and probability. Most people

do not distinguish between these two. Theoretically anything is

possible, and it is certainly possible that taking vitamin C might

prevent the toxic beneficial effect of chemotherapy. In the same way

when one buys a lottery ticket it is possible they may win. People

confuse these two terms, which is why lotteries are so popular. The

relevant statistic is the probability. What is the probability that

patients receiving vitamin C during their chemotherapy will not fare

as well? The lottery ticket may give one a probability of winning of

one in a million and the possibility that vitamin C may prevent the

therapeutic effect of chemotherapy may be equally low. We can only

assume from the literature reviewed by Simone, by Prasad, by Lamson

and Brignall, and more recently by Moss, that the real probability

must be extremely low. As I have pointed out earlier, I have seen no

evidence that adding vitamin C inhibited the therapeutic effect of

chemotherapy. Just the opposite. Patients on my orthomolecular

program live substantially longer and about 40 percent achieved over

four year cure rates.

 

(3) If he had not tried to bolster his argument by referring so

frequently to the peer reviewed journal in which his paper appeared.

This is certainly no guarantee of fact. The first factoid that

vitamin C caused kidney stones appeared in eminently peer-reviewed

journals. All the factoids regarding vitamins appeared first in peer

reviewed journals. I can assure you that articles attacking the use

of vitamins have very ready access to peer-reviewed journals. But

they would not have accepted the report had they tried to conclude

from one patient that vitamin C taken during chemotherapy was

therapeutic. This would not even be sent to the peer review committee

because they do not accept anecdotes - unless of course they consider

them scientific because they contain something adverse against

vitamins.

 

(4) Moss points out that oncologists have no objection to using

xenobiotic antioxidants during chemotherapy. This includes Amifostine

which decreases the toxicity of radiation but is too toxic on its own

and is not used; Mesna, a drug used around the world to protect

against the toxic side effects of ifosfamide which damages the

urinary system; and Cardiozane, which counters Adriamycin's toxicity.

There are over 500 papers showing the safety of Cardiozane. In one

clinical trial using a drug similar to Adriamycin one-quarter of the

patients suffered damage to their hearts. When given Cardiozane

concurrently only 7% did. Thus it appears that only orthomolecular or

natural antioxidants are potentially dangerous. Synthetic

antioxidants protect against the toxic effect of drugs but do not

increase their therapeutic value. In sharp contrast, natural

antioxidants not only protect against the toxic effect of drugs but

also increase their efficacy in destroying cancer cells.

 

(5) Dr. Labroila emphasizes that long term studies must be used. I

agree and for this reason I have followed up my patients since 1977.

In my series, hardly any patients receiving chemotherapy but no

antioxidants survived very long. But chemotherapy is used by many

oncologists who know it will not extend life because there is nothing

else that they can do and they feel they have to do something.

 

In conclusion, as the proponents of the old paradigm see it, facts

are facts only after double blind controlled experiments conducted by

the right investigators from the correct school and published in the

correct medical journals. Factoids can be thought up by anyone and

immediately become facts in the profession if the factoid attacks the

evidence against the new paradigm.

 

Current Factoids:

About Megadose Vitamin C

These factoids are based upon hypotheses. There is no clinical data

to support any of them and almost all studies show that they are not

true or real. They are not supported by any studies.

 

- causes kidney stones,

- causes kidney damage,

- causes pernicious anemia,

- decreases fertility in women,

- causes liver damage,

- causes iron overload and toxicity,

- is dangerous for diabetics by interfering with

glucose tests,

- causes cancer,

- inhibits chemotherapy,

- prevents radiation from being effective

- prevented Linus Pauling from living longer

- prevents surgical scars from healing.

 

I should have used weasel terms - instead of " causes " by

writing " may cause. " Because using the word may allows the proponent

of the factoid to leave the suggestion that these factoids are true

but leaves an escape path in case they turn out not to be true. The

author can then claim, " well I did not say that these factors were

true. I merely suggested that they might be true. " There is the usual

confusion of probability and possibility. If a phenomenon occurs once

out of a million tries the probability is one out of a million, but

there is no value attached to the possibility. It is indeed possible.

Again, the enormous sale of lottery tickets depends upon confusing

the public in this way. Or looked at in another way, if the

probability of winning a lottery is one in ten million if one buys

one ticket, and the probability is zero if one does not buy the

ticket, then one can say that dividing the ratio one in ten million

by zero yields the enormous probability of infinity that one will win

the lottery. Any number divided by zero yields infinitesimal large

values. Critics of megavitamin therapy never give any probability

values since they know they are close to zero.

 

About Megadose Niacin

The factoid niacin causes liver damage is analyzed thoroughly by

William Parsons Jr, who shows that niacin will often increase liver

function tests but that these increases do not arise from liver

pathology. Since I began using megadoses of this vitamin in 1952 I

have seen a few cases of obstructive-type jaundice which cleared when

niacin was stopped, and in one case I had to resume the use of niacin

because the patient's schizophrenia recurred. He recovered and the

jaundice did not recur. I have seen so few cases of jaundice that

there is little evidence that the jaundice arose from the use of the

niacin. Jaundice has a natural occurrence rate and from any series of

patients a few will get jaundice from other factors. In rare cases

too much niacin causes nausea and vomiting, and if this persists

because the niacin is not decreased or stopped the dehydration might

be a factor. I have seen no cases in the past fifteen years. The main

danger from taking niacin is not jaundice, it is that people will

live longer.

 

Factoids in the Making

It is very interesting, even if frustrating, to witness the

manufacture of factoids. A new one may soon be born. It is that

niacin is dangerous because it increases the plasma homocysteine

levels. Garg et al reported that niacin increased homocysteine

levels. Apparently no other B vitamins were given. After a tough

battle for acceptance the homocysteine findings are recognized as

playing a role in atherosclerotic heart disease. But the reduction in

the abnormal cholesterol levels and the increase in HDL decreases the

risk if heart disease. The Coronary Drug Study, Canner et al, showed

that over a fifteen year follow up mortality was decreased by 11% by

niacin and longevity increased by two years. In this study niacin was

used as a drug which lowered elevated cholesterol levels. No other

vitamins were used. Garg et al are aware of this. They referred to

the report by Basu et al that the niacin induced increase in

homocysteine levels did not interfere with its normalizing effect on

blood lipids. And they pose the question whether it would be

beneficial for patients on long term niacin treatment to take other B

vitamins such as folic acid. My answer is that of course it would be

beneficial, and since 1965 I have routinely given my patients one of

the B-complex formulations such as B-complex 50's or 100's. These

provide pyridoxine, folic acid and vitamin B-12 as well as other

vitamins. Adding these vitamins inevitably will be beneficial since

the other vitamins have therapeutic properties of their own in

addition to keeping homocysteine levels from going too high. But even

niacin alone was beneficial, not harmful. And this confirms what I

have seen since 1952 when Ibegan to used megadoses of niacin and

niacinamide for schizophrenia and for other conditions, including

elevated cholesterol levels and arthritis. The authors did not invent

any factoid but it is highly probable that some of the readers of

that report will ignore almost the whole report except that niacin

elevates homocysteine and therefore will increase the risk of heart

disease. You will soon see this factoid repeated endlessly.

 

Niacin is a methyl acceptor and this may be the mechanism which

leads to the elevation of homocysteine levels. Niacinamide is also a

methyl acceptor but it has no effect on blood lipid levels. Its

effect on homocysteine levels is not known but there is no evidence

that it reduces life expectancy. On the contrary, it has great value

in the treatment of senile states, both physical and mental, and in

my series, if anything, tended to prolong life.

 

Kaufman had studied the use of this vitamin for the arthritides

before 1950 and had published two books describing his remarkable

results. Since that time this vitamin has been a very important

component of the orthomolecular regimen for treating arthritis. Dr

William Kaufman, my long term friend, died a few days ago (August

2000) at age 89. His very important work remains mostly ignored even

after a double blind study showed him to be correct.

 

But Garg's report does raise very interesting questions which will

have to be studied. The first is whether the elevation of

homocysteine is an important factor but only in subjects who are not

taking adequate levels of the other B vitamins, i.e. are not well

nourished in orthomolecular terms. It is possible that in the

presence of good nutrition the increase in homocysteine levels is not

pathological at all and may even be beneficial.

 

Another potential factoid was trumped up by the press and received

wide attention in all the media. The press reported that Dr. James

Dwyer, University of San Diego Medical School, had found that the

carotid arterial walls had been thickened by 500 milligrams of

vitamin C daily. The press report cautioned against the use of

vitamin C because this showed that the arteries were depositing

plaque. But Professor Dwyer told Owen R. Fonorow they had used only

one measure and had not used two other measures which would have

shown the degree of focal plaque called the plaque index, nor the

velocity ratio to determine whether or not plaque interfered with

blood flow. He did not say that plaque had developed. Dr. Robert

Cathcart with experience on over 25,000 patients since 1969 has seen

no cases of heart disease developing in patients who did not have any

when first seen. He added that the thickening of the vessel walls, if

true, indicates that the thinning that occurs with age is reversed. I

have used vitamin C in megadoses since 1952 and have not seen any

cases of heart disease develop even after decades of use.

 

Recently Gokce, Keaney, Frei et al gave patients either a single

dose of 2000 milligrams of vitamin C and 500 milligrams daily for

thirty days and measured blood flow through the arteries. Blood flow

increased nearly fifty percent after the single dose and this was

sustained after the monthly treatment. They concluded that ascorbic

acid treatment may benefit patients with coronary artery disease.

This certainly effectively does not support the conclusion of Dwyer

who did not measure blood flow.

 

The Good News

The opposite of a factoid is a fact. The good news is that as none

of these factoids are true, the opposite is true. This summary

statement is based upon literally thousands of published papers in

medical literature and hundreds of books that have been published in

the past twenty years. I can not provide references to these numerous

clinical studies, but readers of the Journal of Orthomolecular

Medicine have ready access to the facts and also to the book reviews

of over one hundred of these books. The internet contains a large

number of excellent discussions of vitamins and, of course, the facts

and factoids which are current.

 

Vitamin C Alleged Toxicity Factoid (Lies) Fact

Kidney Stones Decreases frequency

Kidney Damage No

Pernicious anemia Yes No

Fertility Impaired No

Liver damage Yes No

Iron overload Theoretical No clinical evidence

Glucose blood tests Interferes Not with modern tests

Cancer Causes cancer Therapeutic for cancer

Atherosclerosis Increases Prevents

Chemotherapy Decreases efficacy Increases efficacy

Radiation Decreases effect More effective

Surgery Prevents healing Increases healing rate and decreases

scaring

Linus Pauling Shortened his life A ridiculous claim. He died age 94,

fully mentally alert.

 

 

Conclusion

The factoids about vitamins, used in optimum doses when needed, are

not true, are not based upon clinical evidence, do not have any

studies including double blind controlled clinical data to support

them, and are used primarily to attack the new paradigm, the vitamins-

as-treatment paradigm. Be wary of factoids whether they are in print,

on the internet, in the news media, on radio or on television. If you

hear of any new factoids, please let me know so I can add to my

collection.

 

The unfortunate result of these lies is that patients are made

fearful, some will stop taking their vitamins, medical costs will

increases since patients want to see their doctor again to discuss

these matters, and more patients will relapse. The harm done by these

factoids is immeasurable, but fortunately is slowly decreasing as the

population becomes more knowledgeable and sophisticated about

nutrition and nutrients. In the same way that drug companies are not

allowed to make false therapeutic claims about their products, we

need a system which will neutralize the factoids as they are

proposed. And above all we need the public media to become much more

intelligent and less subservient to major papers like the New York

Times.

 

REFERENCES

1. The Oxford International Dictionary of the English Language.

Unabridged. Leland Publishing Company LTD, Toronto, 1957.

 

2. Mailer Norman: New York Times, January 9, 2000.

 

3. Pirsig R: Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance. Quoted in

Globe and Mail, Toronto, June 16, 2000, in Social Studies by M.

Kesterton.

 

4. Hoffer A: A theoretical examination of double-blind design. Can

Med Ass J 97:123-127, 1967.

 

5. Hoffer A & Pauling L: Hardin Jones biostatistical analysis of

mortality data for cohorts of cancer patients with a large fraction

surviving at the termination of the study and a comparison of

survival times of cancer patients receiving large regular oral doses

of vitamin C and other nutrients with similar patients not receiving

those doses. J Orthomolecular Medicine 5:143-154, 1990. Reprinted in,

Cancer and Vitamin C, E. Cameron and L. Pauling, Camino Books, Inc.

P.O. Box 59026, Phil. PA, 19102, 1993.

 

6. Hoffer A & Pauling L: Hardin Jones biostatistical analysis of

mortality data for a second set of cohorts of cancer patients with a

large fraction surviving at the termination of the study and a

comparison of survival times of cancer patients receiving large

regular oral doses of vitamin C and other nutrients with similar

patients not receiving these doses. J of Orthomolecular Medicine,

8:157-167,1993.

 

7. Hoffer A: Orthomolecular Oncology. In, Adjuvant Nutrition in

Cancer Treatment, Ed. P Quillin & RM Williams. 1992 Symposium

Proceedings, Sponsored by Cancer Treatment Research Foundation and

American College of Nutrition. Cancer Treatment Research Foundation,

3455 Salt Creek Lane, Suite 200, Arlington Heights, IL 60005-1090,

331-362, 1994.

 

8. Hoffer A: One Patient's Recovery From Lymphoma. Townsend Letter

for Doctors and Patients #160, 50-51, 1996.

 

9. Prasad KN, Kumar A, Kochupillai V & Cole WC. High Doses of

Multiple Antioxidant Vitamins: Essential Ingredients in Improving the

Efficacy of Standard Cancer Therapy. Journal American College of

Nutrition, 18:13-25, 1999.

 

10. Simone CB, Simone NL & Simone CB: Nutrients and Cancer Treatment.

International Journal of Integrative Medicine 1:20-24, 1999.

 

11. Labriola D & Livingston R: Possible Interactions Between Dietary

Antioxidants and Chemotherapy. Oncology 13:1003-1008, 1999, and

Editorial to Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, November 1999.

 

12. Reilly P: Dr. Labriola's Editorial on Antioxidants and

Chemotherapy, Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients Feb/Mar 2000,

90-91.

 

13. Gignac MA: Antioxidants and Chemotherapy. What You Need to Know

Before Following Dr. Labriola's Advice. Townsend Letter for Doctors

and Patients Feb/March 2000, 88-89.

 

14. Lamson DW & Brignall MS: Antioxidants and Cancer Therapy II:

Quick Reference Guide. Alternative Medicine Review, 5:152-163, 2000.

 

15. Moss RW: Questioning Chemotherapy. Equinox Press, Brooklyn, New

York.

 

16. Moss RW: Antioxidants Against Cancer. Equinox Presss Inc.

Brooklyn NY, 2000.

 

17. Hoffer A: Vitamin C and Cancer. Quarry Press, Kingston ON, 2000.

 

18. Herbert V, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, National TV News.

Shortly after Dr Pauling died. He also said that if God wanted us to

take vitamin C tablets they would be growing on trees.

 

19. Parsons WB Jr: Cholesterol Control Without Diet: The Niacin

Solution. Lilac Press, Scotsdale, Arizona 1998. Reviewed in Journal

of Orthomolecular Medicine, Volume 14, 1999, 3rd quarter.

 

20. Garg R, Malinow MR, Pettinger M, Upson B & Hunninghake D: Niacin

Treatment Increases Plasma Homocysteine. Am Heart Journal, 138:1082-

1087, 1999.

 

21. Canner PL, Berge KG, Wenger NK, Stamler J, Friedman L, Prineas RJ

& Friedewald W: Fifteen year mortality in coronary drug project

patients: Long term benefit with niacin. J. Amer College of

Cardiology 8:1245-1255, 1986.

 

22. Basu TK & Mann S: Vitamin B-6 Normalizes the Altered Sulfur Acid

Status of Rats Fed Diets Containing Pharmacological Levels of Niacin

Without Reducing Niacin's Hypolipidemic

Effects. J Nutrition 127:117-121, 1997.

 

23. Kaufman W: Common Forms of Niacinamide Deficiency Disease:

Aniacin Amidosis. Yale University Press, New Haven CT, 1943.

 

24. Kaufman W: The Common Form of Joint Dysfunction: Its Incidence

and Treatment. E.L. Hildreth and Co. Brattelboro, VT, 1949.

 

25. Hoffer A: Orthomolecular Medicine For Physicians, Keats

Publishing, New Canaan CT, 1989.

 

26 Fonorow, O.R. www.vitamin C foundation.org

 

27. Cathart, R. Report to Fonorow www. vitaminCfoundat ion. org

 

27. Gokce N, Keaney JF Jr, Frei B et al: Long-term ascorbic acid

administration reverses endothelial vasomotor dysfunction in patients

with coronary artery disease. Circulation 99:3234-3240, 1999.

 

28. Herbert. V. Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, National TV News.

Shortly after Dr Pauling died. He also said that if God wanted us to

take vitamin C tablets they would be growing on trees.

 

A. Hoffer MD, PhD, FRCP©

August 29, 2000

Reprinted with permission of the author.

[Guest guest]

Gettingwell , " bollin772000

<bollin772000> " <bollin772000> wrote:

>

>

> sometimes it is simple---most or all?

> the B vitamins ,overused,can cause

> nerve damage....that is often irreversible.

>

> A fatty liver is on the verge of not being repaired...

>

> it can just do so much..

 

 

Repost of a previous message:

 

Frank <califpacific

Sat Jan 18, 2003 8:09 am

B-Vitamins

 

 

B-Vitamins

 

http://www.doctoryourself.com/bvitamins.html

 

B-INFORMED ABOUT B-VITAMINS

 

The safety record of the B-complex vitamins is extraordinarily good.

Since

their discovery, beginning with thiamine (B-1) in 1911, many

thousands of

studies have verified an unequaled therapeutic value of these

essential

substances. Side effects have been rare, and toxicity is nearly

nonexistent,

even at the highest doses. Some cautions are in order, of course, and

here are

some of the most important.

Vitamin B-6 (pyridoxine) has been reported to cause temporary

neurological

symptoms such as heaviness, tingling or numbness of the limbs in

persons taking

very large doses. It is very important to realize that such cases are

not

common, and when they do occur usually result from huge doses of

pyridoxine

TAKEN ALONE. The B-vitamins are a team, and work best as a team.

Upsetting

the balance by taking a lot of just one is like devoting all your

baseball

practice time to your pitcher. You might get a lot of strikeouts, but

if

anybody hits one, you are in trouble. No one player has ever won a

World

Series by himself, and no single B-vitamin can do the job that the

whole " team "

can do.

B-6 by itself in doses of 2,000 to 6,000 milligrams daily (that's one

thousand

to three thousand times the US RDA!) can produce side effects and is

therefore

way too much to take. Very, very few persons report symptoms on 1,000

mg

daily, and only the rarest reports go any lower. When taken with, or

as part

of, a complete B-complex supplement, B-6 side effects other than a

harmless

deeper-colored urine are virtually unknown.

Premenstrual tension symptoms often improve dramatically with only a

few

hundred mg/day of extra B-6. There is no need to " push the envelope "

and take

thousands of milligrams when hundreds will do. At least 50 to 100 mg

of

supplemental B-6 daily is a virtual necessity for women taking oral

contraceptives. The " pill " causes some abnormal physiological changes

that

create a deficiency of B-6, as well as lower serum levels of thiamine

(B-1),

and riboflavin (B-2), and niacin (B-3), and folic acid, and B-12, and

vitamin

C! (Wynn, V. Lancet, March 8, 1975)

Laboratory animals receiving the human B-6 dose equivalent of just 75

mg daily

do not get strokes, even when fed a lousy diet (Atherosclerosis, vol.

22, 1975,

pp 125-127) Since women on oral contraceptives are three times more

likely at

any age to have a stroke, there is an important lesson here. B-6

deficiency

produces hardening of the arteries (Rinehart and Greenberg, American

Journal of

Pathology, vol. 25, 1949, pp 481-496.) Furthermore, B-6 is necessary

in order

for your body to produce lecithin. Lecithin, a lipid- transporting

substance

from soy, has been used clinically to clear out fatty livers... and

even

clogged arteries. Another connection.

Niacin (vitamin B-3) has been used in doses up to tens of thousands of

milligrams per day for over 40 years by psychiatrists. It is an

effective

alternative treatment for severe depression, psychotic behavior, and

schizophrenia. Most physicians have ignored niacin's usefulness until

rather

recently. Niacin has finally gained popularity as one of the cheapest

ways to

lower serum cholesterol. Changes in liver function tests have been

reported in

persons taking one to five thousand milligrams daily of niacin BY

ITSELF.

Three important points have generally gone unnoticed:

1. Niacin is much better tolerated when given with Vitamin C. Abram

Hoffer,

M.D. pioneered high dose niacin therapy back in the 1950's. He

repeatedly

published his observations that gram-sized doses of vitamin C greatly

improve a

patient's niacin tolerance. Dr. Hoffer recommended at least as much

vitamin

C per dose as niacin. With three thousand milligrams of niacin per

day, then,

one would need a MINIMUM of three thousand milligrams of vitamin C.

The

medical profession's unfounded resistance to large doses of vitamin C

is

embarrassingly well known. It is useless to blame niacin for side

effects

caused by ignoring expert medical advice on how to use it correctly

along with

vitamin C.

Vincent Zannoni at the University of Michigan Medical School has

shown that

vitamin C protects the liver itself. Even doses as low as 500

milligrams daily

helped prevent fatty buildup and cirrhosis. 5,000 mg of vitamin C per

day

appears to actually flush fats from the liver. (Ritter, M. " Study

Says Vitamin

C Could Cut Liver Damage, " Associated Press, October 11, 1986) F. R.

Klenner,

M.D. showed that very large doses of vitamin C (between 500 to 900 mg

per

kilogram body weight per day) can cure hepatitis in two to four days

(Smith, L.

H., ed. Clinical Guide To The Use Of VitaminC, Life Science Press,

Tacoma

Washington, 1988, pp 22-23).

2. Niacin is also one of the team of B-vitamins and needs any massive

intake

to be at least partly balanced with the rest of the B-complex, just

like B-6

mentioned above. Would you pay for a tune up for your car and change

only one

spark plug? If you have several kids, would you feed only one? Would

you pay

for cable TV if there were only one channel? Taking only one B-

vitamin is

neither logical nor efficient. So avoid doing it unless there is a

good

reason.

3. Many, perhaps most, persons showing changes in their liver

function tests

upon ingestion of large amounts of niacin have been using alcohol.

Accurate

information about sizable alcohol consumption is very difficult to

get from a

patient: the more they use, the less they'll tell. Two thirds of all

American adults drink alcohol, averaging out to be about three drinks

per day,

seven days a week, 52 weeks a year. If you do not drink that much,

then

somebody out there is drinking MORE.

Alcohol does nothing if it doesn't hurt the liver. The French have the

highest per capita consumption of alcohol in the world. They also

have the

world's highest percentage of deaths from cirrhosis of the liver.

Working

hard, the human liver can detoxify about one drink every two hours.

Know

anyone who drinks at a faster rate than that? Then marvel that they

have a

liver that functions at all. Alcohol is a drug, and consumption and

abuse is

more widespread and more serious than most persons imagine. Over two

thirds

of all hospital admissions of the elderly are alcohol related. (New

York

State Office of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services, Oasas Today,

1:1,

Sept-Oct. 1992)

The liver undergoes profound changes in both its endoplasmic reticula

and

its microsomal enzymes in order to detoxify alcohol. The unbalanced

introduction of very large doses of niacin to an overloaded liver may

well

overtax an alcohol-strained system. This is likely where some changes

in

liver function tests come from (American Journal of Medicine, vol 86,

April,

1989, page 431 and vol. 87, August 1989, page 248; American Journal of

Cardiology, vol. 64, October 1, 1989 page 728).

4. Any hepatotoxic effects of niacin are almost invariably associated

with the

sustained release form (Journal of the American Medical Association,

March 2,

1994). Sustained release niacin generally enables higher doses with

less

" flushing. " However, that warm sensation called flushing indicates

niacin

saturation. Sustained release delivery may therefore be hiding this

sign that

the body has had enough niacin at a given time.

5. Simply reducing the dosage reduces side effects. (Naito,

H. " Reducing

Cardiac Deaths with Hypolipidemic Drugs, " Postgraduate Medicine, vol

82, no.

6, November 1987; Figge, H. L. et al: " Nicotinic Acid: A Review of

its Clinical

Use in the Treatment of Lipid Disorders, " Pharmacotherapy, Vol. 8,

no. 5, 1988)

Since the regular " immediate release " form of niacin also is

effective in

lowering total cholesterol and actually improves beneficial HDL

levels, why not

just use the plain tablets? Take less, but more often, and you

approximate the

idea of a sustained release tablet, but with a lower dose. If there

is a

flush, reduce the dose. The idea is to be comfortable. It is better

to be

able to use less of the vitamin for a long time than to use a lot,

have

trouble, and quit. American physicians often over prescribe anyway,

and niacin

is no exception.

Niacin is not a magic cholesterol bullet, nor is cholesterol the only

factor in

heart disease. Niacin is PART of the picture, part of the B-vitamin

team, and

part of a total health program. Granted, niacin is indeed important.

This is

shown by even our inadequate US RDA, which recommends many times more

niacin

than any other B-vitamin. However, persons truly seeking to lower

their

cholesterol need to eat more fiber, more vegetables (especially

carrots), more

vitamins E and C, and to exercise more. They also need to eat less

sugar, less

fat, less meat, and reduce stress. There are ZERO harmful effects (and

countless side BENEFITS) in taking these steps.

People who do not want to change their diet and do not want to change

their

lifestyle ask doctors for a pill instead. There is no such thing as

monotherapy for cardiovascular disease. If there was, we'd all use it

and be

saving literally a million lives each year. Is it really that big a

surprise

that niacin alone isn't enough to do the job right?

 

REFERENCES:

Alcohol:

Ray, O. and Ksir, C. Drugs, Society and Human Behavior, chapter 9.

Mosby, 1990

(I'm sure most of the great book titles are already taken, so don't

be fooled

by this one. This is an excellent book: clear, fact-filled and well

written.

Highly recommended.)

Williams, R. J. Nutrition and Alcoholism (1951) and Alcoholism: The

Nutritional

Approach (1959) may be out of print but are worth the search.

Therapeutic Uses of the B-Vitamins:

Bicknell and Prescott, The Vitamins in Medicine, 3rd ed., 1953 (This

out-of-print work stands as the definitive summary of most all

vitamin research

up to the date of its publication. There are many thousands of

references

here.)

Cheraskin, et al: Psychodietetics, Bantam Books, 1974 (A deservedly

popular

book, loaded with references.)

Hoffer, A. and Walker, M. Orthomolecular Nutrition, Keats, 1978

( " Orthomolecular " essentially means " megavitamin. " Good introductory

work.)

Pauling, L. How To Live Longer and Feel Better, Freeman, 1986. (Still

the best

single health book ever written. Here is a good place to begin you

investigation of vitamin therapeutics.)

Psychiatric Utility of Niacin:

Hawkins, D. and Pauling, L. Orthomolecular Psychiatry, Freeman, 1973

(Here, in

one big volume, is more information than most doctors ever want to

admit exists

on using niacin, especially in treating depression and psychoses.)

Hoffer, Abram Niacin Therapy in Psychiatry, Charles Thomas, 1962

(This is what

started it all; note the publishing date. Nobody knows niacin like Dr.

Hoffer.)

Hoffer, A. and Osmond, H. The Chemical Basis of Clinical Psychiatry,

Charles

Thomas,Springfield, Ill. (Even more in depth study of the

biochemistry and

uses of niacin.)

Remember to try your library's Interlibrary Loan service to obtain

out-of-print

works.

Copyright C 1999 and prior years Andrew W. Saul. From the books QUACK

DOCTOR

and PAPERBACK CLINIC, available from Dr. Andrew Saul, Number 8 Van

Buren

Street, Holley, New York 14470.

[Guest guest]

Gettingwell , " bollin772000

<bollin772000> " <bollin772000> wrote:

>

>

> sometimes it is simple---most or all?

> the B vitamins ,overused,can cause

> nerve damage....that is often irreversible.

>

> A fatty liver is on the verge of not being repaired...

>

> it can just do so much..

 

 

I am shocked that someone could post something like this.

 

If the above statement were true there would have been a severe

clampdown on B vitamins many, many years ago.

 

They are recognized as so safe and the basic studies were done so

many years ago, that there is little controversy today as to the

safety of B viamins. It is pretty much taken for granted.

 

FRom all the studies that I have read, the real danger for the

average person is they are usually not getting enough B vitamins.

 

Frank

 

Here is a comment by Dr. Cathcart.

 

http://www.orthomed.com/

The other thing is the comment that B6 can be dangerous. Yes, it can

cause numbness and tingling, even finally a temporary paralysis but

this is really not due to a B6 toxicity; it is an induced deficiency

of other B vitamins causing beriberi or pellagra. Anyone in

orthomolecular medicine knows that you never give large doses of B6

without moderate doses of the other B vitamins. If non-

orthomolecular M.D.s would stop cutting vitamins, they might learn

how to use them

[Guest guest]

Yes, there is TREMENDOUS benefit in niacin, but little in

niacinamide! Niacin truly DOES open the capillaries, and is

especially beneficial to smokers, whose capillaries grow more

constricted the longer they smoke. It also helps those with other

circulatory problems.

 

I can also attest to what it can do for the SKIN - it really improves

complexions!

 

Niacin has proven to be a miracle worker to many people with heart or

circulatory problems, as well as some folks with varicose veins or

hemorrhoids, all of which pretty much stem from the same problems.

 

My FAVORITE use for it, though, is to combat panic and anxiety

attacks. It's been used for about 30 or 40 years this way in very

large amounts. I was totally incapacitated by these attacks about 23

years ago and they were destroying my life. My sister, who has her

Masters in Social Work and does a lot of therapy, found a book by

Carl Pfeiffer called " Mental and Elemental Nutrients " . It was

incredible! People just don't have a CLUE how important nutrition is

to the proper functioning of our brains.

 

I have since found a far easier formula to take called BeCALM'd - it

has a patented combination of amino acids and a few choice vitamins.

It was originally developed and used in drug and alcohol rehab

clinics before being made available to the general public. I've seen

miraculous results with children who have been diagnosed with ADD or

ADHD, too, but it has a higher effectiveness with adults and their

panic and anxiety attacks. Also helps a lot with depression.

 

I have this available on special order. It's a life saving product,

IMHO, and I would not be without it. I don't need it all the time,

but when I can feel things getting a little " tense " , well, it comes

to the rescue every time.

 

Linda

[Guest guest]

What worked for me:

I had a cholesterol reading of 310. I was told I had to take some

cholesterol lowering drugs. I hate those system destroying pharmaceuticals

so always try to avoid taking them; I asked about alternatives and told him

I would consider the drugs next month. I had read about niacin, and was

concerned about the side effects as well. I read more and more about this. I

started eating primarily vegetables with a small amount of meat- more often

as a spice. I began taking 500 mg Niacin three times a day. I still remember

my reaction to the first " flush: " I thought I had suffered some horrible

side effect that was going to be my undoing. But I toughed it through for

about 15 minutes and the flush went away. I continued taking the Niacin

following the same dosage for six weeks and returned to the doctor. I ate

oatmeal and grapefruit often, and acquired a love for a clove of garlic a

day. And I drank lots of tea. I asked him to take blood again to check both

my liver functions and my cholesterol. He did. My liver was fine. My

cholesterol was 167.

That has been the case- about 167- for many years now. I do not always take

niacin; nor in that high of a dose. But as little as 200 mg a day seem to

obtain for me the same results still.

I donate blood as well; which is my version of letting. That helps to lower

some of the toxins I believe.

 

Michael

 

Oh: And what convinced me was the cost benefit analysis I did in my mind:

Niacin costs me about 3 bucks a month; and I don't need a prescription for

it. It makes me feel warm or hot for about 15 minutes sometimes.

Am not sure but I believe those pharmaceutical alternatives are considerably

more costly; and many times less effective based on the folks I have know

who are taking them. and their side effects are far more dangerous.

[Guest guest]

Do you know if the no-flush Niacin (Niacinamide) has the same

positive effect? I used to *love* the Niacin flush & would take 1500 mg

before I worked out on my Bowflex. But then I was told by my doc that

Niacin was negatively impacting my blood sugars (I am a diabetic). So I

switched over to Niacinamide.

 

Alobar

 

 

-

" Michael " <mwood

 

Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:32 PM

RE: niacin

 

 

> What worked for me:

> I had a cholesterol reading of 310. I was told I had to take some

> cholesterol lowering drugs. I hate those system destroying pharmaceuticals

> so always try to avoid taking them; I asked about alternatives and told

> him

> I would consider the drugs next month. I had read about niacin, and was

> concerned about the side effects as well. I read more and more about this.

> I

> started eating primarily vegetables with a small amount of meat- more

> often

> as a spice. I began taking 500 mg Niacin three times a day. I still

> remember

> my reaction to the first " flush: " I thought I had suffered some horrible

> side effect that was going to be my undoing. But I toughed it through for

> about 15 minutes and the flush went away.

[Guest guest]

You can multiple smaller doses of niacin during a 24 hour period and

have little or no flushing.

 

Most nutrients should be taken in multiple smaller doses anyway over

the course of the day. That way the body can absorb them and particularly with B

vitamins so as to not overload the system all at once and to urinate them out.

That is the way that nature intented.

 

Frank

 

 

 

>

>

> -

> " Michael " <mwood@g...>

>

> Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:32 PM

> RE: niacin

>

>

> > What worked for me:

> > I had a cholesterol reading of 310. I was told I had to take some

> > cholesterol lowering drugs. I hate those system destroying

pharmaceuticals

> > so always try to avoid taking them; I asked about alternatives and

told

> > him

> > I would consider the drugs next month. I had read about niacin,

and was

> > concerned about the side effects as well. I read more and more

about this.

> > I

> > started eating primarily vegetables with a small amount of meat- more

> > often

> > as a spice. I began taking 500 mg Niacin three times a day. I still

> > remember

> > my reaction to the first " flush: " I thought I had suffered some

horrible

> > side effect that was going to be my undoing. But I toughed it

through for

> > about 15 minutes and the flush went away.