LDL oxidation by arterial wall macrophages depends on the oxidative status in the lipoprotein and in the cells: role of prooxidants vs antioxidants.

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg, list,

 

I've been following the discussion on PUFAs and arterial damage with

interest. First, for a brief introduction. My name is Suze and I've been

lurking for about a month, and enjoying the discussions. I live in the Mid

Coast region of Maine with my 11-year-old Chihuahua and 11-year-old Min Pin,

both of whom I feed a raw diet. I'm a professional web designer (full-time

freelancer) who spends way too much time on the Internet reading health

related lists. So easy to do when you don't have a boss telling you to get

back to work! <G> I'm primarily interested in canine nutrition and holistic

health care and belong to a number of holistic pet lists. I also co-own a

private canine and feline intermediate/advanced nutrition list. I've been

interested in lipids for a while, particularly in regards to canine diets.

As mentioned, I feed a raw homemade diet to my dogs, loosely based on the

dogs' predomestication evolutionary diet (when dogs were grey wolves) and am

always interested in learning how to improve it. I lost my beloved Min Pin,

Koko, to cancer last year. I had been feeding my dogs, gulp, microwaved

Skippy. It's a wonder that Koko made it to 9 years old on such a diet. I

also vaccinated annually at the time, which I've now stopped. Anyway, I

don't intend to lose another dog due to uninformed diet choices or over

vaccination, and as a consequence of going to a natural diet for my dogs,

I'm becoming healthier myself, which started with eating my dogs' leftovers

(organic veggies, kefir, fermented oatmeal, grass-fed beef, pastured

chicken, etc). I draw the line at raw bones, though

 

Now back to lipids - I'm keenly interested in the subject of PUFAs and their

effect on canine health. Many BARFers (those feeding diets based on raw

meaty bones) feed diets high in chicken. Factory farmed chicken is very high

in linoleic acid and so, people often supplement with fish oil and flaxseed

oil to balance out the omega 6s to 3s. The end result is a diet that is

probably quite a bit higher in PUFAs than anything the species evolved on.

I'm wondering if dogs may be prone to arterial damage from diets high in

PUFAs in the same way humans are...? Have any ideas on this? Some

biochemical and physiological functions are different in dogs and humans,

but some are the same or similar, and I want to be careful not to

extrapolate from humans to canines, but often don't know if certain

processes are the same (or similar), or not. Do you have any idea if lipid

peroxidation leading to arterial damage is a process that takes place in

mammalian species in general, or is it somehow unique to humans? According

to the Morris Animal Foundation in a 1998 survey, heart-disease was the

number 2 killer of the dogs surveyed. Cancer is of course, number 1. Since

the majority of dogs are on commercial pet foods, I wouldn't doubt that they

consume a lot of rancid oils. And these days manufacturers are adding EFAs

to their formulations, so perhaps the exposure to oxidized fatty acids is

increasing. <sigh>

 

Aside from vit. E, are there any other antioxidants that specifically

'neutralize' free radicals formed from lipid peroxidation?

 

 

 

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://www.suscom-maine.net/~cfisher/

cfisher

[Guest guest]

-

" Suze Fisher " <cfisher

 

Saturday, January 12, 2002 10:42 AM

LDL oxidation by arterial wall macrophages depends on the

oxidative status in the lipoprotein and

in the cells: role of prooxidants vs antioxidants.

 

 

> I'm wondering if dogs may be prone to arterial damage from diets high in

> PUFAs in the same way humans are...?

 

Know of no reason why they would be immune.

 

> Have any ideas on this? Some

> biochemical and physiological functions are different in dogs and humans,

> but some are the same or similar, and I want to be careful not to

> extrapolate from humans to canines, but often don't know if certain

> processes are the same (or similar), or not. Do you have any idea if lipid

> peroxidation leading to arterial damage is a process that takes place in

> mammalian species in general, or is it somehow unique to humans? According

> to the Morris Animal Foundation in a 1998 survey, heart-disease was the

> number 2 killer of the dogs surveyed. Cancer is of course, number 1.

 

Funny this is also so in humans, well at least humans who eat highly processed

foods.

 

> Since

> the majority of dogs are on commercial pet foods, I wouldn't doubt that they

> consume a lot of rancid oils. And these days manufacturers are adding EFAs

> to their formulations, so perhaps the exposure to oxidized fatty acids is

> increasing. <sigh>

 

Yup.......

 

> Aside from vit. E, are there any other antioxidants that specifically

> 'neutralize' free radicals formed from lipid peroxidation?

 

Hi Suze,

 

Vit E is the main guy, but then you need Vit C to help recycle it.

Anti-oxidants work in teams which pass the free

radical down a linked chain and thus recycle each other (restore anti-oxidant

capacity) and you need to supplement with

balanced amount of each or you may break the chain and have something which

should have been a anti-oxidant turning into

pro-oxidant. This happened in a old beta carotene (Vit A precursor) and smoking

experiment. Because they did not

supplement in a balanced form, the smokers feed the beta carotene got elevated

rates of cancer instead of the other way

around.

 

The anti-oxidants from grape seed are prime examples of this and really do their

magic through recycling Vit C heaps of

times and thus make a small dose of Vit C seem to last forever and have amazing

capacity to deal with a much larger

amount of free radicals than the Vit C could by itself.

========================

Good Health & Long Life,

Greg Watson, http://optimalhealth.cia.com.au gowatson

USDA database (food breakdown) http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/

PubMed (research papers) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

DWIDP (nutrient analysis) http://www.walford.com/dwdemo/dw2b63demo.exe

Patch file for above http://www.walford.com/download/dwidp67u.exe

KIM (omega analysis) http://ods.od.nih.gov/eicosanoids/KIM_Install.exe