Guest guest Posted May 1, 2000 Report Share Posted May 1, 2000 Sorry Helen, but Tisserand is wrong. Very simple. Take a microgram scale (I have one) and weigh one drop from a standard glass 'eye dropper', pippette or vertically dispensing 'dropper' insert. The approx. weight of all these 'drops' is 25mg. This ratio is also used by French pharmacists, where eo formulae are generally worked out in milligrams rather than volume. But thanks for pointing it out. The next time I reply to Tisserand, I will point out this error to him. Aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid and " Wintergreen " oil is methyl salicylate.The toxicity of each compound is almost the same, weight for weight. I happily use Wintergreen for muscular and joint problems, including during preganancy. AND literally ten's of thousands of women have used methyl sal. preparations in the last trimester, to deal with low back pain - with no reports or suggestion of toxicity nor 'miscarriage'. It's all dose related, Helen. You cannot confuse low dose topical applications with the ingestion of large amounts of methyl sal. or aspirin, as reported in human poisoning reports. Most people have the sense not to take 50 aspirin for a headache. My argument is that aromatherapists should really be the best informed of " toxicity issues " - in reality, instead of continuing with the variety of unsupported 'myths' that abound in aromatherapy literature. And then to be able to use and recommend appropriate dosages. Anyway, I attach a copy of my " Toxicity Myths " paper. Happy to debate with you further! Best Regards, Ron Guba - Helen Ranger <hranger Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:11 AM [AX] WINTERGREEN > Hi Ron > > <Poor wintergreen - it always gets a bad rap! Actually, 10 drops (at 25mg > each) of Wintergreen or Birch oils equals ONE standard, 250 mg tablet! > Wintergreen is safe for topical use, even during pregnancy. > > > If Tisserand and Balacs say that 10 drops wintergreen equal 21 aspirins, who am I to > argue? A drop does not weigh 25mg! There's obviously less than one drop of methyl > sal. in each aspirin. Please tell me where your information is from. They also > recommend that it is not used dermally - so I'd certainly never use it in pregnancy. > Not worth the risk. > Helen in Cape Town > > > ------ > Now the best and coolest websites come right to you based on your > unique interests. eTour.com is surfing without searching. > And, it's FREE! > http://click./1/3013/6/_/605187/_/957211514/ > ------ > > ----------------- > **Get Used to Chatting so we can eventually have a 24 hr Aromatherapy Chat Room!!! > Times we can meet: > Saturday and Sunday > 11am + 3pm + 11pm Eastern Time (New York Time) > Monday To Friday > 12 pm + 6pm + 11pm Eastern Time (New York Time) > > For those of you who are not sure of the time difference, call your Operator. > > QUICK TIPS: Send your quick tips to > -owner > > The intention of this list is to provide up-to-date information concerning the safe use of Aromatherapy, and is not intended to replace the advice or attention of the proper health care professionals. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2000 Report Share Posted May 3, 2000 Dear Helen, I did send you my paper, but I will try again. Look back further, and you will see that " English Aromatherapy " did not at all begin with Robert Tisserand, but with the work of M. Maury.The original 'disciples', such as D. Ryman and M. Arcier, in the UK, gave a very specific 'slant' towards low doses and beauty therapy. Requirements for AT courses also included the neccesity for learning " Aromatherapy facials " and the like, up until recent years. I am NOT criticising Robert T. But, the " drops " I work with and prescribe are 25mg in weight, period. And the established toxicities for acetylsalicylic acid and metyl sal. ARE very much the same, weight for weight. Check the " Ethnobot DB " or " Phytochemical DB " (database) on the web, if you don't believe me. I'll send my paper separately, and you can check out the references. Time to go, I'm off to use some Wintergreen... Cheers, Ron Guba - Helen Ranger <hranger Thursday, May 04, 2000 3:29 AM [AX] Wintergreen > Ron > I would disagree with you that the English tradition of aromatherapy began with > Beauty Therapy. It really began with Tisserand and his 'digestion' of the works of > Gattefosse and Valnet, and subsequent publications. Yes, certainly, the beauty > therapists took it up, but I don't think that the aromatherapy we're talking about > here is quite the same as that practised today by beauty therapists, where generally > they use ready-blended oils. However, Valnet is a medical doctor, and qualified to > administer higher doses if he thought it necessary. What is important to remember > is that most aromatherapists are just that - aromatherapists, with, hopefully, a > good training in that profession - but they are not doctors. > You have not sent me your " Toxicity Myths " paper - please do so. > I would certainly be interested in Robert Tisserand's reply to your assertion that > he is wrong. > I did say in my e-mail, that in the case of Wintergreen, dermal application can > cause poisoning in humans. I realise that many of the toxicity problems occur when > essential oils are taken internally in large doses; but in this case, dermal > application can also cause problems. > I think here that it is best that we agree to disagree on the point of dosages of > essential oils. You won't convince me, and I can see that I won't convince you. > However, I do think it important for you to realise that the members of this list > are not all as highly trained as you obviously are; many of them are just starting > out using essential oils and they may not have access to the purest quality. In > this scenario, I think it is of dubious value to tell them to use 10-15% essential > oil in a blend. Rather err on the safe side and use the information available in > all the text books. > And by the way, you still haven't told me your source of information. > Helen in Cape Town > > > > ------ > You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com: > http://click./1/3555/6/_/605187/_/957422871/ > ------ > > ----------------- > **Get Used to Chatting so we can eventually have a 24 hr Aromatherapy Chat Room!!! > Times we can meet: > Saturday and Sunday > 11am + 3pm + 11pm Eastern Time (New York Time) > Monday To Friday > 12 pm + 6pm + 11pm Eastern Time (New York Time) > > For those of you who are not sure of the time difference, call your Operator. > > QUICK TIPS: Send your quick tips to > -owner > > The intention of this list is to provide up-to-date information concerning the safe use of Aromatherapy, and is not intended to replace the advice or attention of the proper health care professionals. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2000 Report Share Posted May 3, 2000 Ron I would disagree with you that the English tradition of aromatherapy began with Beauty Therapy. It really began with Tisserand and his 'digestion' of the works of Gattefosse and Valnet, and subsequent publications. Yes, certainly, the beauty therapists took it up, but I don't think that the aromatherapy we're talking about here is quite the same as that practised today by beauty therapists, where generally they use ready-blended oils. However, Valnet is a medical doctor, and qualified to administer higher doses if he thought it necessary. What is important to remember is that most aromatherapists are just that - aromatherapists, with, hopefully, a good training in that profession - but they are not doctors. You have not sent me your " Toxicity Myths " paper - please do so. I would certainly be interested in Robert Tisserand's reply to your assertion that he is wrong. I did say in my e-mail, that in the case of Wintergreen, dermal application can cause poisoning in humans. I realise that many of the toxicity problems occur when essential oils are taken internally in large doses; but in this case, dermal application can also cause problems. I think here that it is best that we agree to disagree on the point of dosages of essential oils. You won't convince me, and I can see that I won't convince you. However, I do think it important for you to realise that the members of this list are not all as highly trained as you obviously are; many of them are just starting out using essential oils and they may not have access to the purest quality. In this scenario, I think it is of dubious value to tell them to use 10-15% essential oil in a blend. Rather err on the safe side and use the information available in all the text books. And by the way, you still haven't told me your source of information. Helen in Cape Town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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