Guest guest Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Dear members, Has anyone experienced or have knowledge of ashwagandha having or potentially having negative interactions with SSRI or Benzodiapenes such as Ativan. Also, with St. Johns Wort? Thank you very much for your help. Respectfully, Preston Foell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Dear Preston It is my opinion that comparison of effects of Ashwagandha with SSRI and Benzodiazepine will not be possible unless we know that which alkaloids in the Ashwagandha acts on brain and at/on which receptors. I think Ayurveda has its own line of thinking and modern medicine has its own. They have basic differences with their own principals. The mixing of both will be more harmful to both of them. Hence Ashwagandha should be used as per the guidelines of Ayurveda and Benzodiazepine as per modern pharmacology. Both medicines can be used simultaneously if found beneficial. Vaidya Upadhye http://www.astroayurvedalogy.com http://www.astrotreat.blogspot.com ___________________________ Has anyone experienced or have knowledge of ashwagandha having or potentially having negative interactions with SSRI or Benzodiapenes such as Ativan. Also, with St. Johns Wort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 dear Ajeya i agree that both systems probably should not be combined, but there is also the other argument that both systems can also compliment one another not enough research has been done along these lines, unfortunately in the case of Ashwagandha, there is data to suggest it has a GABA- mimetic activity, and thus possible interaction with barbituates and benzodiazepines, much like other GABA-mimetic herbs like Valerian i have a fairly thorough monograph on Ashwagandha here: http:// www.toddcaldecott.com/ashwagandha.html which discuss potential toxicity and contraindications the fact of the matter is that most herbal-drug interactions remain hypothetical, but our guiding principle should be " at the least, do no harm " one recent text that is receiving kudos for its evidence-based focus is: http://us.elsevierhealth.com/product.jsp?isbn=9780323029643 Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG) Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com ____________ > I think Ayurveda has its own line of thinking and modern medicine > has its own. They have basic differences with their own principals. > The mixing of both will be more harmful to both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Dear Dr Todd It is my personal view that when we are thinking about Benzodiazepine or any specific Allopathic drug then we should follow Physiology, Pathology, Medicine and Pharmacology of Allopathy and when we are going to use Ashwagandha then we should use the same path dictated by Ayurveda. Ayurvedic practitioner should advice Ayurvedic medicines and Allopathic practitioner should advice Allopathic medicine. When Allopathic practioner wish to use Ashwagandha then he should see active ingredients of Ashwagandha, its absorption, plasma half life, excretion, site of action, indication and contraindication, adverse effects as per the line of thinking of Allopathy. You will agree with me that Ayurveda is not only a material medica. It is a full science. Hence combination of both treatments should be done by two separate experts of the respective sciences. I think this way patient will get more benefits and less harm. Vaidya Upadhye _ i agree that both systems probably should not be combined, but there is also the other argument that both systems can also compliment one another not enough research has been done along these lines, unfortunately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 >Hence combination of both treatments should be done by two separate experts of the respective sciences. I think this way patient will get more benefits and less harm.< There are some past postings where such a combination proved negative for the patient, when patient, allopoathic doctor and patients environments was considered togetther. On the other hand, based on experience with a number of patients taking anti-hypertensives, anti-depressants, anti-convulstants, etc author would say that gradual withdrawl of allopathic drugs, as decided by ayurvedist(after studying the effects of such action on central nervous system, pulse, hunger, digestion, elimination etc) author was able to wean the patients away from synthetic drugs as well as intoxicants such as nicotine, alcohol. Posts on anti-depressants exist in archives, which may be read by everyone concerned. Most glaring difference between allopathy and ayurveda is lack of " chemistry " thinking in ayurveda. the net effect on the body of each herb and other susbtsances is studied and not individual componenets. Often, though all ayurvedic parameters (Prabhava, Guna, Veerya etc) are same, herbs differ in their actions, which vaidya has to add to his book of experience. Combine this with effect as determined by calendar, region etc. which science has so many factors combined? If ayurveda is complete science, it should not need the crutches, even to manage emergency situations. If there are any messages on this list where an ayurvedist recommens sending some one to cadiologist, skin specialist, psychiatrist etc then perhaps he needs to add more devotion and spiritual insight to his arsenal of knowledge. Once one develops his insight to see every herb as living herb, having spiritual energies given to it by its environment rather than a compound having certain chemicals, miraculously simple cures emerge on for complex diseases. Few examples such as Tulsi for depression, turmeric for cancer should suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 hi Shirirsh and Ajaye, I agree that Ayurveda and other traditional systems of medicine have a lot to offer when we work within their modality. One important issue I have is when these practices are reduced to an analysis of just the materia medica, forgetting that the most important thing is the _system_ behind their use. This is a big problem in clinical research, when using methods such as the double-blind placebo controlled trial. My argument is that while this type of study may be legitimate for modern medicine, where a " one size fits all " approach is used, holistic practitioners don't prescribe the same thing to all patients, even in specific patient sub-groups. I am thinking that the only valid comparison would be to take a population of patients to a walk-in clinic and randomly select them to receive medical care or alternative care, and then compare the outcomes. Of course, the medicos would never allow it, ostensibly because it would compromise their " ethics " , but I think they would be very afraid, especially if the outcomes were no worse or better than conventional treatment. The argument that " unproven " alternative treatments might be dangerous and therefore unethical doesn't hold much water when we consider that a great deal of the population already uses herbs and natural remedies, with comparatively fewer side effects than modern medicine (even when factoring in a relative lack of adverse effects reporting). I do want to stress however, that when it comes to emergency medicine there really isn't any system of traditional medical that can hold a candle to modern medicine. Considering the sheer volume of people whose lives are saved by first aid, paramedical and emergency medical treatment, it would be totally irrational to chose an alternative method that does not have the same degree of precision or speed of action, both of which are crucial to saving lives. Look at cardiopulmonary resuscitation - in thousands of years of medicine, nobody came up with this treatment (although with much less CVD, there was probably less need!). Sometimes looking for the holistic answer isn't always appropriate. I don't think that when it comes to saving lives we should necessarily be beholden to a particular philosophy. Certainly there are legitimate alternative forms of first aid (for eg. aloe for burns, ephedra for anaphylaxis), but we should be clear to see if there is a net benefit before even thinking about rejecting emergency care. In our human history, while we suffered from less chronic disease, our ancient and recent ancestors died more often because of a failure to effectively treatment traumatic injuries and infections, all over the world. It was the recurrent epidemics of bubonic plague and syphilis that stimulated the development of modern medicine. In India, a foreign herb (Smilax chinensis) was chosen to deal with the syphilis brought by the Portuguese. It took vaidyas thinking " outside the box " to deal with syphilis, and so we shouldn't reject anything because it is unfamiliar, including emergency medical treatment. Some day, a good emergency practitioner might be able to combine conventional and holistic modalities into the most effective form of treatment. So I don't think we should shy away from integration, but there needs to be more respect for holistic knowledge than there currently is. best.... Caldecott www.toddcaldecott.com _____ > If ayurveda is complete science, it should not need the crutches, > even to manage emergency situations........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Dear Dr Todd At present for emergencies moder medicine is the only answer. But I do not think it is the only answer. Because if we think about medicines in 18th century or before that then one question always props up in mind is that if in a situation of emergency in ancient time whether patients were succumbing due to unavailability of medicines ? Definitely not. But today we do not have that type of medicines [ Matra kalpa] to tackle emergency effectively. As I know Matra kalpas are very tricky to manufacture. It is the requirement of the Ayurveda to evaluate Matra kalpa by eminent group of Vaidya and if it is necessary then experts from Moder Medicines should called for help. Another point to discuss is Research Methods applied through out the world. Though these methods are accepted through out the world they do have there own short coming. In this scenario I would like to emphasis about the method applied by ancient Stalwarts of Ayurveda to know about the usage of herbs and medicinal properties of metals. What they have discovered thousands of years back is proving today also. But there are many things which we have discovered 50-100 years back is being discarded by new concepts. My point is that there should be a research on the research methodology of ancient Ayurvedic Science. Because in my view the method used by stalwarts of Ayurveda is full proof. Vaidya Upadhye http://www.astroayurvedalogy.com http://www.astrotreat.blogspot.com ______________ I do want to stress however, that when it comes to emergency medicine there really isn't any system of traditional medical that can hold a candle to modern medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Dear Preston; One of my mentors and colleagues, Dr. Saraswati Buhrman (among many others I know of, but her practice is better known to me on this) uses ashwagandha among other herbs very successfully alongside SSRI medications while the patient, after 1 month of using both, gradually starts to reduce their dose of the allopathic. I do not know how long she takes for this, and am concerned that a good 6 months is probably needed unless perhaps client uses panchakarma and other deeper ama removing techniques along with whatever else is needed, over this time. But the point to your question is that Saraswati has long term experience with many clients using this (in combination with) other herbs. You can contact her through the Rocky Mountain INstitute of Yoga and Ayurveda in Boulder, Colorado (rmiya.org) where she teaches. She is published on subject of antidepressants and Ayurvedic use. About benzodiapenes, I know nothing. Warm REgards; Ysha __________ > Has anyone experienced or have knowledge of ashwagandha having or > potentially having negative interactions with SSRI or Benzodiapenes > such as Ativan. Also, with St. Johns Wort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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