Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Here is a recipe exactly as it appeared in a leaning nutrition publication. Banana Shake to Deflate your high blood pressure. Start your day with a potassium boost ( 763 mg worth ! ) especially important for folks with high blood pressure-with this fast delicious smoothie. 2 bananas sliced 2 c. skim milk 2 c. nonfat vanilla yogurt 1 c. pineapple juice 1 Tbsp honey Process all ingredient in a blender until smooth. Serve immediately. MAKES 4 Servings. Nutrients per Serving: Calories Fat Sodium Potassium 219 .5g 134 mg 763 mg ====================== There you have it. a fantastic recommendation from a mainstream publication. Years back I read this rag religiously, actually d to it for many years, then it went to pot. I have a few problems with this recommendation. First....... they are still " LOW FAT " theory which is bogus as hell in my opinion. Next... they don't know the definition of protein which is " Of First Importance " . ( there is a little in the skim milk, how about adding a raw egg ) Last but not least...... they totally missed the potassium calculations unless the bananas are 3 feet long. They did not even say " Large Bananas " . Two tablespoons of whipping cream and two tablespoons of FLAX oil, plus some soy powder and powdered vitamins would make this whole deal worth while. Even blackstrap would help. I would like to see a calculation by Charles Weber on this concoction. Tell me I am all wet and dead wrong....... please. I think they forgot to divide the nutrients by 4. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 Does anyone know the difference between potassium gluconate and potassium citrate? Which of these should be taken for potassium deficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 Dear Wayne; I am too lazy to make a calculation. However, anyone can make the calculations themselves from the USDA tables if they know the weights. However it sounds like a pretty good source of potassium though, except for the honey which is hopeless. You can substitute potatoes for the bananas and have an equivalent intake. If you really want to get potassium from food, try munching on celery. Sincerely, Charles Weber Gettingwell, Wayne Fugitt <wayne@f...> wrote: > > Here is a recipe exactly as it appeared in a leaning nutrition publication. > > Banana Shake to Deflate your high blood pressure. > > Start your day with a potassium boost ( 763 mg worth ! ) especially > important for folks with high blood pressure-with this fast delicious smoothie. > > 2 bananas sliced > 2 c. skim milk > 2 c. nonfat vanilla yogurt > 1 c. pineapple juice > 1 Tbsp honey > > Process all ingredient in a blender until smooth. Serve > immediately. MAKES 4 Servings. > > Nutrients per Serving: > > Calories Fat Sodium > Potassium > > 219 .5g 134 mg 763 mg > > ====================== > There you have it. a fantastic recommendation from a mainstream > publication. Years back I read this rag > religiously, actually d to it for many years, then it went to pot. > > I have a few problems with this recommendation. > > First....... they are still " LOW FAT " theory which is bogus as hell in my > opinion. Next... they don't know the definition of protein which is " Of > First Importance " . ( there is a little in the skim milk, how about adding > a raw egg ) > > Last but not least...... they totally missed the potassium calculations > unless the bananas are 3 feet long. > They did not even say " Large Bananas " . > > Two tablespoons of whipping cream and two tablespoons of FLAX oil, plus > some soy powder and powdered vitamins > would make this whole deal worth while. Even blackstrap would help. > > I would like to see a calculation by Charles Weber on this concoction. > > Tell me I am all wet and dead wrong....... please. I think they forgot > to divide the nutrients by 4. > > Wayne > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 Morning Charles, >>potatoes for the bananas and have an equivalent intake. If you really >want to get potassium from food, try munching on celery. Yes, I learned about this a few years back. I tried it for a time. I like good celery. The problem is..... most of the celery that I buy is very bitter. Tried the celery hearts. That is a little better at times. I suppose I would have to grow it to get good celery. And..... I can grow virtually anything that is compatible with my temperature environment. I will do some research on growing celery. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 Dear Wayne, According to the instructions on the package of celery seeds I just bought celery likes rich water logged soil. But the real question is " why do you want to get unusual amounts of potassium? " . There should be enough in unprocessed food for most people. Regards, Charles Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 Dear Waddle, Citrate is part of the Krebs cycle and therefore should be burned by the body. If so potassium from citrate should be the same as from most food, and certainly the same as orange juice. I am less certain about gluconate, but I suspect the same. If for some reason you wanted to increase potassium quickly, the most efficient way would be by the chloride. That is the form most of the potassium is in in ORT salts for cholera. Probably the safest quick supplement would be Morton's Lite table salt or Stirling's Half and Half. But if you decide on supplements I would suggest reading http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/arthritis11.html and http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/arthritis12.html first. And of course, there is nothing like good food to avoid imbalances. Sincerely, Charles Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 I gather from what has been said here, that there remains nothing, available from any source, to the health-conscious cook or consumer, that comes close to providing the unique flavor that salt gives to food, while also having considerably less impact on elevating blood pressure, and whatever other problems are associated with salt ingestion. - " isoptera.geo " <isoptera Friday, February 01, 2002 9:26 PM Re: Potassium Tonic > Dear Waddle, > Citrate is part of the Krebs cycle and therefore should be burned > by the body. If so potassium from citrate should be the same as from > most food, and certainly the same as orange juice. I am less certain > about gluconate, but I suspect the same. If for some reason you > wanted to increase potassium quickly, the most efficient way would be > by the chloride. That is the form most of the potassium is in in ORT > salts for cholera. Probably the safest quick supplement would be > Morton's Lite table salt or Stirling's Half and Half. But if you > decide on supplements I would suggest reading > http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/arthritis11.html and > http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/arthritis12.html first. And > of course, there is nothing like good food to avoid imbalances. > Sincerely, Charles Weber > > > > Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health > and well being. > > To learn more about the Gettingwell group, > Subscription and list archives are at: > Gettingwell > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 Charles Perhaps someone on this list can answer your question. Why, if potassium is so plentiful and easy to obtain in natural foods, are supplements available, and what are they used for, by people that buy these supplements? John P. - " isoptera.geo " <isoptera Friday, February 01, 2002 9:13 PM Re: Potassium Tonic > Dear Wayne, > According to the instructions on the package of celery seeds I > just bought celery likes rich water logged soil. > But the real question is " why do you want to get unusual amounts > of potassium? " . There should be enough in unprocessed food for most > people. > Regards, Charles Weber > > > > > Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health > and well being. > > To learn more about the Gettingwell group, > Subscription and list archives are at: > Gettingwell > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 Over the years, I have slowly weaned myself away from heavy salt use. By doing so slowly, my tastebuds have adapted & what little salt I do use still gives the zip & tang which heavy salt use used to do. Part of cutting back was switching to the Morton Lite salt mentioned below. I find I am just as pleased with the mix of Sodium & Potassium chlorides as I am with plain Sodium chloride. Alobar - " John Polifronio " <counterpnt Saturday, February 02, 2002 4:59 AM Re: Re: Potassium Tonic > I gather from what has been said here, that there remains nothing, available > from any source, to the health-conscious cook or consumer, that comes close > to providing the unique flavor that salt gives to food, while also having > considerably less impact on elevating blood pressure, and whatever other > problems are associated with salt ingestion. > - > " isoptera.geo " <isoptera > > Friday, February 01, 2002 9:26 PM > Re: Potassium Tonic > > > > Dear Waddle, > > Citrate is part of the Krebs cycle and therefore should be burned > > by the body. If so potassium from citrate should be the same as from > > most food, and certainly the same as orange juice. I am less certain > > about gluconate, but I suspect the same. If for some reason you > > wanted to increase potassium quickly, the most efficient way would be > > by the chloride. That is the form most of the potassium is in in ORT > > salts for cholera. Probably the safest quick supplement would be > > Morton's Lite table salt or Stirling's Half and Half. But if you > > decide on supplements I would suggest reading > > http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/arthritis11.html and > > http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/arthritis12.html first. And > > of course, there is nothing like good food to avoid imbalances. > > Sincerely, Charles Weber > > > > > > > > Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health > > and well being. > > > > To learn more about the Gettingwell group, > > Subscription and list archives are at: > > Gettingwell > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 In a message dated 2/2/02 18:44:31 GMT Standard Time, counterpnt writes: Please Lord, let it be me.......... Marianne > It's obvious that the first person that patents a food product that > duplicates the " flavor " of salt, will turn into a billionaire overnight. > John P. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 At 05:13 AM 2/2/2002 -0600, you wrote: > Over the years, I have slowly weaned myself away from heavy salt >use. By doing so slowly, my tastebuds have adapted & what little salt I do >use still gives the zip & tang which heavy salt use used to do. Part of >cutting back was switching to the Morton Lite salt mentioned below. I find >I am just as pleased with the mix of Sodium & Potassium chlorides as I am >with plain Sodium chloride. Why not Celtic Sea Salt? Ramit _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 Hi Ramit Where do you get your Celtic Sea Salt? My local HFS doesn't stock it. Pam " Ramit " <supersugarjunkie wrote: Why not Celtic Sea Salt? Ramit Auctions Great stuff seeking new owners! Bid now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 Why are we assuming that Sea Salt of any kind, Celtic or otherwise, isn't harmful to human health, as is believed by nearly every health practitioner, " alternative " and orthodox, that I've read or talked to? I'd love to find out that there's some kind of salt that won't raise blood pressure or harm us in other ways. Fundamentally, most healers believe the natural foods contain all the sodium necessary for the body. Most healers believe, adamantly, that salt should be eliminated entirely from the human diet. Most orthodox physicians accept government standard limits (approx. one teaspoon, max. per day). This is important to me because I suffer from high blood pressure, but also have serious coronary artery disease. Come to think of it, the only foods I yearn to salt, are popcorn and egg dishes. It's obvious that the first person that patents a food product that duplicates the " flavor " of salt, will turn into a billionaire overnight. John P. - " Pamela Southall " <southallp Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:53 AM Re: Re: Potassium Tonic > > Hi Ramit > > Where do you get your Celtic Sea Salt? My local HFS doesn't stock it. > > Pam > " Ramit " <supersugarjunkie wrote: > Why not Celtic Sea Salt? > > Ramit > > > > > > > > Auctions Great stuff seeking new owners! Bid now! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 - " Ramit " <supersugarjunkie Saturday, February 02, 2002 9:42 AM Re: Re: Potassium Tonic > At 05:13 AM 2/2/2002 -0600, you wrote: > > Over the years, I have slowly weaned myself away from heavy salt > >use. By doing so slowly, my tastebuds have adapted & what little salt I do > >use still gives the zip & tang which heavy salt use used to do. Part of > >cutting back was switching to the Morton Lite salt mentioned below. I find > >I am just as pleased with the mix of Sodium & Potassium chlorides as I am > >with plain Sodium chloride. > > Why not Celtic Sea Salt? > > Ramit > I have read the info on Celtic sea salt in light of what I believe regarding Sodium/Potassium balance in the human body, the super-abundance of Sodium in our diet, etc. and have determined that celtic sea salt is still mainly Sodium chloride. It may be purer & have less detrimental additives than normal table salt, but it is still salt. And too much salt is not good for me (probably not for anyone). There is a lot of mystique about celtic sea salt. Maybe I am just not seeing it, but it looks like just hype to me. Good advertizing for their salt being masked as fact. Same kind of half-truths one finds regarding vegetable oils & margarine. Not saying it is bad salt. As salt goes, it is probably better than most because of its unrefined nature & because it has no additives. But it is still salt & too much salt is not (IMO) good for one. Alobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 Evening Charles, >> According to the instructions on the package of celery seeds I >just bought celery likes rich water logged soil. I can make any soil rich, and I can certainly make it waterlogged. Using my computer controlled system for feeding plants, last year, I modified the software to " feed water " at the command of the software. I have city water pressure controlled by a solenoid. Each zone has its individual solenoid. A number of check valves are involved. Typically a 3/4 hp gear pump delivers a calculated nutrient solution from a 500 gal bulk tank. To do this correctly, one needs to data log the EC input of the nutrient solution, and data log the output EC of the leachate to tell when plants want water instead of nutrients. This is a major problem with commercial growers. When the EC of the output is higher than the EC of the input, the plants are simply thirsty, and are taking up water, and not nutrients. This can lead to a serious situation. Just like people, plants have moods and requirements. Most scientist have not mastered this situation yet, or at least how this is related to most commercial plant feeding systems. One day we will master it and have this data input to computer systems that can in fact deliver what the plants want. So..... if I can't grow celery, then I have not studied the requirements of the plant enough. Likely it needs a low ppm of nutrients, lower than I feed my other plants. Often I add a second pump and tank to handle situations like this. > But the real question is " why do you want to get unusual amounts >of potassium? " . There should be enough in unprocessed food for most >people. Than is a good question, and an important one for sure. I am not thinking that I need an " unusual amount " . I know I don't eat enough of the raw and unprocessed foods. However, during the spring when I have lots of this available, I am still barely getting enough potassium. I have in mind a value of 2500 to 2700 mg daily. Some research doctors, ( non-conventional ) state that more would help some people, up to 3500 or 5000 mg. I realize that the balance of other things would need to be present along with the additional potassium. I am also of the firm belief that the masses do not get enough, and that many health conscious people like the ones on this list, at times, do not get enough. Do you consider the 2500 to 2700 mg to be optimum? Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2002 Report Share Posted February 3, 2002 Dear Mr. Polifronio, Sodium chloride in sea salt or any where else is not poisonous. Huge amounts of it can be harmful, especially in the long run. Sea salt does not have much potassium in it even if it is evaporated to dryness. If it is evaporated to dryness, there is a good chance that it will have tiny amounts of poisonous arsenic or cadmium (I do not have analyses). I would tend to prefer small amounts of chemically pure sodium chloride on balance. It probably is not a good idea to eliminate salt entirely in reasonably normal people and I am almost certain it is not a good idea for complete vegetarians. As for high blood pressure, the worst hazard is undoubtedly burst blood vessels. Healthy blood vessels are ten times as strong as they have to be. So a key strategy with or without high blood pressure is to keep them strong. And a major part of this is to make sure you get enough copper which half the people in this country do not. To see how to do this with food see; http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/copper3.html However keep in mind that shellfish from some bays have fair amounts of arsenic, cadmium and lead in them. There is already somewhat of a substitute for salt of sorts. Try sprinkleing a little lemon juice on your salad. Sincerely, Charles Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2002 Report Share Posted February 3, 2002 Charles The diet which I was given over 30 years ago, and which produced for me a level of good health, I didn't think possible, consisted of an essentially raw diet of fresh fruit and vegetables, juices, seeds and nuts, and small amounts (at dinnertime) of steamed and baked plant foods. The most important component of his diet was the 2 large salads my doctor wanted me to consume, each day; and the dressing he advised me to use in addition to a single teaspoon of xtra virgin olive-oil, was " lemon juice. " This same doctor was an absolutely resolute enemy of salt. I deviated from that diet, ultimately with near fatal consequences; but I don't seem able to give up a tsp or so of added salt each day. The single item that I cannot stop using salt for, is popcorn, a food I eat for entertainment a few times a week. This means that I consume approx. 3 tsps of " added' salt a week. It's a compromise which I've made between a more excessive use, and total abstinence. thanks for the copper tip best wishes john p. - " isoptera.geo " <isoptera Saturday, February 02, 2002 4:45 PM Re: Potassium Tonic > Dear Mr. Polifronio, > Sodium chloride in sea salt or any where else is not poisonous. > Huge amounts of it can be harmful, especially in the long run. Sea > salt does not have much potassium in it even if it is evaporated to > dryness. If it is evaporated to dryness, there is a good chance that > it will have tiny amounts of poisonous arsenic or cadmium (I do not > have analyses). I would tend to prefer small amounts of chemically > pure sodium chloride on balance. It probably is not a good idea to > eliminate salt entirely in reasonably normal people and I am almost > certain it is not a good idea for complete vegetarians. > As for high blood pressure, the worst hazard is undoubtedly burst > blood vessels. Healthy blood vessels are ten times as strong as they > have to be. So a key strategy with or without high blood pressure is > to keep them strong. And a major part of this is to make sure you > get enough copper which half the people in this country do not. To > see how to do this with food see; > http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/copper3.html However keep in > mind that shellfish from some bays have fair amounts of arsenic, > cadmium and lead in them. > There is already somewhat of a substitute for salt of sorts. Try > sprinkleing a little lemon juice on your salad. > Sincerely, Charles Weber > > > > > Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health > and well being. > > To learn more about the Gettingwell group, > Subscription and list archives are at: > Gettingwell > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2002 Report Share Posted February 3, 2002 Dear Wayne, I do not think it is established yet that I am a celery growing genius. 2500 to 2700 mg. is probably enough for most young people, although the key word is " probably " . 3500 is probably what you would get from the usual American diet and is closer to what I would recommend (say 4500). The trouble is people are not even eating an unprocessed diet, let alone one high in vegetables. Black people in Georgia average only 1500 mg. Obviously some are eating even less than this therefore. Their white friends are not doing much better. When they put sugar on their food they satisfy their appetite but the sugar contains zero per cent of any essential nutrient, including potassium. Ditto fat or oil for water soluble nutrients. One answer is to adobt a paraphrase of Barbara Bush " just say NO to the criminally incompetent processed food makers " . Counting labor it will be somewhat more expensive, but not as expensive as hospital bills. As for taste, in my opinion if many vegetables are mixed together, either as salad or as soup, they will taste much better. There are a lot of vegetables in this world besides celery. Sincerely, Charles Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 Evening Charles and John, Thanks for the info and discussion on potassium and copper. As for high blood pressure, the worst hazard is undoubtedly burst >blood vessels. Healthy blood vessels are ten times as strong as they >have to be. So a key strategy with or without high blood pressure is >to keep them strong. And a major part of this is to make sure you >get enough copper which half the people in this country do not. To >see how to do this with food see; ><http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/copper3.html>http://members.tripod.com/~c\ harles_W/copper3.html >However keep in >mind that shellfish from some bays have fair amounts of arsenic, >cadmium and lead in them. I have been doing a bit of research and study on copper. Much of what I find applies to plants and animals, not specifically for humans. Of course most of us can read between the lines when animal studies are done, even though we are a bit different kind of animal. I have always said if I was sick, I would trust a vet as much as a conventional doctor, unless the situation was life threatening, and maybe even then. An interesting link relating to toxic levels of minerals.... Potentially Toxic Dosages and Side Effects of Nutrients http://www.holisticonline.com/Nutrition/hol_nutr-toxic-dosages.htm I scanned all these and read a number of them. I have some doubts that these are true in all cases. We never know what kinds of subjects or methods were used to arrive at these numbers. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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