Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Hi Cathy, Ron and other good folks, I wrote in reply to Ron back on 4 October - but as y'all who know me understand, I gotta Cyber Monster living in my server and the following post never appeared on the list ... so I'm resubmitting it now. The entire issue of contamination is not all it's made out to be. > Ron, > Your point about possible contamination is a good one...but I wonder, > if you boil the hydrosol first (then cool it down before using), > wouldn't you lose any potential benefits because the delicate > therapeutic elements, such as trace eo, would be driven off by the > heat? > > Cathy, Wise Weeds > http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/wiseweeds/ > > --- " Ron Guba " <esstherapeutics@o...> wrote: > > ROSE HYDROSOL CAN ALSO BECOME CONTAMINATED WITH BACTERIA - SO I WOULD > ALWAYS RECOMMEND THAT ANY HYDROSOL BE BROUGHT TO A BOIL BEFORE USING > IN EYES. ------------------ Ron Guba wrote: > A few further comments... > the best thing to do is to use VEGETABLE OIL, not water, as an eye > bath, to remove the ess. oil. And then I replied: > > There are two valid schools of thought on this. First, essential oils > > are not water-soluable so using water (or rose hydrosol) will flush the > > EO from the eye ... but a fatty carrier, like vegetable, will dilute the > > EO which reduces the concentration - thus (hypothetically) reduce the > > opportunity for area irritation. So - seems to me immediate flushing > > with water followed by a flush with a vegetable oil sounds OK. And I stand by the above statement because as I said, there are two VALID schools of thought on this. I should have added the word " concentrated " twixt " area " and " irritation " . Then Ron wrote ... in all caps, which means he's hollering at me :-( > VEGETABLE OILS ACTUALLY DILUTE THE EO'S, AS IS NOT THE CASE WITH WATER. I And that is confirming what I said above - EOs do not dilute in water because they are not water-soluable ... therefore, water forces them around like it does houses and trees and boulders when it comes down the hills after a storm ... ;-) Any fatty substance like vegetable oils, milk or even alcohol, will dilute the EOs ... but water will not. Then Ron continued hollering at me ... ;-) > HAVE HAD THE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF SPILLING A LARGE QUANTITY OF RED THYME > OIL INTO ONE EYE. ONE COULD EXPECT A SERIOUS REACTION AND A CHEMICAL BURN. I > IMMEDIATELY WASHED MY EYE OUT WITH VEG OIL, ABOUT 5 TIMES. I WAS QUITE > IMPRESSED - THERE WAS ONLY A TRANSIENT IRRITATION, THAT WAS GONE WITHIN 20 > MINUTES. I would certainly have expected irritation from thymol and I expect there was some but the old eyeball is a wonder at healing itself. And I don't doubt that your method of applying first aid was good and worked - but like I said, there are two valid schools of thought on this and I'm gonna stick to mine as I also have a good bit of personal experience in this regard. When I first started this business, I was about as dumb as the average feller so I allowed my workers to pour oils without eye protection ... it took only a while to wise up. Even then, I had to contend with them learning from personal bad experience not to rub the areas above or below the eyes as there was great potential for it to get into the eye with the next touch. > > > EO's can be used as effective eye drops, but must be used at a low > > > concentration. That is why waters of distillation can be used. One > method I > > > have used with clients on numerous occasions (including young children) > is > > > the following: > > > > Again, a different slant, the only distilled or otherwise extracted > > plant product I'd consider using in any living critter's eyes is Rose > > Hydrosol - use it straight. It's the best way to cure conjunctivitis - > > and I'm talking about in hours instead of the days it takes to cure it > > with antibiotics. I've proven this to many folks. Tastes good too - > > and good for you .. ;-) > > THAT IS EXACTLY MY COMMON EXPERIENCE WITH USING EO'S EMULSIFIED IN SALINE > SOLUTION - SUCH PREPARATIONS WORK QUICKLY AND WITHOUT IRRITATION. ALSO I expect a saline solution would help considerably to reduce the chance of irritation ... but - without further instruction, I'm not ready to tell folks who might be just learning about EOs that: > > > EO's can be used as effective eye drops, but must be used at a low > > > concentration. If I tell them, I expect they will try it - at low dilution .. :-( > ALLOWS YOU TO USE WHATEVER EO IS MOST SUITED. ROSE HYDROSOL CAN ALSO BECOME > CONTAMINATED WITH BACTERIA - SO I WOULD ALWAYS RECOMMEND THAT ANY HYDROSOL > BE BROUGHT TO A BOIL BEFORE USING IN EYES. Yep - that it can. Folks can contaminate a steel ball if they aren't careful and most aren't ... but this is the first time I have ever heard of boiling a hydrosol ... sounds logical but it's just new info. There's a couple of issues that should be considered when we're talking about hydrosols. Those bacteria that can/will grow in a hydrosol are the ones we are exposed to daily - in the foods we leave on the kitchen countertop to thaw, in the mayonaisse that was left out too long, in the chicken that waited 2 days in the refrigerator prior to cooking as it was only one day away from being out of the safety zone when it was purchased. We're exposed to a myriad of such critters daily. A healthy person will have a strong enough immune system to kick crap out of 99.9999% of the bacteria they encounter in a 24 hour period - those with weak immune systems will go down under the slightest onslaught of foreign critters. The caution is good and I don't think it's a matter of being lucky - but I also think we overemphasize the dangers of microbial and fungal growth in hydrosols. My buddy, Martin Watt, is one of the reasons for so much attention being given to this ... ;-) When a hydrosol leaves the still, it is sterile - no microbial or fungal critters can survive steam or hydro-steam distillation. It is at the point of users mishandling that contamination can occur. There are two schools of thought on this - one is that folks want them pure and they are responsibile enough to not contaminate the product - these are the free-thinkers who also object to motorcycle helmuts - the other is those who want you to do it for them. As I have customers on both sides of the spectrum, I keep my hydrosols in a sterile environment and allow them to get them as they want them - I took them from the still myself so I know the condition they're now in. But the ONLY one I sell that could possibly become contaminated by a human critter is the Rose Hydrosol - the others are anti-microbial and anti-fungal unto themselves and it is totally impossible for them to be contaminated. If a buyer wants a natural agent placed in their hydrosol, I can add sodium benzoate at .002% and it will protect - we have lab tested this and it does not change the color, odor or taste - and it changes the PH .001% which is nothing. As for shelf-life, if properly stored away from extreme temperatures and light, those that contain natural anti-microbial and anti-fungal agents can last up to two years or more (uncontaminated) - the Rose Hydrosol is proven to last more than a year and if that were not the case, there would be no Rose Hydrosol half the time because ALL Rosa damascena is harvested and distilled during a 5-6 week period each year - and ALL of the hydrosol from that distillation is produced at the same time. Then I said we oughta take the little rascal to the doctor if for no reason but to make Mama feel better - and Ron hollered back: > ABSOLUTELY - HOWEVER, I'D SUGGEST THAT THE EYES BE FLUSHED WITH VEG OIL > FIRST - TOO MUCH TIME ELAPSES BEFORE GETTING TO THE DOC... > > CHEERS, RON GUBA And I agree with him .. and made an error assuming that y'all understood I meant to execute first aid afore making the trip to the medics .. it would be hard driving anyway if the young'un was hollering and jumping around all over the car .. ;-) Actually, Ron and I agree on a helluva lot more than you've seen in this post ... we're rarely off on our take of issues and we're pretty good list buddies ... just thought I'd pass that along for those who might not have known us from other places. Y'all keep smiling, Butch http://www.AV-AT.com GC Tested EOs, Rose Otto, Hydrosols, Early-Harvest Extra-Virgin Olive Oil and lots of other goodies to make folks smile ... new oils have just been added to the list ... and some humdingers too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 To Butch and Everyone, Dear Butch - I wasn't yelling at you! I just use caps to respond within the text of a message! I certainly agree with you that properly handled, hydrosols will be " clean " and bug-free. Also, only a handful of bugs would potentially cause eye problems. However, in terms of OTC eye preparations, sterility is a major concern. The allowable bug concentration is 1/10 that allowed for topical preparations. So, to me, it is just an easy and " fail-safe " suggestion to heat hydrosols to 90 degrees C plus to guarantee sterility. Once your usual bottle of saline solution is opened, the recommendation is to use within one month (so bugs won't grow). Grapefruit Seed extract, at 0.2% concentration will work as a preservative (I have had this formally " challenge tested " ) in hydrosols. From the little that I have done, it also appears non-irritant to the eyes at this concentration (and is anti-bacterial and anti-viral itself). However, I won't guarantee this non-irritancy - more work will need to be done. That is why mercury-based preservatives are generally used in OTC eye drops - because of their non-irritancy. Lastly, to make more soothing eye drops out of hydrosols, dissolve 9 grams of a good sea salt in one litre of hydrosol - this is the concentration in standard saline solution. Regards, Ron - Butch Owen <butchbsi Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:38 PM [AX] EOs in the Eyes > Hi Cathy, Ron and other good folks, > > I wrote in reply to Ron back on 4 October - but as y'all who know me > understand, I gotta Cyber Monster living in my server and the following > post never appeared on the list ... so I'm resubmitting it now. The > entire issue of contamination is not all it's made out to be. > > > Ron, > > Your point about possible contamination is a good one...but I wonder, > > if you boil the hydrosol first (then cool it down before using), > > wouldn't you lose any potential benefits because the delicate > > therapeutic elements, such as trace eo, would be driven off by the > > heat? > > > > Cathy, Wise Weeds > > http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/wiseweeds/ > > > > --- " Ron Guba " <esstherapeutics@o...> wrote: > > > > ROSE HYDROSOL CAN ALSO BECOME CONTAMINATED WITH BACTERIA - SO I WOULD > > ALWAYS RECOMMEND THAT ANY HYDROSOL BE BROUGHT TO A BOIL BEFORE USING > > IN EYES. > ------------------ > Ron Guba wrote: > > > A few further comments... > > > the best thing to do is to use VEGETABLE OIL, not water, as an eye > bath, to remove the ess. oil. > > And then I replied: > > > > There are two valid schools of thought on this. First, essential oils > > > are not water-soluable so using water (or rose hydrosol) will flush the > > > EO from the eye ... but a fatty carrier, like vegetable, will dilute the > > > EO which reduces the concentration - thus (hypothetically) reduce the > > > opportunity for area irritation. So - seems to me immediate flushing > > > with water followed by a flush with a vegetable oil sounds OK. > > And I stand by the above statement because as I said, there are two > VALID schools of thought on this. I should have added the word > " concentrated " twixt " area " and " irritation " . > > Then Ron wrote ... in all caps, which means he's hollering at me :-( > > > VEGETABLE OILS ACTUALLY DILUTE THE EO'S, AS IS NOT THE CASE WITH WATER. I > > And that is confirming what I said above - EOs do not dilute in water > because they are not water-soluable ... therefore, water forces them > around like it does houses and trees and boulders when it comes down the > hills after a storm ... ;-) Any fatty substance like vegetable oils, > milk or even alcohol, will dilute the EOs ... but water will not. > > Then Ron continued hollering at me ... ;-) > > > HAVE HAD THE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF SPILLING A LARGE QUANTITY OF RED THYME > > OIL INTO ONE EYE. ONE COULD EXPECT A SERIOUS REACTION AND A CHEMICAL BURN. I > > IMMEDIATELY WASHED MY EYE OUT WITH VEG OIL, ABOUT 5 TIMES. I WAS QUITE > > IMPRESSED - THERE WAS ONLY A TRANSIENT IRRITATION, THAT WAS GONE WITHIN 20 > > MINUTES. > > I would certainly have expected irritation from thymol and I expect > there was some but the old eyeball is a wonder at healing itself. And I > don't doubt that your method of applying first aid was good and worked - > but like I said, there are two valid schools of thought on this and I'm > gonna stick to mine as I also have a good bit of personal experience in > this regard. When I first started this business, I was about as dumb as > the average feller so I allowed my workers to pour oils without eye > protection ... it took only a while to wise up. Even then, I had to > contend with them learning from personal bad experience not to rub the > areas above or below the eyes as there was great potential for it to get > into the eye with the next touch. > > > > > EO's can be used as effective eye drops, but must be used at a low > > > > concentration. That is why waters of distillation can be used. One > > method I > > > > have used with clients on numerous occasions (including young children) > > is > > > > the following: > > > > > > Again, a different slant, the only distilled or otherwise extracted > > > plant product I'd consider using in any living critter's eyes is Rose > > > Hydrosol - use it straight. It's the best way to cure conjunctivitis - > > > and I'm talking about in hours instead of the days it takes to cure it > > > with antibiotics. I've proven this to many folks. Tastes good too - > > > and good for you .. ;-) > > > > THAT IS EXACTLY MY COMMON EXPERIENCE WITH USING EO'S EMULSIFIED IN SALINE > > SOLUTION - SUCH PREPARATIONS WORK QUICKLY AND WITHOUT IRRITATION. ALSO > > I expect a saline solution would help considerably to reduce the chance > of irritation ... but - without further instruction, I'm not ready to > tell folks who might be just learning about EOs that: > > > > > EO's can be used as effective eye drops, but must be used at a low > > > > concentration. > > If I tell them, I expect they will try it - at low dilution .. :-( > > > ALLOWS YOU TO USE WHATEVER EO IS MOST SUITED. ROSE HYDROSOL CAN ALSO BECOME > > CONTAMINATED WITH BACTERIA - SO I WOULD ALWAYS RECOMMEND THAT ANY HYDROSOL > > BE BROUGHT TO A BOIL BEFORE USING IN EYES. > > Yep - that it can. Folks can contaminate a steel ball if they aren't > careful and most aren't ... but this is the first time I have ever heard > of boiling a hydrosol ... sounds logical but it's just new info. > > There's a couple of issues that should be considered when we're talking > about hydrosols. Those bacteria that can/will grow in a hydrosol are > the ones we are exposed to daily - in the foods we leave on the kitchen > countertop to thaw, in the mayonaisse that was left out too long, in the > chicken that waited 2 days in the refrigerator prior to cooking as it > was only one day away from being out of the safety zone when it was > purchased. We're exposed to a myriad of such critters daily. A healthy > person will have a strong enough immune system to kick crap out of > 99.9999% of the bacteria they encounter in a 24 hour period - those with > weak immune systems will go down under the slightest onslaught of > foreign critters. The caution is good and I don't think it's a matter > of being lucky - but I also think we overemphasize the dangers of > microbial and fungal growth in hydrosols. My buddy, Martin Watt, is one > of the reasons for so much attention being given to this ... ;-) > > When a hydrosol leaves the still, it is sterile - no microbial or fungal > critters can survive steam or hydro-steam distillation. It is at the > point of users mishandling that contamination can occur. There are two > schools of thought on this - one is that folks want them pure and they > are responsibile enough to not contaminate the product - these are the > free-thinkers who also object to motorcycle helmuts - the other is those > who want you to do it for them. As I have customers on both sides of > the spectrum, I keep my hydrosols in a sterile environment and allow > them to get them as they want them - I took them from the still myself > so I know the condition they're now in. > > But the ONLY one I sell that could possibly become contaminated by a > human critter is the Rose Hydrosol - the others are anti-microbial and > anti-fungal unto themselves and it is totally impossible for them to be > contaminated. If a buyer wants a natural agent placed in their > hydrosol, I can add sodium benzoate at .002% and it will protect - we > have lab tested this and it does not change the color, odor or taste - > and it changes the PH .001% which is nothing. > > As for shelf-life, if properly stored away from extreme temperatures and > light, those that contain natural anti-microbial and anti-fungal agents > can last up to two years or more (uncontaminated) - the Rose Hydrosol is > proven to last more than a year and if that were not the case, there > would be no Rose Hydrosol half the time because ALL Rosa damascena is > harvested and distilled during a 5-6 week period each year - and ALL of > the hydrosol from that distillation is produced at the same time. > > Then I said we oughta take the little rascal to the doctor if for no > reason but to make Mama feel better - and Ron hollered back: > > > ABSOLUTELY - HOWEVER, I'D SUGGEST THAT THE EYES BE FLUSHED WITH VEG OIL > > FIRST - TOO MUCH TIME ELAPSES BEFORE GETTING TO THE DOC... > > > > CHEERS, RON GUBA > > And I agree with him .. and made an error assuming that y'all understood > I meant to execute first aid afore making the trip to the medics .. it > would be hard driving anyway if the young'un was hollering and jumping > around all over the car .. ;-) Actually, Ron and I agree on a helluva > lot more than you've seen in this post ... we're rarely off on our take > of issues and we're pretty good list buddies ... just thought I'd pass > that along for those who might not have known us from other places. > > Y'all keep smiling, Butch http://www.AV-AT.com > > GC Tested EOs, Rose Otto, Hydrosols, Early-Harvest Extra-Virgin Olive > Oil and lots of other goodies to make folks smile ... new oils have just > been added to the list ... and some humdingers too! > > > ----------------- > **Get Used to Chatting so we can eventually have a 24 hr Aromatherapy Chat Room!!! > Times we can meet: > Saturday and Sunday > 11am + 3pm + 11pm Eastern Time (New York Time) > Monday To Friday > 12 pm + 6pm + 11pm Eastern Time (New York Time) > > For those of you who are not sure of the time difference, call your Operator. > > QUICK TIPS: Send your quick tips to > -owner > > The intention of this list is to provide up-to-date information concerning the safe use of Aromatherapy, and is not intended to replace the advice or attention of the proper health care professionals. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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