intro, and kefir/kimchee question

[Guest guest]

Hello,

My name is Erin, I am new here and this is my first post. I am so glad to have

found this group! I have been learning about and practicing Ayurveda (in my

personal life) on and off for a few years now. I live in New Mexico and have had

the privilege of going to the Ayurvedic Institute in Albuquerque for

consultations through the years. I am also a midwife, and do incorporate basic

Ayurvedic principles into my practice.

 

Currently, my son who is 20 months old, has been having eczema/GI issues for the

past 5 months, roughly 3 months after he began to regularly eat solid foods.

We've taken a somewhat mixed approach to dealing with it, ranging from

elimination diets to allergy testing.

 

At this point we have identified a number of suspected " triggers " that we have

eliminated from his diet, and are essentially doing a pitta and kapha

pacifying diet as he is PK, and was recently diagnosed with a pitta pushing

kapha imbalance.

 

I have done so much research on food intolerances, detox pathways, and gut

healing in my efforts to solve his condition. While he has shown some

improvement after eliminating gluten and some other pitta aggrivating foods, he

still has flare ups.

 

My goal is to strengthen his system---his digestion and his gut flora so that we

can get to a point where his body can process these foods more effectively. I

had hoped to start him on kefir and kimchee (and possibly kombucha), as I prefer

to recolonize his gut with beneficial bacteria and probiotics from food rather

than suppements alone, and my understanding is that kefir is far superior to

yogurt in this regard. We had been doing goat yogurt (store bought) for some

time prior to eliminating all dairy a few months ago (goat yogurt was his main

source of dairy anyway.

 

Our Ayurvedic doc cautioned against introducing these foods as part of our

healing regimine, because they may agrivate Pitta, and are egenrally not

favored, so my plan was a bit blown out of the water! I understand that

fermented foods are not highly valued in Ayurveda and are believed to be toxic

when consumed regularly. I am hoping someone can explain to me the mechanics of

this, ie. exactly how and why are fermented foods toxic?

 

I intuitively feel that recolonizing his intestinal flora and strengthening his

gut will help heal him, and I am saddened that my plan opposes conventional

Ayuvedic wisdom.

 

I would appreciate any insights into this issue! And I look forward to learning

much here, and getting to know you all.

 

Warmly,

Erin

[Guest guest]

Erin, I am pitta-vata and stay off of fermented foods mostly. Since there is

pitta (heat) I suspect it is because fermented foods are connected to damp heat

which can be a problem. There is a lot about this in Chinese medicine. Also, it

is a sour food (not good for pitta). I had to change my thinking about how good

yogurt was for your stomach.

Just my thoughts--I am not an expert.

 

Katy

[Guest guest]

why so much confusion? just give pomegranate juice to improve digestion and a

small pinch of pomegranate fruit bark(skin) ground to paste mixed with yogurt to

stop frequent stools. Try pancha dikthaka kashayam one spoon in morning to

eliminate eczema 

or try any liver tonic will help. eat any thing else nothing happens.

 

R.vidhyasagar.

 

_______________________

 

Currently, my son who is 20 months old, has been having eczema/GI issues for the

past 5 months, roughly 3 months after he began to regularly eat solid foods.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Katy.

So fermented foods are thought to create damp heat---is this an Ayurvedic

perspective or TCM? I respect both, just trying to get to the bottom of why, and

the mechanism behind which Ayurveda believes that fermented foods are toxic.

Thanks again!

 

 

___

 

I suspect it is because fermented foods are connected to damp heat which can be

a problem. Also, it is a sour food (not good for pitta). I had to change my

thinking about how good yogurt was for your stomach.

[Guest guest]

> just give pomegranate juice to improve digestion and a small pinch >of

pomegranate fruit bark(skin) ground to paste mixed with yogurt to >stop frequent

stools.

 

Thank you, now I am the one who is confused! Frequent stools aren't a problem

though--is this what you are suggesting the pomegranate for? And I thought

yogurt agravates Pitta?

 

>Try pancha dikthaka kashayam one spoon in morning to eliminate >eczema or try

any liver tonic will help.

 

He is on an herbal now that is prescribed by his Ayurvedic doctor.

Does this herb have a western counterpart, or name?

 

 

>eat any thing else nothing happens.

 

I'm sorry, do you mean that by doing any of the above he should be able to eat

any food without gettting eczema?

 

Thank you for you help!

Warmly

Erin

[Guest guest]

Hi Erin -

 

Astrology for the weekend guides us to " protect the women in your life " -

Hopefully this extra discussion is in that direction. Did you see my response

to your question?

http://health.ayurveda/message/2214

 

Pomegranate juice (dilute with water and if it is still chilly there I think, I

might even warm with added pinch clove in apple juice if you have it, for the

baby and the vata component if gassy, painful spasming or bloated). Pomegranate

is pitta and kapha reducing and enhances digestion. India is mostly in hot

season now, though NM if you are in Albuquerque - is still cooler and the vata

is always involved with gas or bloating or constipation. Diarrhea is pitta

involvement.

 

Digestion has steps in stomach, colon, liver, and for creation of each tissue

type from the nutritive chyle - so the role of probiotics though important, is

more about colon comfort/function solamente. Again, check into the food

combining and freshness factors as well as the suggested seasoning and oiling

and warmth for comfort in GI tract to also help reduce all or at least much of

any gas/bloating discomfort. Yoghurt or kefir alone, sour or fresh, won't cover

many possible causes.

 

> Thank you, now I am the one who is confused! Frequent stools aren't a problem

though--is this what you are suggesting the pomegranate for?

 

I also had misread that loose stool was at issue, which often goes with high

pitta. Pomegranite skin is very good for diarrhea.

 

And I thought yogurt agravates Pitta?

 

Small amounts, no big deal ERin. It is about balance, and some good choice to

direct the herbs to location (colon). Best fresh, better kefir as you know, and

as several have suggested.

>

> >Try pancha dikthaka kashayam one spoon in morning to eliminate >eczema or try

any liver tonic will help.

 

> He is on an herbal now that is prescribed by his Ayurvedic doctor.

> Does this herb have a western counterpart, or name?

 

Im sure what you were given is very supportive - they are very careful at the AI

- only sometimes a bit much so (they are too much under regulatory scrutiny to

sometimes do the most direct thing). Note the vaidya's suggestion to support

liver function and reduce pitta. Bitter tonics bring down pitta in the blood

and help liver that way. Go easy on egg, tomato and dark leafy greens - some

foods increase pitta like that and may not show up as " allergens " .

 

> >eat any thing else nothing happens.

>

> I'm sorry, do you mean that by doing any of the above he should be able to eat

any food without gettting eczema?

 

Perhaps some practitioners are not aware of 1) the extremes created by western

diet and lifestyle, even when attempting to do it right our guidance is often

partial and can create problems 2) the intensity of sincere focus and enquiry

among alternative western health care circles, 3) the layers and often,

frustrations we go through to rediscover what may be very simple to experienced

Ayurvedists 4) the pitta dominant culture in the west, whereas I've heard that

India is more Vata-Kapha or K-V dominant as a " treatment group " if you

understand my drift. Perhaps some didn't notice you are not only midwife (a

particularly passionate profession) but have studied some Ayurveda also and are

imbued with nature to understand more and more. Me too.

 

I don't believe the black and white statement is a guarantee. You and I know it

is possible, especially with pizza, antibiotics and whatever other western

habits to bring back the cause level, to say nothing of possible " hereditary " (I

use perens knowing these things can be changed, and are often not really).

 

It's notable that many dear vaidyas in their inimitable? cultural style, explain

less and speak more like an encouraging mother. In fact my son traveling in

India the last 6 months could not find a vaidya in his area, and when given one

didin't trust as no one would take the time to explain anything to him. Of

course, he wasn't understanding not only the cultural style and respecting the

time it takes to do that - these people had no idea his background already in

some Ayurvedic basics and desire to know more.

 

Anyway, we are very fortunate to have this forum where so much is shared!

 

Warm Regards,

Ysha

Postpartum AyurDoula

www.sacredwindow.com

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to revisit this fermented foods and pitta question.

Some fermented foods can still be good for reducing pitta -

buttermilk for example is cooling and i find that fresh home made 12

hour yoghurt can be sweet and cooling and helpful in reducing pitta

conditions especially with some cooling herbs added in. It also

depends on the foods that one is fermenting- bitter vegetables for

example, even if fermented, can help to reduce pitta- pickled bitter

gourd for example. how the food is fermented also can make a

difference. Using vinegar would be more souring than using salt to

ferment the food for example. And some recipes can adjust the salt

level down so that one gets 'half sour' pickled veggies.

 

Also some pitta conditions like Gerd may also have a motility

(vata) or congestion (kapha) component and may benefit from

fermented foods with probiotic effect. Also sour foods can be

helpful in restoring digestion after an acute inflammation. So it

really depends on the condition, qualities that are involved, the

stage of the condition, the type of food being fermented, the

process and length of time of fermentation, etc.

 

So much to think about but life is dynamic and it's fun to experiment

with all these stages and keep an open mind to foods and food prep

that works for you!

 

best,

lawren pulse

 

___________

So fermented foods are thought to create damp heat---is this an

Ayurvedic perspective or TCM? I respect both, just trying to get

to the bottom of why, and the mechanism behind which Ayurveda

believes that fermented foods are toxic. Thanks again!

[Guest guest]

yes, i think fermenting doughs made from grains and legumes is the way

to go, Most cultures used some sort of method like this and it turns

out there was some great wisdom in it. By fermenting or adding an

acidifying medium, the anti-nutrients ( phytic acids, etc) are

neutralized and the grain somewhat predigested allowing for better

assimilation of nutrients.

 

We used to ferment doughs in this country with natural starters and

now we use laboratory yeast which greatly speeds the process of making

bread but i believe causes problems withe digestion including upset to

the flora of the gut by not having this important fermentation step.

 

 

________________

 

I was wondering , what about idlis or dosas they are suposed to be

healthy as well. The afghans use naans as staple rotis. what about

that. that is made of maida as well apart from being fermented.