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Sorry Helen, but Tisserand is wrong. Very simple. Take a microgram scale (I

have one) and weigh one drop from a standard glass 'eye dropper', pippette

or vertically dispensing 'dropper' insert. The approx. weight of all these

'drops' is 25mg. This ratio is also used by French pharmacists, where eo

formulae are generally worked out in milligrams rather than volume. But

thanks for pointing it out. The next time I reply to Tisserand, I will point

out this error to him. Aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid and " Wintergreen " oil

is methyl salicylate.The toxicity of each compound is almost the same,

weight for weight. I happily use Wintergreen for muscular and joint

problems, including during preganancy. AND literally ten's of thousands of

women have used methyl sal. preparations in the last trimester, to deal with

low back pain - with no reports or suggestion of toxicity nor 'miscarriage'.

It's all dose related, Helen. You cannot confuse low dose topical

applications with the ingestion of large amounts of methyl sal. or aspirin,

as reported in human poisoning reports. Most people have the sense not to

take 50 aspirin for a headache. My argument is that aromatherapists should

really be the best informed of " toxicity issues " - in reality, instead of

continuing with the variety of unsupported 'myths' that abound in

aromatherapy literature. And then to be able to use and recommend

appropriate dosages.

 

Anyway, I attach a copy of my " Toxicity Myths " paper. Happy to debate with

you further!

 

Best Regards, Ron Guba

-

Helen Ranger <hranger

 

Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:11 AM

[AX] WINTERGREEN

 

 

> Hi Ron

>

> <Poor wintergreen - it always gets a bad rap! Actually, 10 drops (at 25mg

> each) of Wintergreen or Birch oils equals ONE standard, 250 mg tablet!

> Wintergreen is safe for topical use, even during pregnancy. >

>

> If Tisserand and Balacs say that 10 drops wintergreen equal 21 aspirins,

who am I to

> argue? A drop does not weigh 25mg! There's obviously less than one drop

of methyl

> sal. in each aspirin. Please tell me where your information is from.

They also

> recommend that it is not used dermally - so I'd certainly never use it in

pregnancy.

> Not worth the risk.

> Helen in Cape Town

>

>

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>

>

>

 

 

 

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Dear Helen,

 

I did send you my paper, but I will try again. Look back further, and you

will see that " English Aromatherapy " did not at all begin with Robert

Tisserand, but with the work of M. Maury.The original 'disciples', such as

D. Ryman and M. Arcier, in the UK, gave a very specific 'slant' towards low

doses and beauty therapy. Requirements for AT courses also included the

neccesity for learning " Aromatherapy facials " and the like, up until recent

years.

I am NOT criticising Robert T. But, the " drops " I work with and

prescribe are 25mg in weight, period. And the established toxicities for

acetylsalicylic acid and metyl sal. ARE very much the same, weight for

weight. Check the " Ethnobot DB " or " Phytochemical DB " (database) on the web,

if you don't believe me.

 

I'll send my paper separately, and you can check out the references. Time to

go, I'm off to use some Wintergreen...

 

Cheers, Ron Guba

-

Helen Ranger <hranger

 

Thursday, May 04, 2000 3:29 AM

[AX] Wintergreen

 

 

> Ron

> I would disagree with you that the English tradition of aromatherapy began

with

> Beauty Therapy. It really began with Tisserand and his 'digestion' of the

works of

> Gattefosse and Valnet, and subsequent publications. Yes, certainly, the

beauty

> therapists took it up, but I don't think that the aromatherapy we're

talking about

> here is quite the same as that practised today by beauty therapists, where

generally

> they use ready-blended oils. However, Valnet is a medical doctor, and

qualified to

> administer higher doses if he thought it necessary. What is important to

remember

> is that most aromatherapists are just that - aromatherapists, with,

hopefully, a

> good training in that profession - but they are not doctors.

> You have not sent me your " Toxicity Myths " paper - please do so.

> I would certainly be interested in Robert Tisserand's reply to your

assertion that

> he is wrong.

> I did say in my e-mail, that in the case of Wintergreen, dermal

application can

> cause poisoning in humans. I realise that many of the toxicity problems

occur when

> essential oils are taken internally in large doses; but in this case,

dermal

> application can also cause problems.

> I think here that it is best that we agree to disagree on the point of

dosages of

> essential oils. You won't convince me, and I can see that I won't

convince you.

> However, I do think it important for you to realise that the members of

this list

> are not all as highly trained as you obviously are; many of them are just

starting

> out using essential oils and they may not have access to the purest

quality. In

> this scenario, I think it is of dubious value to tell them to use 10-15%

essential

> oil in a blend. Rather err on the safe side and use the information

available in

> all the text books.

> And by the way, you still haven't told me your source of information.

> Helen in Cape Town

>

>

>

> ------

> You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:

> http://click./1/3555/6/_/605187/_/957422871/

> ------

>

> -----------------

> **Get Used to Chatting so we can eventually have a 24 hr Aromatherapy Chat

Room!!!

> Times we can meet:

> Saturday and Sunday

> 11am + 3pm + 11pm Eastern Time (New York Time)

> Monday To Friday

> 12 pm + 6pm + 11pm Eastern Time (New York Time)

>

> For those of you who are not sure of the time difference, call your

Operator.

>

> QUICK TIPS: Send your quick tips to

> -owner

>

> The intention of this list is to provide up-to-date information concerning

the safe use of Aromatherapy, and is not intended to replace the advice or

attention of the proper health care professionals.

>

>

>

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Ron

I would disagree with you that the English tradition of aromatherapy began with

Beauty Therapy. It really began with Tisserand and his 'digestion' of the works

of

Gattefosse and Valnet, and subsequent publications. Yes, certainly, the beauty

therapists took it up, but I don't think that the aromatherapy we're talking

about

here is quite the same as that practised today by beauty therapists, where

generally

they use ready-blended oils. However, Valnet is a medical doctor, and qualified

to

administer higher doses if he thought it necessary. What is important to

remember

is that most aromatherapists are just that - aromatherapists, with, hopefully, a

good training in that profession - but they are not doctors.

You have not sent me your " Toxicity Myths " paper - please do so.

I would certainly be interested in Robert Tisserand's reply to your assertion

that

he is wrong.

I did say in my e-mail, that in the case of Wintergreen, dermal application can

cause poisoning in humans. I realise that many of the toxicity problems occur

when

essential oils are taken internally in large doses; but in this case, dermal

application can also cause problems.

I think here that it is best that we agree to disagree on the point of dosages

of

essential oils. You won't convince me, and I can see that I won't convince you.

However, I do think it important for you to realise that the members of this

list

are not all as highly trained as you obviously are; many of them are just

starting

out using essential oils and they may not have access to the purest quality. In

this scenario, I think it is of dubious value to tell them to use 10-15%

essential

oil in a blend. Rather err on the safe side and use the information available

in

all the text books.

And by the way, you still haven't told me your source of information.

Helen in Cape Town

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