Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 In a message dated 11/24/01 12:47:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, ruthful writes: > I don't know if I will respond to all cod liver oil that way, or this was > just a really bad off brand. Cod liver oil is a good vitamin A & D supplement. For Omega 3's you would probably do better with fish *body* oil, which is entirely different. Wild salmon oil, for example. It comes in capsules. I doubt you could ever take enough fish *liver* oil to get a noticeable amount of Omega 3's without getting toxic amounts of vitamins A & D. When taking fish body oil, it's a good idea to take some vitamin E with it. Starris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 Hello all. Just want to share my recent fish oil experience and get some feed back. I recently bought some fish oil. No name brand and took about a teaspoon or less. Within an hour my arm pits were itching like crazy. It was really surprising. And then, in the middle of the night I woke up feeling very nauseous and got up to go tinkle and went back to bed and felt like I had a runny nose in the right nostril and blew my nose and it was blood. Alot of blood, not just a little mixed with mucous, But straight liquid blood. I thought that was pretty surprising also. I have not taken any of the cod liver oil since. I am going to go back to omega 3's until I figure this out. I don't know if I will respond to all cod liver oil that way, or this was just a really bad off brand. Any thoughts, anyone? Thanks, Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 Whether this episode of nasal bleeding was a coincidence or not, I'd certainly consider taking this info to a good doctor and have him/her provide another possible explanation. - " Donna " <ruthful <gettingwell > Saturday, November 24, 2001 11:44 AM fish oil problems > Hello all. Just want to share my recent fish oil experience and get some feed back. I recently bought some fish oil. No name brand and took about a teaspoon or less. Within an hour my arm pits were itching like crazy. It was really surprising. And then, in the middle of the night I woke up feeling very nauseous and got up to go tinkle and went back to bed and felt like I had a runny nose in the right nostril and blew my nose and it was blood. Alot of blood, not just a little mixed with mucous, But straight liquid blood. I thought that was pretty surprising also. I have not taken any of the cod liver oil since. > > I am going to go back to omega 3's until I figure this out. I don't know if I will respond to all cod liver oil that way, or this was just a really bad off brand. > > Any thoughts, anyone? > Thanks, > Donna > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Hi Donna If the cod liver oil smelled real fishy - it may be bad. The itch in the arm pits is probably an lymph system reaction - which in itself may be just a detox reaction. The bloody nose is definitely from a lack of vitamin K - cod liver oil will thin the blood. Eating about 1 lb. of almonds over a 2-4 day period should give enough vit. K to thicken the blood. I've taken 3 tblsp. of cod liver oil per day for a few weeks (spread out over the day) with no adverse reactions. Each teaspoon of cod liver should contain 4600 IU vit. A So 5 teaspoons per day would only give the maximum daily recommendation, but i know that limit can be safely exceeded - i've done it. One example is selenium, if selenium supplements are used in excess - you can get selenium poisoning. But if you ate a lot of Brazil Nuts (good source of selenium) you can not overdose - because it is a food. I believe the same will apply to cod liver oil. Rick Donna wrote: > Hello all. Just want to share my recent fish oil experience and get some feed back. I recently bought some fish oil. No name brand and took about a teaspoon or less. Within an hour my arm pits were itching like crazy. It was really surprising. And then, in the middle of the night I woke up feeling very nauseous and got up to go tinkle and went back to bed and felt like I had a runny nose in the right nostril and blew my nose and it was blood. Alot of blood, not just a little mixed with mucous, But straight liquid blood. I thought that was pretty surprising also. I have not taken any of the cod liver oil since. > > I am going to go back to omega 3's until I figure this out. I don't know if I will respond to all cod liver oil that way, or this was just a really bad off brand. > > Any thoughts, anyone? > Thanks, > Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 .. Eating about 1 lb. of almonds over a 2-4 day period should give enough > vit. K to thicken the blood. I've taken 3 tblsp. of cod liver oil per day for a few > weeks (spread out over the day) with no adverse reactions. > Each teaspoon of cod liver should contain 4600 IU vit. A > So 5 teaspoons per day would only give the maximum daily recommendation, > but i know that limit can be safely exceeded - i've done it. > One example is selenium, if selenium supplements are used in excess - you can > get selenium poisoning. But if you ate a lot of Brazil Nuts (good source of > selenium) you can not overdose - because it is a food. I believe the same > will apply to cod liver oil. > > Rick Its a little dangerous to self diagnose everyone. How about saying - " It MIGHT be a lack of ....... not it is. Bleeding is not necessarily a Vitamin K deficiency. My daughter has major bleeding problems that are not a result of a lack of Vitamin K. There are other aspects of liver function that can cause bleeding. A lack of iron could also contribute to bleeding problems. As for eating a pound of almonds - nuts can irritate the bowel, so one pound might be a little uncomfortable. I used to believe everything everyone said on lists, and spent an awful lot of money trying to get hold of the product - which by the way, didn't fix the problem most of the time. (remember Becs LOL.....oils and other things that made us nauseous and bunged up!) Oh well - THAT one was an expensive lesson..... I'm not growling - just suggesting. Tracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 --- Starrisg wrote: I > doubt you could ever take > enough fish *liver* oil to get a noticeable amount > of Omega 3's without > getting toxic amounts of vitamins A & D. This is not true! Only a mere teaspoon of cod liver oil has 552 mg of EPA and close to that amount of DHA! That is a GRAM of Omega 3's! The same teaspoon has 4600 IUs of Vit A and 460 IUs of Vit D. Those are not toxic amounts of of Vits A & D. Pam GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities./ps/info1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 If I eat chocolate it brings on a nosebleed. I don't know why, maybe it irritates my sinuses. Liz D " John Polifronio " <counterpnt Sat, 24 Nov 2001 12:52:42 -0800 Re: fish oil problems > Whether this episode of nasal bleeding was a coincidence or not, I'd > certainly consider taking this info to a good doctor and have him/her > provide another possible explanation. > - > " Donna " <ruthful > <gettingwell > > Saturday, November 24, 2001 11:44 AM > fish oil problems -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Ok Tracy I forgot might! But if you add a blood thinning agent and have a nose bleed about 8 - 16 hours later it is a fairly sure bet. I see you are discovering that almost ALL supplements are a waste of $$. Deal with the cause and the problem will go away. It is almost guaranteed that almost every disease will show an EFA imbalance according to the EFA test from GSDL: http://www.gsdl.com/assessments/fattyacids/ http://www.gsdl.com/assessments/fattyacids/appguide/ Check it out for yourself. As for vitamin K - Here is VERY GOOD information! You will not believe the value of Vitamin K. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.html Notice margarine may stop vitamin K from working Rick Tracy wrote: Its a little dangerous to self diagnose everyone. How about saying - " It > MIGHT be a lack of ....... not it is. Bleeding is not necessarily a > Vitamin K deficiency. My daughter has major bleeding problems that are not > a result of a lack of Vitamin K. There are other aspects of liver function > that can cause bleeding. A lack of iron could also contribute to bleeding > problems. As for eating a pound of almonds - nuts can irritate the bowel, so > one pound might be a little uncomfortable. > > I used to believe everything everyone said on lists, and spent an awful lot > of money trying to get hold of the product - which by the way, didn't fix > the problem most of the time. (remember Becs LOL.....oils and other things > that made us nauseous and bunged up!) > > Oh well - THAT one was an expensive lesson..... > > I'm not growling - just suggesting. > > Tracy > > > Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health > and well being. > > To learn more about the Gettingwell group, > Subscription and list archives are at: > Gettingwell > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Actually these are quite conservative amounts of natural A and D. - " Pamela Southall " <southallp Saturday, November 24, 2001 5:19 PM Re: fish oil problems > > --- Starrisg wrote: > I > > doubt you could ever take > > enough fish *liver* oil to get a noticeable amount > > of Omega 3's without > > getting toxic amounts of vitamins A & D. > > This is not true! Only a mere teaspoon of cod liver > oil has 552 mg of EPA and close to that amount of DHA! > That is a GRAM of Omega 3's! The same teaspoon has > 4600 IUs of Vit A and 460 IUs of Vit D. Those are not > toxic amounts of of Vits A & D. > > Pam > > > > GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities./ps/info1 > > > Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health > and well being. > > To learn more about the Gettingwell group, > Subscription and list archives are at: > Gettingwell > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Thank you Rick - I will check it out. I am sure I do have an imbalance, of EFA's, but so unsure as to where to start. If anyone has any helpful ideas regarding bleeding and its causes, I would be grateful to hear. My daughter has a metabolic disorder which usually involves supplementation with Vitamin K. having had 10mg per day of Vit K since she was little, they (the doctors) have now discovered it is NOT her Vitamin K levels causing the bleeding. (she bleeds from her nose at night, but can do during the day also, and from around her G-tube. They have her on iron, thinking it could be that, but its not working. In fact, it is getting worse. Her liver does not function correctly, so that is the problem. I just don't know how to help it. Any ideas what might be causing it and what do about it? I know you are all not doctors, but sometimes we can come up with ideas that lead us in the right direction. Tracy - " Rick Muenzer " <r.muenzer Sunday, 25 November 2001 18:02 Re: fish oil problems > Ok Tracy > > I forgot might! But if you add a blood thinning agent and have a > nose bleed about 8 - 16 hours later it is a fairly sure bet. > I see you are discovering that almost ALL supplements are > a waste of $$. Deal with the cause and the problem will go away. > It is almost guaranteed that almost every disease will show an EFA > imbalance according to the EFA test from GSDL: > http://www.gsdl.com/assessments/fattyacids/ > http://www.gsdl.com/assessments/fattyacids/appguide/ > Check it out for yourself. > > As for vitamin K - Here is VERY GOOD information! > You will not believe the value of Vitamin K. > http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.html > Notice margarine may stop vitamin K from working > > Rick > > Tracy wrote: > Its a little dangerous to self diagnose everyone. How about saying - " It > > > MIGHT be a lack of ....... not it is. Bleeding is not necessarily a > > Vitamin K deficiency. My daughter has major bleeding problems that are not > > a result of a lack of Vitamin K. There are other aspects of liver function > > that can cause bleeding. A lack of iron could also contribute to bleeding > > problems. As for eating a pound of almonds - nuts can irritate the bowel, so > > one pound might be a little uncomfortable. > > > > I used to believe everything everyone said on lists, and spent an awful lot > > of money trying to get hold of the product - which by the way, didn't fix > > the problem most of the time. (remember Becs LOL.....oils and other things > > that made us nauseous and bunged up!) > > > > Oh well - THAT one was an expensive lesson..... > > > > I'm not growling - just suggesting. > > > > Tracy > > > > > > Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health > > and well being. > > > > To learn more about the Gettingwell group, > > Subscription and list archives are at: > > Gettingwell > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Hi again Rick Can you tell me how come you know so much about EFA's. Have you studied them or something? Are you a professional, or just amateur (like myself) who likes learing about health and nutrition. I just thought to ask, before I run some quesitons past you. ( I am not too good on understanding the whole fatty acid scenario, so thought to ask first as to your background.) Hope this is o.k. Tracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 In a message dated 11/24/01 9:26:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, counterpnt writes: > Actually these are quite conservative amounts of natural A and D. That's why it makes a good vitamin A & D supplement. It's manufactured as a vitamin A & D supplement, in fact. It's not intended to be used as a source of omege 3's to balance the omega 6's in a meat eater's diet. Fish *body* oil is manufactured for omega 3's. With it you can get the multi-grams necessary to offset the nearly total depletion of natural omega 3's in feed-lot raised meats. Anyone who could pay about $8 and up for a pound for grass-fed beef wouldn't even have to supplement. I prefer flax oil to fish body oil, myself, but I simply don't trust fish liver oil. If the body oil might be contaminated, think of how much more contaminated the *liver* oil can be! The liver is maybe the most toxic part of the body! Starris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 In a message dated 11/25/01 9:03:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, southallp writes: > Do your research, hon. > Don't " hon " me, dearie. I was probably studying alternative medicine before you were born. Hopefully some of you will get well in spite of your confusion. My interest here was just to get feel for new age ideas. For someone so out-of-it, at least I'm healthy. Good luck, kids Starris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 --- Starrisg wrote: > That's why it makes a good vitamin A & D supplement. > It's manufactured as a > vitamin A & D supplement, in fact. It's not > intended to be used as a source > of omege 3's to balance the omega 6's in a meat > eater's diet. > This statement is inaccurate. Off the top of my head, Dr. Atkins, Dr. Eades and Dr. Mercola (cod liver oil is his *favorite* source of the omega-3s) recommend cod liver oil for omega-3s. In fact, Dr. Eades (Protein Power Life Plan) says specifically to avoid aquacultured fish because they lack beneficial omega-3 fatty acids! Instead, he encourages people to eat sardines and other wild coldwater fishes and take daily doses of cod liver oil. Do your research, hon. Pam GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities./ps/info1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Hi Tracy I consider myself lucky to have a doctor tell me " You will die from prostate cancer unless i operate on you " . It motivated me to learn about the cancer industry and most of the alternatives. I can say from experience that the vast majority of supplements and modalities are useless. I own a rife machine and automated colloidal silver maker and can say they will make you feel better but like almost all supplements and drugs they only deal with symptoms. A few months ago i " discovered " the causes for almost all diseased which makes the diseases simply symptoms in themselves. If you study some of the thousands of web pages on EFAs - you should come to the same deductions i have. Have you carefully reviewed all 5 pages of the GSDL test? http://www.gsdl.com/assessments/fattyacids/appguide While this is the best Simple outline of the EFA scenario - It is FAR from complete. The influence of EFAs are WAY BEYOND what you might believe. To effect a cure one should start with a good system cleanse - There are several out there. Also a good liver cleanse every few months wouldn't hurt because the liver is the body's chemical factory and according to oriental medicine the Qui/Chi is center of health. Then you MUST avoid all hydrogenated/partially hydrogenated oils - they are the insidious silent killers which along with the processed food and industrial agribusiness have all but eliminated omega 3 from our diets. After studying the EFA scenario - i came to the knowledge that omega 3 is the controller in each cell of the body and when eliminated (squeezed out by alien oils = hydrogenated) the cells simply malfunction into almost every disease you can think of. So to reverse the disease just rebalance the EFAs (which is a long process) and keep the balance. More recently i've found what may be almost as important as omega 3. There is an omega 5 which has very little research on it - but it may be a much faster killer of cancer than people might believe. Rick Tracy wrote: > Hi again Rick > > Can you tell me how come you know so much about EFA's. Have you studied > them or something? Are you a professional, or just amateur (like myself) > who likes learing about health and nutrition. I just thought to ask, before > I run some quesitons past you. ( I am not too good on understanding the > whole fatty acid scenario, so thought to ask first as to your background.) > Hope this is o.k. > > Tracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 <<I can say from experience that the vast majority of supplements and modalities are useless...>> What do mean by " experience " ? Have you tried all supplements and all modalities against all health conditions? I think not, since the entire historical record of research combined is but a small fraction of the potential knowledge base. <<.. but like almost all supplements and drugs they only deal with symptoms.>> Drugs - yes (deal with symptoms only) Supplements - no (generally deal more with causes but, like layers of an onion, there can be causes of the causes of the causes...) Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 <<In fact, Dr. Eades (Protein Power Life Plan)...>> Excellent book. <<...says specifically to avoid aquacultured fish because they lack beneficial omega-3 fatty acids! Instead, he encourages people to eat sardines and other wild cold water fishes and take daily doses of cod liver oil.>> I guess that you could also take salmon oil capsules made from wild, deep water (ocean) sources. Sears (Eicotech) goes one step further and moleculary distills his salmon oil to remove PCB and other organic toxic residues in the oil. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Hi Rob Sorry i did not qualify that statement with " In the long run " . No i have not tried everything out there - that might take 2 lifetimes. Have you studied the EFA problem? Did you read all 5 pages of: ? http://www.gsdl.com/assessments/fattyacids/appguide/index.html Have you seen several of the many thousands of web pages on EFAs + diseases??? When you recognize its effects on the the majority of diseases out there - then maybe you will see the commonality of the cause. Rick Rob Bartlett wrote: > <<I can say from experience that the vast majority of supplements and > modalities are useless...>> > > What do mean by " experience " ? Have you tried all supplements and all > modalities against all health conditions? I think not, since the entire > historical record of research combined is but a small fraction of the > potential knowledge base. > > <<.. but like almost all supplements and drugs they only deal with > symptoms.>> > > Drugs - yes (deal with symptoms only) > Supplements - no (generally deal more with causes but, like layers of an > onion, there can be causes of the causes of the causes...) > > Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 - " Donna " <ruthful <gettingwell > Sunday, November 25, 2001 6:14 AM fish oil problems > Hello all. Just want to share my recent fish oil experience and get some feed back. I recently bought some fish oil. No name brand and took about a teaspoon or less. Within an hour my arm pits were itching like crazy. It was really surprising. And then, in the middle of the night I woke up feeling very nauseous and got up to go tinkle and went back to bed and felt like I had a runny nose in the right nostril and blew my nose and it was blood. Alot of blood, not just a little mixed with mucous, But straight liquid blood. I thought that was pretty surprising also. I have not taken any of the cod liver oil since. Hi Donna, I really have a problem with cod liver oil as without heaps of Vit E protection the long chain fatty acids (the Omega 3 EPA and DHA) will be oxidized and not very healthy. Cod liver oil is about 10 times more susceptible to damage than flax oil. That said, it is strange such a small dose of the oil caused such a large effect and so quickly as it takes about 2 hours for long chain fatty acids to get into your blood and even longer to get into your cell membranes and then even longer to alter eicosanoid production. I suspect your cod liver oil should be thrown out and you should get a few Omega 3 fish oil capsules from a reputable supplement manufacturer. ======================== Good Health & Long Life, Greg Watson, gowatson USDA database (food breakdown) http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/ PubMed (research papers) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi DWIDP (nutrient analysis) http://www.walford.com/dwdemo/dw2b63demo.exe KIM (omega analysis) http://ods.od.nih.gov/eicosanoids/KIM_Install.exe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2001 Report Share Posted November 26, 2001 - <Starrisg Sunday, November 25, 2001 7:52 AM Re: fish oil problems > In a message dated 11/24/01 12:47:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, > ruthful writes: > > > I don't know if I will respond to all cod liver oil that way, or this was > > just a really bad off brand. > > Cod liver oil is a good vitamin A & D supplement. For Omega 3's you would > probably do better with fish *body* oil, which is entirely different. Wild > salmon oil, for example. It comes in capsules. I doubt you could ever take > enough fish *liver* oil to get a noticeable amount of Omega 3's without > getting toxic amounts of vitamins A & D. When taking fish body oil, it's a > good idea to take some vitamin E with it. > Hi Starris, Actually the Omega 3 EPA & DHA content of cod liver oil and fish oil is not that much different. I do have concerns about the ability of the cod liver oil to oxidize and go off so I too would lean toward fish oil capsules. I take 500 IU Vit E to help stop free radical damage to the Omegas I use. ======================== Good Health & Long Life, Greg Watson, gowatson USDA database (food breakdown) http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/ PubMed (research papers) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi DWIDP (nutrient analysis) http://www.walford.com/dwdemo/dw2b63demo.exe KIM (omega analysis) http://ods.od.nih.gov/eicosanoids/KIM_Install.exe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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