Vaccine Induced Polio - Crisis in Uganda.

[Guest guest]

(Excellent interview from 2003) Vaccine Induced

Polio - Ugandan Kids Die By 1,000s

From Ned Sloane

7-16-03

Talk given by KIHURA NKUBA, an African radio broadcaster and a phenomenal

human being for his humor and courage in the face of a heavyweight attempt to

eliminate him for exposing what looks like another genocide of African children.

You have to hear the tape to appreciate this heroic individual's sense of humor!

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A Transcript of a talk given by Kihura Nkuba at the National Vaccine Information

Center'sThird International Public Conference on Vaccination November 7-9, 2002

- Arlington, Virginia, aired on C-Span 2 on November 7, 2002.

Contact Kihura Nkuba through Barbara Loe Fisher at The National Vaccine

Information Center

421-E Church Street, Vienna, VA 22180

phone: 703-938-0342 fax: 703-938-5768

--------------------

INTRODUCTION by Barbara L. Fisher:

We're now going to look at oral polio vaccination conducted in Africa. Our

next speaker, known in the pan-African world as Kihura Nkuba, which means " one

who handcuffs lightning and puts thunder in jail " , is founder of Greater African

Radio and president of the East African World Broadcasters Association, and

director of the Pan-African Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Several years ago he began hearing from villagers who were being subjected to

repeated forced live oral polio vaccinations despite reports of injuries and

death among the children. On his radio program he began to speak out and

questioned the safety of giving the children - especially children with HIV - so

many live oral polio vaccinations, rather than giving them the safer " killed "

polio vaccine used in the U.S. and Canada. Since that time, he tells me, he has

been persecuted by the government, World Health Organization and UNICEF, and his

radio station has been driven into bankruptcy.

Kihura is appearing here at great personal and professional risk to tell his

story. It is my great honor and privilege to introduce you to the recipient of

the National Vaccine Information Center's humanitarian award - my good friend

and colleague, Kihura Nkuba.

 

 

 

 

KIHURA NKUBA: I am indeed very honored to be here and to have been invited by

Barbara Fisher and Cathy Wiliams to come and tell my story, which is also my

people's story. Normally, when they ask you to come and speak, you sit there and

think of what's the first word that you'd say, but in listening to my brother

Sunny Bates and Karen Forschner and Stanley Kopps I was [unintelligible] and I

was saying 'My God, if they can do this here in one of the most powerful

countries on Earth, what will happen to me - what will happen to us? If they can

do that in the United States, then you know when it comes to other countries

like Africa and Asia and South America, our chances are pretty slim'.

I did not start off as being a campaigner for other peoples' rights and polio.

I am a pan-Africanist, and by that I mean I believe in equality of thought and

practices that are rooted in the best interests of African people. I spent most

of my time in England teaching film and television, and also running pan-African

conferences for so many African people that live in the Diaspora to mobilize

them to go and do some work in Africa. And by then eventually, I remember it was

at a conference in Manchester and somebody said to me 'You keep telling us about

helping Africa, and however much you feel it's about swimming, one day you have

to remove your clothes and jump into the water. Why don't you go to Africa

yourself ?'

And at that time my wife and I decided to borrow money and raise some, and go

and set up a radio station. And we thought of a radio station because I believe

that just one person with a microphone and a radio can teach more people than a

professor in a good university. So I started Great African Radio in 1999 and,

like most radio stations that you find in Africa, we decided to broadcast in

African languages and record African music and talk about issues that concern

people, like growing food and storing grain and eating fruit and drinking clean

water; and sanitation, and all the other issues that were really not (trained)

into most of the urban stations that broadcast music.

And on this program I ran a program that we call African metaphysics every

night, and some people call it the hour of truth. It's a one and a half hour

program where I talk about literally anything I wish. And it became so popular

that people started organizing in theatres, in assembly halls, in churches and

mosques, and they paid to have me go and speak there. So it was in one of these

lectures I gave in one small town - and normally before I go, because there is

so much interest in my lectures, there is like minders and people who do crowd

control, and they hide me somewhere, and they introduce me last minute so that

people don't see me before they have paid.

Now, when I was in one of those hideouts, I sat with a preacher who started

telling me a story of 1997 during the National Immunization Days. In 1996 the

government of Uganda introduced what they call National Immunization Days. For

those of you who don't know Uganda, Uganda is in East Africa. It is at the

foothills of the Mountains of the Moon just where River Nile begins. And

according to paleontology, archeology, molecular biology, it is one of the

countries that is said to be the source of humanity because now I think

everybody agrees that humanity, from the stage of Australopithecine to

Homosapiens, started in Africa - according to UNESCO anyway. So - and it is

governed as a democracy - quote, unquote - not that it's not a democracy like

you've got here. It's just that I'm always very skeptical when I hear the word

'democracy' mentioned. So they have a parliament. They have a president who is

elected by all those that can vote and then they have a parliament. And in

the northern part of Uganda just in one district there is some trouble by

people who think they should have been president and not they guy who is in

charge.

So I was told by this preacher that when the government introduced the

National Immunization Days in 1997, most of the children after vaccination

started dying. The preacher told me that they had so much death that his

cassock, that he wears to go and conduct the burial ceremony, got old. He said

" I buried the children and my cassock got old. "

In the same room there was one mother who had four children, and she hid one

and took three other children for vaccination, and three children died and that

one survived. Now when I went to do my presentation and I asked most of the

people who were there - about two, three thousand people - each person had the

same story.

Now, in 1992 I believed that vaccination was a good thing. I didn't know very

much about vaccination like most people, and I thought the doctors must really

know what they are doing. So I thought vaccination is a very good thing. But I

had an argument with my wife who didn't want my son to receive vaccinations. So

I started reading about polio, and I think I knew at that time that there were

difficulties with the oral polio vaccine, which I called 'polio Sabin'. So in

this lecture I said " I hope it's not the 'polio Sabin' " . And that was just the

one remark I made. I said " I hope it's not 'polio Sabin' "

Now all my lectures are broadcast every evening, so I'd go before a crowd -

I'd give a lecture and they'd broadcast it on radio at night. And the following

day the government sent people to me to ask me about my remark - you know, what

I meant about " I hope they're not using the 'polio Sabin'. " I didn't know that

that was the polio vaccination they were using in the country, because I think I

had read from literature from the National Vaccine Information Center - the

small consumer - I had a small book, the consumer guide, which must be one of

the most well-read books in Uganda because everybody wanted a copy of it,

including the health officials from the government. So they came to me and asked

me - they said " What did you mean by 'you hope it's not polio Sabin'? " I said

" Well, I hope it's not polio Sabin because, according to the information I have,

it was stopped in America in 1996 because it was a cause of polio in America. "

And they said " Really ? There's no polio in

America. " I said " Yeah ? " The health officials told me they weren't vaccinating

in America, and I said " No, that's not true. I know they vaccinate in America. "

They said " No, because they eliminated wild polio over there. " I said " What do

you mean wild polio ? " They said " Well, there's two types of polio. One is wild

and one is domestic. " So I said " O.K. Of these two polios, which one are you

trying to eliminate in this country? " They said " We're trying to eliminate the

wild polio so you can have the domestic polio because the domestic polio can be

controlled. " And I said " Why don't you leave the wild polio in the bush ? Why do

you have to bring it - why do you have to go and fight wild polio to introduce

it in the house? At least if it is out there then you know at least it's not

threatening inside the house? "

But anyway, soon after that, articles started appearing in the newspapers

about myself, and they claimed that I was not really interested in my people -

in African people, and that to demonstrate that, I had married a white wife -

that I had all my children locked up in England, and they had been vaccinated,

and I had stopped them coming to Africa because if they came to Africa they'd

probably pick up some disease. Now all this was unfortunate for them because at

the time my wife was in Africa and my children; and with all due respect, my

wife was not white, but they tried to show that really I hated (African) people

so much that I couldn't even marry somebody from them.

Now then at that time, the parliament of Uganda, the Minister of Information,

the minister in charge of (the) presidency, started writing the attorney general

to close the radio station because I was broadcasting anti-government messages.

And they sent me civil intelligence to come and interrogate me. At that time

they were saying it wasn't really polio they were interested in. It was that I

had anti- government views and I was plotting to overthrow the government.

Fortunately the intelligence officer who came to interrogate me proved to be

very intelligent. When I told him that really the polio (vaccine) they were

using in Uganda was discontinued in America because it was the sole cause of

polio. And according to the information I had, there was really no polio in

Uganda. There had been no polio. I grew up to be twenty five. I didn't see

anybody with polio. I started seeing polio when I went to the cities where polio

vaccination had taken place. And the more they

challenged me, the more I started digging about polio, you know, to educate

myself and stand ready to go to court or to be charged. And then what the

intelligence officer recommended to government was (that they) bring health

officials to debate me at the radio station so that if I was telling lies, then

they should come and expose me before my very audience. To this the Minister of

Health, who was backed by UNICEF, the United States Agency for International

Development and the World Health Organization, said that really it shouldn't be

like this. I shouldn't debate polio because I'm not a scientist. Now I have been

a broadcaster for more than fourteen years, and all I was saying was not that

people should not go for vaccination, but that if they are to go for

vaccination, if there is a vaccine that is deemed to be safe, then that's what

they should use. And then by a stroke of good luck somebody brought me an insert

that comes with the polio vaccine, and it was from

Pasteur-Mer???? a French company that manufactures the polio vaccine, and that

was the one that was used in 1997 when children started dying in large numbers.

And when I looked at the contra-indications it stated that inactivated polio

vaccine and not oral polio vaccine should be used in situations where families

had HIV - where there was a history of HIV in the family. And when I got this

information I was really shocked because since 1984 Uganda has had a very

difficult HIV and AIDS problem. In fact it says that if a child is inadvertently

given the oral polio vaccine, that that child should be quarantined for four to

seven weeks because oral polio vaccine is " live " and they keep shedding it

between that period, and they could contaminate other people. So I was saying

here is the manufacturer who is writing for anybody who could read English that

please do not give this oral polio vaccine to population that have HIV and here

is the Ministry of Health which, in its own

wisdom, says this has to be used here.

So, armed with this insert from the manufacturer, I decided to install

wireless internet in the radio station and also to see what other people were

saying. At that time one of the main advisors to the government of Uganda was

the Centers for Disease Control - one of the most respected agencies in the

world. So I tried to see what the Centers for Disease Control was saying about

this oral polio vaccine, which should not be used according to the manufacturer,

and the Centers for Disease Control was even more clear than the manufacturer.

In fact, this is what it says. It says that persons who have congenitally

acquired immune deficiency disease -e.g. combined immune deficiency, blah, blah

- should not be given oral polio vaccine because of their substantially

increased risk for vaccine associated disease. Now, they continue: they say

" inactivated polio vaccine and not oral polio vaccine should be used to

vaccinate immunodeficient persons and their household contacts. " So I

said if this is the Centers for Disease Control which is advising the

government of Uganda, and it is saying we should not use oral polio vaccine, and

here is the manufacturer saying oral polio vaccine should not be used, now why

should oral polio vaccine be used here ?

And then at the time, because of the heightened tension that the Minister of

Health was bringing to bear on the radio station, then other people started

throwing their own questions. And they went like this : In Africa polio does not

kill anybody and they say it's very rare to catch. It's really very rare to get

paralytic polio. They say it's in very rare circumstances, so what is it that is

killing people in Africa ? Malaria. Every five seconds a child is dying of

malaria in Africa. Now to get the dose of life-saving anti-malaria is about $5

but there is no government to give anti-malaria. When somebody gets malaria, if

they have no money they even die. So the question I was asking and many people

were asking was 'If you really want to help children, why begin with a disease

that they don't have ? (applause) Why not look for something that is killing

them and save them from what is killing them ?' And then (inaudible)

.............. 'you know what, I like you very much. I

save your children from this killer disease. Now there are no other diseases

apart from this rare polio, so let's go and fight that as well.' But you don't

begin with the rarest disease and spend all the government's meagre resources

fighting polio, which is not a threat to most people, and then ignore something

that is killing them in large numbers like malaria, like AIDS, like cholera,

issues to do with sanitation, stunted growth - all the main things that matter

to people the government was not fighting. So what they decided to do was to

appeal to the president and say... and the president says to them 'What you

could do is go and take him to court and if the court decides that he's giving

false information, then charge him with sedition which carries and death

sentence or a life sentence.' So when they told me this I said 'Well, if I am to

die' - I think there is an American poet called McCain, and he had a poem which

was " If I Am To Die " . So if I was to die, I did not

want to take anybody with me, but I really have to give people a run for their

money. So I decided to use the experience that I had gained in broadcasting and

research for over 14 years to research everything that I could find out about

polio to prepare myself for the ultimate challenge if I was to go to court.

I discovered that really the whole concept of vaccination is like getting a

disease, putting it in an undiseased person to cure a disease that person hasn't

got. It's like if you have an army and it's fighting an enemy, and then you

bring the enemy into the barracks just to see if the soldiers can defend

themselves should an enemy surprise them. I mean, you don't do such things in a

war. And then I started asking myself - humanity has lived in Africa for 5.5

million years from the stage of Australopithecines to Homo sapiens. Polio

vaccination in Uganda started in 1963. So if we were all to die of polio like

the Minister of Health was telling us, we would have died by 1963 and it would

have been 'case closed'. There would have been nobody to vaccinate. So the fact

that we have survived 5.5 million years without polio vaccination shows that

people can survive without it. (applause) And if really somebody is that

desperate for the vaccine, then let's look for a vaccine that

- you know - somebody says 'This is safer than the other.' Because the

manufacturer who should know more than the Minister of Health that we have, or

the World Health Organization, says 'Do not use this in this country.'

Now, when they wrote to the attorney general and the attorney general asked me

to come and make my representation, and I went to the attorney general and gave

him my views of what I thought of inactivated polio vaccine - and basically my

case was simple. This oral polio vaccine was discontinued in America. Why ?

Because it's a cause of polio, and you're telling me that the minister of health

here wants to (use it) to stop polio. You don't stop polio by bringing something

that causes polio, and giving it to people. You stop polio by bringing something

that will prevent it. That was my first argument. The second argument was - the

manufacturer says don't use it, and since the minister of health and myself are

not manufacturers, we have to wait for that time when the manufacturer says 'Use

it'. And the attorney general says 'O.K. I don't think he can be prosecuted.'

And he wrote to the minister of health and the minister of information and said

'I think you have a weak case.

If you took this person to court you'd probably lose.' So what they decided to

do then was to use what they call the broadcast council, and the broadcast

council is the one that gives licenses for broad- casters. So you couldn't

broadcast without the broadcast council.

I have to say that at that time every government minister, every member of

parliament was talking about the radio station as how we are misleading the

public - giving false information - really they were calling me a child killer

and everything, and most of my advertisers completely fled, because in Uganda

80% of the advertisers is the government anyway. And the government was not

going to advertise with the radio station that was giving it that trouble. So

the broadcast council then wrote to me saying that I was giving information that

was deemed to be anti-government and anti-people, and they were going to

withdraw the license. In fact, to back their words up, the minister of

information came to the council hall where the radio is based with soldiers and

the police and local counselors and district medical officers, and they called

me and he had a pen in his hand and he said 'This is what I want you to do. I

want you to go on radio tonight on your popular program and

tell people that polio Sabin is safe - that they can have it and that you

support it. If you don't do this I am going to sign, recommending that your

radio station be closed, and by tomorrow you won't be on air. I looked at the

handsome minister if information in the face and I said " Go to heaven and stay

there " because I was not going to do such a thing. (applause) I did not believe

that oral polio vaccine was safe and I was not going to tell anybody to mislead

the public that it was.

So when he left I expected the radio station to be closed, and what I did is I

went off air. I stopped broadcasting my program voluntarily. So I stopped the

broadcasting. So what happened was really a revolution because people waited for

my program to come, and what they did - they decided to come to the radio

station and mount a vigil - and before long I had over ten thousand people at

the radio station - taxi drivers threatening to block the road - I had riots in

almost every town demanding that my program come back on air. And at that time

information had gone (out) that the government was really raining down on me

because of oral polio vaccine, and that's what upset people. They said 'What's

in polio (vaccine) that you really want to give to us ? When we want clothes,

you can't give us clothes. When we want education you can't give us education.

When our children die you can't give us coffins or even come and assist us. Why

are you forcing polio (vaccine) on us ? If

it's so good why can't we see the benefit of it ? " You know because it was

their children dying. And then they started narrating all these stories..... At

the main hospital in Mbarara during that month of 1977 more than 600 children

had died following polio vaccination. 600 children ! So even some of the timid

medical practitioners who were initially afraid to come out, started coming out

giving information and saying 'Oh, we knew this oral polio vaccine was trouble

because as soon as the child receives it, they get a temperature and their

health goes downhill and there is nothing that you could do.' So the mothers

said they would not take their children for oral polio vaccination. And this

information was going back to the government at the capitol. So what the

government decided to do was to say let's send a team of experts to come and

debate me at the radio (station) on my program. I have to tell you that on that

day in the month of July - I think July 22nd - some date

like that - all the town sold out of radios and mobile phones because they were

ready to ring inside the radio station and tell the doctors that really it

should be their choice to decide what is given to their children, and it

shouldn't be the choice of the doctors (applause); and that whether they agreed

with me or not, that both sides should present their information to the parents

so that the parents can make a choice. Now I thought that these doctors were

going to come with thousands of books and evidence and references, and I spent

two weeks preparing myself. I ordered books from Australia and Britain, and

Barbara sent me some literature, and I didn't sleep for almost a week. I was

reading day and night trying to educate myself about immunity - how the body's

immunity works. I was trying to educate myself about viruses jumping species and

immuno-suppressive treatments, and I learned about - for example - the Marburg

virus which appeared in Germany in 1967

[unintelligible] from a [unintelligible] laboratory that they were developing

oral polio vaccine, and actually the monkeys had come from Uganda. So the monkey

viruses had jumped from - had been - some of the viruses that lie dormant in

some of these species for a long time - if you take these viruses and put them

in the human body, they could do anything. And one of the things they did was to

give Marburg, which is a cousin to ebola. In fact, after reading that

information I predicted [what year ? N.S.] that there would be ebola in Uganda

because of these vaccinations, and there WAS ebola in Uganda a year after ! So

they started saying I was a prophet !

So when they came, here am I in the studio thinking 'God ! These are the real

experts. How am I going to handle them ? I'm just a broadcaster - somebody who

has questions that any right-thinking member of the society should ask.' And

when they came they were more scared than I was, and they started saying 'You

know, we really apologize because... one of the leaders of the team of the

district medical officer said 'You know what ? I have never read even a medical

journal since I left medical school. We have no internet. I cannot afford to buy

new books. How would I know what is safe or what is not ? All I know is that the

World Health Organization says it's safe. UNICEF says it's safe, and all these

other agencies say it's safe. So if it is safe then we must use it.' and then my

first question was 'Well, why didn't the World Health Organization say it was

safe for America to use ? Doesn't the jurisdiction of UNICEF extend to America?

If they stopped it in America why

should we use it here ?' And people were saying to them 'O.K. - you are the

physicians. You studied the same things as the physicians who manufactured this

vaccine.' And they said 'Yeah. You know, when you are a physician you don't want

to say No, I didn't study that. I'm sorry - I went to school but I didn't study

what you studied.' They said 'Yeah, we did. We studied exactly the same thing.'

And I said 'O.K. Why do we have to import the vaccine anyway ? Why can't we

manufacture the vaccine here if you know what goes in it ?' And they said 'Oh,

that's a problem. We don't have factories.' And then people were ringing in to

the studio asking - 'We had our own way of ensuring our children’s' immunity.

You know, when a child was born there was an assortment of herbs that were

collected from the wild, and then they were boiled, and every day the child

would bathe in these herbs for six months, and a little bit of the herbs would

be given to the child to drink.' And it was in

this debate that most of the physicians admitted that that method was as

effective as the immunization that was being carried out. So people were saying

'Well, if we have this method that had proved very good for us all this time,

why are you giving us oral polio ? And why are you not fighting the diseases

that affect us ? And most significantly : where are all these so-called

paralyzed people - all our people that are physically challenged - that you said

existed in villages ?'

And at that time we had marshalled the people that had contracted polio after

immunization, and they were in the studio with us. In that debate most of the

people that had come to debate us ran out of the studio, and they could not

answer the questions from the people. And the national newspapers splashed these

headlines so that even in other parts of the country where my radio station was

not reaching started picking up the story. The World Health Organization got

worried. UNICEF got worried. UNICEF representatives came to the station to

appeal to me, saying 'Well, we know you have a case but you are giving it to the

wrong audience. I mean these people don't understand what you are saying. If you

are talking to people in cities - you know, people in villages - they cannot

understand the argument. Polio is good. O.K. it may have some difficulties, but

why don't you come and join us ? Then we will support you and give you more

advertising.' And... I didn't think it was an

advertising issue. I thought it was a moral issue at the time.

But just for them to prove their case, one time I'm leaving Mbarara, which is

where my radio station was based, and I'm going to Kampala - 250 miles away -

and in my driving mirror I see two pickup trucks following me. And they must

have followed me for about 100 miles. I noticed it because the two people that

were driving were white, and there aren't a lot of white people in that region.

So when I saw them following me I stopped - they slow down and overtake me and

when I went back on the road I see them again. I said I thought I was in

trouble. So I reached the next town, turned off my engine and waited for about

two hours, and I thought I must have lost them. So I jumped on the road again. I

am driving full speed - about maybe 120 MPH because I am late. I was going to

get my son from the airport and I had already lost two hours trying to avoid

people who were following me, and Lo and behold one of the pickup trucks is in

my driving mirror again. And I am going downhill

and this guy comes and over-takes me, gets in front of me and brakes. He had a

big pickup truck and behind there were bull bars (?) And the other pickup that

is behind me is also very close to my bumper. So I tried to avoid by going off

on the right side of the road. In Uganda they drive on the left - and he also

goes on the right side of the road. When I attempt to come back onto the road my

vehicle starts overturning and it must have overturned about 15 times. The

vehicle was totally mashed up, and it was near a small town. Everybody thought

nobody could escape from that car. I thought I had died. I was still breathing.

I could hear myself breathing, but I thought I had died. I looked at the mashed

car and the smashed windows, and I thought 'Maybe heaven looks this ugly.' So

eventually people came and they cut the door, and I waited to see... because

when it overturned it knocked somebody who was on a bicycle, but the person

didn't die. And it knocked banana trees . It

was horrible. But I came out. When I stepped out everybody started running.

They thought it was a ghost walking - some kind of dead man walking. So one of

the people recognized me, and they took me to hospital, and they found I had

just sustained very minor injuries.

So I knew that they were going to make their point and they were going to make

it very well. But at that time I think I had passed the door of no return, and I

could not take a step backwards. So the minister of health knew that if they

lost the debate it would be very difficult for them. Because in speaking to

Barbara I also understand that here you follow a certain regime - like you give

certain doses in certain years, and after that it's finished. In Uganda or Kenya

or Tanzania it's not like that. You have what they call routine where your

children keep getting all these vaccines. And then they have National

Immunization Days. It doesn't care whether you go through the immunization or

whether you were immunized last year. You come this year and they still give you

the same thing. So for polio, for measles there is no end. It's that

complicated.

So what happened then was the government then decided to say 'Well, those

experts that came weren't really experts. They were some kind of experts but

they are not experts. And these are the experts that are now going to come in

the final debate on radio.' And I said 'O.K. The experts can come because my

questions are still the same.' So they brought now a team of other experts which

was supposed to be the final team of experts, and when they came this was my

first question : 'Tell us - you say that this oral polio virus is attenuated,

which means weakened. What does that mean ?' And the guy says 'Well, it's not

really a virus. It's the jacket of a virus.' 'It's a live virus.' 'It's an

attenuated live virus.' And they started saying 'No, it's not a live virus. It's

the jacket of a virus.' Then another one said 'No no no' And this is live on

radio so the experts from the ministry of health are contradicting themselves in

a live debate listened to by more than 15 million

people who for a long time have trusted doctors as really people who should

know everything about vaccines. And one of them said 'No, it's not a jacket. You

can't say it's a jacket. It's just harmless.' O.K. well if it's harmless, and if

the virus goes into the body, it can do several things. It can lie dormant; it

can die, or it can become potent.

And then people were ringing and saying 'What would you call a virus in the

local language ?' And one of the experts called it a small animal, and that's

where problems started because then another caller would ring in and say 'Well,

if it's a small animal, what does it eat ? And if you don't give it food and it

gets really hungry, what would happen ? Won't it attack the body's immune system

?' Now you may find this hilarious and laugh, but really those are deep

philosophical questions that scientists grapple with. When a virus gets in your

body it can do several things. It can die. It can sleep, or it can become potent

or virulent. And if that happens, then you have a problem. So this expert debate

didn't do the work, because what people were interested in was to hear why it is

possible that they cannot get the killed virus. And the answer was that it would

be too expensive - it would be too expensive to give the killed virus to the

population.

And then the people said 'O.K. if it's too expensive, we don't want the cheap

one. We think at least we are worth five dollars or ten dollars, or something

like this. So if you can't bring the inoculated polio virus, we are not going to

have the oral polio.' And that's what they did. But the government was ready for

them - not really the government - the minister of health, the World Health

Organization and the UNICEF. They mobilized the army, and the police and moved

from house to house. They had asked the local authorities to do a list of people

who had children, so they moved from house to house grabbing children at

gunpoint and vaccinating them.

Now those that knew - as soon as the army got into the village - the rest of

the people who had children would run into the bush, and they stayed there for a

week. And there is the story of this child who was met on the road, and they

grabbed him and asked him whether he was immunized, and he said 'Yes'. He lied

to them - said 'Yes' - He was running away, but he said 'Yes' and they said

'Well, we still have to immunize you anyway. So they got the (dose). They put it

in his mouth and the child spit it out - first time. They put it a second time

(spit) - third (spit) - fourth (spit) and then they hit the child and then the

child ran away unvaccinated. So it became a very difficult exercise, and the

government put all the blame on me. They said it must have been me who had

learned all these hypno-therapeutic techniques and had (majored ?) in

psycho-cranial therapies, and I was an agent of all these organizations abroad

that really do not believe in traditional medicine; and

I had hypnotized the population so that they were not able to respond to

government messages on vaccination - something that was totally good for them.

Now the thing was - those that went for vaccination came immediately to report

reactions, and a good many of them lost their children. Those that did not go

for vaccination did not have the same reaction. So they would be ringing in to

the radio station and saying 'Well, I vaccinated my child and this is what

happened.' I know this is what was happening even before we started, but they

had no way of expressing themselves. They had no means. So at this stage most

people really got convinced that there must be a relationship between having a

history of HIV... I have to tell you HIV is very big in Uganda - very big in

East Africa. I was born in a family of eleven, but from 1987 up to today I have

lost eight members of my family through HIV. So when the manufacturer says 'Do

not give this vaccine to families that have a history

of HIV' there are no families in Uganda that have no history of HIV. Everybody

knows somebody who has died or has lost an uncle or a brother's wife or his

children through HIV. And it's that relationship that people were able to put

together saying 'Maybe really the oral polio vaccine, when given to population

that has HIV - when live vaccine is given to a population that has HIV, it

produces that reaction.'

But for me, up to today, that is still the situation. The oral polio vaccine

in Uganda, northern Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, Congo and part of Kenya has

become a hotly contested debate. Thousands of people, during the National

Immunization Days in the months of July and September, go into the bush and stay

there for weeks. The army and the police move house to house looking for

children to vaccinate. At the same time, things that kill children like malaria,

cholera, issues of stunted growth, sanitation, are completely untackled.

Now - last year I came to Washington to give a lecture to the Voice of

America, and I decided to ring the Centers for Disease Control. Normally when I

travel I record my travel and I do a travel program. So I tell people what I'm

seeing because I know the majority of my people have no chance of travelling -

so I describe the situation to them. And I rang the Centers for Disease Control

and they have a line of experts that you can ask different questions. And I said

'I am living in America and I want to go to Uganda, and my children have not

received oral polio vaccination. And they said 'No, they can't receive oral

polio vaccination in this country.' I said 'Why not ?' and they said 'Well, you

can get polio from oral polio vaccination.' And I said 'Is this the Centers for

Disease Control?' and they said 'Yes'. 'Are you sure you are not the Centers for

Disease Uncontrol?' They said 'No, we are the Centers for Disease Control - the

real McCoy.' So I said 'What if I have a

history of HIV and I receive oral polio?' They said 'That would be really

pretty dangerous. It could be a death sentence.' (And I said) can I have your

name ?' 'No, you can't have my name. You can have a reference number.' I said

'O.K.' but I recorded this, and when I went back I played it on radio.

(applause) I said 'Well, this is not me now. You can't arrest me. You have to

arrest the Centers for Disease Control, because, I mean, it's them doing the

talking. It's not me. I have just given them space on the radio!'

So the minister of health said 'O.K. this is what we're going to do. We're

going to invite you and you'll come and sit with all the experts from World

Health Organization, from UNICEF and the minister of health, and we'll do a

deal.' So what I did - I went to the website of the Centers for Disease Control.

I photocopied a big document on vaccine reactions, and I took it with me. So I

sat before the minister of health and I said 'Well, before we can do any deal, I

just want to see what our very good friends from the Centers for Disease Control

say about vaccine reactions - particularly polio.' And the minister gave it to

the head of public health, and the head of public health looks at this document

and says 'This is not a genuine CDC document. This is from the internet.' And I

said 'So what? It's from the internet - the CDC on the internet. This is the

21st Century!' He said 'No, it's not.' And I said 'O.K. At the bottom there is

a number, and it says you can ring this

number. Why don't we ring the Centers for Disease Control? Here is a mobile

phone.' And he said 'No, we can't ring them. We wouldn't know if it was the CDC

answering.' So what do we do? They said 'We'll send the document to the embassy

and ask the embassy to verify if it's a CDC document.' 'Oh' I said - 'Well, you

have an expert from the CDC in Kampala. Why don't you call that expert to

verify?' He said 'No, he's sick. He's not available for verification.' So I

said 'O.K. I will do a deal with you only after you verify that this is a

genuine CDC document. We'll give each other 24 hours. You go and do your

verification, and then after that I'll come and we can deal.' 24 hours. No

reaction. One week - one month - I am still waiting.

But in the meantime I had two radio stations. One of them is now closed. I

employed over 60 people. I am 6 months in arrears. I can't afford to pay them.

As I speak I have not a single advertiser on my radio station that has an

audience of more than 50 million. My radio program, when it goes on air - even

buses that carry people stop to listen to my program for one and a half hours.

And I have already told you that people even pay to hear me speak. But I have

taken a bank loan from England. My house is up for grabs, including all my books

and my videos and everything - just for asking simple questions as 'Why don't

you fight a disease that kills people instead of one that has a theoretical risk

of attacking them? Why don't you deal with issues that people want you to deal

with, and maybe after you have dealt with that, then you can deal with oral

polio vaccine? Why use a vaccine that was discontinued in America - which is a

technological nation where people should know -

and you use it here? Why at least can't you say to people " Pay for the killed

vaccine " so that they get the vaccine that, according to the manufacturer, would

be less harmful?'

That is my story. I am not opposed to vaccination. I have not gone out to

cause trouble for anybody. It's just I felt as a broadcaster my job is to ask

questions that my audiences would have asked had they been in the same position

that I was, or had the opportunity to meet the people that matter. So - and

that's what I did. Instead of giving me appropriate answers, I was victimized.

One government minister said the experts from the ministry of health had carried

out a study and they had found me mad! And I said 'Well, if you say I am mad, I

think you could say it's mutually assured destruction, and definitely this

poison would have mutually assured us of destruction.' So in my own madness it

seems I was the only person that could stand in front of millions of people to

ask legitimate questions.

I know one thing - that people who have lost their children as a result of

taking oral polio vaccine will not be going for immunization unless that policy

is changed. I also know - I think if you go to the website of the World Health

Organization you'll find my name - you know they depict me as this anti-polio

campaigner and whatever, which I am not - But I also know that the World Health

Organization, UNICEF and all these agencies are really looking for what they

call victory - to vaccinate the last child. And they are saying that right now

the person who stands in front of them is myself.

For more than six months I have not been on radio broadcasting because I was

involved in a conflict in eastern Congo - in the Democratic Republic of Congo -

and it was the center that I ran, called the Pan-African Center for Strategic

and International Studies that began the peace initiative about a year ago that

led to different peace accords that have been signed to bring peace in this

country. And one of the peace conferences was chaired by myself for more than

six months. Now I also know that the population is not going to accept these

oral polio vaccinations unless they change to killed vaccine. But for the

government and for the minister of health, and all the other agencies, they will

continue to look at me as the enemy. I have been out of radio for this period of

time, but still there is very little people going for vaccination, and the

government is pouring in more money - millions and millions of dollars of meagre

resources that a small country like Uganda

cannot afford. And most of that is really going into misinformation - a

campaign against me. That's my story. Thank you very much.

********************************************************************************\

***********

PRESENTERS: The National Vaccine Information Center Third International Public

Conference on Vaccination Arlington, Virginia, November 7. 2002

Major Sonnie Bates (Retired) - Anthrax Vaccine in the Military. Retired

military pilot who worked against the anthrax vaccine policy in the military.

This presentation will focus on his personal story and the stories of other

young U.S. military officers who reacted to and then protested forced use of the

anthrax vaccine.

Karen Forschner - Lyme Disease and Lyme Vaccine: A Mother's Perspective.

Founder and president of the Lyme Disease Foundation, she will talk about her

investigation into the dangers of a Lyme vaccine she helped to get developed

after her son died of Lyme disease and how she has fought to get the vaccine off

the market after tracking the many adverse events from the vaccine.

Bernard Rimland, Ph.D. - Regressive Autism and Vaccination. President of the

Autism Research Institute, he will give a historical retrospective of the

changing face of autism and its association with vaccines. (Did not speak)

Paul Shattock, O.B.E. - Measles, Chicken Pox and Neuroimmune Dysfunction. An

autism expert from Great Britain will review new data about the association

between the development of autism and exposure to live measles and chickenpox

viruses.

November 8, 2002

Boyd Haley, Ph.D. - Mercury and Brain Dysfunction. New information will be

presented about mercury toxicity and the role of the vaccine preservative,

Thimerosal in vaccine induced neuroimmune dysfunction leading to developmental

delays.

Andrew Wakefield, M.D. - MMR, Enterocolitis and Autism. A British

gastroenterologist, will discuss new pathological findings documenting that many

children who develop regressive autism and chronic bowel inflammation after MMR

vaccination are suffering from persistent vaccine strain measles virus

infection.

Paul Fawcett, Ph.D. - Lyme Vaccine and Neuroimmune Dysfunction. A senior

research scientist, will present new data about the biological mechanism of Lyme

vaccine-induced autoimmune and neurological dysfunction.

Eric Hurwitz, Ph.D., D.C. - Vaccination and Allergic Disease. Dr. Hurwitz will

review the epidemiological and clinical evidence that vaccines are one of the

many genetic and environmental factors that have contributed to significant

increases in allergic disease, such as asthma in children.

Walter Schumm, Ph.D.,- Anthrax Vaccine and Chronic Illness. Dr. Schumm will

present his published study on the experience of the Gulf War veterans with

anthrax vaccination.

Kathryn Carbone, M.D. - Virus Vaccines and Neurovirulence. Dr. Carbone will

discuss the basic science research being conducted at the Food and Drug

Administration on neurovirulence testing for virus vaccines that will help

further the understanding of the biological mechanisms of vaccine adverse

responses.

John Lednicky, Ph.D.. - Simian Virus-40 and Human Cancers. Dr. Lednicky will

discuss the relationship between simian virus-40, identified in early polio

vaccines and human cancers.

Adil Shamoo, Ph.D. - Ethics and Conflicts of Interest in Clinical Trials. Dr.

Shamoo will review the ethics and conflicts of interest in clinical trials and

the use of human subjects.

Barbara Loe Fisher - Keynote Address - As the president and co-founder of the

National Vaccine Information Center, she will discuss the need for better and

complete science into the biological mechanism of vaccine induced injury and

death. She will also discuss the right to informed consent to vaccination.

November 9. 2002

Philip Incao, M.D. -The Paradigm Shift - An overview of why a paradigm shift

is occurring in health care as more families embrace preventive health care

options that do not rely so heavily on vaccination.

Gerald Clum, D.C. The Role of Chiropractic in our Health Care System. Dr. Clum

will discuss the resurgence of interest in alternatives to allopathic medicine

and the role of chiropractic in preventive health care.

Stephanie Cave, M.D. - Vaccine Injury Therapy: An Holistic Approach. Dr. Cave

will give an overview of the treatment protocol she is using to help vaccine

injured children, including the use of chelation therapy to remove heavy metals.

Sherri Tenpenny, D.O.- Vaccine Injury Therapy: An Holistic Approach. Dr.

Tenpenny along with Dr. Cave will discuss the therapy protocol she uses to help

vaccine injured children which includes osteopathy and allergy elimination.

Mary Megson, M.D. - Genetics, Vaccine Injury and Getting Well. Dr. Megson will

discuss her original work of the use of vitamin A in helping children who have

been injured by the dpt vaccine. Her work focuses on genetic predisposition to

vaccine injury.

Mark Geier, M.D. -Vaccine Reaction Report Analysis. As a geneticist and

vaccine injury expert, Dr. Geier will discuss his published analyses of data

from the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) in which he

compares the reactivity of many of the mandated childhood vaccines. His son

David Geier will share the platform with him.

Diana Cregar, B.S. - Using Technology to Map Vaccine Adverse Events. This

expert in technology will show how the use of emerging technology and computer

data systems can map the epidemiology of vaccine adverse events.

Sue Blevins, R.N., M.P.H., Technology, Privacy and Informed Consent. President

of the Health Freedom Institute, she will document the alarming use of

technology, including computerized vaccine tracking systems, and the passage of

recent laws which eliminate privacy and informed consent protections in health

care and human research.

Katie Corrigan - Model State Emergency Health Powers Act. A legislative expert

from the American Civil Liberties Union will discuss the threat to civil

liberties posed by the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act being passed in

many states that allow public health officials to use the state militia to

arrest, quarantine and forcibly vaccinate citizens without their informed

consent.

George Annas, J.D., M.P.H. - Bioterrorism, Public Health and Civil Liberties.

A leading ethicist he will discuss the latest scares from possible use of

bioterrorism and how it relates to the question of informed consent, forced

vaccination and quarantine.

Jeff Thompson, Esq. - Vaccine Injury Compensation: Federal and Civil. This

leading attorney will review the need for amendments to the National Childhood

Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 to restore the spirit and intent of the original law

or a return to vaccine injury litigation against vaccine manufacturers.

Matthew Staver, J.D. -- Defending the Religious Exemption to Vaccination. This

presentation will defend the integrity of the religious exemption to vaccination

on the basis of the Constitution of the United States.

Lynn Friedman, D.C. - Testimonial. Dr. Friedman will discuss her pending case

in New York federal court and will relate the harrowing experience of trying to

exercise her right to hold sincere religious beliefs opposing vaccination.

Michael Palmer, M.D. - Fatal: A Vaccine Thriller. Best selling author will

discuss why he wrote FATAL and what he learned during his research into the

science and politics of vaccination.

[For some reason Kihura Nkuba is not on the presenters' list, but is in the

tape duplication service's list of tapes available from the conference. (His

tape is entitled " Polio Vaccine Campaigns in Africa - # VACO2-3).

Contact REPEAT PERFORMANCE - 2911 Crabapple Lane, Hobart, IN 46342 -

219-465-1234 - Fax -219-477-5492

Cassette Tapes available from Repeat Performance :

O VAC02- 1 " Anthrax Vaccinatlon In the Mliltary: One Pilots Story " , Major Sonnie

Bates Anthrax Vaccine Testimonlal

O VAC02- 2 Lyme Disease and Lyme Vaccine: A Mother's Perspective, Karen

Vanderfhoof Forschner Lyme Vaccine Testimonlal

O VAC02 - 3 Pollo Vaccine Campalgns In Africa, Kihura Nkuba

O VAC02- 4 Regressive Autism and Vaccinatlon, Andrew Wakefield, M.D.

Regressive AutismTestimonlal, Rick Rollens

O VAC02- 5 Measles, Chickenpox and Neurolmmune Dysfunctlon, Paul Shattock.

O.B.E Questlons and Answers

O VAC02- 6 Mercury and Braln Dysfunction, Boyd Haley, Ph.D.

O VAC02- 7 MMR, Enterocolitis and Autism, Andrew Wakefield, M.D. Autism/MMR

vaccine Testimonlal

*VAC02- 8 Lyme Vaccine and Neuroimmune Dysfunctlon, Paul Fawcett, Ph.D.

*VAC02- 9 Vaccinatlon and Allergic Dlsease, Eric Hurwitz, Ph.D., D.C.

*VAC02- 10 Anthrax Vaccine and Chronic Illness, Walter Schumm, Ph.D. Vlrus

Vaccines and Neurovirulence, Kathryn Carbone, M.D.

*VAC02- 11 SV40 and Human Cancers, John Lednicky, M.D. Smallpox and Smallpox

Vaccine, Mark Geier, M.D.

*VAC02- 12 Ethics and Conflicts of Interest in Clinical Trials, Adil Shamoo,

Ph.D.

*VAC02 - KN1 Keynote Address, Barbara Loe Fsher

*VAC02~13 Fund Raising Dinner: Truth and Consequences In Sclence, Andrew

Wakefield, M.D.

*VAC02- 14 The Paradigm Shift, Philip Incao, M.D. Role of Chiropractic In

Health Care, Gerard Clum, D.C., H.C.D.

*VAC02-15 Vaccine Injury Therapy: An Hoilstic Approach, Stephanie Cave, M.D.,

Sherri Tenpenny, D.O.

*VAC02 -16 Genetics, Vaccine InJury and Getting Well, Mary Megson, M.D.

Questlons and Answers

*VAC02 -17 VAERS Vaccine Reactlon Report Analysis, Mark Geier, M.D., David

Geier Questions and Answers

*VAC02-18 Using Technology to Map Vaccine Related Neuroimmune Illness, Diana

Cregar, B.S. Technology, Privacy and Informed Consent, Sue Blevins, MPH

*VAC02-19 Model State Emergency Health Powers Act, Katie Corcigan

Bioterrorlsm, Pubilc Health and Clvil Libertles, George Annas, J.D., MPH

*VAC02 - 20 Q & A Vaccine Iniury Compensation: Federal and Civil, Jeffrey S.

Thompson, J.D.

*VAC02 - 21 Defending the Religlous Exemptlon to Vaccinatlon, Mathew Staver,

J.D. Faith and Vaccinatlon, Lynn Friedman, D.C.

*VACO2 - KN2 Dlnner; Mlchael Palmer, M.D., Author of FATAL, NY Tlmes

Bestseller

 

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