Please advise

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I am suffering from Premature Ejaculation problem since 5 yrs & cannot

hold more than a second. I had taken Kaminivindravan Ras for the

treatment but of no use. As per prescription of a ayurvedic doctor now

i am taking Neo tablets three times daily. Along with that i am also

using Sri Gopal Taila. Hence i would like to know whether the

prescribed medicine now i am taking is enough or is there any other

medicine to cure the same. I would appreciate if anyone in the group

address my problem.

 

Regards,

Ramesh

[Guest guest]

Till last century opium was the choice.

Try some yoga techniques like moola bandana

shrinking anus and holding in that position will help

It is exercise try for few months

try sprays that reduce sensation.

woman on top position will benefit .fully relax your

body, divert your thoughts don't wink your eye lids

and concentrate holding sperm.

R.Vidhyasagar.

________________________________

I am suffering from Premature Ejaculation problem

since 5 yrs & cannot

hold more than a second. I had taken Kaminivindravan

Ras for the

treatment but of no use.

[Guest guest]

daruharidra (root), atmagupta

sirsasana

 

 

________________________________

I am suffering from Premature Ejaculation problem since 5 yrs & cannot

hold more than a second.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friend

One thing you must know that your mind plays vital role for erection

and ejaculation. First if you are masturbating then stop doing so.

Masturbation will increase sensitivity of penile skin.

In Ayurveda Vanga(sometimes spelled as Banga) bhasma is advocated for premature

ejaculaton.

You could start Vanga Bhasma 60 mg twice a day esp. before lunch and

dinner with honey.

visit www.astroayurveda.blogspot.com

______

I am suffering from Premature Ejaculation problem since 5 yrs &

cannot hold more than a second.

[Guest guest]

The Chinese teach that pressure applied behind the base of the penis will

stop ejaculation ........

 

Jane

> ______

> I am suffering from Premature Ejaculation problem since 5 yrs &

> cannot hold more than a second.

>

[Guest guest]

Pls take one teaspoon of cinnamon powder and honey in warm milk daily

at night before going to sleep.

______________________

I am suffering from Premature Ejaculation problem since 5 yrs &

cannot

hold more than a second.

[Guest guest]

Hello Vaidya Upadhye

 

You say, " First if you are masturbating then stop doing so. "

 

I dont undertstand the basis of this (archaic and orthodox) advise from a

medical professional.

 

Please read " Solitary Sex: A Cultural History of Masturbation " , Thomas Laquaeur

(University of Berkely), Zone Books. Also you should read " Human Zoo " by Desmond

Moris and " What's Love Got to Do With It: The Evolution of Human Mating " by

Meredith F. Small.

 

Regards

 

Rajeev Upadhye

www.yuyutsu.biz

_______________________________

One thing you must know that your mind plays vital role for erection

and ejaculation. First if you are masturbating then stop doing so.

[Guest guest]

Rajeev,

 

There are 2 different distinct view-points on masturbation: the traditional

which says " minimize or avoid " , the contemporary which says " do as you will "

(generalizing greatly here).

 

Both schools of thought have their merits. What needs to be considered is the

person's state of existence at that point in time. A more spiritually inclined

person is more apt to take the traditional view. The reason for this has to do

with the release of energies from the chakras that is involved in the act of

sex. Masturbation or sexual stimulation in general titilate the muladhara

chakras. Another place you can see this imagery is in the denouncement of

modern " rock/club " music. The music that is harsh destroys energy (school of

thought both traditional, contemporary and modern) and the music that's more

full of bass gives rise to the base-energies that are associated with the lower

chakras of the body, which in turn release your lower desires.

 

Understand that " lower " or " higher " do not equal " Good " and " Bad " Lower isn't

bad, and higher isn't necessarily good (Though it works out that way in a

majority cases). Lower energies draw us into the material and physical realm

and require higher output of creative energies in physical ways, this leads to

us feeling more " spent " .. drained of creative energy if not chanelled properly.

The underlying fear often is that the base energies when encouraged will not

have enough of a creative outlet and hence leads to the disruptive actions for a

person including malvolent behavior and indulgent habits. Higher energies draw

us upto the intellect and above-intellect energy sources and the concious rather

than the body are the controlling centers.

 

But I digress. Coming back to masturbation, modern science is still incomplete

on this subject and making new research in this area of much debate. Certainly

bottling up that energy can be destructive, as is true for any energy. Hence

" Do not masturbate " isn't exactly the right form-of-communication. It doesn't

offer any understanding of what else to do or how to change the state of

energies in the body. Pent-up energy in that form can be like static-energy

which can cause sparks to dissipate. Instead of having a big bang to dissipate

the energy, those that are spiritually inclined can dissipate it gently instead,

turning it into a different kind of energy. However the preachers of " DO NO

MASTURBATE " seldom know why they are saying, often they may themselves be

indulging in the same, and usually do not know how to help someone that is in a

different place from where they are ('just because i can do it, you should do it

too..' syndrome). If

there's no clear direction of how to goto a path where self-control is

self-sufficient, not masturbating and yet wallowing in that space would be

harmful to that person leading to fantasies and energy outbursts as anger,

dissatisfaction, attention-disorders, etc.

 

This understanding is a very big change as the life-styles in our society have

changed greatly. Now one can argue that we should lead a certain lifestyle,

however that is in itself a whole different discussion.

 

Hope this helps.

____________________________

 

" First if you are masturbating then stop doing so. "

I dont undertstand the basis of this (archaic and orthodox) advise from a

medical professional.

[Guest guest]

Hello PS:

 

Well explained! Though I am not sure if I agree with your statement

that both the schools of thought have their merits. Other than from

the yogic viewpoint of chakras, Ayurveda confirms that when you loose

semen, your bodily strength goes down as well because the level

of " ojas " goes down in your body. Ojas is responsible for our

physical and mental strength. It is a fact that those who masturbate

frequently in their younghood, typically have a poor health

afterwards while other factors remain the same (for example: if you

do not suddenly take up Kundalini yoga afterwards).

 

Akin to many Ayurvedic concepts, a concept like Ojas which cannot be

physically materialized can be difficult to understand from a western

science perspective. Western science is far behind and will take a

long time before it appreciates the spiritual nature of things. So,

it is not a matter of a different perspective, but rather that the

modern science is still in its infancy. To get to the knowledge that

was passed to us from God through the enlightened beings such as

Rishis, Yogis, etc., in an experimental hit-and-trial way will indeed

take a long long time.

 

Having said that I agree that those who do not know how to use the

bottled up energy should not try to contain it forcibly, which is

different than saying that " It is a normal biological function to

waste semen as it is replenished shortly anyway " .

 

Btw, you said in your post:

" Instead of having a big bang to dissipate the energy, those that are

spiritually inclined can dissipate it gently instead, turning it into

a different kind of energy. "

 

Could you please elaborate on ways to turn that energy into a

different kind of energy?

 

Thanks,

Matt

 

________________________________

Both schools of thought have their merits. What needs to be

considered is the person's state of existence at that point in time.

A more spiritually inclined person is more apt to take the

traditional view. The reason for this has to do with the release of

energies from the chakras that is involved in the act of sex.

[Guest guest]

Urinate and defecate in " crow pose " all the time. Sit in a crouched

position when going to to toilet.This lines up the excretory organs

and also puts a pressure on the prostate to stimulate it. Also, stop

and start the urine flow 8 times each time you visit the toilet.

These same procedures will help women (and men) who have leaky

bladders or female problems.

 

GB

 

_______________________

The Chinese teach that pressure applied behind the base of the

penis will

stop ejaculation ........

[Guest guest]

Hi Matt,

 

There really are two schools of thought on this. I call them the traditional

versus contemporary, but it could be better termed as you have as Ayurvedic vs

Western medicine. Western medicine has no concept of Ojas and that is a primary

distinguisher.

 

There really is no statistical data that shows that early masturbaters are

weaker in physical and mental constitution. Ayurved has claims to that, but I

don't see any truth in that yet. Case in point is that I was a very early

masturbater, straight-A student, in very good shape and considered higher on the

looks scale. I know many in this category in India, UK, USA and else-where.

That is a statement that has perplexed me as there's no way to say whether I'd

be more mentally/physically capable if I hadn't done that/don't do it and so on.

But I don't come from a medical profession (my knowledge comes from my mother's

deep ingrained interest in the subject and my own inquiry).

 

To answer your question: how to change the sexual energy into a different (more

creative) type, here are my observations/learnings:

 

1. We tend to be less sexual at times of intense labor / concentration intensive

tasks: Think of those days when you are exceedingly busy. You have to start

the day exremely early due to meetings/errands/commitments and have something

going on all the time till late evening, and you are spent, but satisfied at

having a busy day. At this time, masturbation and sex are far from the mind and

you come home exhausted, ready to goto bed or watch TV and relax and then sleep.

That is the first form of creative control.

 

There are 2 kinds of people broadly: mind-workers and body-workers. Mind

workers are the intellectuals/white-collared workers, that don't work a lot

physically and tend to stay in the mind more. Body-workers are those that are

indulged more in physical labor, floor-workers, etc.

 

Mind-workers: The mind tends to wander towards sex, because sex is an outlet to

creative energy. It procreates. When the mind doesn't have enough stimulation

it wanders into fantasy of its own, or indulges in fantasizing through

women/men-watching, creating lust, watching TV, porn, internet pictures, etc.

Again, I am neither condemning this, nor calling this " BAD " as most people do,

since its not bad... its just a way the mind works. Thinking bout it this way

is an easier perspective than a condemning one, since now you come in control,

rather than a fear to be bad. That old approach of condemnation doesn't work

longterm, it inspires fear, which... non-surprisingly, leads to more

law-breaking. For the mind-workers, its good practice to have a physical

routine that will snap them out of mindful fantasy. The sexual

act/masturbation/etc, are at that time indicaters to bring the mind to the body

connection. So including a physical routine such as an

hour of yoga, or 30 mins of walking/running or a workout at the gym will get

you out of that mode and into the physical. Mind you, if you are going to be at

a gym, don't make it a narcissistic exercise where you get engrossed in how good

your body looks as that too becomes lust inspiring funny.. all the traps.

 

Body-workers: For those that are less mindful but more physically oriented, sex

is a way to connect with the mind. Such individuals to better if they can set

aside a little time to connect with their mindful creative spirit. Reading a

good book on their favorite hobby, biographies, meditating, solving a puzzle,

etc for 35-- hour daily will help these individuals channel this other energy in

a creative way.

 

2. Pranayam and mindfulness: now I'll sound like an old harp, but pranayams

WORK. If you are caught in any habit.... not just masturbation, eg:

overeating, being lazy, etc. Then pranayams bring your attention gently to your

body AND mind in one swoop and take you towards a corrective path automatically,

ie. you don't even have to understand how it works, the subconcious already

knows and you tap into it to guide you. Of course this means that you need to

learn self-awareness, because as you indulge in pranayams, the body becomes

aware of its needs and that means the external behavior changes. For this to

happen you have to recognize the change. Eg; you are about to eat a sweet, and

your body says " no " you should learn that signal and then not eat it. and so

on.

 

3. For sex specific: there are several simple exercises --- forceful breathing,

washing your feet/below knees with cold water before going to bed, a nice

massage (if you can't find someone to give you one, then massaging yourself is

fine) with a lavender or other essential oils thereby freeing your energy and

relaxing you.

 

4. Attend to your frustration & fears: Masturbation is also an outlet for

fearful and frustrated energy. If tasks don't go well, a relationship is

turning sour, someone or something is troubling you, all this disconnects your

mind/body. The natural instinct to reconnect is to goto a place where that

connection is formed.. in sex. This is the easiest route since the pleasure is

immediate... but short-lived. Attending to the real problem and getting help

for those areas, takes the stress of the brain and as such makes you healthier

and less prone to wanting burst-outlets of happiness

 

Again these are just my observations in time and people. The wholistic approach

is to look at original-sympton and release rather than problem-cure approach of

the instant-medical approach. You have to look at the individual -- lifestyle,

pressures, current situation and capacity (not potential) to be able to help

them/work with them better. If not then blanket statements are made " you will

not do this " which causes follow through fear, which may work.. but there was a

time that worked better, these days... every person is more independent and

unless highly uneducated you won't be able to exercise that effectively.. and

you shouldn't do it if you could. As it doesn't promote an educate approach.

 

Well those are my opinions.

________________________________

Well explained! Though I am not sure if I agree with your statement

that both the schools of thought have their merits. Other than from

the yogic viewpoint of chakras, Ayurveda confirms that when you loose

semen, your bodily strength goes down as well because the level

of " ojas " goes down in your body. Ojas is responsible for our

physical and mental strength. It is a fact that those who masturbate

[Guest guest]

> Other than from

> the yogic viewpoint of chakras, Ayurveda confirms that when you loose

> semen, your bodily strength goes down as well because the level

> of " ojas " goes down in your body. Ojas is responsible for our

> physical and mental strength.

 

The loss of ojas. What does it exactly mean in terms of scientific

quantities? Some explaination and links to some scientific info can be

seen in similar interesting discussion in another forum if you can go

through all 22 mails on one page:

 

http://www.theabsolute.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=11 & t=2913

[Guest guest]

> Well explained! Though I am not sure if I agree with your statement

> that both the schools of thought have their merits. Other than from

> the yogic viewpoint of chakras, Ayurveda confirms that when you loose

> semen, your bodily strength goes down as well because the level

> of " ojas " goes down in your body. Ojas is responsible for our

> physical and mental strength. It is a fact that those who masturbate

> frequently in their younghood, typically have a poor health

> afterwards while other factors remain the same (for example: if you

> do not suddenly take up Kundalini yoga afterwards).

>

> Akin to many Ayurvedic concepts, a concept like Ojas which cannot be

> physically materialized can be difficult to understand from a western

> science perspective. Western science is far behind and will take a

> long time before it appreciates the spiritual nature of things. So,

> it is not a matter of a different perspective, but rather that the

> modern science is still in its infancy. To get to the knowledge that

> was passed to us from God through the enlightened beings such as

> Rishis, Yogis, etc., in an experimental hit-and-trial way will indeed

> take a long long time.

 

 

it is also a facet of ayurveda that it is for _everybody_, and not

just brahmacharyas

 

in fact, ayurveda has proscribed regular intercourse for

householders, including ejaculation, as important to maintain health

 

this is clearly supported in medical research, which shows that

regular ejaculation decreases the risk of prostate cancer

 

india is not without its cultural idiosyncracies, and fear of semen-

loss is enmeshed in the cultural fabric, just like a fear of eating

fungi

but what is the original source of these beliefs? you need to

examine this closely, and with an open mind

 

you will find that many young indian men are extremely perplexed

about their sexuality, and get advice from either side which tends to

confuse them further

 

and as for non-indians, while there is much to learn about indian

culture, i see no reason to absorb its cultural anxieties

 

there is nothing wrong with periodic semen release, but one should

also listen to one's body, and feel the effects of this release

 

there are also many techniques to enjoy sexual activity without semen

release, using techniques prior to orgasm to 'pump' this energy up to

the brain

this can be practiced by oneself or with a partner

 

if this practice is undertaken, then even regular emission is

possible without causing harm, because you are rendering from the

semen some of the ojas, and only releasing the material substance of

the semen itself

 

although the modern indian sees ample evidence that their ancient

ancestors had a comparatively 'sex-positive' attitude, the

predominant perspective nowadays has been shaped by the misogynist,

patriarchal and sex-negative culture of the invaders, including the

arabs and europeans

 

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: (1)778.896.8894

fax: (1)866.703.2792

[Guest guest]

Well, I think that the link that Dr. Bhate posted concludes the issue. One quote

from one of the postings from that link says, " An ounce of semen is considered

to be equal in value to sixty ounces of blood " , which I am sure that you have

read in all the Ayurvedic texts.

 

What we observe in our lives cannot be the absolute truth as all of us lead

different lives, have different bodies, and have different ways to perceive

things. That is why people in earlier ages used to trust spiritual authorities

to know the truth.

____

 

There really are two schools of thought on this. I call them the traditional

versus contemporary, but it could be better termed as you have as Ayurvedic vs

Western medicine. Western medicine has no concept of Ojas and that is a primary

distinguisher.

[Guest guest]

Hello PS:

 

Thanks for your detailed reply.

 

I found an interesting website that you may like to peruse:

http://www.semenloss.com/

 

Regards,

Matt

_______________________________

 

Western medicine has no concept of Ojas and that is a primary distinguisher.

[Guest guest]

Matt, Dr Bhate, Todd

 

Thanks for sharing the information and the links and the information.

 

Just because there are links that appeal to the voice of the ancients doesn't

make it accurate. The readings are still extremely insubstantive, just as one

would be if one based their opinions solely based on the book-views and articles

that are pro-masturbation and explain its empirical benefits such as reducing

prostate cancer risks/etc. Think about it.

 

Reviewing statements about historical figures is like reading the new... the

facts are frequently bent out of shape and .. history is written by the winner..

not necessarily the party with higher-ground (if recent politics are of any

indication of past performance of history-note-takers).

 

The past isn't full of purists neither is the present full of idiocy. Both

sources of material hold to them a grain of truth. These views actually aren't

opposing at all. As I said the two school of thoughts (as I classify them) come

from different foundations. As such they could be even considered

complementary. As neither negates the other. The traditional roots speak of

masturbation in terms of rising spiritual energy and also of responsible sex and

release methods (thank you for reminding me of this Todd), and the contemporary

school regards masturbation as a necessary release in the materialistic

stressful society that is currently in demand. Both of these have their

time/place relevance to knowledge. Masturbation regulation can only be based on

a personal choice/understanding basis. Someone that doesn't have the

emotional/mental/physical capacity to bear this energy would be better off

dissipating it (please don't get

all-responsible/perfect about this... we are humans, we have our outlets for

flaws). IF that's the case, i'm still of the opinion that whether one

masturbates is of less importance than that the person is working towards

self-improvement. If in the process, the spiritual inclinations come to be,

then the desire to masturbate will be controlled .. as a by-product of the

effort, not the focus of the effort.

 

Being dogmatic about this doesn't create a healthy environment at all.

Prescribing historians to be perfect note-takers is like the belief in a

" perfect human " it doesn't happen.. so recognizing where there are

discrepancies, combining experience and observation allows you to understand

what the right answer to a situation is. There really isn't a high-moral ground

to this act.

 

If you look at reality, and if it contradicts a theory that exists, then the

theory may need to examined to see if its is " complete " (this is the typical

NP-completeness definition of theories). If one says that just by controlling

masturbation they are going to be lustrous and more attractive and wide-eyed in

an audience, I promise you I'll be the first contradiction to that belief.

(This isn't about making things personal, but rattling off Plato and Pythagoras

doesn't make everyday layman less credible.. it just means we are not famous,

and who knows in a few years i'll be a famed one too..then??)

 

I think this discussion's just about reached the end unless there's something

strongly left to be said. Thanks for engaging in this, its definitely organized

my thoughts on the subject

 

Cheers,

Prashant (yes I've a name, and its not PS ;-0)

[Guest guest]

Hello Prashant:

 

Thanks for the detailed reply.

 

There are two different kind of theories. There is one that is based on

observations and a logical framework to explain those observations, which is

like most of the scientific theories that we find around today. These theories,

as the time goes by, get refuted and replaced by theories that better fit the

facts or explain the new anomalies that appeared since the last theory was

proposed. The source of all such non-permanent theories is the human mind and

our capabilities to perceive and analyze the facts. You must have heard of the

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle that the mere act of observation changes the

observed, so with the faulty perception that the humans have, how can the truth

be realized?

 

On the other hand, there is knowledge that was obtained from spiritual

sources, a level beyond human comprehension and intellect. Those, as the

scriptures mention, were passed down to us through some kind of disciplic

succession coming all the way from God himself. While you may say that that is

just a belief, there are a lot of things in today's scientific world that is

based on assumptions and hypothesis. So, when you accept the fact that Ayurvedic

treatments work and the " knowledge " prescribed in the scripture produces

results, you have to agree when the author of such a document mentions that this

knowledge was obtained through spiritual realization or a disciplic succession

coming all the way from God or beings of higher dimensions (demigods, etc.).

 

So, there are facts that are eternally true, they are not merely speculative

" theories " that get replaced if they don't fit the facts. What may be

responsible in a newer situation are other factors that we are overlooking to

justify a need for a new theory.

 

In today's world, while you say that masturbation releases the stress, I have

never seen in practice that people actually get rid of their stress if they

start masturbating over the long haul. Temporarily, yes for a few moments. For

real in the long run, I don't think so. Our environment has become so polluted,

workplaces full of stress, and relationships unstable. I have heard Yoga and

other natural/spiritual practices gaining popularity in the west as a means to

tolerate all the nonsense all around you -- I have never heard any knowledgeable

person other than college-going youngsters say that to release your stress, just

masturbate. If it was that easy, all of us would be much happier, especially in

the western countries where masturbation seems to be the guilt-free norm. Though

the fact is that the happiness index of an average person in the west is lower

than the east. Think about this, youngsters in the west are allowed to mingle

freely, yet the suicide rate in the

west is the highest. On the other hand, in countries like India where remnants

of the vedic culture are still there, sex before marriage is a big taboo, still

there aren't that many youngsters who commit a suicide.

 

Why would the great philosphers and saints who showed the way to the world did

not masturbate? Why is it that their teachings are timeless and still inspire

us. Why is it that it is their teachings that are now becoming more and more

popular in the west, like yoga, ayurveda, etc.? If modern medicine and modern

way of thinking is so effective, why is it that an average american cannot get

rid of a single disease using the allopathic medicines and western lifestyle --

they all just keep on taking the pills while their conditions get worse. Why is

it that pharmaceuticals have failed us (or rather were doomed to fail by design

:-))? (You may have heard of Kevin's book -- Natural Cures that they don't want

you to know about.) Ask someone like me who has been taking antipsychotics for

last 13 years without any change in my condition. In fact, I have added a few

side effects of the medicines I have been taking.

 

How can we trust man-made theories when they get refuted and replaced all the

time? There was a time when people believed that the earth is flat. Had they

known that the earth is not really flat, someone would have discovered other

parts of the world right away, but just due to believing a man-made theory, they

lost a chance to discover other cultures for example.

 

So, it depends on where you put your faith. I can certainly not put my faith

in the researchers of the pharmaceutical companies who are paid to do what they

are told to do. On the same lines, those who masturbate regularly and have not

seen the other side of the coin by practicing celebacy, how can I take their

words for granted? It is a well-known fact that celebates typically look much

younger than their non-celebate counterparts of the same age group.

 

The problem of nerosis and other psychological problems due to celebacy of any

kind come not from celebacy itself, but rather from the reverse pressure that

our society puts on those who try to follow celebacy. The media flaunts sex

openly, the peer group doesn't help either, western culture as a whole does not

support someone's leading a celebate life. In such an environment, restraining

yourself becomes more difficult. But that does not mean that if you start

masturbating, its physical and spiritual side effects as documented in Ayurveda

will not come to you. You may get relieved of your social and environmental

pressure, but the side effects will come to you in this way or that. On the

other hand, if you follow a spiritual practice and a celebate lifestyle, you are

likely to overcome the pressure that the western society puts on you.

 

Regards,

Matt

________________________________

 

Just because there are links that appeal to the voice of the ancients doesn't

make it accurate. The readings are still extremely insubstantive, just as one

would be if one based their opinions solely based on the book-views and articles

that are pro-masturbation and explain its empirical benefits such as reducing

prostate cancer risks/etc. Think about it.

[Guest guest]

hi matt

 

www.semenloss.com is filled with errors, bias and poor thinking

 

for one thing, masturbation IS found in the natural world and is

practiced by many different species

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexuality#Autoeroticism_.

28masturbation.29

 

it is silly to get your " knickers in a knot " about masturbation

everything in ayurveda should make sense, not from the perspective of

dogma, but because it is natural and normal

 

there is no judgement here, just gentleness and love

 

love yourself! love your body! be kind to it, and enjoy! this is

all you need to know about the subject of masturbation

shed yourself of the guilt, anxiety and worry

be happy!

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: (1)778.896.8894

fax: (1)866.703.2792

 

_____

I found an interesting website that you may like to peruse:http://

www.semenloss.com/

[Guest guest]

Matt,

 

this is a very passionate discussion. Thanks for sharing with us.

 

lets look at a few facts:

 

1. Ayurved today is not the same as it was when it was documented first by

Shushrut and Charak, lots of information has been lost and refound/recreated

through the ages, added in by different practitioners during the eras and

rectified " corrected " over ages by the dominating influence at that time.

 

2. While wholistic medicine has its approach, allopathy has certainly made its

self accessible and has saved and is saving lives daily. If you don't believe

this, look around at someone who has recently gone through a heart

attack/by-pass surgery and you will know this to be true. The same goes for

those suffering from ailments such as kidney failures, heart transplants,

liver-transplants and so on.

 

3. Facts remain that people always have and will continue to worsen their

lifestyles. Even in the days of Charak and Shushrut people died of disease

brought on <probably> by bad lifestyles, this condition is much worse now.

 

4. Spiritual lifestyle isn't pursued by every single person in the east or

west. Most people in the east and west are materialists in their way of living.

The index of happiness is NOT a factor of how often a person masturbates nor of

how many herbal/non-herbal medicines he takes. Its because of teh way of

thinking. Simply put, the eastern way of life puts into practice more of the

fundamental advice given to people universally eg: share, love your neighbour,

take care of your family, put other's needs ahead of yours etc. This good civic

living that doesn't even need a religion or spiritual ascension. However it

creates a communal feeling that keeps you content.. knowing that you are cared

for and loved. Again not a factor of medicine and masturbation.

 

5. Youth suicide in the west is an extension of this behavior. The factor

behind suicide, anywhere, is disillusion, not masturbation, sex or allowed

mingling with ppl of the other sex. If the youth weren't allowed to masturbate,

wouldn't mean they wouldn't commit suicide.. those lines are probably the lowest

factor if at all one. Suicide comes from a place of isolation, disillusion,

extreme discontent. This comes from the social practices, non-conforming family

values, significant dichotomy between values taught versus values practiced

(hypocrisy), non-expected caring level, etc etc etc.

 

6. Now coming to your points of masturbation. You've INCORRECTLY interpreted

what i've said and in a twist of words shown non-understanding of what the point

was:

-- Masturbation is a way to release stress: I've not said that it is a cure for

stress. it is a release. I've also not asserted that is a complete release or

the best mechanism to deal with stress. But the fact that sex releases stress

is irrefutable. If that weren't the case so many in the world wouldn't be doing

it when they are most grieved (and yes this is true in the east too.. esp in the

east, where population is burgeoning, and more in the poor classes... due to

ignorance about birth-control, and also need to have sex because the day's long,

hard, they are tired frustrated and need a... " RELEASE " ). Meaning when you

masturbate, your immediate outburst releases the immediate stress at that

moment. If the source of stress is not attended to it will come back. You seem

extremely attached to your view and absolutely unamenable to any alternative

view to existence at all. If that is the case, this discussion is futile as its

not a discussion but

an assertion of a thought-mechanism. Even the spiritual view of sex is that it

is a release of your energies and with due intensity and appropriate partner,

the release can be so strong that the energy can help loose the ego and give a

person a brief vision of the oneness that is the spiritual high. Spirituality

and sex are both doors to the vision of the oneness that ever soul seeks, but

this is another discussion.

-- Saints proscribe no-masturbation. theirs is a way of the spiritual high.

Their message is for the spiritually driven, and to convert the materialist to

attend to the spiritual aspects of their being. However again, you are editing

their message with your filters. No-masturbation is only a sub-message in the

big picture.. not their goal. its not the highlight of their speech, nor the

highest profile life-changing action they ask of the people. It probably is way

lower on the list of things a person needs to attend to in their spiritual

quest, and that has its own place.

-- Philosophers and great people have been many. Only a handful have been able

to advocate the no-masturbation/no-sex ideology. Leonardo da Vinci was known

for his excesses, as was Mozart. What prevents or creates purveyance of

recorded ideologies as this is the political and religious climates of the

times. The dominating christian church well through the Victorian era wouldn't

allow any freeing ideologies to be permitted / indoctrinated /exercised and as

such there was mass -following of the church-led beliefs. you have inventions

such as the chastity belt and what-not in this time-frames. In the same time,

India was under the rule of islamic and british rulers and had their pervasive

beliefs at that time.

 

Again, what you totally ignore is that masturbation is an output-factor (not the

entire output, it is one factor) of person's position at that time. Most

philosophers have creative outlets that are recognized and hence not in

situations of social stress... the stress factor comes from blocked creative

energies, which is typically a layman's problem not that of one that is

recognized and has social prowess, not that that exempts three-quarters of the

socially acknowledged powers from masturbation.

 

Anyways. I think you need to reread my earlier discussion to understand that

there are many purveying reasons for masturbating. Like all bodily processes it

has its place and time, which are different on an individual capacity and basis.

Depending on the person's ultimate goal, if spiritually placed then the person

has a mechanism and process to move away from it. But the choice is personal.

Not commiting masturbation wouldn't significantly affect a person's desire to

suicide.. as that person has deep-seated problems that any minor release won't

affect. Nor will giving up masturbation take person to their spiritual-high.

that requires a different life-style, mental-ability and energy-manipulation

than what masturbation alone can provide to a person..

 

__________________________

 

In today's world, while you say that masturbation releases the stress, I

have never seen in practice that people actually get rid of their stress if they

start masturbating over the long haul. Temporarily, yes for a few moments. For

real in the long run, I don't think so. Our environment has become so polluted,

workplaces full of stress, and relationships unstable. I have heard Yoga and

other natural/spiritual practices gaining popularity in the west as a means to

tolerate all the nonsense all around you -- I have never heard any knowledgeable

person other than college-going youngsters say that to release your stress, just

masturbate. If it was that easy, all of us would be much happier, especially in

the western countries where masturbation seems to be the guilt-free norm. Though

the fact is that the happiness index of an average person in the west is lower

than the east. Think about this, youngsters in the west are allowed to mingle

freely, yet the

suicide rate in the

[Guest guest]

Very thoughtful and well written advise. thanks

 

_____________

lets look at a few facts:

 

1. Ayurved today is not the same as it was when it was documented first by

Shushrut and Charak, lots of information has been lost and refound/recreated

through the ages, added in by different practitioners during the eras and

rectified " corrected " over ages by the dominating influence at that time.

[Guest guest]

> The loss of ojas. What does it exactly mean in terms of scientific

> quantities? Some explaination and links to some scientific info can be

> seen in similar interesting discussion in another forum if you can go

> through all 22 mails on one page:

>

> http://www.theabsolute.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=11 & t=2913

 

i reviewed this web site and others linked to it extensively

interestingly, the name of the forum is entitled:

 

" Genius Forums: Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the

path to Enlightenment - Truth, Courage, Honesty, Logic, Masculinity,

Wisdom, Perfection "

 

the inclusion of the word " masculinity " (with no commensurate mention

of the word femininity) intrigued me, and so i perused the forums

further, and found that not only are the vast majority of posters

men, authoring threads entitled " gold-diggers " and " are blacks

inferior to whites " , but that the forum sponsors maintain sites that

are actively misogynist, such as http://www.theabsolute.net/minefield/

bkwife.html and http://www.theabsolute.net/minefield/womqts.html

 

one telling sample is taken from the latter link, which seems to

spend a great deal of time sifting through religious literature to

provide evidence as to why men are superior to women, and how women

are nothing except an obstacle on the spiritual path:

 

- I have found one good man in a thousand, But not one good woman

among them. - [Ecclesiastes 7:28]

- Better the badness of men than the goodness of women. -

[Ecclesiasticus 42:14]

- All wickedness is but little to the wickedness of a woman. -

[Apocrypha, Ecclesiasticus]

- Woman is a sick sheass, a hideous tapeworm, the advance post of

hell. - [John Damascene, 7th Century monk & Saint]

- For a woman to study the scriptures indicates confusion in the

realm. - [The Mahabarata, Hindu Scripture]

- A child also cannot be made a witness in a court of law, nor a

woman . . . nor a cheat. . . . These persons might give false

evidence. A child would speak falsely from ignorance, a woman from

want of veracity, an imposter from habitual depravity. - [Hindu

Scripture]

- The sacred books should be burned rather than made available to

women. - [Talmud, Sotah 3:4, Jewish Scripture]

 

etc etc

 

the outrage of this is that if we were to substitute the word " woman "

with " indian " , " jew " , " black " , " irish " , etc, it would viewed as a

hate crime and in today's political climate they would be prosecuted

to the fullest extent of the law!

 

the reality is that women have been the focus of this hate for

millennia, and what have we got to show for it? a human civilization

on the precipice of extinction!

 

while the concern for " semen-loss " is a valid consideration, it is

very clear that much of the dogma that supports this concern is

actively woman-hating and mysogynist

 

ojas itself is boon from the great mother, and women are the physical

representation of Her presence

 

instead of being anxious and fearful of females, embrace your inner

woman!

we are all connected, like the roots of the lotus, nourished in the

dark mysterious soil of the goddess Herself

 

who feeds and clothes and cleans the impotent semen-retaining holy

men? who, through their unacknowledged efforts and life blood

sustains the very culture that these men sit on top of, shouting down

at us that women, sex and semen-loss are our biggest problems?

 

i think the semen-conservers might spend more time trying to

appreciate what women have given them, and turn their efforts away

from obsessing on oedipal fears to actively doing good in this world,

which as human history should teach them, begins with honoring their

mothers, sisters and daughters as divine

 

and when this happens, when everyone can admit the goodness,

sacredness and holiness of women, we will finally have peace in this

world

 

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: (1)778.896.8894

fax: (1)866.703.2792

[Guest guest]

Prashant,

 

I am not sure if we should continue this thread here in this newsgroup as now

it's more of a discussion of pros and cons and morality and spirituality related

to masturbation than a discussion of a topic on Ayurveda.

 

So, please let us take this discussion offline.

 

It does seem that you twisted my words around by saying that I held

masturbation responsible for youth suicides. My argument was that if

masturbation or sex is such an effective tool to deal with stress, why is it

still that there are so many suicides in the west?

 

Regarding allopathy saving lives, first of all, it is making everyone's lives

worse by the numerous side effects that almost everyone is affected by by taking

the pharma-drugs over time. You should know that the prescription drugs are one

of the major factors responsible for deaths in the US. So, while a heart surgery

can save a life, had the person followed an ayurvedic lifestyle, he would not

have come to face a heart problem in the first place! So, which is a better

science, the one that helps you lead a longer life without too many diseases, or

the one that allows you to live a crappy lifestyle and falsely promises to save

you at the end? I know so many heart patients who were operated on and saved,

but how long of a time did they buy down the road? They were put on prescription

drugs for the rest of their lives.

 

If people are materialistic and live a crapy life, it's because of the

apparent safety that the allopathy and our modern thinking promises to them.

Everyone just goes their way of living knowing that if something happens, all

they have to do is take a few pills or get a surgery done on them. So, they lead

the most unnatural lives. The fact is that there are no shortcuts in life if you

do not live properly. The pills have side effects and they eventually make you

more diseased -- then you add on more pills -- where does it end? In death?

 

If people know that this is not the right way to live and there is no safety

in living like that, they would come to their senses and mend their ways and be

happier and more disease free in a true sense. Yes, it all lies in the lifestyle

-- as they say " Health is lifestyle " -- and that is what Ayurveda prescribes.

 

I have heard from many people that lots of Ayurvedic knowledge has been lost

since Charaka and sushruta documented it. Even if there is eveidence to it, why

not accept what is left over? As opposed to accepting a science that is totally

based on a few person's greed to become more wealthy and hit and trial research.

Allopathy does not even know how a disease develops in a person or what is the

root cause in case of many diseases. How come despite so many billions of

dollars spent in last 30 years, not many diseases have been cured completely --

On the other hand, most of the diseases can be kept under control if you take a

few pills everyday. All the pharmaceutical companies want is for you to keep

taking their pills for the rest of your lives. At least Ayurveda has permanent

solutions of many chronic illnesses that plague the humanity.

 

Regarding masturbation being a personal choice, I think that everything in

life is a personal choice, though the truth stands out there. In many

situations, you tend to make a choice that may be harmful in the long run, but

gives you temporary pleasure anyway. World is full of such choices -- Soda,

Beer, Red meat, etc. the list goes on. Despite knowing that it's bad for you, we

do it anyway for the immediate pleasure. I think that masturbation is also one

of those things. By making something a personal choice, you cannot negate the

consequences of your action.

 

Anyway, I do think that you have a good argument about some of the Ayurvedic

knowledge being lost, but then I think that even if we follow the lifestyle

based on what is left over, we will be much better off.

 

Matt

_____

lets look at a few facts:

 

1. Ayurved today is not the same as it was when it was documented first by

Shushrut and Charak, lots of information has been lost and refound/recreated

through the ages, added in by different practitioners during the eras and

rectified " corrected " over ages by the dominating influence at that time.

[Guest guest]

Hello

 

Mathew Ramely says, " My argument was that if masturbation or sex is such an

effective tool to deal with stress, why is it still that there are so many

suicides in the west? "

 

I think this discussion though not directly connected with the Ayurveda it is

conencted with a most private and important issue of human existance,

gratification of sexual desires. And I CONGRATULATE the moderator of this forum

to permit this discussion for there is no vulgarity or illegal side to it.

 

That said, I want to ask another question - the guilt of sex in West due to

influence christianity is so high that I am doubtful if masturbation can alone

handle the frustrations due to sexual deprivation in modern civilized society?

 

Regards

 

Rajeev Upadhye

_

 

Regarding masturbation being a personal choice, I think that everything in

life is a personal choice, though the truth stands out there. In many

situations, you tend to make a choice that may be harmful in the long run, but

gives you temporary pleasure anyway.

[Guest guest]

Matt,

 

Closing this discussion here. The direction you are now going towards has been

discussed in sufficient depth and then some before in the group, please search

the archives for your answers.

 

As for your question:

 

" It does seem that you twisted my words around by saying that I held

masturbation responsible for youth suicides. My argument was that if

masturbation or sex is such an effective tool to deal with stress, why

is it still that there are so many suicides in the west? "

 

Please re-read my comments yet again. No one has claimed that it is a tool to

deal with stress. The discussion is that it is an *outburst-outlet* for stress.

this is a coping mechanism, not a cure. I also went into detail to explain that

it doesn't clear the root-cause of the stress, etc etc. Please re-read.

 

Regarding Crappy-lifestyle-relying-on-allopathy-ending-in-death: simple

question: Does a person living ayurvedic lifestyle not die?

Death is inevitable regardless of lifestyle, and none of the saints or

philosophers are around to disprove that :-)

 

Regarding allopathy and pharmas profiteering of disease: This is true and sad.

But pharmas or allopathy aren't creating the maddening lifestyle we are a part

of. It is the nature of things, evolution, society, dogmas today that's lead to

this lifestyle adopted by the majority materialists. Pharmas and allopaths are

only a small part (though richly profiting from it). Most people don't life a

maddening lifestyle thinking they'll fall sick or die, in fact more people don't

think of this at all, which is the issue.

 

Living a lifestyle prescribed by ayurved: What lifestyle is that? I don't know

that there are any prescriptions that ayurved says will let me live a

disease-free lifestyle that accounts for genetic, prakritic and other variations

that we've evolved into today.

 

The fact is that there were diseases in the earliest of times, if this weren't

the case, why would Ayurved have come to existence. Disesase isn't a modern

invention. The Rajya-vaids were royal practitioners, meaning even the kings and

principals needed their health taken care off. Considering that there was a

royal-vaid, also tells us that there would be the non-royal/common people and

the poor people in the civilization and in time, they didn't get health-care

cause they couldn't afford it, were discriminated against and a plethora of

societal issues. In that sense society is no different today than it was 500

years ago. People died 500 yrs ago, and even before that, and they still do

that now. Its the way one lives that has changed. One can remain healthy, but

the very fact that you have a body means that it is prone to the material

world's ills. This is the consensus both by ayurved as well as the many great

saints and philosophers that you've

used in this discussion.

 

Both systems (ayurved and allopath) have their place in today's life.

Unfortunately today, absolutely healthy people can get a heart-attack. I've

known people that live very fit lifestyles.. exercise well, eat very healthy, no

blood pressure/cholestorol history, etc, suddenly get an attack. Their life at

that time can only be saved by allopathic medicines and surgical processes. So

i'd check into that before denouncing the system in its totallity. The same is

true for thousand's of cases that occur daily in children and adults alike.

That side, reliance on meds is a bad prerogative for any person. The cycle of

meds is vicious and not one to be caught in. Unawareness leads to most issues,

whether one leads a modern life or a traditional one, increased awareness is the

solution to that aspect of life.. this means requiring interest in one's health,

getting educated and getting fair help.

 

The ayurved lifestyle is more preventive in nature. But the level of promotion

today is such that if you adhere to it you wouldn't get very far away from

attending to your health because there's almost a plethora of recommendations.

Think about this... recommendations are to sleep early, wake up early. Easy

enough. Now, some say have a heavy breakfast, some say no meals till noon. And

both are advocated by vaids that claim to have no illness in their system

what-so-ever at 80+ years. Great! next some claim drink a little water during

meals, others claim don't do that. Some claim exercise early morning, others

claim only pranayams are enough, yet others say you must do yoga and pranayams.

Some say drink juices each morning, some say have certain herbs daily, and so

on.... by the end of it, the ayurvedic lifestyle would make you completely

body-oriented, which is not the intention of the ayurvedic lifestyle. Okay, so

I'm exaggerating here quite a

bit, but it is to make a point. What exactly is an ayurvedic prescribed

lifestyle? Is it a one-lifestyle-for-all? That'd def not true (considering it

accounts for tridoshas, gunas, etc). I've yet to find a succinct list that says

if-you-do-this-exactly-I-will-be-disease-free-for-live and will-not-die. If

you've found it, i'd love to have it.

 

In my opinon, ayurved does an excellent root-cause-analysis when possible, and

aims to cure at the source of the issue, recommending balancing lifestyle. This

is in opposition to the allopathic medicine which only aims at curing symptons

by using isolated cure-compounds, which in turn create imbalance in body and

more issues (side-effects), that require more meds to keep in control. However

typically, the ayurved cure takes longer to work through the system and in dire

emergencies is ineffective or in many cases non-existence (eg: heart attacks,

conjoined-twins, accidents, etc). At such junctures ayurved is an effective

back-up system for long-term maintenance.

 

I personally am a strong advocate of ayurved, at the same time, I prefer not to

be dogmatic or encourage dogmas that are hostile to other beneficial sources.

It seems that the ayurveds, that should be balancers are the ones most hostile

to benefits from other systems, and many doctors (not all) are quite open to

exploring avenues of medicine these days that aren't necessarily their

profession (i.e. allopath) and are happy to let their patients take on

alternative healing (not just ayurved, but also homeopath, spiritual healing,

energy healing, magnet therapy, etc etc etc), it would benefit everyone to keep

an open mind, with awareness and respect that each area of knowledge has its

place in our lifestyle today.

 

:-) Just trying to make this discussion a lot lighter, yet keep it to a point.

_

 

I am not sure if we should continue this thread here in this newsgroup as now

it's more of a discussion of pros and cons and morality and spirituality related

to masturbation than a discussion of a topic on Ayurveda.

[Guest guest]

Prasant:

 

Although I intended to end the thread. Some of your comments motivated me to

make a few further comments:

 

Everyone has diseases and everyone dies whether you follow an Ayurvedic

lifestyle or not. The difference is that by following an Ayurvedic lifestyle,

you can ward off many diseases that are merely a result of unhealthy lifestyle

as well as prolong your life. The saints in the past although died eventually,

but left a legacy of how to live your life in a way to minimize suffering that

you and everyone around you goes through.

Good point about people with healthy lifestyles having a heart attack. I

guess Allopathy does come to rescue there, but then a majority of population

does not depend on Allopathy only for those life saving moments, but for

practically all their needs.

Diseases were there in the past as well. As Ayurveda says, diseases are not

caused by unhealthy lifestyle only, but also by our bad karma.

Regarding different opinions about a perfect Ayurvedic lifestyle, I would go

by what the scriptures say. Whenever there is a discrepancy between two

scriptures, I would just pick one that suits me. Still better than not following

one of the recommended lifestyles -- minor differences are not of importance.

Agree with the idea that allopathy does provide immediate relief in emergency

situations.

Not dogmatic about Ayurveda either and am myself pursuing other alternative

modalities of treatment. I never meant to say that Ayurveda is the only

effective healing system, but intended to highlight the fact that allopathy is

cheating people by providing an easy way to treat diseases that allows them to

live the way they want and ultimately suffer because of that.

Regards,

Manish

________

Closing this discussion here. The direction you are now going towards has been

discussed in sufficient depth and then some before in the group, please search

the archives for your answers.