Pcos

September 11, 2002

, " skip80802001 " <

skip8080@c...> wrote:

but what I am really seeing a pt with

> deficient " vegetarian " pulses, no palpable masses,and

menses is

> regular. based on the sx,

treat what you see. that always works best for me. this year I

have seen numerous herpes cases go into remission with the

use of tonics only, no heat clearing. that's what i saw, that's what

I treated. most of these women had been on long dan xie gan

wan for 1-5 years with no help.

September 11, 2002

Long Dan Xie Gan Tang/Wan is, in my experience as a teacher of

postgraduate students, the single most commonly misprescribed of all

Chinese medicinal formulas.

Bob

most of these women had been on long dan xie gan

> wan for 1-5 years with no help.

>

September 11, 2002

Harry,

You haven't listed enough information here for anyone to really be

of help to you here. Just as polycystic ovarian syndrome is a

biomedical diagnosis reached through multiple tests and taking an

in-depth medical history, the Chinese medical diagnosis for this

patient must be equally in-depth, leaving no stone unturned.

What we need to know is:

1) Her tongue diagnosis. For example, if the tongue is pale with

scallops and swollen, we must factor in spleen qi vacuity with either

cold and/or damp underlying in the case, and choose medicinals

accordingly. This is very common, and is possibly a factor considering

her thin pulses.

2) How long ago was she diagnosed?

3) Are there any emotional issues? Any history of pregnancy or

miscarriage, use of birth control pills? History of endometriosis?

4) You mention using blood moving medicinals. While polycystic ovarian

syndrome may sometimes be connected with jing bi/menstrual block in

Chinese medicine, you say she has no pain on menses and a regular

cycle. So why use blood moving medicinals, then? Be careful here,

don't assume that your patient has blood stasis without s/s.

5) Don't discount other factors, such as difficulty sleeping, lack of

sex drive, depression, skin problems, etc. They will give you a

broader scope that at the same time can be more focused more carefully

on accurate treatment plans.

6) If this is an old, recalcitrant condition, it will take some time to

correct. We are talking months, if not years. You need to present a

long-term plan, not just 'let's see what happens in five acupuncture

treatments and one month of herbs' (not to say you personally are doing

that).

7) Polycystic ovaries is in the realm of a knotty disease, complex and

difficult to resolve. So the diagnosis will most likely be a complex,

multi-pattern disorder.

8) Finally, look at the kidneys. Look at qi, jing, yin and yang. From

what you've mentioned, it looks like the kidneys need support.

All the best,

On Wednesday, September 11, 2002, at 04:30 AM, skip80802001 wrote:

> This question could be an old topic here, but I am looking for the

> right formula for a pt with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. Her symptoms

> are very unremarkable , especially with that medical dx. I would

> expect an excess condition with the elevated testosterone that is

> typical here, but what I am really seeing a pt with

> deficient " vegetarian " pulses, no palpable masses,and menses is

> regular. based on the sx, I am using a simple tonifying and blood

> moving formula, but I wonder if anyone has a better idea.

> Seems like a deficient case of infertility.

> Thanks,

> Harry Lardner, Dipl.Ac

>

<image.tiff>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed

> healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate

> academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety

> of professional services, including board approved online continuing

> education.

>

September 12, 2002

, " skip80802001 " <

> It is as if there is very little pathological tcm presentation to

> work with , except for the cheif complaint,and the thready

pulses.

If there is no imbalance, there is nothing to treat right now.

continue with acupuncture and advise on diet, exercise and

relaxation. the thready pulse may suggest blood, essence or yin

xu. but in the absence of symptoms, I would focus on good diet

and maintaining earth to replenish essence. some use of

spleen tonics may be useful in women over 35, even

asymptomatic. I like the use of tonic soups or " congees " with

mild herbs like shan yao, bian dou, fu ling, gou qi zi and such.

September 12, 2002

, " skip80802001 " <skip8080@c...> wrote:

> It is as if there is very little pathological tcm presentation to

> work with, except for the cheif complaint, and the thready pulses.

> So I can support the kidneys based on the infertility, and the

> spleen based on the pulses, but it's a question of an " apparently "

very healthy patient with not much to report. Which is why i ask

> " how to treat biomedical disease " X " ? " (the worst question to ask

in TCM, I know..)

If she is infertile, the pulses are thready, and there are problems

with the spleen, that is the condition you need to treat. She should

not be considered " very healthy " just because she expresses few

overt complaints. Healthy people don't have thready pulses, spleen

problems, and infertility. Thready pulses on their own can indicate

qi and blood depletion, coldness due to lack of qi circulation, and

other general circulatory problems, depending on which position and

depth it is found, and other qualities it is mixed with.

Complaints that are generally described by TCM symptoms are usually

caused by a strong contrast between organs, tissues, functions, etc.

You don't need to wait for any other signs or symptoms to appear;

you already have them. Why wait for her problems to get worse before

you feel compelled to act?

Jim Ramholz

July 16, 2003

All

Is genetic polycystic ovary syndrome manageable without drugs or surgery?

Chinese Herbs

" Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre

minds " -- Albert Einstein

June 8, 2005

Hi,

I have actually been diagnosed with the same thing. I

was diagnosed in 2000 but only started on Metformin in

April of this year, and have been having the same

problem as you...

I have starting to see a Herbalist. Next time I go, I

will ask if they know of anything that may help...

Meanwhile, if there is anyone out there who has any

suggestions, would be greatly appreciated...

Sarah

Message: 21

Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:19:46 -0000

" Luna " <lady_brighid

PCOS

I found out a few months ago that I have PCOS, Poly

Cystic Ovary Syndrome. Which basically affects the

hormones of all sorts including insulin. The doctor

has placed me on a drug called Metformin. Which is

usually a treatment for Diabetes, to allow the body

you sensitize itself to its own sugar levels. The

side effects of this drug are most unpleasant. I was

told I would probably see 2 weeks of diarrhea, due to

the medication. It's been more like 3 months. Has

anyone seen an alternate herbal treatment for PCOS-or

similar diseases, are have a good remedy for the

diarrhea, the immodium doesn't seem to be working very

well? Or a treatmen I could supplement the Metformin

with so my Doctor can reduce the dosage?

+

++++++

If we did not have eyes,

would the midnight stars cease to exist?

Or would we just hear them instead?

++++++

+

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.

June 8, 2005

Sarah wrote:

Meanwhile, if there is anyone out there who has any

suggestions, would be greatly appreciated...

***

Hi, I just joined and have a little information for you here on this one.

PCOS, estrogen dominance, insulin resistance, reactive hypoglycemia play

together. You can google each for lifestyle ways to improve these

conditions, such as eating regularly, getting enough sleep, exercising

and keeping your blood sugar levels balanced, plus some supplements

help, such as chromium, vitamin E, fish oil, cinnamon.

Google Vitex Agnus Castus is the herb to regulate estrogen

dominance/progesterone imbalance and to promote ovulation, which usually

begins within six months of starting Vitex, IF you do not also take

progesterone cream. Vitex is also great for PMS.

Goat's Rue is a herb similar to metformin but it isn't quite as powerful.

Women who are interested in treating PCOS herbally are also taking dong

quai, yam root, and a host of other herbs but Vitex is the central herb

for regulating ovulation and estrogen/progesterone.

Good luck!

Hilary Jacobson

June 10, 2005

Thanks for the info. So far this is the first place I have seen any

info on the subject of alternative medicine for the condition,

including Dr Weil's site. I have been eating right and have increased

my exercise. I shall be going back to my docor soon, and wish to

present some ideas to her. If the goat rue is similar to Metformin, I

may be able to get a lower dosage of the Metformin and supplement it

with the goat rue. My body may be able to handle a lower dose, and

alleviate the diarrhea.

herbal remedies , Hilary Jacobson

<hjacobson@t...> wrote:

>

>chromium, vitamin E, fish oil, cinnamon.

>

> Vitex Agnus Castus is the herb to regulate estrogen

> dominance/progesterone imbalance and to promote ovulation, which

usually

> begins within six months of starting Vitex, IF you do not also take

> progesterone cream. Vitex is also great for PMS.

>

> Goat's Rue is a herb similar to metformin but it isn't quite as

powerful.

>

> Women who are interested in treating PCOS herbally are also taking

>dong quai, yam root, >

> Hilary Jacobson

June 10, 2005

Please use caution when talking to an allopathic

doctor about alternative medicine. Some will fire you

on the spot as a patient. Yes, they can dump you. Some

are so closed minded that they would never support you

using anything else but what they prescribe.

A good book to read which has a lot of information

about insulin resistance is " Protein Power. " I know it

is a " diet " book but it has a lot of great medical

information in it. Perhaps it will help you. Amazon

sells it and I saw that there are some used copies

really cheap.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553574752/qid=1118402571/sr=2-1/ref=pd_b\

bs_b_2_1/103-7151393-1027831

<<Thanks for the info. So far this is the first place

I have seen any

info on the subject of alternative medicine for the

condition,

including Dr Weil's site. I have been eating right

and have increased

my exercise. I shall be going back to my docor soon,

and wish to

present some ideas to her. If the goat rue is similar

to Metformin, I

may be able to get a lower dosage of the Metformin and

supplement it

with the goat rue. My body may be able to handle a

lower dose, and

alleviate the diarrhea.>>

Make your home page

http://www./r/hs

June 10, 2005

I've actually had a lot of luck with my new doctor. Much better than

I had in the past. Trying to find doctors listed as homeopaths with

my insurance company was impossible. My new doctor knew what the

problem was right away. She of course did tests to make sure. But it

wasn't a big guessing game for her, where my previous physicians just

looked at me like I had 3 heads when I described my symptoms. But I

will certainly take your caution under advisement.

herbal remedies , " J. Sweigart " <sweigart1>

wrote:

> Please use caution when talking to an allopathic

> doctor about alternative medicine. Some will fire you

>

June 11, 2005

In a message dated 6/10/2005 9:28:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sweigart1 writes:

Please use caution when talking to an allopathicdoctor about alternative medicine. Some will fire youon the spot as a patient. Yes, they can dump you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Worse than that, if it's a child, they can have your child(ren) taken away and treated their way. There's a case of this nature going on right now in Texas.

Beth

June 11, 2005

Luna wrote:

Thanks for the info. So far this is the first place I have seen any

info on the subject of alternative medicine for the condition,

including Dr Weil's site. I have been eating right and have increased

my exercise. I shall be going back to my docor soon, and wish to

present some ideas to her. If the goat rue is similar to Metformin, I

may be able to get a lower dosage of the Metformin and supplement it

with the goat rue. My body may be able to handle a lower dose, and

alleviate the diarrhea.

---

I was just talking to my doctor about metformin, and she says that the

sensitivities are commonly to the filler stuff used in the pill, and not

to the medication itself. However, the package information warns against

liver acidiosis, so having your liver values checked may be the better

part of wisdom if you continue with it. For those who tolerate

metformin, it's a miracle drug. I'm very skeptical about most medication

but metformin does indeed have benefits for those with PCOS. Also,

mothers who have insufficient glandular milk tissues and milk supply

problems (sometimes also a PCOS problem) commonly see enhanced tissue

growth and more milk if they take metformin -- or Goat's Rue. There are

several generics available today, and you may tolerate another better

than what you are using now.

Good luck!

(In the meantime... still hoping someone will have a suggestion for

making a rosehip preparation that is kind to vitamin C.)

Hilary Jacobson

In herbal remedies , Hilary Jacobson

<hjacobson@t...> wrote:

>>

>>chromium, vitamin E, fish oil, cinnamon.

>>

>> Vitex Agnus Castus is the herb to regulate estrogen

>> dominance/progesterone imbalance and to promote ovulation, which

usually

>> begins within six months of starting Vitex, IF you do not also take

>> progesterone cream. Vitex is also great for PMS.

>>

>> Goat's Rue is a herb similar to metformin but it isn't quite as

powerful.

>>

>> Women who are interested in treating PCOS herbally are also taking

>>dong quai, yam root, >

>> Hilary Jacobson

June 12, 2005

Could someone explain estrogen dominance to me and what vitex does, and does ovulation not happen when you are estrogen dominant? I have breast fibroids and have noticed shorter days between my periods. Which I thought was because of my age, 44.

Thanks,

Sherry

herbal remedies [herbal remedies ]On Behalf Of LunaThursday, June 09, 2005 10:34 PMherbal remedies Subject: Herbal Remedies - Re: PCOSThanks for the info. So far this is the first place I have seen any info on the subject of alternative medicine for the condition, including Dr Weil's site. I have been eating right and have increased my exercise. I shall be going back to my docor soon, and wish to present some ideas to her. If the goat rue is similar to Metformin, I may be able to get a lower dosage of the Metformin and supplement it with the goat rue. My body may be able to handle a lower dose, and alleviate the diarrhea.herbal remedies , Hilary Jacobson <hjacobson@t...> wrote:> >chromium, vitamin E, fish oil, cinnamon.> > Vitex Agnus Castus is the herb to regulate estrogen > dominance/progesterone imbalance and to promote ovulation, which usually > begins within six months of starting Vitex, IF you do not also take > progesterone cream. Vitex is also great for PMS.> > Goat's Rue is a herb similar to metformin but it isn't quite as powerful.> > Women who are interested in treating PCOS herbally are also taking >dong quai, yam root, > > Hilary JacobsonFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

May 22, 2006

Odd, but most PCOSers (i'm one) started a low carb diet they found much success also... I haven't looked to an herbal way to control PCOS yet. I've been on Yasmin ( a BC Pill targeted to PCOS and yeah mood swings from hell but eased many other symptoms) If there is homeopathic way to control this I too would surely like to know! april April Strawser http://www.geocities.com/blackhandfarmBlackhand Farm Spanish Arabian Horses <\__~ // \\ "Some people are like a Slinky...not really good for anything, but you can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs. "

June 25, 2006

Laurel.. Im currently helping a young lady with this problem and have

done research into insulin resistance being a big culprit. Being she

is very young we are trying cinnamon with meals, and chromium

picolinate/cinnamon blend in capsule form. Do some research on the

insulin problem and see if this fits your problems..

blessings..

spot

herbal remedies , " laureltheartist "

<laureltheartist wrote:

>

> I'm looking for a natural treatment for PCOS (polycystic ovarian

syndrome). Though I'm not

> certain that's the problem, I have many of the symptoms such as hair

loss, irregular

> periods, and though I'm not obese I have an extra 10 pounds around

my middle that won't

> go away, despite eating a healthy nutritious diet and exercising

regularly.

>

> Also, I've had what I can only describe as a burning sensation on

the outside of my left

> ankle, just behind and below the ankle bone, which in reflexology

relates to the ovaries.

>

> I was thinking of perhaps acupuncture and/or chinese herbs. I also

understand that maca

> root is supposed to be good for regulating women's hormones. Does

anyone have any

> experience using this for PCOS?

>

> Laurel

>

June 27, 2006

*Laurel.. Im currently helping a young lady with this problem and

have

done research into insulin resistance being a big culprit. Being she

is very young we are trying cinnamon with meals, and chromium

picolinate/cinnamon blend in capsule form. Do some research on the

insulin problem and see if this fits your problems..

blessings..

spot*

Thanks, Spot, I'll give the cinnamon a try. I noticed on another

board that a number of women had success with taking up to 4000 mg a

day of cinnamon and that it seemed to help regularize their insulin

levels. What is the chromium suppoed to do?

Laurel

August 10, 2006

Hi Veronica,

I was diagnosed when I was 20 with PCOS (no 27). My main " classic "

symptoms included:

No periods. I could go months w/o one

Lack of ovulation

Facial hair

Weight gain in the middle only

Severe acne

Cysts on my ovaries (via ultrasound)

insulin resistance

I also have:

Gluten intolerance

What helped me was following a gluten-free diet. The only grains I

eat are rice (brown, black, red, wild and seldom white rice (only in

Sushi)) quinoa and very rarely corn. I eat 75% of my diet in raw

vegetables and fruit. Lots of green vegetables. Lean protiens,

organic chicken, wild fish and shellfish. Unrefined coconut oil,

alvacados, flax seed oils and other " good fats " . (Actually the more

fats I eat, the more weight I lose!)

NO dairy, gluten, processed carbs, sodas, HFSC, MSG and other

artificial stuff, processed sugar, juice (except for raw juices and

wheat grass) booze (maybe a glass of red wine or two a month with

dinner)

I could go on with the diet.

I lost all of my PCOS related weight and went from a size 14 to a

size 6/8. My apple shape turned into an hourglass and it happened

pretty fast.

I also run and bike 5 days a week. Lift weights, and other exercises

including hiking, swimming, anything active and would get my heart

up.

I have regular periods (my cycles are a little long still) but I

ovulate on my own, most of my acne and other symptoms are gone. No

insulin resistance. I also took various herbs over the years to

help balance my hormones in certain situations.

I didn't get this from any doctor. I read the PCOS Diet Book by

Collete Harris and other books on diet and nutrition. I too

Metformin 2000/mg a day for two years and it didn't do anything for

me. BCPs made ALL of my symptoms worse and I tried more than one

brand. I prefer to leave my PCOS unmediated as long as I'm doing

well on my own.

HTH

herbal remedies , Veronica Scurry

<mrs_scurry wrote:

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I don't really post as much being that I am a new member and I

just like to read the post to get more information. However, I have

tried looking through the archives here and I don't see many posts

about PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome). I was doing some research

about this and I see more than 90% of the symptoms in myself. I have

been back and forth to the doctor and she hasn't given me any useful

information, so I am now going the natural way. Does anyone have a

natural protocol for women with PCOS? I am not sure if I have it but

I do see the symptoms. Would it be better to go to my doctor again

to find out for sure?

>

> Veronica

>

> Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta.

>

August 10, 2006

## Does anyone have a natural protocol for women with PCOS? I am not sure if I have it but I do see the symptoms. Would it be better to go to my doctor again to find out for sure?Veronica ##

_____________________

Hello Veronica,

you can do a search of messages just type in PCOS. I just did it and a ton of stuff came up. Hope this helps. Much love.

Micki

August 11, 2006

Hat is pcos?

herbal remedies

[herbal remedies ] On Behalf Of Carla

Thursday, August 10, 2006 5:50 PM

herbal remedies

Herbal Remedies - Re: PCOS