Many traditional practices are not in the Samhitas

[Guest guest]

Linseed has been used for food and other utilitarian purposes in India

since ancient times. I once ate Dhokla, made from flax, at an Ashram

in Gujarat, I do not know how they prepared it but somehow it did not

have the bitter taste that I do not like in flax seed. Flax in

Gujarati is Alasi Tail, here in Kerala it is called Cherruchana Vithu.

 

It would not be correct to think that one can find most Ayurvedic

references translated into English. A very small percentage of the

vast body of literature concerning Ayurveda, food science, Yoga, and

folk medicine has been translated into English. Every Indian language

modern and ancient has it's own literature, including dozens of

commentaries on the classics.

 

In the last few days I have been discussing the Namboothiri tradition

in Kerala and it's influence on the development of modern Ayurvedic

practice, with Dr Kumar. He was telling me about the important work

that has been done by the Ashtavaidyans represented by the

Vaidyamadham and Mooss families. A great deal of what is called Kerala

style of Ayurveda has come from the Ashtavaidyans. These families have

created a whole new style of medical practice which is greatly

respected, and this work has been extensively written about, in

Malayalam and Sanskrit, almost none of it has been translated into

English, although to truly understand modern Kerala medical practice

it would be necessary to read this work. One example is that of

Ashtavaidyan Vaidyamadham Cheriya Narayanan Namboodiri who has been an

important influence in modern practice, he has written many essays on

Ayurveda, one important work is his collection of essays " Ayurvedavum

Deerghayussam " . He also wrote " Ayurvedathinte Prathama Padhangal " .

Vaidyaratnam P.S. Varier also left a great legacy in his teachings and

writings. So many others have contributed, plus there is a cultural

context and unwritten tradition which is unknown to western students.

It is a great limitation for us and is a major reason why many western

students find themselves at a loss to understand many of the

differences in Ayurvedic theory and practice. This is just reffering

to Ayurvedic medical practice and does not take into account the many

traditions in Yoga and other schools of thought that are based on

Ayurvedic principles, which also have their literature, most of which

has not been translated into English. Also, much of traditional

practice has never been put down on paper, it is simply handed down

from generation to generation, and some of it is kept secret and

carefully guarded.

 

For these reasons it does not make sense to always ask for references.

One has to understand the context of Ayurveda then the details can be

interpreted without references. This is why most experts like Dr.

Muzumdar insist on the Sanskrit context, because he understands that

if the Sanskrit context is the true reference, then there can be a

dialog on the infinite details which were not elaborated in the

Samhitas. This becomes very important when using another medical

terminolgy like western scientific or TCM, etc. Dr Muzumdar mentions

this today in a post.

 

Not everything in tradition in India is contained in the Samhitas. The

Samhitas are an exposition of the essence of Ayurveda with particular

references to certain medicines and therapies. I am sure that even in

Charak's time there were other methods and drugs known that could be

used to obtain the same results. Just as in modern practice there are

many medicines and practices used in different places, each practioner

may have their own personal approachs. Here in Kerala many of the

great scholars of the Samhitas have developed their own practices to

achieve the goals. The Ashtavaidyans as an example have developed many

new highly effective therapies and medicines, that were not mentioned

in the Samhitas. They have in no way contradicted or rejected the

Samhitas, most of them are reknown Sanskrit authorities in the

Samhitas, their practices are versions of Samhitic principles. In the

past, present, and the future the principles of Ayurveda have and will

be interpreted into different cultural, historical, and geographical

contexts. This is very easy to understand since in the past medicine

was practiced in isolated environments, and different herbs, etc. were

available according to geography, climate, and local traditions. The

depth and richness of Ayurvedic practice today is much greater than

described in the Samhitas, this no doubt was true even in those days.

 

The principles of Ayurveda are simple descriptions of reality and

therefore will never change. But view points about those principles

might be seen differently by different observers. Example, Yogis like

Dr. Kumar think that the principles of Ayurveda are in reality the

framework for a science of life and one should apply these principles

to ones day to day life, so as to achieve health, vitality, long life,

and spiritual awakening. So in this vision Ayurveda is a medical

system for helping others heal from disease but it is also a science

of living which should be applied by all to their own lives. He said

this morning, " If we live according to the principles of Ayurveda and

raise our children according to these principles, we and they will

only on rare occasions need doctors " . Medical science and practice is

not just a profession it is also a form of Karma Yoga, when practiced

properly, a service to humanity, the true Ashtavaidyans here in Kerala

live Ayurveda, they do not just administer it to others.

 

Liz

 

 

 

What Ayurveda references can I find this information in?

[Guest guest]

the bitterness you taste was probably related to rancidity...

______________________________

 

I once ate Dhokla, made from flax, at an Ashram

in Gujarat, I do not know how they prepared it but somehow it did not

have the bitter taste that I do not like in flax seed.

[Guest guest]

>

> this morning, " If we live according to the principles of Ayurveda and

> raise our children according to these principles, we and they will

> only on rare occasions need doctors " . Medical science and practice is

> not just a profession it is also a form of Karma Yoga, when practiced

> properly, a service to humanity, the true Ashtavaidyans here in Kerala

> live Ayurveda, they do not just administer it to others.

 

Hi Liz,

 

I am not sure this is a unique view. In fact, it seems pretty much

the point of Ayurveda, and is mentioned very clearly in texts such as

the Ashtanga Hrdaya:

 

aayuh-kaamayamaanena dharmaartha-sukha-saadhanam

aayur-vedopadesesu vidheyah param aadarah

 

" persons who desire long life, which is the means for achieving

dharma, artha and sukha should repose the utmost faith in the

teachings of Ayurveda "

 

The problem is, that much of what comprises Ayurveda, at least with

regard to its exposition and traditions, relates distinctly to India

and Indian culture. I find it a continual source of irony that some

will steadfastly insist upon the usage of Indian herbs or Ayurvedic

practices suited to India in a non-Indian context, essentially

confounding the basic principles of the medicine. For example, I

find it problematic that practices which have nothing to do with

Ayurveda per se are made to be part and parcel of the practice, i.e.

vegetarianism, predictive astrology and heavy metals. This is not to

say that these don't have merit or are 'wrong', but since they aren't

mentioned by the samhitas as being a component of Ayurveda there is

no reason why all should be made to support these practices as an

intrinsic part of Ayurveda. It may be an irrelevant point for those

who believe in such things, but since I do not or have serious

questions, and yet have enormous confidence in the principles of

Ayurveda, it remains worthy one for me.

 

When we consider the nature of healing, I like to use music as an

example. What we call music is really only a small selection of

sounds drawn from an infinite spectrum of vibrations. In one

cultural context, certain musical sounds are defined as pleasing,

whereas in another these sounds are perceived as a kind of

cacophony. In some cases, there is musical sympathy across genres,

for example, both Indian and Western music employ the major or

pentatonic scales, but in other cultures, the entire concept of

scales and octaves are unknown and sound foreign. In India, there is

clearly much sympathy for its classical tradition, for the particular

sounds and aesthetic that it employs, and all of the meaningful

symbology and intent behind its principles and structure. But this

isn't the only kind of music on the planet. Even with the

sophistication of the melakartaraga system of Carnatic music, it

still only describes a limited spectrum of sounds and relationships

between sounds. It lacks many other qualities such as harmony and

counterpoint that have been explored by other cultures. One may

believe that Indian classical music is the best, is the most

significant, but apart from this belief, there is nothing inherent to

it that defines itself as more important than any other musical

form. It is a deeply spiritual music, and I respect it enormously -

for me, there are few musical forms that touch the soul as deeply.

My esteem for Indian classical music is further boosted when I

consider that musical concepts probably arose in large part from the

spread of Vedic culture westward - but look how the music has

spread! An entire new world in sound was created, all on the same

basic musical principles. Transcendent music. In this way, Ayurveda

blossoms forth.

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: (1)778.896.8894

fax: (1)866.703.2792

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

what a great phrase! Patti

 

 

Patti Garland

Ayurvedic Chef

Bliss Kitchen

http://www.BlissKitchen.com

(760) 238-6451

 

 

 

 

On Apr 23, 2008, at 4:29 PM, Todd Caldecott wrote:

 

Ayurveda

blossoms forth

[Guest guest]

I would like to add that Maharashtra, Gujarat, Rajasthan have also great

heritages (Parampara), but have not recieved publicity like the Kerala vaidyas.

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayurved-medicine(Mumbai-India)

[Guest guest]

ayurveda , Todd Caldecott <todd

wrote:

> I find it a continual source of irony that some

> will steadfastly insist upon the usage of Indian herbs or

Ayurvedic

> practices suited to India in a non-Indian context, essentially

> confounding the basic principles of the medicine. For example, I

> find it problematic that practices which have nothing to do with

> Ayurveda per se are made to be part and parcel of the practice,

i.e.

> vegetarianism, predictive astrology and heavy metals.

 

The ayurveda is not restricted to simply Brihatrayi(Charaka, Sushuta

samhita and Ashtanga Rhidaya) or a particular school. There are

controversial points between Charaka and Sushruta, which the

advocates of restricting ayurveda to just Brihatrayi never mention.

Actually in your own words, " Ayurveda Blossoms " . This phrase this

author also liked very much!

 

As others pointed out, Ras-Shastra was later additons. And the

maximum additions to ayurvedic practice has been by many many

relatively less known Vaidyas, especially in the field of herbal

medicines, their formulations and procedures aimed at shodhana.

Several such medicines made by traditional vaidyas are being

provided to thousands without disclosing the contents, and people

are crowding the queue since benifits are there. For instance fish

medicine fropm Hyderabad. Who bothers about research to find

chemical contents and drug trials? Can Indian villagers sponsor such

events? Insisting on drug trials on century old formulations is

ridiculous, since ayurveda's spirit is not one standard formulation

to thousands. If such a thing is going on, (e.g. Hyderabad fish

medicine), there the success is not 100%, but majority benifits to a

variable percentage. Same thing could be said about Chandrakala

Netranjan and many other Panchgavya medicines, being in use for last

15 years. The increasing demand without any advertisement is itself a

successful drug trial without being called by that title.

 

The search for medicines has gone beyond the published books on

ayurveda and local

population/healers know proper medicines for several ailments, as

posted in Pankaj Oudhia's work e.g.

http://ecoport.org/ep?SearchType=earticleView & earticleId=3077 & page=-2

 

One should not lose sight of recent additions of breathing techniques

whose success is now well known all over world. Some advanced

techniques which were taught only in presence, have been also taught

by several and patients have been benifitted beyond the expectation

of patient and Vaidya both.

 

The time of Charaka and Sushruta was different, when environment was

not so much polluted by toxic material and cell membranes were not

caked up to make entry of herbal medicine molecules difficult. When

most authentic medicines made by reputed vaidya/pharma stop working,

should one blame ayurveda or perception of ayurveda by vaidya? Too

much stress on just one samhita blinds a vaidya to other good

development in neighbouring countries in both east and west. Vaidya

also have to learn new things. To cite an example, after trying all

traditional approaches of samhitas, trying all panchkarma

innovations, in one PCOS case, author tried light pressure on marma

points twice a day for 10 days and the patient's menstryual cycles

regularised to 100%. Weight loss by about 8% occured as unintentional

bonus!

 

Despite the opinion expressed that Maharashtra, Rajastan and Gujarat

have rich heritage of ayurvedic practice, the distinct differences

between the panchkarma techniques, especially marma massage in Kerala

remains a point in favour of Kerala. Due to the history in last 200

years, Ayurveda was not as much suppressed in Kerala as in other

states.

 

Much of the sharp knowledge of ayurveda is obtained not by reading

some books, but follwoing a disciplined lifestyle. What to include in

the lifestyle (Yoga, Pranayama, Meditation, Mantras, Vegetarianism)

is an individual choice. And the benifits of these factors can be

understood only by self experiences only. Such factors were later

patches to ayurvedic philosophy, but remain an important contribution

of Indians, which now rest of the world accepts.

 

This is not to

> say that these don't have merit or are 'wrong', but since they

aren't

> mentioned by the samhitas as being a component of Ayurveda there

is

> no reason why all should be made to support these practices as an

> intrinsic part of Ayurveda.

 

Nobody has included any such practices in Samhitas. These are only

views, after obtaining benifits, people would like others to know

about it. Yoga, medidtation, mantras etc was brought to west by

Indians. It is eastern influence that west is slowly accepting, after

realizing that material life can give only temporary pleasure, the

bliss is in knowing who we are.

[Guest guest]

In message# 11837, methi laddu receipe was described as a winter rasayana to

combat Vata pains as well as the tonic for new moms.

 

While standard texts on ayurveda deal with working of human body and

diseases, the detailed medicine preparations are left to many other

texts, e.g. Yog Ratnakakar, Ras Shastra texts etc.

 

It is really impressive to note how many herbs are combined to

obtain the final products wherein one herb kills the toxicity of other

while enahncing the medical benifits.

 

In this connection, it is interesting to note that this Methi Laddu for

diabtes itself has more than 20 different receipes and what it demands

for growing special methi as a medicine.

 

http://ecoport.org/ep?SearchType=earticleView & earticleId=3084 & page=-2

 

The bitterness in a herb is not necessarily toxicity or rancidity. The

milk from a specific region can have more lactose, if the area itself

has rich agriculturally fertilie soil. e.g. those in Mumbai can compare

milk coming from Northern maharashtra (Nasik, Chalisgaon) with that

from Kolhapur.

 

_

 

Linseed has been used for food and other utilitarian purposes in India

since ancient times. I once ate Dhokla, made from flax, at an Ashram

in Gujarat, I do not know how they prepared it but somehow it did not

have the bitter taste that I do not like in flax seed.

[Guest guest]

that i agree to wholeheartedly. kerala's popularity is due to its promotion

and advertising but doesn't mean the hertiage is not strong in other places.

especially from travels in India.

 

namaskar,

 

 

__________

 

Raja Gursahani

(: 559.474.8576

,: rajagursahani

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> I am not sure this is a unique view. In fact, it seems pretty much

> the point of Ayurveda, and is mentioned very clearly in texts such as

> the Ashtanga Hrdaya:

>

> aayuh-kaamayamaanena dharmaartha-sukha-saadhanam

> aayur-vedopadesesu vidheyah param aadarah

>

> " persons who desire long life, which is the means for achieving

> dharma, artha and sukha should repose the utmost faith in the

> teachings of Ayurveda "

 

 

 

I don't think Dr Kumar was trying to state something new he was

stating the often ignored obvious. Human beings have understood the

nature of what constitutes health and disease for thousands of years

yet the world is full of physical, mental, and spiritual suffering.

One constantly reads and hears individuals state their fear and

confusion about theirs or their loved ones disease. I often surf

around in the Internet and become aware of the thousands of sites that

are trying to make sense out of the great mysteries of disease and

suffering. Yet all of the basics issues have been resolved long ago.

 

In clinical practice, a large percentage of patients do not understand

the role they have played in creating their own disease and the

responsibility they have in recovery. It is not just the patients it

is also the physicians and healers, a large percentage of whom live

the same lifestyles as their patients and suffer the same diseases. I

have known way to many physicians who are experts in various aspects

of medical theory and therapy, who when confronted with their own

diseases or the diseases of their family members go straight for the

medicine bottles. It never enters their minds to examine their disease

forming life patterns; much less do they attempt to correct them.

 

How many people does one meet who live a toxic life and who are

suffering the consequences of doing that? Yet, when attempting to deal

with these consequences it never enters many of these people's minds

to stop their toxic practices and take up health forming practices,

instead they look to medicines, surgery, and therapeutics, while

blindly continuing along the disease forming path. I can not say how

many times patients have told me that they have gone to this or that

physician or famous healing center, and did not get the results they

expected, never once taking into account the fact that they left those

physicians and centers going back to the lifestyle that was the cause

of their disease in the first place. A simple and obvious example; how

can we balance Doshas if we eat in such a way as to constantly

imbalance Doshas. Taking anti Pitta medicines and therapeutics while

daily taking Pitta forming foods, beverages, and conducting Pitta

forming activities? Many never even think about this, and if they do

they do nothing about it and then they blame it on the doctor,

Ayurveda, or on their bad fate.

 

I met a patient recently and her daughter told me that her mother

drinks 15 cups of sweet milk tea a day. This patient is a nervous

wreck, has innumerable symptoms, and is constantly running around to

doctors and clinics hoping for some kind of relief. How much would she

be able to help herself if she just stopped this irrational habit of

taking excess stimulating, astringent, sweet, and Ama forming

qualities? No doubt tea drinking is just one small part of her many

bad habits. What power does medicine or therapeutics have in the face

of these types of obvious erroneous habit patterns? Somehow, someway,

the disease forming patterns have to be broken, otherwise what chance

for recovery is there?

 

Liz