Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I am suffering from indigestion, acne and underweight. Bloated feeling on having wheat, diary and other food sensitivities. Currently having arogyavardhini, ashwagandha and chyawanprash. But not total relief. A nutritionist has suggested to have digestive enzymes and probiotics with meals. What is the view of ayurveda on supplementing with digestive enzymes - will it hinder the bodys ability to produce enzymes on its own later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 do you eat curd daily? If so you may not have much need for digestive enzymes. Prefer pranayama to that. ______________________________ nutritionist has suggested to have digestive enzymes and probiotics with meals. What is the view of ayurveda on supplementing with digestive enzymes - will it hinder the bodys ability to produce enzymes on its own later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 It can be said that digestive enzymes is a part of what is called jathara agni, the ayurvedic term for the digestive fire. They are produced by the liver and pancreas. Ayurveda has no view on digestive enzymes, as they are a recent discovery and therefore not described as such in the ayurvedic litterature. If you want to pursue ayurvedic healing for your symptoms, you have to consult an ayurvedic physician for proper diagnosis and treatment with appropriate remedies. Digestive enzymes and probiotics are very beneficial for digestive conditions, but is a not a panacea. These may very well be related to your problems, but there could be other factors as well. I would suggest both. _______________________________ What is the view of ayurveda on supplementing with digestive enzymes - will it hinder the bodys ability to produce enzymes on its own later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 it was my understanding that this is one of the reasons for drinking a lassi every day. much tastier than taking a pill too (and probably less expensive). and oh, when you use homemade yogurt, it's absolutely delicious!!! Patti Garland Ayurvedic Chef and LifeStyle Coach Bliss Kitchen http://www.BlissKitchen.com (760) 902-7020 _______________________________ Digestive enzymes and probiotics are very beneficial for digestive conditions, but is a not a panacea. These may very well be related to your problems, but there could be other factors as well. I would suggest both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 There are no digestive enzymes in cooked foods. Regarding probiotic cultures in foods, Lactobacillus bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus are the classic yogurt starter cultures. However, neither survives the initial digestion phases particularly well, and neither reaches the gastrointestinal tract in great numbers. For this reason, some do not consider them probiotics. Most people, however, point to the intermittent evidence that these two bacteria can improve lactose digestion in some individuals and may help promote a healthy immune system, so they are usually classified as probiotics. For a culture to be considered genuinely probiotic, it must be safe to eat, remain alive for the shelf life of the product and be present in a high enough quantity to have a beneficial effect. Patti Garland <patti wrote: it was my understanding that this is one of the reasons for drinking a lassi every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Here is a good overview article about probiotics in foods and their functions http://www.thenibble.com/reviews/nutri/probiotic-food.asp#available I have good experience with probiotic supplements and enzymes, especially those from Garden of Life. If one is eating cooked foods, the digestive enzymes are destroyed. Digestive enzymes added to cooked foods will restore the balance and free up the body to make less digestive enzymes and in turn more metabolic enzymes which is beneficial for many conditions. Eating raw foods will supply the enzymes in their natural form. From a vedic perpective, raw foods were always the " Paramahansa " diet, bramachari's forbidden to cook til Brahman initiation, Sannyasi's are no longer allowed to use fire. Vannaprasti's learn gradually how to live more on raw forest roots and leaves etc. However there are certain texturing skills and flavoring with various spices so that the different Vata/Kapha/Pitta constitutions will remain in balance.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Ayurveda does have a reference to digestive juices ( enzymes) besides digestive fire. This is named is PAACHAKA PITTA, one of the five main sub-types of Pitta Dosha, the other four being RANJAK, SAADHAK, ALOCHAK and BHRAAJAK. According to modern physiology, digestive enzymes start from the mouth itself. The salivary secretions from mouth, gastric secretions from stomach, secretions from liver and pancreas and secretions from small intestines all contribute collectively as digestive enzymes. Just a update. Dr.D.B.Muzumdar M.D.Ayurveda-Medicine (Maharashtra,INDIA) http://indiamart.com/dhanwantariayurvedic < dahpc > _________________ It can be said that digestive enzymes is a part of what is called jathara agni, the ayurvedic term for the digestive fire. They are produced by the liver and pancreas. Ayurveda has no view on digestive enzymes, as they are a recent discovery and therefore not described as such in the ayurvedic litterature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 hi ole (haven't heard from you in awhile!) the idea that enzymes in food make a big difference to our digestion i think is a mistaken notion an understanding of basic digestive physiology will tell you that enzymes are proteins, and as such, all proteins will undergo denaturation in the gut - in other words, the comparatively small amounts of naturally occurring enzymes in raw food contribute minimally to overall digestion simply because they are rendered inert and are broken down into their individual constituents during the digestive process the notion of the importance of enzymes in food i think is way overestimated, and has absolutely no tradition or hard science behind it almost the entire thrust of this movement is based on a book called " Enzyme Nutrition, " by Dr. Edward Howell, who provides very little evidence to support his contention, but as we see in the alternative health field, there is little critical assessment of such mythologies and once adapted as " truth " are very difficult to overcome, and now, there is a whole generation of people eating raw food based on this mistaken and quite frankly outdated theories for a balanced scientific appraisement of these theories see: http://beyondveg.com/tu-j-l/raw-cooked/raw-cooked-2b.shtml#enzymes unpasteurized fermented foods (e.g. kefir, yogurt, saurkraut, vinegar, etc) contain probiotic organisms that restore a proper ecological balance in the gut which support digestion, but these are not enzymes per se also, fresh whole foods contain an abundance of other nutrients that assist digestion, such as fiber, or nutrients that generally support health, including vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, etc. - this is why people feel better eating whole, properly prepared foods (rather than preserved and overcooked food) sometimes we do use what are basically pharmaceutical grade highly concentrated digestive enzymes to restore digestion, but in my opinion this should be reserved for people that have chronically weak digestion even after the normal methods of dietary adjustment fail, or in the elderly, who may not be producing enough digestive juice period (including HCl and bile) - there are also other uses for such products, such as in the reduction of inflammation in arthritis or other inflammatory states healthy people however should not need to take digestive enzymes in ayurveda, there is no notion that we need to take digestive enzymes, and further, there is the consideration that improperly prepared foods (i.e. undercooked) are more difficult to digest - the one exception to this in my opinion are animal products, which actually are better consumed raw and minimally cooked rather than worry about digestive enzymes, we should seek to strengthen agni by avoiding foods that produce ama, and by eating foods and taking herbs that naturally stimulate the digestion (dipana) and " cook " ama (pachana) - so much attention is given to digestion in ayurveda, that it doesn't necessarily need help from the idea of using digestive enzymes, although as i point out above, there are times when they can be very helpful best... Caldecott todd www.toddcaldecott.com _ If one is eating cooked foods, the digestive enzymes are destroyed. Digestive enzymes added to cooked foods will restore the balance and free up the body to make less digestive enzymes and in turn more metabolic enzymes which is beneficial for many conditions. Eating raw foods will supply the enzymes in their natural form. From a vedic perpective, raw foods were always the " Paramahansa " diet, bramachari's forbidden to cook til Brahman initiation, Sannyasi's are no longer allowed to use fire. Vannaprasti's learn gradually how to live more on raw forest roots and leaves etc. However there are certain texturing skills and flavoring with various spices so that the different Vata/Kapha/Pitta constitutions will remain in balance.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 hi todd I am afraid you are mistaken. There is good hard evidence to support the use of digestive enzymes. One example is found here: http://www.nationalenzyme.com/data_files/TNO_Research_Web.pdf The beyond article you are referring to is quite biased based on a negative agenda towards raw foods. There are very little arguments and a lot of claims. I should be able to post a rebuttal of their arguments here in the near future. Thanks, Ole _ the idea that enzymes in food make a big difference to our digestion i think is a mistaken notion an understanding of basic digestive physiology will tell you that enzymes are proteins, and as such, all proteins will undergo denaturation in the gut - in other words, the comparatively small amounts of naturally occurring enzymes in raw food contribute minimally to overall digestion simply because they are rendered inert and are broken down into their individual constituents during the digestive process<snip> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Hi Ole, I am not to sure about this study. From a biochemical point of view you have to look at the big picture - hormonal interaction, bacterial population,pH, ion concentration, absorption rates etc. One can only really test for most of these paramaters " in vivo " rather than " in vitro " . From my experience I have found that patients/clients using these " mock-enzymes " have had little benefit from them, but working from the basic Ayurvedic principles has reaped greater benefits. Ray _____________ There is good hard evidence to support the use of digestive enzymes. One example: http://www.nationalenzyme.com/data_files/TNO_Research_Web.pdf The beyond article you are referring to is quite biased based on a negative agenda towards raw foods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Anything processed, manufactured by human hands or machines is less than the original offered by God. And do not believe this author. Test the truth on your own experience, the ultimate GURU. When a natural vegetable/fruit is processed, heated, or something is added to preserve it, it looses nutriotional value or its enzymes. So if we have to preserve something we cant heat it. Enzymes are lost even by vaccum drying or drying under sunlight. Take any vegetable such as bottle gourd. Health benifits of bottle gourd are found here: http://www.furtherhealth.com/blog/archives/category/ayurveda/ Now allow bottle gourd pieces to dry in vaccum drier. We have not subjected it to heat. Vaccum drier sucks out only water part, leaving chemicals intact. If you do not have vaccum drier, use table fan to blow air over the bottle gourd pieces. Low volatile matter may also vanish. We will find out by experience. Now after you have dried the pieces, grind them to powder manually, so that heat is not generated. Let us assume that 1 Kilogram of Bottle gourd produced 500 gram of powder. now soak 100 gram powder in a cup of 100 ml distilled water overnight. We have added just the water lost by vaccum drying. Also remove the juice of fresh bottle gourd 200 ml, thus keeping equivalence by weight. Now both weigh 200 grams, one is fresh juice, other is powder rehydrated to give us juice. Drink one day fresh juice, next morning soaked water. Do both taste the same? Which one gives more satisfaction, taste and better ultimate effect on health? find it out yourself. That is the reason, Vaidyas use fresh herbal juices to coat the hand made tablets, and tablets are dried in shade. In drying process, hete too, some enzymes are lost, but then patient cant come to vaidya everyday for fresh juice. He should take a live herb to his house, and extract juice himself. Since this is impractical and wasteful, acharyas devised the process so that minimum loss occurs. The best example of this is aloe vera juice. You can keep a plant in house and also buy juice from market and compare their efficacy. The rot to modern medicine was the pill culture, copied by ayurvedic pharmacies too, many juices are now available ready to drink and we have vaccum dried wheat grass powder too. The time which could be used to make a fresh juice is used for watching the breakfast news and scanning the stock prices. Fast lifestyle has taken the health toll. Certain vegetables/fruit juices are easier to digest raw, than when they are cooked. You can make a list for your own use based on your own experience. this kind of knowledge is not looked into texts, but developed by experiencwe and passed on by one generation to next. _ One can only really test for most of these paramaters " in vivo " rather than " in vitro " . From my experience I have found that patients/clients using these " mock-enzymes " have had little benefit from them, but working from the basic Ayurvedic principles has reaped greater benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 hi ole i'm sorry but this research is kind of silly - how on earth does this " dynamic gastrointestinal model (TIM) " even come close to the human digestive tract? a collection of metal tubes, tanks and pipe fittings... for one thing, where is the ECOLOGY? but maybe i'm being too harsh - maybe we should ignore several thousand years of empirical evidence and wait for the machine to tell us what to do... ;-) anyway, if you read my post carefully i have already stated that digestive enzymes (even those bioengineered from fungi mentioned in the study) have practical utility in digestive deficiency, and may need to be taken on a regular basis in chronic digestive impairment, such as in the elderly (for one thing, to prevent anemia) however, in over a decade of clinical practice i have very rarely needed anyone to take digestive enzymes longer than a couple months while simultaneously improving their digestion through diet and herbs - i use them as a tool, not as an end as for a refutation of the scholarly exegesis on raw foodism/fadism, i look forward to it did you read the article i sent? make sure your arguments address each point here it is again: http://beyondveg.com/tu-j-l/raw-cooked/raw- cooked-1a.shtml i will expect the same level of detail and please note that i am not " anti-raw " - the issue is not black and white: 1. some foods are better raw, e.g. most animal products, ripe fruits, some vegetables, and some kinds of nuts and seed oil 2. some times of the year are better for raw food, for e.g. late spring and summer 3. some people require more raw foods in the diet, for e.g. pitta prakriti best... Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG) Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist 203 - 1750 East 10th Ave Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com email: todd tel: (1)778.896.8894 fax: (1)866.703.2792 ______________ I am afraid you are mistaken. There is good hard evidence to support the use of digestive enzymes. One example is found here: http://www.nationalenzyme.com/data_files/TNO_Research_Web.pdf The beyond article you are referring to is quite biased based on a negative agenda towards raw foods. There are very little arguments and a lot of claims. I should be able to post a rebuttal of their arguments here in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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