Can anyone tell me about HBP drugs other than Lasix?

[Guest guest]

Dear Ones,

 

I need a short summary, not reams of quotations from someone's research.

 

I have salt=induced high blood pressure. As long as I don't add salt,

eat canned food or pre-pached meats, my blood pressure is around 120/70

 

I took a Lasix yesterday but my head is still buzzing. It sounds like

the cicadas and crickets up in the park.

 

My grandmother had several strokes, ended up contorted. Her head buzzed.

A friend had two strokes and is in a wheelchair. Her head buzzed. My

baby sister has HBP and her head buzzes once in a while.

 

I am afraid my veins have deteriorated. My legs swelled up like balloons

on levaquin. Several months after they went down, my veins were normal.

I took another strong antibiotic, and my veins in my ankles and legs

started popping out.

 

Could my head be buzzing from weakened veins or is it high blood

pressure?

 

I am interested in meds to lower blood pressure that work on a different

principle than ferosimide.

 

Blessings on you all. LOve. MArge.

[Guest guest]

-

<kombuchamarj

 

Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:04 AM

Can anyone tell me about HBP drugs other than Lasix?

 

 

> I am interested in meds to lower blood pressure that work on a different

> principle than ferosimide.

 

Hi Marge,

 

Do you use any Vit E, ground flax or fish oil?

 

Do you eat much fish? Red meat? Eggs?

 

What is your total cholesterol, hdl, ldl, tgs?

 

What is your weight? Height? BMI?

 

I could suggest several things which will help:

 

1) 500 IU's Vit E

2) 1,000 mg Vit C

3) 100 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid

4) 30 mg Gingko Biloba extract

5) 100 mg grape seed extract

6) 1,000 mg Glutamine

7) 1 tablespoon of Ground flax (Not the oil)

8) 1 serve of fatty fish or 2 fish oil capsules if not eating fish

9) 1 capsule Garlic oil

10) Use more Soy products and less dairy

11) Reduction in ALL veggie oils except non trans canola.

12) Reduction in eggs and red meat to once a week or less

13) Moderate exercise

14) Meditation

 

I can post non commercial medical research abstracts supporting all the above if

you wish.

 

The book, " The Omega Diet " is a very good read. I strongly recommend it! It is

based on solid medical data from

population studies of Mediterranean cultures where heart / circulatory disease

is almost unheard of until they start

eating " Western " .

 

Greg

[Guest guest]

> I am interested in meds to lower blood pressure that work on a different

> principle than ferosimide.

 

Skip the meds! Hyperinsulinemia/insulin resistance is usually the root

problem.

 

The answer is fairly simple: a low carb diet (avoid starches, grains and

sweets; but eat plenty of veggies, especially dark green leafy veggies).

 

Strictly avoid the " bad " fats - hydrogenated fats, margarine, vegetable

oil... Unheated cold-pressed olive and nut oils are fine. Butter is OK

too, especially cultured butter.

 

Moderate exercise and many of the supplements mentioned in the previous post

will help too, especially alpha lipoic acid and GTF chromium (helps improve

insulin sensitivity).

 

Rob

[Guest guest]

> I could suggest several things which will help:

> 10) Use more Soy products and less dairy

 

Soy is unhealthy.

 

> 12) Reduction in eggs and red meat to once a week or less

 

Not necessary and potentially harmful if more dietary calories are directed

towards starches, grains, or sweets.

 

There's virtually no negative association between blood lipid profile and

eggs (i.e., cholesterol in the diet has little effect on cholesterol in the

blood. Besides, blood cholesterol is a weak marker for the risk of coronary

heart disease).

 

The best meat and eggs are from grass-fed animals because the omega 6: omega

3 fatty acids are more in balance (3 or 2:1; instead of 20 or 30:1 from

grain fed animals)

 

Rob

[Guest guest]

-

" Greg Watson " <gowatson

 

Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:20 AM

Re: Can anyone tell me about HBP drugs other than Lasix?

 

 

> I could suggest several things which will help:

>

> 1) 500 IU's Vit E

> 2) 1,000 mg Vit C

> 3) 100 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid

> 4) 30 mg Gingko Biloba extract

> 5) 100 mg grape seed extract

> 6) 1,000 mg Glutamine

> 7) 1 tablespoon of Ground flax (Not the oil)

> 8) 1 serve of fatty fish or 2 fish oil capsules if not eating fish

> 9) 1 capsule Garlic oil

> 10) Use more Soy products and less dairy

> 11) Reduction in ALL veggie oils except non trans canola.

> 12) Reduction in eggs and red meat to once a week or less

> 13) Moderate exercise

> 14) Meditation

 

Forgot to add,

 

15) 200 ug Chromium Picolinate before ever meal.

16) Understanding and using the Glycemic Index and Glycemic load.

17) Reducing fat intake as fat competes with glucose to be burnt / stored and

will worsen insulin resistance.

 

Again I strongly suggest you get a copy of " The Omega Diet " . It works!

 

Greg

[Guest guest]

-

" Rob Bartlett " <rob.bartlett

 

Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:54 AM

Re: Can anyone tell me about HBP drugs other than Lasix?

 

 

> > I could suggest several things which will help:

> > 10) Use more Soy products and less dairy

>

> Soy is unhealthy.

 

Not so. The longest living folks on the planet, the Okinawan Elders use Soy as

one of their main food items. 25 years

of research suggests this is partly due to the high isoflavoid intake (~ 100 mg)

compared to western diets. Also the

isoflavoids are phytoestrogen rich and have strong SERM (Selective Estrogen

Receptor Modifier) activity.

 

Why do you believe Soy is unhealthy?

 

> > 12) Reduction in eggs and red meat to once a week or less

>

> Not necessary and potentially harmful if more dietary calories are directed

> towards starches, grains, or sweets.

>

> There's virtually no negative association between blood lipid profile and

> eggs (i.e., cholesterol in the diet has little effect on cholesterol in the

> blood. Besides, blood cholesterol is a weak marker for the risk of coronary

> heart disease).

 

I was referring to the large amount of proinflammatory Omega 6 arachidonic acid

(AA) in eggs and red meat.

 

> The best meat and eggs are from grass-fed animals because the omega 6: omega

> 3 fatty acids are more in balance (3 or 2:1; instead of 20 or 30:1 from

> grain fed animals)

 

Hi Rob,

 

While it is true grass fed land animals are more Omega balanced, they are still

poor Omega 3 EPA and DHA sources

compared to fish. AND they still have too much Omega 6 AA in their cells.

 

Omega balancing is about more than just boosting Omega 3 LNA, EPA & DHA fatty

acid intake. You also need to address

reducing Omega 6 LA and especially Omega 6 AA intake.

 

Have you checked out the NIH KIM software? It is based on the USDA SR13 food

database and does a real good job on

analysing your diet and showing you the various Omega intakes and then calcs

your probable Omega 6 long chain to Omega 3

long chain membrane ratio and compares it to know CHD levels.

 

Here is a lot of good, solid info on eicosanoids and a series of HIN video casts

to view. This is a good reference

site.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/eicosanoids/index.html

 

Here is the KIM software. You can learn a lot about Omega balancing by trying

different food in your diet. It's a big,

12 mb download but worth the time.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/eicosanoids/KIM_Install.exe

 

Greg

[Guest guest]

> Why do you believe Soy is unhealthy?

 

" A Hawaii study shows a significant statistical relationship between two or

more servings of tofu a week and " accelerated brain aging " and even an

association with Alzheimer's disease, says Dr. Lon White.

 

The test results were about equivalent to what they would have been if they

were five years older, " he said. " Guys who ate [no tofu], their test scores

were as though they were five years younger. "

http://starbulletin.com/1999/11/19/news/index.html

click on " tofu induced 'brain aging' " in right hand column

 

Another web site:

" Soy, much vaunted by nutritionists and vegetarians, is actually a very

harmful food, especially for growing children. Soy is a potent antinutrient,

that is, it prevents the absorption of many vitamins and minerals, including

iron, calcium, and zinc through its high levels of phytic acid, and vitamins

A and D through its anti-enzymatic activity. Furthermore, soy contains

trypsin and papain inhibitors[1]. Trypsin and papain are enzymes which

digest protein , and so although soy contains protein, and tofu has calcium

(which is added during the processing), very little is being absorbed. "

http://pages.hotbot.com/health/tbk3/soy.html

 

Also:

www.truthaboutsoy.com

www.mercola.com/article/soy/index.htm

 

> > > 12) Reduction in eggs and red meat to once a week or less

.... I was referring to the large amount of proinflammatory Omega 6

arachidonic acid (AA) in eggs and red meat.

 

May be more of a factor for AA-sensitive people. AA levels can be reduced

in eggs, of course, by eating the whites only.

 

As far as I know, the balance between omega 3s and 6s is as important as the

absolute intake itself.

 

Rob

[Guest guest]

> 17) Reducing fat intake as fat competes with glucose to be burnt / stored

and will worsen insulin resistance.

 

Fat also leads to satiety (a sense of fullness) thereby limiting the amount

of calories we consume (lower caloric intake improves insulin sensitivity).

Also, fat slows the entrance of glucose into the bloodstream, preventing

glucose and insulin spikes (which also limits insulin sensitivity).

 

Note in the following table that fat with carbs reduces the total insulin

output (compared to carbs alone):

 

Influence of food on insulin and glucagon

Type of food Insulin Glucagon

carb 5+ 0+

protein 2+ 2+

fat no change no change

carb + fat 4+ no change

protein + fat 2+ 2+

high protein/low carb 2+ 1+

high carb/low protein 9+ 1+

 

source: Protein Power, p37

 

Rob

[Guest guest]

-

" Rob Bartlett " <rob.bartlett

 

Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:09 PM

Re: Can anyone tell me about HBP drugs other than Lasix?

 

 

> > Why do you believe Soy is unhealthy?

>

> " A Hawaii study shows a significant statistical relationship between two or

> more servings of tofu a week and " accelerated brain aging " and even an

> association with Alzheimer's disease, says Dr. Lon White.

>

> The test results were about equivalent to what they would have been if they

> were five years older, " he said. " Guys who ate [no tofu], their test scores

> were as though they were five years younger. "

> http://starbulletin.com/1999/11/19/news/index.html

> click on " tofu induced 'brain aging' " in right hand column

 

Here is the paper:

===================

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

0763906 & dopt=Abstract

J Am Coll Nutr 2000 Apr;19(2):242-55 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut

Brain aging and midlife tofu consumption.

White LR, Petrovitch H, Ross GW, Masaki K, Hardman J, Nelson J, Davis D,

Markesbery W.

National Institute on Aging, NIH, USA.

 

OBJECTIVE:

To examine associations of midlife tofu consumption with brain function and

structural changes in late life.

 

METHODS:

The design utilized surviving participants of a longitudinal study established

in 1965 for research on heart disease,

stroke, and cancer. Information on consumption of selected foods was available

from standardized interviews conducted

1965-1967 and 1971-1974. A 4-level composite intake index defined " low-low "

consumption as fewer than two servings of

tofu per week in 1965 and no tofu in the prior week in 1971. Men who reported

two or more servings per week at both

interviews were defined as " high-high " consumers. Intermediate or less

consistent " low " and " high " consumption levels

were also defined. Cognitive functioning was tested at the 1991-1993

examination, when participants were aged 71 to 93

years (n = 3734). Brain atrophy was assessed using neuroimage (n = 574) and

autopsy (n = 290) information. Cognitive

function data were also analyzed for wives of a sample of study participants (n

= 502) who had been living with the

participants at the time of their dietary interviews.

 

RESULTS:

Poor cognitive test performance, enlargement of ventricles and low brain weight

were each significantly and

independently associated with higher midlife tofu consumption. A similar

association of midlife tofu intake with poor

late life cognitive test scores was also observed among wives of cohort members,

using the husband's answers to food

frequency questions as proxy for the wife's consumption. Statistically

significant associations were consistently

demonstrated in linear and logistic multivariate regression models. Odds ratios

comparing endpoints among " high-high "

with " low-low " consumers were mostly in the range of 1.6 to 2.0.

 

CONCLUSIONS:

In this population, higher midlife tofu consumption was independently associated

with indicators of cognitive impairment

and brain atrophy in late life.

 

PMID: 10763906 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

=====================

 

This result is a odds with many, many others showing exactly the opposite and

until it is confirmed, I would not give it

much weight.

 

The population data from the Japanese and Okinawans show exactly the opposite

effect with high cognitive ability

retained in later life. The Okinawans are the longest lived folks on the planet

and they consume ~ 100 mg of

isoflavones a day. They show almost NO dementure, heart disease, osteoporosis

or any of the other " Western " diseases.

 

I good read is the 25 year study of these folks " The Okinawan Program " . Here

are many centuries or diet data showing

soy, fish & whole grain consumption are very life extending.

 

Here is a link to their web site:

http://okicent.org/index.html

 

The book is a must read.

 

> > > > 12) Reduction in eggs and red meat to once a week or less

> ... I was referring to the large amount of proinflammatory Omega 6

> arachidonic acid (AA) in eggs and red meat.

>

> May be more of a factor for AA-sensitive people. AA levels can be reduced

> in eggs, of course, by eating the whites only.

>

> As far as I know, the balance between omega 3s and 6s is as important as the

> absolute intake itself.

 

Hi Rob,

 

With respect, you can't get the balance right without getting the absolutes

right.

 

Omega 6 LA should really be limited to no more than 6 - 7 g per day, then you

can get the balance right.

 

Don't underestimate the ability of high Omega 6 LA intake to totally mess up any

Omega balance program.

 

Here is a good paper to read:

====================

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/1/179

Polyunsaturated fatty acids in the food chain in the United States

 

" To date, no official dietary recommendations have been made for n-3 fatty acids

in the United States.

 

Recommendations for total PUFA intake, however, have been made: 1-2% of energy

from Omega 6 LA (linoleic acid) is

required to prevent a fatty acid deficiency and total PUFA intake should remain

at 7% of energy and not exceed 10% of

energy.

 

Although no formal recommendation for n-3 fatty acid intake has been made in the

United States, a group of nutrition

scientists has recently provided guidelines for specific recommendations for

Omega 3 LNA, EPA, and DHA.

 

This group suggests that intake of Omega 3 LNA be 2.2 g/d and that of EPA and

DHA combined be 0.65 g/d.

 

In addition, this group recommends an upper limit of 6.7 g Omega 6 LA (linoleic

acid)/d. "

=====================

 

The upper limit on Omega 6 LA is VERY important as increasing intake of Omega 3

LNA will inhibit LA to AA conversion and

thus leave elevated levels of Omega 6 LA in the blood which may increase cancer

risk as cancer cells LOVE Omega 6 LA.

 

Greg

[Guest guest]

-

" Rob Bartlett " <rob.bartlett

 

Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:14 PM

Re: Can anyone tell me about HBP drugs other than Lasix?

 

 

> > 17) Reducing fat intake as fat competes with glucose to be burnt / stored

> and will worsen insulin resistance.

>

> Fat also leads to satiety (a sense of fullness) thereby limiting the amount

> of calories we consume (lower caloric intake improves insulin sensitivity).

> Also, fat slows the entrance of glucose into the bloodstream, preventing

> glucose and insulin spikes (which also limits insulin sensitivity).

 

So to does fibre dense veggies and they are low GI with heaps of nutritional

goodies to boot. Also most fats are not

too nutritionally dense. Factror in you get a big post meal lipid hit as after

about 2 hours the meal fats make their

way through the lympth system and into the blood. The next meal may have a

nasty suprise as the increased lipids

actually make the glucose disposal curve worst. May PubMed papers to support

this.

 

Lemon juice and vinegar are even better gastric emptying slowers and without the

high post meal lipid hit.

 

Even better to try to control eating carb rich, fibre & nutition poor carbs.

Why waste the energy?

 

I eat about 1,800 cals with a PCF ratio of about 17 : 60 : 23.

 

Fats are about 45 g total:

 

1) 7 g Omega 6 LA

2) 2.5 g Omega 3 LNA

3) 0.6 g Omega 3 EPA + DHA

4) 10 g Saturated

5) 25 g Monounsaturated

 

Carbs are mostly veggie and whole grain. Very little processed. No sugar, salt

or white flower.

 

Protein is mostly fish, chicken and soy.

 

I'm 55, 6' 3 " , 180 lbs, waist 35 " , BP 105 / 60, pulse 55, total 155, hdl 73, ldl

71, tg 55. Look 45, feel 35!

 

> Note in the following table that fat with carbs reduces the total insulin

> output (compared to carbs alone):

>

> Influence of food on insulin and glucagon

> Type of food Insulin Glucagon

> carb 5+ 0+

> protein 2+ 2+

> fat no change no change

> carb + fat 4+ no change

> protein + fat 2+ 2+

> high protein/low carb 2+ 1+

> high carb/low protein 9+ 1+

 

Hi Rob,

 

Yes I know of Protein Power (read it about 3 years ago). The data is based on

initial insulin and glucose response and

not what happens during the next 4 - 5 hours of a meal. Much more complex than

this chart.

 

Greg

[Guest guest]

When my mum took a very good multi Vit. and Mineral supplement, her blood

pressure came right down to normal. A def. in some of the B vitamins can

cause high blood pressure, esp. niacin.

 

Hope this might help

 

Tracy

-

" Rob Bartlett " <rob.bartlett

 

Wednesday, 14 November 2001 14:17

Re: Can anyone tell me about HBP drugs other than

Lasix?

 

 

> > I am interested in meds to lower blood pressure that work on a different

> > principle than ferosimide.

>

> Skip the meds! Hyperinsulinemia/insulin resistance is usually the root

> problem.

>

> The answer is fairly simple: a low carb diet (avoid starches, grains and

> sweets; but eat plenty of veggies, especially dark green leafy veggies).

>

> Strictly avoid the " bad " fats - hydrogenated fats, margarine, vegetable

> oil... Unheated cold-pressed olive and nut oils are fine. Butter is OK

> too, especially cultured butter.

>

> Moderate exercise and many of the supplements mentioned in the previous

post

> will help too, especially alpha lipoic acid and GTF chromium (helps

improve

> insulin sensitivity).

>

> Rob

>

>

>

>

> Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health

> and well being.

>

> To learn more about the Gettingwell group,

> Subscription and list archives are at:

> Gettingwell

>

>