Digest Number 179

March 14, 2000

Hi,

I just wanted to say one thing about the 5 Element Acupuncture approach.

The 5 Elements or 5 Phase are spoken of in a number of traditions. Japanese

Acupuncture uses it in Meridian Therpy. The classics like the Su Wen or

the Yellow Emperor's Book of etc., describe how the

elements are manifested as energy through the color of the skin by the

corner of the eye, the sound of the voice, the odor present on or around the

body and the emotion of the person. Dr. Worsley would say that the

patient's Caustive Factor is not diagnosed by the symptoms reported, but by

the practitioners ability to " read " the energy as is is manifesting in the

patient's Color, Sound, Odor and Emotion. The element or energy that is

diagnosed as the CF is the one that is not able to sustain it's proper role

in the movement of chi through the Shen or Ko cycles, which follow natural

law. Once this has been determined, other observations (physical symptoms

etc,) are just part of the picture of that person's Body/Mind/Spirit

attempting to cope or not cope with the energy imbalance. So in some ways

this diagnosis stands by itself. Once I have identified someone's CF, I

will then look at this element(and others in dynamic with it) that is out

of balance (so to speak) and see if the symptoms have some correlation with

8 Principle syndromes. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. This is

based on my understanding, hope it's clear.

Thanks, Janine

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> Message: 5

> Sat, 11 Mar 2000 19:38:21 +1000

> " murray cole " <murrayc

> 5E and 8 conditions

>

> geovani> Thanks Murray. I understand what you are saying

> up to the point where my understanding of TCM permits me, so far.

> There seem to be three levels of understanding envolved here. First, and

> the more superficial (in the understanding of the nature of the

> imbalance of the patient) the following of recepies. And at a second

> and third level I am placing the diagnosis related to the 8 conditions

> that you mention and the Caustive Factor approache. The later (what I call

5E)

> states that deseises - cronic conditions, here - are always decorrent

> of ONE distressed element (from 5), and in fact one of the two pairs

> of the element. But to identify this distressed organ/meredian can not

> be acheived in a very simple manner - because of the generation and

> domination cicles of the elements, any one of the 12 zang-fu could cause

> one particular simptom through the propagation efect of those cicles.

>

> So the ancient people discovered that one can find this element if

> we look for it in the " spirit " - roughfly, a level of the mental and

> the emocional body. But in the end... the organ/vicera should be

> identified.

>

> How would you relate the 8 conditions diagnose approache to the

> above? Unfortunatly I am very " green " in the understanding of this

> traditional " energetic level " approache - although Mr. Wu (my teacher

here)

> will go into it soon...

>

> Hi Geovani, First you need to choose the correct meridian or meridians, by

selecting the symptoms that match the meridian indications, [if you don't

have this info let me know and I'll send it to your email address. The 8

conditions are how you treat the selected points, because each disease has 1

or more condition attached to it. E.G. it can be like a day, each day has

conditions, it could be windy, hot, cold, sunny, cloudy, raining,snowing

etc.

>

> Its the same with a problem or disease,it also has a condition, [ most

acupuncturists think that the patient has the conditions] this is not

correct, the condition belongs to the disease, it's the disease that

changes the bodies energy each time you see them, as you know the disease

changes for all sorts of reasons, as it goes deeper or gets better, the

symptoms change.

>

> You are correct when you say the organ needs to be identified first, you

cannot diagnose properly by picking the emotions, when you treat a person

you mostly have an effect on the physical about 90%, and 10% approx on the

mental or emotional, but no acupuncture has an affect on the spiritual, it

never has and it never will, this a great misunderstanding and

mistranslation. This idea was introduced over the centuries,after the

original sciences were developed and has no basis in the original sciences.

>

> Only the person can change the spiritual, if they want to. This is a

very important point and will help you sort the real practitioners from the

esoterical types, remember that Acupuncture is very real, people are real,

disease is real, treat what is real, what you can see and touch. Don't bring

spiritual ideas into your acupuncture, keep them separate and you will be

safe and on the road to being a useful practitioner to your patients.They

are 2 different areas.

>

> If you can't understand an answer that you are given, keep asking the

practitioner or teacher and if it is no clearer or they say you will

understand one day, give them a miss because they don't know themselves.

With a good understsnding of Acupuncture anyone can give you a clear easy

understood explanation.

>

> I hope I don't offend or upset anyone, but I also was fooled for years on

these points. I hope I have been able to help you a little. Cheers Murray.

>

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Message: 6

Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:59:12 -0300

" geovani " <inandor

Re: Digest Number 178

+ACI-M. Visconti M.D.+ACI- +ADw-gpuovi+AEA-tin.it+AD4-

Hello+ACE- this is Mark

please send your messeges in simple text. not in HTML format,

otherwise we read messages full of strange caracters and we dont understand

the right sense of the messages.

greetings to everibody

geovani+AD4- Hi Mark+ACE- The problem is not really HTML, but the

choice of +ACI-language+ACI- or +ACI-idiom+ACI- or +ACI-character

codes+ACI- that

you can select in you email sftware. Try UTF-7

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Message: 7

Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:06:49 -0300

" geovani " <inandor

Re: 5-E and recipies...

Ed Kasper +ADw-edkasper+AEA-pacbell.net+AD4-

FYI I tried to check out +ADwAPA-Dialogues on 5-E acupuncture, go to:

www. and find 5E+AF8-acup +AD4APg- but search returned

zero.

I enjoy the discussions on 5 Elements. IT would have been my preference in

School except the California State Board has little to do with it.

Ed Kasper L.Ac.

edkasper+AEA-pacbell.net

geovani+AD4- Yes....onelist has some bugs sometimes...they

are fixing it. Try this adresses:

Addresses:

Post message: 5E+AF8-acup+AEA-

Subscribe: 5E+AF8-acup-+AEA-

Un: 5E+AF8-acup-+AEA-

List owner: 5E+AF8-acup-owner+AEA-

URL to this page: 5E+AF8-acup

Options:

+ICI- Listed in directory

+ICI- Open membership

+ICI- Unmoderated

+ICI- All members may post

+ICI- Primary language: English

+ICI- Archives for members only

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Message: 8

Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:37:31 +1100

" Mirva & Gye Bennetts " <gyemirva

Re: Insomnia

Thanks for your message Josep,

Books are a bit thin on the ground about Five element. Basically this style

came about around 3000 years ago when the Chinese were very interested in

the similarities between nature and people. A Five Element practitioner

believes that for each person there is one " problem " element and by treating

that element the whole person grows and changes. Damp, Heat are believed to

be symptoms of a deeper condition and by treating them you are only treating

a symptom that will return.

Very short description. I have a website that I am developing that has a bit

more information if you are interested.

www.acay.com.ay/~gyemirva

All the best

Gye

-

JCarrion

acupuncture

Sunday, March 12, 2000 1:17

RE: acupuncture Insomnia

" JCarrion " <jcarrionterapeuta

Dear Myrva,

I heard something about this technique of the five elements... could you

explain us a bit more? Is there any good book you recommend?

Thanks.

Muchas gracias por su atención,

Thank you very much for all your attention,

Josep Carrion.

jcarrionterapeuta

-----Mensaje original-----

De: Mirva & Gye Bennetts [gyemirva]

Enviado el: sábado, 11 de marzo de 2000 12:56

Para: acupuncture

Asunto: Re: acupuncture Insomnia

" Mirva & Gye Bennetts " <gyemirva

Dear Joseph,

This is a very Five Element approach but it works with my patients and

myself when I am having trouble falling and staying asleep.

Check your pulses. Is the Kidney/Bladder pair a little pushy or full -

don't worry about quality, feel if it feels like a dam wanting to burst a

bit. Now check the Hear Protector/ Triple Heater pair of pulses. Are they

flat. Even if you can feel the blood , are they empty of energy?

If so, this is what we call a IV/V block. This can happen from shock or

hurt, from wanting to close off the emotions that are the Heart Protector

meridian, but without the H.P. we can not really calm, we are not safe, thus

can not really sleep are rest.

To clear this block, Tonify ( ie slow down to the Qi 180deg turn

clockwise and straight out) Kidney 22 ( being the Kidney exit point) and

H.P.1 (on men) and H.P.2 ( on women). This will reconnect the meridians.

You should feel better or start yawning immediately.

As I said it is a Five Element approach. But these type of blocks I

could never understand why they were not part of modern TCM as they are so

effective.

I hope this helps.

Gye Bennetts

Sydney

-

becvaj1.ete

acupuncture

Friday, March 10, 2000 10:37

acupuncture Insomnia

becvaj1.ete

Dear friends,

I have to face with insomnia. During years I was trying to help to my

daughter (A.D.H.D., sleep disorders, nightmares, several epilepsy

seizures...) with Reiki, Shiatsu, Reflexology etc. There was not many

nights I could sleep without interruption. Now (when the health state

of

my daughter is a little bit better) I have troubles to fall asleep. I

am

going tired and yawn in the bed but after 30-60 minutes sleep goes

away...

I am lying with eyes open have to go urinate frequently... I think the

problem is fall asleep. When I fall asleep my sleep is ussually good

without interruption.

(Other problem is that I have to wake up very early in order to go by

bus

for my job.)

Of course during the day I am tired...

Could you reccomed me some acupoints to focus on? (I was trying Heart

7,

Kidney 3, Spleen 6 with only small succes..)

Many thans.

Josef

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January 3, 2002

Ahahahaha...John, your a smart man.

Sincerely,

Lu

> Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:28:16 -0800

> " John Polifronio " <counterpnt

> Re: Some inspiration please?

>

> If you consume 75% of your diet in the form of raw foods, you are a raw

food

> eater. You aren't a " strict " raw food adherent, unless you eat raw food

> 100% of the time. I eat one or two servings of high omega 3-rich fish

> meal(s) a week; which translates to between 1 in 15, to 1 in 30 meals a

week

> that are not strictly vegetarian. Nearly all vegetarians would say I had

> betrayed their cause. But, fortunately, I can define myself the way I

> please; even if everyone else disagrees with me; and I still consider

myself

> a vegetarian; just not a " strict " one. I also consume about 1/2 a serving

> of alcohol a month; and have the nerve to consider myself a non-drinker.

> The boozers agree with me, the teetotalers are alarmed at my

> self-indulgence. Such is society.

January 3, 2002

>Perhaps there is something in our genetics that even with eating

properly, we have more to overcome???>

Pottinger found that malnutrition seriously affected the descendants of

improperly fed cats! Within four generations they could no longer reproduce

themselves, all due to malnutrition. Some people are unwittingly feeding

their cats improperly today just as they eat improperly themselves.

Search for " Pottinger's Cats "

Lorenzo

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

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January 3, 2002

Pottinger found that malnutrition seriously affected the descendants

of improperly fed cats! Within four generations they could no longer

reproduce themselves, all due to malnutrition. Some people are

unwittingly feeding their cats improperly today just as they eat

improperly themselves.

So by fairly recent ancestors (?) maybe within the last 150 yrs, were

malnourished (and they were pioneers so most likely had some hard

times) then my DNA and my childrens would or could be affected too?

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. So, if we work hard on nutruition

for ourselves in childbearing years and so do our children and their

children, do you suppose that damaged DNA or genetic material will be

replentished?

Francie---

January 16, 2005

Greetings to all of my fellow health seekers,

This is an email to all the people who asked about getting kefir or kombucha cultures sent to you last month. My computer crashed and everyone that I promised I would get cultures to need to email me again. I don't have email addresses or mailing addresses to send the cultures out. I have a bunch of kefir grains but only 4 scoby, so first come first served on those. Unfortunately I cannot remember who emailed first so I cannot hold them. Unfortunately, I won't have any more water kefir grains for another couple weeks. I have a current waiting list on those. Just let me know if you want to be added to the WKG waiting list. That's about it. Boy, are we slaves to these stupid machines or what?

Yaphey

Dom's Kefir faq in-siteAs the title suggests, a frequently asked questions webpage dedicated to answering common questions regarding Kefir-making (including a few recipes and natural lotions and more).http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefir-faq.html

KombuchaA page on Kombucha, for the german version, go to Kombucha-shop.dehttp://www.kombucha-shop.com/ If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier...just so long as I'm the dictator. -- George W. Bush, Dec. 18, 2000

Meet the all-new My – Try it today!

November 3, 2005

Susan I have had great results giving the massage with Valor blend and

usually swelling has gone down over night. I also recommend moms to eat

watermelon and grapes. Also Jeni the midwife recommends vit.c and

chlorophyll I haven’t tried it.

For feeling hot if it is the first few days it usually has been my

experience of the onset of milk. Women also get hot if their thyroid is out

of whack so like Martha said endo flex on the thyroid is good. I used endo

flex for one of my clients with thyroid conditions and it seemed to help.

Call me if you need to.

Sonya

Sonya Bastow

MettaDoula

sonya

303.619.5326 cell

303.516.0959 home

ayurveda

[ayurveda ]

Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:19 AM

ayurveda

Digest Number 179

There are 7 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Edema

" Susan Newkumet " <10thmoon

2. Re: Edema

<VMYORK

3. Re: Edema

" Martha Oakes " <martha

4. Re: Edema

" Martha Oakes " <martha

5. group picture invitation

" Martha Oakes " <martha

6. Re: Edema

<VMYORK

7. RE: group picture invitation

" Rasa " <simpleliving

______________________

Message: 1

Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:05:22 -0000

" Susan Newkumet " <10thmoon

Edema

Hello Martha and All,

I am not new to this group, but this may be my first post. I am one

of Martha's Boulder students...My current client gave birth about a

week ago and still has lots of swelling in her ankles and face. She

says yesterday she finally started to have very productive urination.

She is also extremely warm (not feverish just feeling hot) which is

very uncharacteristic for her, usually she is bundled in shawls. Today

was the first day I have seen her, so she has not been on a vata

pacifying diet as yet nor has she been drinking fennel/fenugreek tea.

Any suggestions in helping to move the fluid out.

Blessings,

Susan

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Message: 2

Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:14:40 -0800

<VMYORK

Re: Edema

This is the handout I use for my postpartum doula clients. I would love to

know other ideas, or disagreements to mine. I know Martha will have much to

say about this. Vicky

-

" Susan Newkumet " <10thmoon

Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:05 AM

Edema

> Hello Martha and All,

> I am not new to this group, but this may be my first post. I am one

> of Martha's Boulder students...My current client gave birth about a

> week ago and still has lots of swelling in her ankles and face. She

> says yesterday she finally started to have very productive urination.

> She is also extremely warm (not feverish just feeling hot) which is

> very uncharacteristic for her, usually she is bundled in shawls. Today

> was the first day I have seen her, so she has not been on a vata

> pacifying diet as yet nor has she been drinking fennel/fenugreek tea.

> Any suggestions in helping to move the fluid out.

> Blessings,

> Susan

>

November 4, 2005

When the placenta is delivered there is a shift in hormones not unlike

menopause where hot flashes are experienced. This might explain short term

hotness, followed by chilliness.

Re: edema, I attended a talk today where the speaker had this to say about

edema (The talk was about the importance of drinking water) I'm not

endorsing, I'm just passing on what she said.

Women who experience edema, can use the following tips to reduce it

safely:

Avoid diuretic drugs, especially during first trimester.

exercise

elevate feet or lie down on a regular basis

avoid tight fitting stockings, shoes and clothes.

Increase your consumption of foods with diuretic properties such as:

Carrots juice, celery, anise, parsley, onion, garlic, peppermint, tea

(non-caffeinated), watermelon, cucumbers.

I'm sure you all already know this.

-

" Sonya " <sonya

Thursday, November 03, 2005 12:25 PM

RE: Digest Number 179

Susan I have had great results giving the massage with Valor blend and

usually swelling has gone down over night. I also recommend moms to eat

watermelon and grapes. Also Jeni the midwife recommends vit.c and

chlorophyll I haven't tried it.

For feeling hot if it is the first few days it usually has been my

experience of the onset of milk. Women also get hot if their thyroid is

out

of whack so like Martha said endo flex on the thyroid is good. I used

endo