Ayurveda, Disease and animal ingredients

[Guest guest]

I am suffering from debilitating adrenal fatigue since a crash in

2006, this after an ayurvedic doctor mistreated me for several

months for chronic stress and astma symptoms. I havent been able to

work since then. I was a lactovegetarian for many years but started

eating fish and eggs about 8 years ago. I was making very slow

progress for many months and I have now for the past 3 months been

following an orthomolecular adrenal fatigue treatment protocol by a

physician who is a leading intl expert in adrenal fatigue. I have

made some okay progress since then. He has recommended to use a

multiglandular supplement (processed to be hormone free) derived

from porcine glandular sources and one particular bovine thyroid

glandular source. This product is reported to be extremely healing

to people suffering from adrenal fatigue, where nothing else has

been able to help them get well again. I was a vegetarian because of

religious and ethical considerations, based on the Vaishnava faith,

which hold very strong opinions about eating meat from cows. I am

desperate to get well from this debilitating disease, but have grave

reservations because of my religious affinity and belief.

But I want to know what does the Ayurvedic texts say about the use

of meat/organ tissues from the cow to heal human diseases? I know

that animal ingredients are used in many ayurvedic preparations and

read somewhere that Ayurveda even suggests taking beef liver as a

medicine for anemia. Also to use mutton liver, red meat and bone

soup to help rebuild RBC. Is this from the buffalo or the cow? Were

these ingredients supposed to be from animals which died on their

own accord? In the vedic scriptures and many of the religious

traditions, the cow is regarded as the most sacred animal. How can

Ayurveda recommend taking the meat and organs from the cow then?

[Guest guest]

Ayurveda is impartial as to the religious concerns. Ayurvedic texts do not ban

cow's meat either as food or as therapeutic regime. In various contexts, from

insects to lions, and from small fish to whales and crocodiles, all are used as

potential medicines. The properties of the various meats are also described

accordingly in the Sutra-sthanas of leading Ayurvedic scriptures. Even the

excretas of wild animals like bear, wolf etc.find mention in the treatments,

besides other body parts like hair,nails etc. Even the medicinal application of

excreta of common house-fly is documented in Ayurvedic texts. It is left to the

discretion and choice of the vaidya and patient and their mutual understanding

and co-operation in using such remedies for treatment.

If you were to view TV channels like Discovery, National Geographic etc, you

will find bizzare (according to us civilised world) food cuisines involving

insects , snakes, scorpions and other animals, relished by the aboriginal tribes

scattered all over the world, even today.

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayurveda-Medicine(Mumbai-India)

< dahpc >

_____________________

 

I was a vegetarian because of

religious and ethical considerations, based on the Vaishnava faith,

which hold very strong opinions about eating meat from cows. I am

desperate to get well from this debilitating disease, but have grave

reservations because of my religious affinity and belief.

But I want to know what does the Ayurvedic texts say about the use

of meat/organ tissues from the cow to heal human diseases?

[Guest guest]

Recollect an ayurvedic medicine for wooping cough which had the lungs of

a bird used as an ingredient. As wooping cough is not anymore a common

illness, I guess the medicine might not be in production these days.

 

Aaroamal

________________-

what does the Ayurvedic texts say about the use

of meat/organ tissues from the cow to heal human diseases?

[Guest guest]

If the medicine is made in the US I would be reluctant to try it because it may

affect hormones negativley

maybe some one can suggest ayurvedic therapy instead of this

[Guest guest]

Hello Dr D.B. Muzumbar

 

Thank you for the reply. Could you name some references from the

ayurvedic texts about the use of cow tissue ingredients for different

diseases?

 

Thank you.

 

~ Ole Alstrup

 

___________________________

Ayurveda is impartial as to the religious concerns. Ayurvedic texts

do not ban cow's meat either as food or as therapeutic regime.

[Guest guest]

It is made in Argentina and processed to be hormone free. The adrenal

doctor also recommends specific herbs, including liqourice and

ashwagandha, the latter which he claims will normalize cortisol

levels. I have not been able to find any pubmed references for this

claim. I sincerely doubt if anyone here has succesfully cured adrenal

fatigue through ayurveda treatment alone, this is a modern stress

disease. Of course adrenal fatigue was probably also experienced in

past ages, ie. soldiers in war under extreme pressure.

 

_____________________-

 

If the medicine is made in the US I would be reluctant to try it

because it may affect hormones negativley

maybe some one can suggest ayurvedic therapy instead of this

[Guest guest]

Hi Ole

 

I am very sorry to hear of your negative experience with this

Ayurvedic physician. Your adrenal fatigue could be associated with

ojakashaya, and so measures to enhance ojas could be undertaken.

With regard to using glandulars, its important to note that many of

these products were once just a part of the diet, not necessarily on

a regular basis, but periodically, in the same way that many people

used to eat liver once a week. For many glandulars, the amount

actually found in the product is far less than what would

traditionally be consumed as part of the diet. Sort of like taking a

greens formula instead of eating your vegetables. Most traditional

peoples actually valued the offal rather than the muscle tissue,

simply because they observed that the nutrient value was higher.

 

Btw, as far as I know, the specific injunction against eating the cow

in Hinduism does not preclude one from eating the male animal - just

the female, which makes sense from an economic perspective because

the female provides milk and offspring. As for Ayurveda, the

practice does not debate the ethics of meat-eating, but simply

assesses each food according to its properties, benefits and

contraindications. Although the practical aspects of diet discussed

in Ayurveda relate to what one would find in India, it is clear that

the injunction is that one should fashion the diet with respect to

where you live, the climate and season, and what your ancestors ate.

 

One of the most nourishing foods mentioned in Ayurveda is goat meat,

as it balances all three doshas. For immunocompromised patients I

recommend a recipe that uses goat meat (with bone), chicken stock,

along with onions, garlic, ginger and other spices, in addition to

energy-enhancing foods such as Astragalus, Jujube date, Shatavari,

Ashwagandha and American Ginseng. This can be prepared and slow-

cooked, and eaten 2-3x week to enhance ojas. I have consistently

seen simple interventions like this make a great deal of difference.

This isn't just my own observation either - Ayurveda texts and

practitioners have clearly stated that mamsarasa is the best of all

dravyas to enhance bala and ojas, in addition to avoiding all the

other things that weaken ojas including lack of sleep, excessive sex,

excessive thinking and worry, etc. etc.

 

best wishes...

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: (1)778.896.8894

fax: (1)866.703.2792

 

-

 

> I am suffering from debilitating adrenal fatigue since a crash in

> 2006, this after an ayurvedic doctor mistreated me for several

> months for chronic stress and astma symptoms. I havent been able to

> work since then.

[Guest guest]

Dr.Muzumdar,

 

Kudos and thanks for sharing your knowledge and disproving the general

understanding that Ayurveda-presribes- vegetarian-diet.Perhaps in

present day India which is heavily influenced by the Western lifestyle

and philosopies we tend to brush aside or ignore the remedies you

mentioned. Actually I was watching a programme on TV where a man in a

remote village in India has a taste for live snakes! Personally eating

cow meat is unthinkable not just because of puranic references but as a

love for the domestic animal. I don't feel the need for eating meat and

in America animals are pumped with hormones and all sorts of things.

 

Of course we all know that cows have a special sacred place in Hinduism

and in America I've often seen people mock the beliefs. I usually ask

Americans who love to keep dogs as pets as to why they dont eat dog's

meat. People from Asian countries such as China and Vietnam dogs and

cats are considered delicacies! One thing I would like to mention which

I'm sure you agree is that meat is considered to increase

Rajasic/Tamasic qualities in man ( You're what you eat ? ). Our Hindu

system works on the philosophy that in order to attain moksha one must

follow a sattvic path and thus eating meat was prohibited for those who

want to follow a Sattvic path. Another explanation as to why

vegetarianism is practiced is perhaps because of the Buddhist influence.

Anyways I don't think we Indians need to be apologetic to the world

about not eating cow's meat or meat in general.

 

I have question which is off topic. Is there any Ayurvedic scriptural

reference that talks of Jyotish. I was reading a book written by late BV

Raman ( India's renowned astrologer ) where he mentions that every

Vaidya was supposed to know Jyotish. There even have been mentions of

how each planet controls the various organs of the human body and the

humors. I thought it was interesting and just wanted to know your

opinion.

 

Regards,

Janardan Shastri

____________________

Ayurveda is impartial as to the religious concerns. Ayurvedic texts do

not ban cow's meat either as food or as therapeutic regime.

[Guest guest]

Dear Ole,

Could not get back promptly due to my professional committments

I will quote two main references from Charak Samhita.

1) Go-Khar-Ashwa......Prasaha Mrugapakshinah| - Sutrasthana Chap.27

Verse35-36. This reference pertains to dietary use of Go-mamsa ie cow's meat.

2)Khar-Go-Mahishanam Cha mamsam Mamsakaram Param| - Chikitsasthana Chap.8

Verse 158. This reference pertains to the use of cow-meat in the treatment of

Raj-yakshma (Tuberculosis), when there is cachexia and emaciation ie wasting of

muscular tissue (mamsa dhatu)

 

Besides, horns are used to make bhasma. Hoofs and skin is used to make smoke

(dhuma) in treating diseases like Unmad and Apasmara. Cow-dung and urine are

used in Panchgavya Ghruta, mentioned in the treatment of Apasmara, in Charak

Samhita.

 

There are many more references, but due to want of time, I will limit myself.

Other scholars may take over to do the hunting.

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayurveda-Medicine (Mumbai-India)

< dahpc >

_________________

 

Could you name some references from the

ayurvedic texts about the use of cow tissue ingredients for different

diseases?

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr Muzumdar,

Many thanks for your help in this matter. I have been told that the hindu use

of horns, hoofs and skin should be from animals that have died on their own. But

I guess that meat has to come from healthy slaughtered animals... Does the

Charaka Samhita give any rules for how the animals should be slaughtered? I

still dont understand how the ayurvedic texts can state it is ok to use meat

from slaughtered cows, when it is so strongly prohibited in other hindu texts,

one of the best examples is from the Manu Samhita. But maybe a more careful

study of these texts also reveal there are lawful means when intended to cure

disease?

Many Thanks,

Ole

 

____________________-

<snip>

2)Khar-Go-Mahishanam Cha mamsam Mamsakaram Param| - Chikitsasthana Chap.8 Verse

158. This reference pertains to the use of cow-meat in the treatment of

Raj-yakshma (Tuberculosis), when there is cachexia and emaciation ie wasting of

muscular tissue (mamsa dhatu)

 

Besides, horns are used to make bhasma. Hoofs and skin is used to make smoke

(dhuma) in treating diseases like Unmad and Apasmara. Cow-dung and urine are

used in Panchgavya Ghruta, mentioned in the treatment of Apasmara, in Charak

Samhita.

[Guest guest]

Dear Ole,

As I has mentioned in my earlier mail, Religion has a negligible role to play as

far as Ayurvedic science and it's principles are concerned. Ayurveda is the

science originated in Hindu expanse of land, in the Himalayas and the valleyof

Sindhu (Indus) river. Hence the word Hindu, an aberration of the pronunciation

of word Sindhu. Some of the earlier authors-translators mentioned Ayurveda as

Hindu Systam of Medicine, and so it became a norm to relate Ayurveda with

Hinduism. Ayurveda is a part of AtharvVeda, one of the four basic Vedas. It

includes and encompasses Hinduism, as many of the principles and morals run

parallel. Ayurveda is imbibed in the Indian psyche, and hence the mis-endeavour

of comparing or equating Ayurveda with Hinduism. Ayurveda has always stuck to

it's principles of natural laws and moral principes applicable to human life

processes, irrespective of any religion or other cultures involved

In nutshell, I would say that Ayurveda is non-commital as far as religions ars

concerned.So the mention of cow meat with all the liberal and open-hearted

attitude.

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumda

M.D.Ayurveda-Medicine (Mumbai-India)

[Guest guest]

Janardan,

I have not come across any specific references on Jyotish with reference to

diagnosis and / or treatment in the three main texts of Ayurveda - Charak

Samhita, Sushrut Samhita and Ashtang Sangraha / Hruday (Vagbhat). But Jyotish

was probably applied to find the auspicious time for collection of herbs. For

example, there is a formulation called Pushyanug Choorna. The herbs used in this

formulattion were collected on Pushya nakshatra. Hence the name Pushyanug, given

to the medicine. The other application was done while going for visits to the

patients. If the messenger of the patient called the vaidya on auspicious day,

muhurta or nakshatra; it was believed that the chances for patient recovery and

survival were stronger and vice versa. So a visit during Amavasya (no moom day /

night) was considered bad and likewise.

I think that knowledge about Jyotish was a norm in those days. Just like

Ayurveda, it was a branch of knowledge and according to Sushrut, Vaidya ought to

know many Shastras as it widens the scope of his talent. More-over, in the

medieval period, much of the healing sciences (Ayurveda) in India, was

concentrated in the hands of brahmins, who were doing various religious rituals.

..They started integrating Jyotish with their medicinal work-outs, for reasons

best known to them. And in this way, Ayurveda got associated with therapeutic

and diagnostic Jyotish. But , this is strictly my personal opinion derived from

the study of history. More facts may be discussed, by those interested and

having authority on this topic.

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayurveda-Medicine (Mumbai-India)

[Guest guest]

On 12-Jun-08, at 4:03 AM, ayurveda wrote:

 

> Janardan,

> I have not come across any specific references on Jyotish with

> reference to diagnosis and / or treatment in the three main texts

> of Ayurveda - Charak Samhita, Sushrut Samhita and Ashtang

> Sangraha / Hruday (Vagbhat). But Jyotish was probably applied to

> find the auspicious time for collection of herbs. For example,

> there is a formulation called Pushyanug Choorna. The herbs used in

> this formulattion were collected on Pushya nakshatra. Hence the

> name Pushyanug, given to the medicine. The other application was

> done while going for visits to the patients. If the messenger of

> the patient called the vaidya on auspicious day, muhurta or

> nakshatra; it was believed that the chances for patient recovery

> and survival were stronger and vice versa. So a visit during

> Amavasya (no moom day / night) was considered bad and likewise.

> I think that knowledge about Jyotish was a norm in those days. Just

> like Ayurveda, it was a branch of knowledge and according to

> Sushrut, Vaidya ought to know many Shastras as it widens the scope

> of his talent. More-over, in the medieval period, much of the

> healing sciences (Ayurveda) in India, was concentrated in the hands

> of brahmins, who were doing various religious rituals. .They

> started integrating Jyotish with their medicinal work-outs, for

> reasons best known to them. And in this way, Ayurveda got

> associated with therapeutic and diagnostic Jyotish. But , this is

> strictly my personal opinion derived from the study of history.

> More facts may be discussed, by those interested and having

> authority on this topic.

 

 

Its hard to know what is meant by " jyotish " in ancient India, during

the time of Charak, Sushrut and Vagbhat, when the basic structure of

medieval Indian astrology was unknown. Very likely auspicious times

for gathering herbs were influenced by practical considerations, such

as the season and time of day, with respect to the plant that was

harvested, and the patient to be treated. I am not sure about

Ayurveda per se, but many traditional medical beliefs also included

the influence of the moon as well, which was believed to draw or sap

energy away during the new moon, and give energy during the full.

These types of relationships reflect a grounded connection to the

earth, the sun, the moon and the seasons, which seems to be very much

the concern of the more ancient form of Ayurveda. Of course there

is also detailed information about the various objective (e.g.

physical observation) and subjective (e.g. dreams) factor involved in

assessing the patient, as well as the various signs encountered in

the messenger and/or on the journey to the patient's home - but

nothing I have seen about astrological determinations.

 

Interesting comment about Pushyanug - I thought the formula simply

referred to the word " pushya " which means that which is " best to

nourish " , and doesn't necessarily link it to the nakshatra of the

same name. I wonder how closely this particular belief is followed,

since there are considerable differences between the various Pushya

nakshatra days in a year, and also due to the different types of

plant parts that comprise the formula, such as flowers and roots,

which are typically harvested in different seasons...

Caldecott

 

 

[Guest guest]

I had only replied to the query presented by one of the fellow members with

reference to Jyotish in Ayurveda and I am personally not inclined to pursue this

thread.

Whether all the herbs mentioned in Pushyanug churna are collected on that

nakshatra as intended by the vaidya who invented this formulation or according

to one's one convenience as is done in recent times, can be a matter of debate.

But Pushya nakshatra appears many times round the year and herbs must have been

collected seasonally taking into account Pushya nakshatra. Or the fact may be

that, as the herbs were collected from wild, rather than sourcing thro' harvest

or cultivation, it could have been possible to collect all the herbs

simultaneously.

And even though Jyotish is being used now-a-days, by Ayurvedic Physicians to

supplement their diagnosis or to make health predictions, none of the classical

texts have mentioned it for diagnostic or therapeutic purposes, as I have stated

in my earlier mail. Whether Jyotish was existent in the times of

Charak-Sushrut-Vagbhat, is a matter of historical and literary investigation.

Pushyanug churna is predominently used in gynaecoligical complaints like

leucorrhoea, menorrhagia, metrorrhagia and is not th formulation for

nourishment. The Sanskrit word for nourishment is 'PUSHTI' and not 'PUSHYA'.

 

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayurveda-Medicine (Mumbai-India)

< dahpc >

_____________

Interesting comment about Pushyanug - I thought the formula simply

referred to the word " pushya " which means that which is " best to

nourish " , and doesn't necessarily link it to the nakshatra of the

same name. I wonder how closely this particular belief is followed,

since there are considerable differences between the various Pushya

nakshatra days in a year, and also due to the different types of

plant parts that comprise the formula, such as flowers and roots,

which are typically harvested in different seasons...

[Guest guest]

According to Monier-Williams, " pushya " can mean:

 

puá¹£ya

púṣya n. nourishment (pl.) Car

• the blossom or flower i.e. the uppermost or best of anything (cf.

Gk. [640, 2] ? ; Lat. flos) RV

• (puá¹£yÄ), m. N. of the 6th (or 8th, but See naká¹£atra) lunar

asterism (also called Sidhya and Tishya) AV. & c. & c

• (= -yoga), the conjunction of the moon with Pushya Mn. MBh. & c

• N. of the month Pausha VP

• of the Kali-yuga or fourth age W

• of one of the 24 mythical Buddhas MWB. 136, n. 1

• of various princes VP

• n. N. of a SÄman Ä€rshBr

• (puá¹£yÄÍ), f. a species of plant AV

• the asterism Pushya

 

(if the diacritics don't make it through on you can view this

directly here: http://students.washington.edu/prem/mw/p.html, and

scroll down to find pushya/puá¹£ya)

 

I will agree that the names in Ayurveda don't necessarily make sense

all the time do they? For example, there is no good reason why

Katuka is called such, when it is intensely bitter rather than

pungent. Likewise, I understand that Pushyanug churna isn't rasayana

or balya at all.

Caldecott

todd

www.toddcaldecott.com

 

On 14-Jun-08, at 4:27 AM, ayurveda wrote:

 

> Re: Ayurveda, Disease and animal ingredients

> Posted by: " muzumdar " dahpc dbm2110

> Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:23 am (PDT)

>

> I had only replied to the query presented by one of the fellow

> members with reference to Jyotish in Ayurveda and I am personally

> not inclined to pursue this thread.

> Whether all the herbs mentioned in Pushyanug churna are collected

> on that nakshatra as intended by the vaidya who invented this

> formulation or according to one's one convenience as is done in

> recent times, can be a matter of debate. But Pushya nakshatra

> appears many times round the year and herbs must have been

> collected seasonally taking into account Pushya nakshatra. Or the

> fact may be that, as the herbs were collected from wild, rather

> than sourcing thro' harvest or cultivation, it could have been

> possible to collect all the herbs simultaneously.

> And even though Jyotish is being used now-a-days, by Ayurvedic

> Physicians to supplement their diagnosis or to make health

> predictions, none of the classical texts have mentioned it for

> diagnostic or therapeutic purposes, as I have stated in my earlier

> mail. Whether Jyotish was existent in the times of Charak-Sushrut-

> Vagbhat, is a matter of historical and literary investigation.

> Pushyanug churna is predominently used in gynaecoligical complaints

> like leucorrhoea, menorrhagia, metrorrhagia and is not th

> formulation for nourishment. The Sanskrit word for nourishment is

> 'PUSHTI' and not 'PUSHYA'.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Whether all the herbs mentioned in Pushyanug churna are collected

on that nakshatra as intended by the vaidya who invented this

formulation or according to one's one convenience as is done in

recent times, can be a matter of debate. >

 

The herbs for Pushyanuyug Churna should be collected during Pushya

nakshatra is an interesting info. It will be of interest to know the

original source where pushya nakshatra is connected to pushyanuyug churna. In

the following, we are concerned only with the connection of word pushya to

medicines.

 

The connection between Pushya nakshatra and ability to guide the

students, blossom followers, bringing out the birth of original

knowledge has been hinted at in post#11452. This nakshatra falls in

sign cancer, and the important fact that the Jupiter, the planet

assigned to fertility and healthy growth becomes exalted in the first

quarter of Pushya Nakshatra. The connection of this nakshtra to

peepul tree is also meaningful, as peepul has connection to boosting

fertility. In fact all the trees in that botanical family are

connected to fertility.

 

 

> Pushyanug churna is predominently used in gynaecoligical complaints

like leucorrhoea, menorrhagia, metrorrhagia and is not th formulation

for nourishment. The Sanskrit word for nourishment is 'PUSHTI' and

not 'PUSHYA'.>

 

The Sanskrit-English Dictionary(ISBN 81-208-0567-4) by Vaman Shivram

Apte(1965) reprinted nine times so far, Published by Motilal

Banarasidas Pub. Delhi, gives several meanings of word Pushya. Other

than the nakshatra, name of the month, kaliyuga, the meaning most

relevant to the present discussion is " The blossom " .

 

Another dictionary gives the meaning of word Pushpa as menstrual

discharge.[The students new sanskrit dictionary, DEvasthali, Joshi

and Kulkarni, Dhawale Prakashan, 1936, 11th reprint 2004, Mumbai].

This may explain Pushpadhanva ras to the medicine which nurses the

menstrual discharge. [it is interesting to understand how some indian

pharmacies have boosted potency of this medicine in their

advertisement. Some claim that it enlarges breasts, some claim that

it adds libido...]

 

One more medicine " Nashta Pushyantak Rasa " given in post# 1114 is for

amenorrhea, where the meaning of Pushya as " menstrual blossom " is

clear.

 

Is it possible that all the ingredients of all these medicines

developed maximum potency in Pushya nakshatra? No' it was rather a discreet

connection to fertility, the ability to become mother, which is hidden in Pushya

nakshatra. A new understanding of ayurveda emerges to a serious student and

researcher of astrology. Repeated incidences of diseases/disorders when certain

signs or houses become afflicted increase the faith in medico astrology.

 

Even if medical astrology was later addition, it is meaningful and useful when

patient is at other end of globe.

 

Ancient sage wanted to make the medicine names as meaningful as possible so

that applications/indications are clear to all. Thousands of examples

can be given here.