preservatives

December 11, 2004

Thanks for that Butch... I've been researching alternatives.

I wonder if Red Shiso would work?

I have to take issue with the cavalier attitude here, though:

>Maybe .. but so does drinking water .. and the air we breath .. and most

>of the food we eat ..

Sure, our water and air are both polluted, and the former is usually

chemically processed in most areas. This is NOT a good thing! It

certainly doesn't make using even more chemicals ok (Tu Quoque

fallacy).

City water... get rid of it. I can't urge people enough to put

filters on their faucets AND their shower heads. It's always got

something in it, even if it's just a rust inhibitor. Maybe you want

to drink rust inhibitor... none for me, thanks.

> > However, we use such a low dosage that these harmful chemicals should

> > not present a problem for most people.

Three words: Multiple Chemical Sensitivity

>And it's a small price to pay

>> for what could happen if a product is not preserved.

Maybe small, local, and quicker is better...

}{ugs,

Josh

December 12, 2004

Hiya Josh,

> Thanks for that Butch... I've been researching alternatives.

> I wonder if Red Shiso would work?

> I have to take issue with the cavalier attitude here, though:

> >Maybe .. but so does drinking water .. and the air we breath .. and

most

> >of the food we eat ..

I don't think Butch is necessarily having a cavalier attitude so much as

he's putting things into a realistic perspective.

> Sure, our water and air are both polluted, and the former is usually

> chemically processed in most areas. This is NOT a good thing! It

> certainly doesn't make using even more chemicals ok (Tu Quoque

> fallacy).

We don't live in bubbles, and even though we can hope to create a

perfect world/environment, it isn't what we deal with (and never have,

even before the industrial revolution and the pollution issues of modern

day came around).

There are many impurities we deal with on a regular basis, some man made

and some natural (heck, it was just shown that the largest polluter in

Washington State this year is Mt. St. Helens, and she is spewing out

MANY more times the pollutants than the next nearest polluter, which is

some man made industrial plant). Of course we want to minimize our

exposure to anything harmful. If we didn't we'd be going against our

Mother Nature provided survival instincts that have gotten us this far

in history

> City water... get rid of it. I can't urge people enough to put

> filters on their faucets AND their shower heads. It's always got

> something in it, even if it's just a rust inhibitor. Maybe you want

> to drink rust inhibitor... none for me, thanks.

Whether it is rust inhibitor or a parasite living in the water - its not

a good thing to be ingesting for sure! I agree that a water filter or

purification system is a good investment.

>> However, we use such a low dosage that these harmful chemicals should

>> not present a problem for most people.

> Three words: Multiple Chemical Sensitivity

As Butch stated, these preservatives don't necessarily present a problem

for MOST individuals. MOST folks don't have MCS, even if the number is

growing, it still is not the majority of folks, and that is what mass

marketed items are tailored to, the mass market. Folks who have specific

issues they are dealing with definitely have to find specialty items

that are best suited to their special needs. I do think folks can reduce

their chances of acquiring MCS by avoiding unnecessary exposure to

chemicals, and not using EO's neat is even an example of that - because

becoming sensitized to an EO is actually a form of MCS and evidence of a

messed up immune system.

>And it's a small price to pay

>> for what could happen if a product is not preserved.

> Maybe small, local, and quicker is better...

I agree! And I agree that more folks might even want to make their own

lotions, and their own supper even! I make so many of my own products

myself, but for those who want to get a product off of the shelf, in a

big store, for whatever the reason .... the answer isn't so simple, and

they do need to be protected from bacteria and fungus in their lotions

by preservatives, and unfortunately, there aren't any effective natural

alternatives for those products that might be on the shelves for an

extended period of time, even though I wish there were ...

> }{ugs,

> Josh

*Smile*

Chris (list mom)

There Is Still Time To Order Lovely Gifts Such As

Perfume Bottles & Perfume Pendants

For Christmas Delivery!

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

December 12, 2004

Would Benzoin tincture work as a preservative for salves and creams?

Thank you,

Sandra

December 12, 2004

Sandra,

Benzoine is a known cancer causing risk.

Balsam Poplar is a natural product that mimicks benzoin. ( So it was

explained to me )

I have a small amount of balsam poplar tincture that I am willing to

part with to someone who seriously want's to experiment.

C-M

October 6, 2005

> I am wondering why we can or can't use potassium sorbate as the

> preservative in lotions and such?

Anyone? Anyone? I've been wondering about potassium sorbate myself. From

sales literature on websites where potassium sorbate is sold, I have gleaned

that potassium sorbate can be used in lotions -- the catch is that potassium

sorbate is only effective in formulas with low pH (I think under 5). I

suspect many companies do not choose it because it can't be used in

everything so why not just pick a preservative that has a wider pH

application. Or, that you would have to add another additive such as citric

acid to lower the pH so that the potassium sorbate can be effective. Many

natural skin care folks like to add as few additives as possible. I also am

not sure about the desirability of lowering a lotion's pH and the effect it

would have on the skin ... I would love to hear from any " experts " on the

topic about lowering pH of a lotion in order to use potassium sorbate. And

of course, any comments and opinions on potassium sorbate itself.

~Bonnie

October 6, 2005

Hi Bonnie,

This page may be helpful:

http://www.todieforsoap.com/preservatives.htm

In short, Potassium Sorbate only protects against molds, and as you

said, at lower pH. It does not protect against any sort of bacterial

growth.

I've used it in creams I've made for myself...but I'm the only one using

them, so I'm not particularly concerned about bacteria...just want to

make sure the jar of cream on my dresser doesn't get moldy!

HTH!

Melissa

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October 6, 2005

thanks for the link and info! so, to remain natural (but arguably not

necessarily 100% protected), would there be any problems with using both

potassium sorbate to ward off mold and Grapeseed extract to ward off some

'germs' in the same lotion?

October 7, 2005

Hi,

I've used P. Sorbate in lotions and creams.

>

> > I am wondering why we can or can't use potassium sorbate as the

> > preservative in lotions and such?

>

>Anyone? Anyone? I've been wondering about potassium sorbate myself. From

>sales literature on websites where potassium sorbate is sold, I have

>gleaned

>that potassium sorbate can be used in lotions -- the catch is that

>potassium

>sorbate is only effective in formulas with low pH (I think under 5).

Actually it is most effective when ph is 6.5 or lower.

>I

>suspect many companies do not choose it because it can't be used in

>everything so why not just pick a preservative that has a wider pH

>application. Or, that you would have to add another additive such as citric

>acid to lower the pH so that the potassium sorbate can be effective.

My lotions without any acid additives are around 5ish anyway so it's good

match.

>Many

>natural skin care folks like to add as few additives as possible. I also

>am

>not sure about the desirability of lowering a lotion's pH and the effect it

>would have on the skin ... I would love to hear from any " experts " on the

>topic about lowering pH of a lotion in order to use potassium sorbate. And

>of course, any comments and opinions on potassium sorbate itself.

>

Okay, my opinion is that most lotions I've ever made were naturally a ph of

5-6 so I never bothered adding citric acid. I do use vitamin C which is

ascorbic acid so maybe that's why. I would much rather use p. sorbate, a

food safe preservative in my skin care products than the less desirable

parabens. I did finally try a " real " preservative for cosmetics and used

germall plus powder in a cream I make. Guess what, went and got moldy where

as the p. sorbate product didn't. Hmmm.... Manufacturing conditions were

the same, so go figure.

About the issue of ph and our skin and lotions, well, we have a natural acid

mantle and it is best to be using products on our skin that are more on the

acid side rather than alkaline. To keep things at 5-6 is pretty good. To

go down to 3.5-4 ph would be a bit of an irritant but is the recommended ph

for an active alpha hydroxy acid treatment lotion.

One of the up sides of using p. sorbate and it needing a lower ph atmosphere

to be active is that bacteria have a hard time living off of an acid

environment. So for it to be more effective against yeast, mold and fungi is

a plus.

Margaret

October 10, 2005

Melissa

If the cream uses water - which I'm assuming it does -

I would definately make sure you do not use the cream

on your face or near your eyes. A bacteria that grows

in lotions with water - or creams - causes blindness.

Can't remember the name of the bacteria, sorry, but if

you're not protected against it I would be cautious

Erin

--- Melissa Bell <mbell wrote:

>

> Hi Bonnie,

>

> This page may be helpful:

>

> http://www.todieforsoap.com/preservatives.htm

>

> In short, Potassium Sorbate only protects against

> molds, and as you

> said, at lower pH. It does not protect against any

> sort of bacterial

> growth.

>

> I've used it in creams I've made for myself...but

> I'm the only one using

> them, so I'm not particularly concerned about

> bacteria...just want to

> make sure the jar of cream on my dresser doesn't get

> moldy!

>

> HTH!

>

> Melissa

>

> This communication, together with any attachments

> hereto or links contained herein, is for the sole

> use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain

> information that is confidential or legally

> protected. If you are not the intended recipient,

> you are hereby notified that any review, disclosure,

> copying, dissemination, distribution or use of this

> communication is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have

> received this communication in error, please notify

> the sender immediately by return e-mail message and

> delete the original and all copies of the

> communication, along with any attachments hereto or

> links herein, from your system.

October 11, 2005

>>I would definately make sure you do not use the cream

on your face or near your eyes. A bacteria that grows

in lotions with water - or creams - causes blindness.

Can't remember the name of the bacteria, sorry, but if

you're not protected against it I would be cautious

Erin<<

Hi Erin,

I don't use this on my face, it's a body cream only! I stick mainly to

jojoba oil on my face, it's one of the few things that doesn't break me

out.

I'll keep this in mind if I ever do make a face cream, though, and use a

full preservative.