Heart disease - Intake of ghee/oil

[Guest guest]

Hi Shirish,

1 ) About use of Ayurvedic medicated ghee in Heart disease.

The patient, Mayuri Shah, for whom this advise was posted, had recently

undergone coronary bypass with a history of high cholesterol and triglycerides,

uncontrolled by medicines. Now both these bodily lipids do come under the Meda

Dhatu, Sneha Guna and Kapha Dosha. Both oil and ghee come in Sneha category,

both are Kapha promoting items. Hence to prevent any rise in bodily lipids,

wishful restraint of oil and ghee, whether plain (non-medicated) or medicated,

is necessary in diet as well as treatment regimes of Heart diseases. There are

references of medicated oils and ghees in the treatise of Heart disease in

Charak Samhita, but they are to be used in Vataj type of Hrud-roga, whereas the

patient has Kaphaja type of Hrud-roga (Heart disease). But a novice / layman /

over-enthusiast may use it in Kaphaja type of Hrud-roga and cause more harm.

Hence the special note for abundant precaution to the patient.

 

2 ) About Panchgavya ghee.

There is no specific reference of Panchgavya ghee in the treatment treatises of

Hrud-roga in Ayurveda. The authentic and limited reference of Panchgavya ghruta

is in the chapter 10 from Charak samhita-Chikitsa Sthan dealing with Apasmar

treatment. The pertinent shlokas are from 18 to 24. There are 40 herbs in this

ghee besides the five cow derivatives - cowdung, urine, curds, milk and ghee

itself. It is to be used primarily in Apasmara, and can also be useful in Unmad,

Shoth-Udar, Gulma, Arsha, Pandu-roga, Halimaka stage of Kamala and Chaturthak

type of Jwara. There is no reference to its indication / use in Heart disease

(Hrud-roga). So, from point of Ayurvedic perspective; Panchgavya ghee, medicated

with 40 herbs or without, has no implications for any other disease than

mentioned as above. Hence, the question of 'dangerous/contradicted' aspect of

Panchgavya ghee in Heart diseases is out of consideration and has no locus

standii, whether general or specific.

 

3 ) About internal use of oils.

There are plenty of oils that are recommended for internal use, the references

being scattered all over the Samhitas. There are two types - i) the direct

source-that is the oils expressed from oil-seeds itself. There are many

substances, of which the routinely used and well-known are oils from Til

(sesame, gingelly), Eranda (castor), Sarshapa (mustard), Atasi (linseed) and

Vatad (almond); ii) various medicated oils that are mentioned according to

diseases, the commonly known are Narayan Tel and Bala Tel (shata-paki). These

are advised to be consumed in the dose of about 30 ml along with warm milk.

Adjustment in doses (higher or lower) depend on the age, condition, acceptance,

feasibilty, affordability and stage of disease. The well-known applications of

internal use of oil are in Abhyantar Snehan (internal oleation) before any major

Panchkarma and in acute exacerbation of Shwas-roga (Asthma).

______________

> Spl. advice - confirm blood lipid levels before starting any

medicated ghee/oil to be taken within.

______________

______________

 

This last statement confused this author. Tried to search some

references where any Ayurvedic medicated ghee (with special refrence to

Panchgavya medicines made from cow ghee) is dangerous / contraindicated in case

of heart disease in general. Can you elaborate what concern you have raised in

above statement? Does ayurveda recommend any medicated oils to be taken within?

[Guest guest]

Madam,

Do you have any solid references to the fact that daily / continuous use of ghee

does not raise the blood-levels of bad / heart-clogging cholesterol and

triglycerides, in susceptible persons Obese, Kapha constitution) or in patients

having CAD or Hyperlipidaemias?

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

____________

.......these lipid numbers are arbitrarily fixed and not very relevant to any

specific patient need - unfortunately allopathic doctors forget this information

and panic about cholesterol levels unnecessarily especially when the word Ghee

- which is related to butter - is mentioned!

It is most unfortunate to see that even ayurvedic doctors have come under this

Pharmaceutical influence.

[Guest guest]

I would be happy for you to show me the figures

 

Jane

..................................................

 

> Do you have any solid references to the fact that daily / continuous use

> of ghee does not raise the blood-levels of bad / heart-clogging

> cholesterol and triglycerides, in susceptible persons Obese, Kapha

> constitution) or in patients having CAD or Hyperlipidaemias?

[Guest guest]

1 ) About use of Ayurvedic medicated ghee in Heart disease

The patient, Mayuri Shah, for whom this advise was posted, had

recently

undergone coronary bypass with a history of high cholesterol and

triglycerides, uncontrolled by medicines. Now both these bodily

lipids do

come under the Meda Dhatu, Sneha Guna and Kapha Dosha. Both oil and

ghee

come in Sneha category, both are Kapha promoting items. Hence to

prevent any rise in bodily lipids, wishful restraint of oil and

ghee, whether

plain (non-medicated) or medicated, is necessary in diet as well as

treatment regimes of Heart diseases. There are references of

medicated

oils and ghees in the treatise of Heart disease in Charak Samhita,

but

they are to be used in Vataj type of Hrud-roga, whereas the patient

has

Kaphaja type of Hrud-roga (Heart disease). But a novice / layman /

over-enthusiast may use it in Kaphaja type of Hrud-roga and cause

more harm.

Hence the special note for abundant precaution to the patient.

 

 

<

The concern on Ghee/Oils is posted for a wrong patient.

Recommendation for Mayuri Shah has been posted in the reply for Mr

Jamil Khan, Post 14034, who has a problem of heart enlargement. His

case does not give any indication of his type of Hrud-roga! That is

why the confusion. When next case comes to mind, old case must

be " erased " from the memory so that fresh and unbiased logic emerges

without any confusion/mix-up.>

 

 

2 ) About Panchgavya ghee

There is no specific reference of Panchgavya ghee in the treatment

treatises of Hrud-roga in Ayurveda. The authentic and limited

reference of

Panchgavya ghruta is in the chapter 10 from Charak samhita-Chikitsa

Sthan dealing with Apasmar treatment.

 

<The word used was Panchgavya medicines in general, not Panchgavya

Ghruta. An oblique reference to Arjuna Ghruta was logical in this

context. >

 

 

3 ) About internal use of oils

There are plenty of oils that are recommended for internal use, the

references being scattered all over the Samhitas ….

 

 

< Thanks for the information on oils.

 

 

It is the impression of this author that the importance of Panchgavya

medicines, particularly those used in heart disease is not noted by

many practitioners. On the other hand there is a confusion. Linking

Cholesterol and Trioglicerides to Med Dhatu, Sneha guna and Kaph

dosha appears logical. But how a substance like cow ghee, which is classed under

sneha guna, enhancing Kapha dosha, med dhatu, reduces

Cholesterol and triglicerides in most people remains a mystery. The purpose of

this post is not to solve this mystery but to support the view that Cow Ghee,

sesame oil are helpful in Hrud-roga, the quantity to be regulated according to

the patient's pulse. The clearing the confusion in the minds of the members

regarding saturated fats is also another purpose.

 

Author takes this opportunity to mention that not only ancient

acharyas and Vaidyas of last century but even western MDs and medical

researchers have noted the healing power of Indian Cow ghee and

sesame oil in many serious chronic diseases. In Ayurveda Ghee

defaults to Indian Cow ghee, oil by default is sesame oil and word

sugar means crystal sugar. Author gives here few references (most

of them available online), [wherein those from Goushalas and

organizations which can be accused of religious bias have been

omitted]

 

In the querry posed, author had an oblique reference to Arjuna

Ghruta(Manufactured in Goushala), which is successfully used by him

and is also recommended by a reputed Pharma:

http://www.allayurveda.com/topic_month_april2003.htm

 

Ghee increases HDL cholesterol (good cholesterol) and is

cardioprotective, increases longevity, Kapha types should take only

in moderation, recommends an ayurvedic college in Mumbai, on page 3

of its report on some trials done:

http://www.ayurvedinstitute.com/horizon/Horizon%20book%20%20Pg%2010\

-12.pdf

 

The ghee can be used in moderation, harm is not a concern here.

The contribution of ghee to spiritual energy is something most

students of this Institute should pave in their memory. An academic institute

discussing spirituality is something worth noting.

 

An ayurvedic doctor (also a our group member) endorses ghee as a dietary

approach for heart diseases on his own website(showing his serious intent):

http://ayurveda-foryou.com/ebook/ebook10.html

http://groups.google.comAyuayurvedaforyou/browse_thread/threa\

d/229bd6b901d7cd2a

 

Cow ghee and medicine mixed with it recommended by a largest selling

pharma in India, for treating heart disease:

http://www.baidyanath.org/diheart.shtml

 

Shantilal Shah, President of the International Cardiology Conference,

says that milk is highly beneficial to all heart patients. Modern

doctors also recommend that cholesterol patients not use any fat

other than cow ghee. Cow ghee does not increase cholesterol and

produces no detrimental effects on the heart.

 

http://ecovillage-asia.org/mambo/index.php\

?option=com_content & task=view & id=29 & Itemid=42

 

Cow ghee, butter recommended (By a western doctor) as dietary

treatment for cholesterol (leading to Hridaya Roga), but buffalo fats

are to be avoided:

http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/herbsforcholesterol.shtml

 

Cow ghee cures heart disease:

http://www.iskconlive.com/Holistic%20Cow%20Care.htm

 

What some of our practicing group members say for Cow ghee and

cholesterol:

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ayurveda/261168-ghee-\

cholesterol.html

 

Ghee has been shown to reduce serum cholesterol in one rodent study:

Matam Vijaya Kumara; Kari Sambaiaha; Belur R. Lokesh (February

2000). " Hypocholesterolemic effect of anhydrous milk fat ghee is

mediated by increasing the secretion of biliary lipids " . The Journal

of Nutritional Biochemistry 11 (2): 69–75

 

According to Bhav Prakash Nighantu, cow-ghee is helpful for eye

sight, improving digestion. `Tridosh Nashak', energetic, brain tonic,

ageing factors, Tonic, fragrant, `Madhuri', Cold and over all the

best of the `ghee'. Being tridosh nashak, concern for Kapha people is

diluted.

 

A leading Indian pharamacy recommends cow ghee in heart pain medicine

<http://www.baidyanath.org/diheart.shtml>

Paste of Pushkarmool, Sunthi and shathi mixed with alkali water

(ksharodak), ghee and salt alleviates cutting pain in heart.

Mruga shringa bhasma with cow's ghee is to be taken it alleviates

pain.

 

The beneficial effects of cow ghee for cholesterol patients presented

to the World Ayurveda Congress 2002 at Kochin, Kerala, India, 1st

November 2002 By Dr. Rakesh Modi. This presentation has won Research

Award at World Ayurveda Congress 2002:

http://www.ayurvedtoronto.com/ghee.htm

 

Revolutionary change seems to be sweeping the mindset of a section of

medical researchers who are now saying that eggs, red meat, butter

and pure ghee may not be the taboo food that we've imagined them to

be all these years. Dr. Khosla, who was formerly chief dietician at

the Escorts Heart Institute adds.

http://www.the-south-\

asian.com/August2003/nutrition_and_new_theories.htm

 

Excerpts from A Paper Presented on Cow Therapy in the International

Congress on Alternate Medicines held at Lala Lajpatra COLLEGE, MUMBAI

(INDIA) on 15th and 17th March, 1996 (Dr. GAURISHANKAR J. MAHESHWARI,

D.Sc., M.D. (M.A.), Ph.D., SAHITYARATNA, GOLD MEDALIST)

 

Patients of heart disese who were suggested byepass surgery, have

been cured by Panchgavya therapy:

http://www.iscowp.org/11-1/Volume%2011%20Issue%201.htm

 

In authors experience, even sesame oil is useful in CAD and

Hypertension, it lowers bad cholesterol, increases good one and also

lowers triglicerides, an Indian paper in a foreign journal may be

read fully at the pubmed link:

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ayurveda/261980-seasame-gingelly\

-oil.html

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1942178

 

One excellent post by our group member, Dr Venu Gopal, with literature

refrences:

 

ayurveda/message/5598

 

Despite so much published on cow ghee, it's medicinal value could be

understood without reading a word about it! Just take it in warm milk

at bedtime for few days and get the self experience. It is ultimate

Guru. >

 

Dr Bhate

 

 

> ______________

> > Spl. advice - confirm blood lipid levels before starting any

> medicated ghee/oil to be taken within.

> ______________

 

> This last statement confused this author. Tried to search some

> references where any Ayurvedic medicated ghee (with special

refrence to Panchgavya medicines made from cow ghee) is dangerous /

contraindicated in case of heart disease in general. Can you

elaborate what concern you have raised in above statement? Does

ayurveda recommend any medicated oils to be taken within?

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Yadu

 

Thanks for enriching this discussion. Author would request your expert opinion

on few more points.

 

" The relationship between dietary fats and CVD, especially coronary heart

disease, has been extensively investigated, with strong and consistent

associations emerging from a wide body of evidence accrued from animal

experiments, as well as observational studies, clinical trials and metabolic

studies conducted in diverse human populations...Saturated fatty acids raise

total and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol...The most effective

replacement for saturated fatty acids in terms of coronary heart disease outcome

are polyunsaturated fatty acids, especially linoleic acid. This finding is

supported by the results of several large randomized clinical trials, in which

replacement of saturated and trans fatty acids by polyunsaturated vegetable oils

lowered coronary heart disease risk. "

 

 

This is the conclusion of WHO. Wide scale use of oils unknown to Indians 20

years ago has brout in new problems, which is out of scope for this post. Most

of the studies on which WHO conclusion is based, did not have access to Indian

Cow Ghee. The availability of this rare item is very poor. Even then, when you

come to India next, please collect some for personal consumption.

 

Author gives few references here, in which ghee is found exceptional saturated

fat. It dominates the scene when consumed with other LDL-C promoting oils, as

shown in one trial quoted here.

 

1. Reducing saturated fat intake is associated with increased levels of LDL

receptors on mononuclear cells in healthy men

Journal of Lipid Research, Vol 38, 459-468, 1997 by Lipid Research,

Inc.

[ available online http://www.jlr.org/cgi/content/abstract/38/3/459]

 

2. Like any clarified butter, ghee is composed almost entirely of saturated fat.

Ghee has been shown to reduce serum cholesterol in one rodent study. Studies in

Wistar rats have revealed one mechanism by which ghee reduces plasma LDL

cholesterol. This action is mediated by an increased secretion of biliary lipids

Matam Vijaya Kumara; Kari Sambaiaha; Belur R. Lokesh (February 2000).

" Hypocholesterolemic effect of anhydrous milk fat ghee is mediated by increasing

the secretion of biliary lipids " . The Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry 11

(2): 69–75. doi:10.1016/S0955-2863(99)00072-8.

 

3. Fish oil and soy oil take a piggy back ride on ghee to prove their lipid

lowering property:

For rats fed diet containing cow ghee in combination with fish oil or soy oil,

the cholesterol content of total plasma, lipoprotein fractions (VLDL, LDL and

HDL) and organs was decreased significantly.

International journal of food sciences and nutrition ISSN 0963-7486

2000, vol. 51, no3, pp. 159-167 (1 p.1/2)

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=1424027

 

4. This study revealed that the consumption of ghee up to a 10% level in the

diet altered blood lipid profiles in such a manner as not to elevate the risk

factors for cardiovascular diseases. Effect of dietary ghee—the anhydrous milk

fat, on blood and liver lipids in rats . The Journal of Nutritional

Biochemistry , Volume 10 , Issue 2 , Pages 96 - 104

 

5. Various studies have found that women who had regularly consumed the greatest

amounts of saturated fats had the least amount of additional atherosclerotic

plaque buildup in their arteries. Also, women who ate more saturated fat had a

healthier balance of HDL and LDL cholesterol, and more desirable blood serum

concentrations of triglycerides and free fatty acids. American Journal of

Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 80, No. 5, 1102-1103, November 2004

 

6. A 3-year study of 235 women, released in 2004, concluded that " in

postmenopausal women with relatively low total fat intake, a greater saturated

fat intake is associated with less progression of coronary atherosclerosis. " .

Coronary angiography was employed to examine 2,243 coronary artery segments;

once at the start of the study and once more at its conclusion. The same study

revealed similarly surprising results when it was disclosed that a greater

consumption of polyunsaturated oils " was also associated with greater

progression of atherosclerosis " .

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 80, No. 5, 1175-1184, November 2004

available online:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CYD/is_13_39/ai_n6114090

 

Your thoughts on these studies would help all to understand why ghee is

exceptional. Scientists are scratching the heads, while spiritual ayurveda's

terminology is difficult to understand for a science mindset. Ayurvedic colleges

propose that ghee has spiritual energy which electonic scans cant catch.

 

Dr Bhate

 

 

_________________

Ghee itself may not have that much cholesterol but consumption of

saturated fat certainly does increase LDL.

 

Heart muscle is the only muscle in our body that totally depends on

deriving the necessary energy from burning fat.

 

Probably that is why our sages having recognized this they announced -

 

aayurvaighR^itaM - Eating ghee increases lifespan.

[Guest guest]

[Dear Members: This post is by Dr. Yadu, got deleted accidentally, and is being

posted from back up copy. This authors post got mixed up in his post in last

message.]

 

Namaste:

 

This discussion reminded me of the profound vedic statement where

they define food:

anna (food)is defined as

yatadyate tadannaM - Meaning - What you eat is food.

 

They further define food as follows:

 

yadattii tadannaM - Meaning - What eat's you is also food.

 

This perfectly applies to the current issue of Ghee as well.

 

Ghee itself may not have that much cholesterol but consumption of

saturated fat certainly does increase LDL.

 

Heart muscle is the only muscle in our body that totally depends on

deriving the necessary energy from burning fat.

 

Probably that is why our sages having recognized this they announced -

 

aayurvaighR^itaM - Eating ghee increases lifespan.

 

However, one must keep in mind that this was a recommendation for

yogi's who were purely surveying on a vegetarian diet (kadamuuLa ..

etc.)

 

Now having looked at both sides of the coin we need to be aware of

both and does not mean indiscriminate use of ghee and apply one

standard scale for both.

 

 

Just some thoughts to think about.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

_______

> There are references of

> medicated

> oils and ghees in the treatise of Heart disease in Charak Samhita,

> but

> they are to be used in Vataj type of Hrud-roga, whereas the patient

> has

> Kaphaja type of Hrud-roga (Heart disease). But a novice / layman /

> over-enthusiast may use it in Kaphaja type of Hrud-roga and cause

> more harm.

> Hence the special note for abundant precaution to the patient.

[Guest guest]

Dear Vaidyas and readers,

 

The question of saturated fats causing raised LDL, triglycerides and

obesity has been a controversial one for the last 60 years.

Unfortunately the medical sector has accepted only one side of the

controversy as " scientific truth " .

 

While it is tempting to say that ghee is different because of special

properties (prabhava) or spiritual properties, such explanations only

point to our gross and scanty knowledge of the effects of lipids on

the body. Although medical science has indeed had sufficient knowledge

to make correct recommendations about lipids, it appears that

application has not followed knowledge, or perhaps it's integrity has

been clouded by commercial interests.

 

It has been known since the early 20th century that polyunsaturated

fats are pro-inflammatory and carcinogenic; yet the medical community

and various " heart foundations " have put their tick of approval on

polyunsaturated fats as a major source of nutrition. Hydrogenated fats

(trans-fats) such as margarine interfere with cell messaging and are

now known to cause heart disease - yet have been promoted by

governments and heart foundations for 50 years.

 

Communities have been using saturated fats worldwide, probably since

the beginning of humanity. The Inuit ate seal blubber, the South

Indians and Pacific Islanders had coconut oil, the North Indians had

ghee, people everywhere used meat fats and butter. Most of these

people had virtually no heart problems - until they changed their

diets to polyunsaturated vegetable fats (PUFAs) and trans-fats

(hydrogenated fats).

 

As opposed to PUFAs with their high-Omega6 content (which is

pro-inflammatory), saturated fats and high-Omega3 PUFAs such as fish

oils are anti-inflammatory.

 

Here are some " controversial " points you might like to consider:

 

1. Blood cholesterol has been found to have no correlation with

cholesterol in food. Try eating eggs everyday and see if your blood

cholesterol goes up.

 

2. High LDL does not necessarily correlate with heart disease. The

Australian Aborigines have very low blood LDL, and the highest heart

disease in the world. The Swiss have high LDL, and low heart disease

incidence.

 

2. LDL is now thought by some experts NOT to be a " bad " cholesterol.

My question is: how can the body, in its wisdom, produce something

that is bad? These experts say that, on the other hand high blood LDL

has a protective role.

 

3. Cholesterol is used by the body for cell-to-cell messaging, and

therefore is essential. Cholesterol is also used in the arteries to

patch up injuries caused by inflammation.

 

4. Inflammation is now thought to be the cause of heart disease - and

not the simplistic idea of " fats clogging the arteries " . Clogged

arteries are caused by layers of cholesterol protecting injury sites;

exacerbated when they oxidise.

 

5. If we accept all the above, the logical protocol for heart health

is to avoid arterial injuries through anti-inflammatory and

anti-oxidant actions of diet and herbs. Why are many ayurvedic Hrdaya

(heart support) herbs sweet and sour in taste? Probably because of

their vitamin C and antioxidant properties. Avoiding heart disease by

eliminating saturated fats and promoting PUFAs, is seen to be

illogical, naive and downright dangerous.

 

Ghee is a form of short- and medium-chain saturated fats, which means

they are easily absorbed into the body, bypassing the usual

chylomicron mechanism. These fats are known to be metabolised quickly

in the liver, and used preferentially as fuel. Thus they are not

deposited as fat in the body. Therefore, while fats are thought to be

Kapha, ghee is Vyavayi, and is mobilised quickly to the tissues,

including the brain - thus its use as a vehicle for herbal treatment.

 

Ghee from pasture-fed cows is high in vitamins A and D, and Conjugated

Linoleic Acid (CLA). Vitamin A is an antioxidant, is important for

vision and bone growth, and is not available in vegetables. Vitamin D

regulates calcium metabolism, and is immune-boosting and anti-cancer.

CLA reduces lipid peroxidation, reduces body fat, and reduces cancers.

Various fatty acids in ghee boost immune function.

 

Charaka and Vagbhata have extolled the virtues of ghee, and it is only

now that we are beginning to understand its actions. As we do more

research, I am sure that the wisdom of traditional medicine will be

vindicated.

 

I urge vaidyas to challenge the medical dogma regarding fat intake and

heart disease. I have not had the time to give you references, but

they are available everywhere on the Internet. Look at the alternative

views, some of them by very intelligent and dedicated people, and see

how much easier it is to correlate their findings with ayurvedic

wisdom. Organisations like WHO really need to update their statements

in the light of modern, as well as ancient, understanding.

 

Best regards,

 

Gerald Lopez

Auckland, New Zealand

________

 

" The relationship between dietary fats and CVD, especially coronary

heart disease, has been extensively investigated, with strong and

consistent associations emerging from a wide body of evidence accrued

from animal experiments, as well as observational studies, clinical

trials and metabolic studies conducted in diverse human

populations...Saturated fatty acids raise total and low-density

lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol...The most effective replacement for

saturated fatty acids in terms of coronary heart disease outcome are

polyunsaturated fatty acids, especially linoleic acid. This finding is

supported by the results of several large randomized clinical trials,

in which replacement of saturated and trans fatty acids by

polyunsaturated vegetable oils lowered coronary heart disease risk. "

 

 

This is the conclusion of WHO.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shirish,

In spite of all the references presented by you about oil and ghee, the clinical

evidence in day-to-day life gives a contrary picture. Total cholesterol, LDL

Cholesterol and Triglycerides do increase, even in a normal person after

consuming oils and ghee, even cow's ghee. So a responsible doctor will never

allow his patients to have oils and ghee in diet, more so in heart patients,

where these factors are considered a risk factor.

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

________________

But how a substance like cow ghee, which is classed under

sneha guna, enhancing Kapha dosha, med dhatu, reduces

Cholesterol and triglicerides in most people remains a mystery.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr Muzumdar

I do agree with your view.

I will appreciate your inputs regarding comparision between the topic of

discussion and pathogenesis of Heart disease by Ayurveda [ i.e. Rasadhatu dusti]

I am reading your posting regularly and your  insight in Ayurvedic principals is

adding in my knowledge.

It is my request. You can write me on my personal ID.

Vaidya Upadhye 

 

 

____________________

In spite of all the references presented by you about oil and ghee, the clinical

evidence in day-to-day life gives a contrary picture. Total cholesterol, LDL

Cholesterol and Triglycerides do increase, even in a normal person after

consuming oils and ghee, even cow's ghee.

[Guest guest]

A teacher of mind once said " That if you take all the oil and fat out

of your diet, that you will lean towards Cancer; and if you keep all

the oil and fat in your diet, then you will lean towards cardiovascular

disease " . He said the answer was to " use the good fats and exercise… "

It just goes to show you that balance! Once again is the answer to

everything… Noel

[Guest guest]

  There are many opinions up till now for Ghee or Oil in the diet for

the Cardiac risk factors . In my opinion Cow Ghee or Teel ( Sesame ) oil , can

be given for the persons suffering from Heart Ailments . If we can make the Ghee

or Oil in such a way that it will neihter increase the Dosha Imbalance nor

increase the LDL.

 

 Herbs should be selected first as per the Body Constitution of the person to

whom , we have to provide the Ghee / Oil . Then make a decoction of it in water

.. The decoction can be made by adding water , 16 times more than the amount of

Herb ( e . g. If the Herb is 500 Gms , then the added water should be 8000 ml .

) Then heat it & stop when the added water remains only 1/4 th ( 2000 ml ) of

the pervious . Then filter it & the filtered Decoction  should be added to Ghee

, which should be taken  125 Gm in amount . Then again heat it upto the limit

when only Ghee / Oil will remain . Then cool it & it is ready for use for the

purpose .

 

This therapy can be applied for any person . We can provide the Ghee or Oil by

making it with the Herbs , as stated previously . It is better to add some

igredients in it , which can decrease the amount of LDL from the blood . It can

serve 2 purposes with this .

 

  It will be made as per the Body Type so , it would not have any problem with

the Dosha's normalcy & it can be made to decrease the LDL with added LDL

decreasing herbs . So that it will be safe for everybody .

  Dr . Gandhi S . C .

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr.Gandhi,

Can you please elaborate the number of cardiac patients which you have treated

by giving medicated cow's ghee or medicated til oil, according to patients

requirements? Can you present some blood investigation data proving that the

lipid factors in blood do not increase, even over a period of continuous use of

ghee or oil, say 3 months to be minimum and 1 year on the maximum ? Because

cardiac treatment is a long-term or life-long treatment. Do you advice the use

of such medicated ghee or oil for life-time intake?

The Samhitas advocate medicated ghee / oil for Vataj types of Hrud-rog only.

Even though ghee and honey are said to be 'Yog-vahi' that is imbibing and

conveying the properties of other herbs in combination, the principle has to be

applied in proper context. If such method was the most beneficial, then all the

other modalities discussed in the Ayurvedic Samhitas and compendiums would have

been of no value.

This may be given a due thought.

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayurveda-Medicine (Mumbai-India)

___

In my opinion Cow Ghee or Teel ( Sesame ) oil , can be given for the persons

suffering from Heart Ailments . If we can make the Ghee or Oil in such a way

that it will neihter increase the Dosha Imbalance nor increase the LDL.

[Guest guest]

> In spite of all the references presented by you about oil and ghee,

the clinical evidence in day-to-day life gives a contrary picture.

Total cholesterol, LDL Cholesterol and Triglycerides do increase,

even in a normal person after consuming oils and ghee, even cow's

ghee.

 

It would have be a real brain storming challenge to examine that

clinical evidence itself. The objective of the group is to exchange

the experiences of ayurveda, practical knowledge which samhitas do

not cover adequately, patient experiences about vaidyas in general.

If something is likely to help a member, anyone can post it here.

 

It is very easy to disagree when a leading pharma, dietician of a

reputed hospital, President of an International Cardiology

Conference, western MDs and Vaidyas who have bypassed bypass surgery

agree on something, by saying that " clinical evidence presents

contrary picture. " The statement assumes real weight only when that

evidence is presented. It may also be noted that " Kapha unbalance

people should take cow ghee in moderation only " has no disagreement.

 

Dr. Bhate

[Guest guest]

The proof of the pudding is in its eating.

Those heart patients who want to try the safety of cow's ghee can always go

ahead, as being advocated by you, and keep a check on their cholesterol and

triglycerides, while consuming ghee.

But unfortunately, they will not heed to your advice as they have their hearts

and lives at stake.

For clinical studies to be mentioned, there are aplenty.

What is your personal experience? Have you kept a check on the blood lipids of

the heart patients you are treating?

It is easier to advice than to enact.

What I have expressed regarding this matter, in the earlier replies, is only

after pursuing my own patient records.

And I am not in the habit of advising without having enough experience in the

related matter.

My only objective of getting involved in this forum is to spread awareness

against following Ayurveda in blind faith and harming their own selves, as there

are many people who like to have business and other motives under the garb of

Ayurveda.

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayurveda Medicine

______________

 

It would have be a real brain storming challenge to examine that

clinical evidence itself. The objective of the group is to exchange

the experiences of ayurveda, practical knowledge which samhitas do

not cover adequately, patient experiences about vaidyas in general.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Dr. Muzumdar for your informative posts and projecting Ayurveda in the

right perspective and also according to age we live. As a follower of Ayurveda

I've greatly benefited from your posts . I've seen many people in my extended

family who blindly believe Ghee can do no harm come what may in the name of

Ayurveda! Sadly , their cholestrol and triglyceride readings tell a different

story. Please continue to participate in this forum for the benefit of those who

love to follow Ayurveda correctly. We understand that you as a responsible

physican write only from your clinical observations and experience without

deviating from the dictums given in Ayurveda. I feel as patients one should take

anecdotes and personal experiences from others very cautiously especially when

dealing with complicated matters of heart.

 

Regards,

Pradeep

____________________________

Those heart patients who want to try the safety of cow's ghee can always go

ahead, as being advocated by you, and keep a check on their cholesterol and

triglycerides, while consuming ghee.

[Guest guest]

> Those heart patients who want to try the safety of cow's ghee can

always go ahead, as being advocated by you, and keep a check on their

cholesterol and triglycerides, while consuming ghee.

> But unfortunately, they will not heed to your advice as they have

their hearts and lives at stake.

 

Exactly opposite. Only few of them had to be convinced by asking them to take

the modern tests, if they felt any negative effects on health. Two of

them took those tests despite absence of any negative effects. And

they were surprised to see the results, which correlated well with

their experiencing reduced events of short breath, angina pains, sweating

episodes, slight loss of weight, increaased energy levels etc. In later part of

this post author explains the probable scientific theories. Author

has given Indian cow ghee to pregnant moms also, who found it very

beneficial. The effect of ghee on fertility is also experienced very

positive.

 

 

 

> For clinical studies to be mentioned, there are aplenty.

> What is your personal experience? Have you kept a check on the

blood lipids of the heart patients you are treating?

 

As explained in first paragraph, it was patients who carried out

lipid checks and brought those to the author, author nvere thinks in

terms of modern parameters. When ayurveda has offered so many, why

they are needed. They provide convenient terminology to ,modern

vaidyas to publish papers.

 

 

> It is easier to advice than to enact.

 

This is a legal language which author does not know well, this simple

vaidya knows that with love and dedication to the ayurveda, even

poisons turn into medicine.

 

There is considerable divergence between ayurvedic and modern viewpoints on the

effect of ghee on human body, which carries over to between the community of

traditionally trained vaidyas and those from academic institutions. While after

the intake of ghee during panchkarma procedure, patients report fall in the

triglyceride level, still in the mind of the general public a lot of confusion

and fear prevail about the safe consumption of ghee[9]. Hence, for benifits of

other members, author would like to present some published science to sift the

facts from bias created by western research on adulterated or non-indian-cow

ghee.

 

The saturated fat in mammalian milk/butter/ghee is unlike the fat

found in meat or even other vegetable fats. It is identical to a

special group of fats found in human breast milk called medium-chain

fatty acids (MCFA) also referred to as medium-chain triglycerides

(MCT). These special fatty acids have been shown to stimulate the

metabolism, improve digestion, strengthen the immune system, and

protect against bacterial, viral, and fungal infections as well as

protect the heart and arteries from the conditions that cause heart

disease.

 

Natural fatty acids commonly have a chain of 4 to 28 carbons (usually

unbranched and even numbered), which may be saturated or unsaturated.

Fatty acids can be saturated and unsaturated, depending on double

bonds. They differ in length as well. Those having 8-14 Carbon atoms

fall in MCFA class

 

Saturated fatty acids do not contain any double bonds or other

functional groups along the chain. The term " saturated " refers to

hydrogen, in that all carbons (apart from the carboxylic acid [-COOH]

group) contain as many hydrogens as possible. In other words, the

omega (ù) end contains 3 hydrogens (CH3-), and each carbon within the

chain contains 2 hydrogen atoms.

 

Saturated fatty acids form straight chains and, as a result, can be

packed together very tightly, allowing living organissms to store

chemical energy very densely. The fatty tissues of animals contain

large amounts of long-chain saturated fatty acids.

 

Short- and medium chain fatty acids are absorbed directly into the

blood via intestine capillaries and travel through the portal vein

just as other absorbed nutrients do. However, long chain fatty acids

are too large to be directly released into the tiny intestine

capillaries. Instead they are absorbed into the fatty walls of the

intestine villi and reassembled again into triglycerides. The

triglycerides are coated with cholesterol and protein (protein coat)

into a compound called a chylomicron[1].

 

Blood fatty acids are in different forms in different stages in the

blood circulation. They are taken in through the intestine in

chylomicrons, but also exist in very low density lipoproteins (VLDL)

and low density lipoproteins (LDL) after processing in the liver. In

addition, when released from adipocytes, fatty acids exist in the

blood as free fatty acids.

 

Replacement of dietary triglycerides containing long-chain fatty

acids (LCFA) by triglycerides containing medium-chain fatty acids

(MCFA) markedly reduced the capacity of alcohol to produce fatty

liver in rats. After 24 days of ethanol and MCFA, the increase in

hepatic triglycerides was only 3 times that of controls, whereas an 8-

fold rise was observed after ethanol and LCFA.[2]

 

A randomized double blind trial in Germany studied effects on the MCFA

metabolism in humans, reported in Ref[3]. The plasma triglicerides and

cholesterol decrease was clearly noted. The reasons for this are brought out

clearly there. The first western country to study Ayurveda through Sanskrit,

should also receive credit for understanding ghee benifits.

 

The adverse effects of ghee are due to ghee adulterated with lard and

margarine, which alters the profile of saturated and unsaturated

fatty acids in ghee.[4] Ghee is also called clarified butter, it

sounds deadly to the arteries, but actually has a rather positive

effect on the cholesterol and HDL's (good cholesterol). In the

intestines, ghee is converted to butyrate, a short chain fatty acid

which both regulates the intestinal flora and promotes the health of

the colon tissue.

 

The benefits of pure ghee is known to even service minded Indian

allopathic doctors. A case is reported in Ref[5]. Here, Dr Bihari S

Raheja, director, All India Institute of Diabetes

(AIID), Mumbai, opines that Indian cow ghee is beneficial for

diabetes too, based on studies.

 

Amongst the studies done to know adverse effects of fats, many of

these studies were done using hydrogenated polyunsaturates, not

saturated fats at all. Many other studies have shown that those with

the highest levels of saturated fat intake had the better health. And

many other studies were inconclusive due to the many other factors

involved. Author of this post feels that Indian cow ghee has been

used in very few studies as the availability itself is very poor. Not

even ayurvedic doctors get this in the quantity needed as medicine.

This ghee can cross blood-brain-barrier and hence it is used in many

ayurvedic ghrutams aimed at neuro-psychotropic ailments(Post 13185).

 

There is now some doubt as to whether cholesterol levels are an

accurate indicator of your likelihood of getting heart disease.

Cholesterol is another substance that is vital to our body's health,

and is made by the liver as needed. [6]. The idea that too much

animal fat and high cholesterol are dangerous to your heart and

vessels is nothing but a myth[7], as claimed by a highly qualified

health professional and researcher. In fact high cholesterol protects

against infections and atherosclerosis[8].

 

 

Lastly, there is a major difference between the medicinal/hormonal properties of

Indian cow ghee and other breeds such as Jersey, Holstein etc. The properties

described in ancient texts are to be found 100% in Indian cow ghee[10], while

other ghees, even though they have similar taste, have yellowish color too, do

not give as much medicinal proeprties. Mr Babubhai Dedhiya, a patient from

Ghatkopar, Mumbai, suffering from hard constipation, had consulted several

vaidyas in Ghatkopar, but no cure. When he approached this author, author told

him to take cow ghee. " I am taking it for last one year! " he explained.

Enquiries revealed he had his own Jersey breed cows. When he switched to Indian

cow ghee(Bos Indicus) within a month his constipation vanished. That is the

reason, Indian cow ghee is used in Panchkarma on large scale. But with poor

availability of Indian cow ghee, be willing to accept only partial benifits.

 

Ghee has a high burning point. It has stable saturated bonds which are not

easily broken down by heat. Therefore, ghee is not likely to form damaging free

radicals when cooked. A patient reports his experience after consuming cow ghee

for one year, which is very informative:

 

http://freeradicalfederation.com/archive/2006/\

08/22/GheeLowersCholesterol.aspx

 

A number of comments/discussion follows his experience, which is a typical

indicator of modern science misleading people at large which includes modern

vaidyas too!

 

Ghee contains beta-carotene and vitamins A, D, E and K. It also has 4 to 5 %

linoleic acid, which helps the body grow and develop. Linoleic acid is an

essential fatty acid often lacking in a vegetarian diet. That is why, ancient

sage survived on fully vegetarian diet(Post#14120). Plus a certain amount of fat

is essential to prevent degeneration of skin, nerves and brain cells. Also, good

fats are needed for efficient absorption of crucial lipidsoluble vitamins such

as A, E, D and K.

 

Some food for thought: The other breeds weigh more, eat more, give five times

the milk given by Indian cow, the milk of other breeds is richer in Fat. They

respond readily to oxytocin injections and require antibiotics to ensure their

survival in tropical climate. Hence available in plenty to make India the

highest milk producing country in the world. While Indian cow conceives the

natural way, other breeds require artificial insemination. And most Indian cows

are lean and thin, one can count their ribs from distance. By consuming milk and

milk-products of other breeds, we have also increased our BMI and on our way to

need ART techniques for sustaining the race!

 

Dr. Bhate

 

 

Some experiences of Indian Ayurvedic doctors, Allopaths and pharmas were cited

in post#14056. Some more referred in this post are:

 

 

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid

2. Difference in hepatic metabolism of long- and medium-chain

fatty acids: the role of fatty acid chain length in the production of

the alcoholic fatty liver.J Clin Invest. 1967 Sep;46(9):1451-60.

3. http://www.lipidworld.com/content/2/1/10

4. Journal of American Oil Chemists Society, 60(9), Sept 1983,

abstract online at:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k64344423476571h/

5. http://www.fropper.com/forum/message-list.php?

topic_id=6243 & board_id=9

6. http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/

7. http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

8. Quarterly Journal of Medicine, 96(12), 927-934, 2003

9. Ghee, an age-old remedy, Dr R. Vatsyayan,

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20021204/health.htm

10. Ghee an ayurvedic perspective

http://www.amritaveda.com/learning/articles/ghee.asp

[Guest guest]

Your opinion would have been well recieved if the figures of lipid profile blood

tests of the heart patients who have been taking cow's ghee were provided in

your post. This point in not at all clarified.

 

The clarification distracts from the specific issue of heart patients and their

use of cow's ghee to it's use to pregnant moms, the fact that is never

contra-indicated. Even use of cow's ghee in constipation is not the basic issue.

 

The discussion should have been more concentrated if it had shown a real concern

for use of cow's ghee in heart patients.

_____________

 

Exactly opposite. Only few of them had to be convinced by asking them to take

the modern tests, if they felt any negative effects on health. Two of

them took those tests despite absence of any negative effects. And

they were surprised to see the results, which correlated well with

their experiencing reduced events of short breath, angina pains, sweating

episodes, slight loss of weight, increaased energy levels etc.

[Guest guest]

in any diseases were vatha pitha dominance is established and agnibala is

assesed, surely lipid levels wont be disturbed, but in ama avastha and kapha

pradhana rogas and sanga type of srotho dushti, personally i wont prefer ghrtha

preparations as it will further cause problems, and in these types u may expect

the abnormal lipid levels

suneel

[Guest guest]

> Your opinion would have been well recieved if the figures of lipid

profile blood tests of the heart patients who have been taking cow's

ghee were provided in your post. This point in not at all clarified.>

 

 

Sorry for the delay; patient visits every 6-8 weeks. He was willing

to provide the reports, he had taken on his own. This author never

required any reports.

 

They are given in file Lipid_Profile_Sanjay_Amrute.doc stored in

Files section of the group website, in folder Articles, SubFolder

Dr.BhateFiles.

 

 

> The clarification distracts from the specific issue of heart

patients and their use of cow's ghee to it's use to pregnant moms,

the fact that is never contra-indicated. Even use of cow's ghee in

constipation is not the basic issue.

 

This anecdotal case was to show the difference between Jersey cow

ghee and Indian cow ghee and therefore distracts. In the context of

Constipation, if Jersey cow ghee is ineffective, it will be equally

so so for heart too. That was the intension of discussion on its use in chronic

constipation.

 

 

>

> The discussion should have been more concentrated if it had shown a

real concern for use of cow's ghee in heart patients.

 

You may see what difference cow ghee made to this patients health as

well as reports, after going through above file. Generally patients

are not worried about any reports, they want health experience, while

reports satisfy professional's ego and offer legal safety. Doctors should put

themselves in patients shoes also. Some patient thinks it safer approach, since

he is not victim to doctors incompetancy in diagnosing without any reports. What

about the cases where report file weighs in pounds and still diagnosis is

uncertain, a common occurance these days?

 

Dr Bhate

[Guest guest]

This author has advocated use of Indian cow ghee to reduce excess cholesterol, a

possible rish factor for heart disease. A documentary evidence was provided for

a patient in message 14646, when a patient was given a liver detox using indian

cow ghee and followed by diet consisting of this ghee.

 

The present post includes explaination on why liver detox reduces the

cholesterol, offered by another alternative practioner at

 

http://www.jonbarron.org/baseline-health-program/2009-12-21-understanding-the-li\

ver-and-cholesterol.php

 

Above page is very informative on how statin drugs work! Author had a hard time

improving the loss of " short-term-memory " and " blood sugar control out-of-whack "

of a patient who had taken them for 8-10 years.

 

Few comments in order: Vaidyas do not think in terms of mopdern reports, terms.

Pulse cries out clogging in strotas of liver, by ama, which in such cases could

be fats/lipids. CHange the diet, offer ghee/oil followed by bastis to detox

liver and this wonderful organ starts doing vaidyas job of balancing fats,

lipids, hormones, vitamins! perhaps internal doctor of alternative science is

liver assisted by kidney!

 

______________

 

> Your opinion would have been well recieved if the figures of lipid

> profile blood tests of the heart patients who have been taking cow's

> ghee were provided in your post. This point in not at all clarified.>

 

Sorry for the delay; patient visits every 6-8 weeks. He was willing

to provide the reports, he had taken on his own. This author never

required any reports.

 

They are given in file Lipid_Profile_Sanjay_Amrute.doc stored in

Files section of the group website, in folder Articles, SubFolder

Dr.BhateFiles.

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

I have gall stones and do an olive oil/lemon juice flush once in a while. I

tried to switch to ghee but found ghee irritates the gall bladder and results in

digestion problems. I have heard that gingerlly oil or nallennae (tamil) is good

for health. I have blood pressure and note that my bp comes down when I do a gb

flush.

 

S.

 

....................

This author has advocated use of Indian cow ghee to reduce excess cholesterol,

a possible rish factor for heart disease.

[Guest guest]

The ghee that is available in plenty is either from the milk of buffalo or

joursey cow. This ghee does not do " pittashaman " or detoxification. Try Indian

cow ghee and see that it performs superior to even oils. Author used it for

patients aged 70+ and it gave wonderful results. In panchkarma ghrutpana

(drinking cow ghee) has a special place. Ofcourse, some patients need to be

given with some other herbs, so that it suits them.

 

_____

 

I tried to switch to ghee but found ghee irritates the gall bladder and results

in digestion problems.