Guest guest Posted August 19, 2001 Report Share Posted August 19, 2001 I have some follow up questions on celibacy and spiritual life following Anup and Brad. 1) Swami Vivekananda in Raja Yoga says that celibacy is a pre requisite to advance spiritually. He does not give an " operational definition " or does he anywhere else? - is abstinence form sex the only requirement? Are there others? What about one's thoughts and words? 2) Thakurji mentions in one of his utternaces that his life is a guide for householders to realize god. Even if the average person followed 1/16th of what he did in his householder life they would realize god in this very life time according to him . But to a layman it is 1/16th of what? Thakurji always looked upon his consort as the divine blissful mother. 3) I guess the dilemma for a householder is " sex for pleasure " vs. " sex for procreation " What does the Thakurji/Swamiji/Mother/ scriptures have to say as guidance in this aspect? As a householder, what is one's duty in this regard towards one's wife? Thakurji mentions somewhere that he put this question of physical realtions to the mother saying that it is his duty as a householder (and also the fact that it is impossible for him to look at any woman that way) and the mother rejected it. He mentions that he was relieved/reassured immensely on the mother's reply. I suppose Thakurji wanted to demonstrate to the world that one can realize God being a householder. Almost every other spiritual giant in history never married/or fulfilled his duties as a householder and renounced it. So, how does a lay householder person steeped in world affairs approach this issue and at the same time make progress spiritually? Thakurji himself says on many occasions that this is not possible - Presumably to force his householder disciples to intensify their spiritual practices. Or is it not possible to be a householder and yet seek the Lord? with love, Sreedhar > Message: 3 > Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:12:57 -0500 > " Brad Stephan " <brad > Re: List #875 > > Dear Anup Lahiry: > > Regarding your question of whether celebacy for a householder is required to > practice Raja Yoga, I would recommend the book, " Meditation and Spiritual > Life " by Swami Yatiswarananda, available from the Ramakrishna Math in > Bangalore or from www.vedanta.org. Swami's chapter entitled, " The Problem of > Sex in Spiritual Life " should answer most of your questions. > > This is an important question, and it would be good to see some more input > from the List. Personally, I believe celebacy to be essetial, but one must > be ready for it (unfortunately, I am not). All of the great ones, e.g., > Christ, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda, etc., etc., were celebate and > chose to sublimate their sexual energy into spiritual energy. > > God Bless! > Bradley Dean Stephan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2001 Report Share Posted August 20, 2001 To continue with Sreedhar's thoughts on celibacy: Many teachers have tended to take a positive approach toward this subject, including Sri Ramakrishna. You know the parables: 1.The more you move west, the further you are from the east. 2. God is the big magnet, woman (lust) is the small magnet, etc. The more God becomes the center of your life, the further your mind will be from the world. Through meditation the mind and passions are quieted and your energy is directed towards your Ideal instead of outwards. The desire for sensual pleasure is reduced. More and more peace seeps into your mind and body.... This is a natural development when you meditate for a long time, without break, and in all earnestness (to quote Patanjali). Sex isn't THE biggest obstacle- the outward tendency of the mind is the problem. Even if your THINKING lustful thoughts, your mind is restless and agitated and not fit for concentration or meditation. Therefore, these desires must be quieted for the mind to calm down. I think there's a tendency for householders (myself included) to delude themselves that they can " have their cake and eat it too " in regards to sex and spiritual life. But I think the best approach is to seriously practice and let these tendencies fall away on their own. It's not healthy to force yourself to be celibate when you are not ready. When the fruit is ripe, it falls from the tree on it's own accord. When your devotion to the spiritual life becomes firm, these issues will disappear (unless of course your wife is unhappy- she might want you to forget God and NOT look on her as the " Blissful Mother " !) Ravi --- Sreedhar T Bharath <sbharath wrote: > I have some follow up questions on celibacy and > spiritual life following Anup and Brad. > > 1) Swami Vivekananda in Raja Yoga says that celibacy > is a pre requisite to advance > spiritually. He does not give an " operational > definition " or does he anywhere else? - is > abstinence form sex the only requirement? > Are there others? What about one's thoughts and > words? > > 2) Thakurji mentions in one of his utternaces that > his life is a guide for householders to realize god. > Even if the average person followed 1/16th of what > he did in his householder life they would realize > god in this very life time > according to him . But to a layman it is 1/16th of > what? Thakurji always looked upon his consort as the > divine blissful mother. > > 3) I guess the dilemma for a householder is " sex for > pleasure " vs. " sex for procreation " > What does the Thakurji/Swamiji/Mother/ scriptures > have to say as guidance in this aspect? As a > householder, what is one's duty in > this regard towards one's wife? Thakurji mentions > somewhere that he put this question of physical > realtions to the mother saying that it is his duty > as a householder (and also the > fact that it is impossible for him to look at any > woman that way) and the mother rejected it. He > mentions that he was > relieved/reassured immensely on the mother's reply. > I suppose Thakurji wanted to demonstrate to the > world that one can realize God being a householder. > Almost every other spiritual giant in history never > married/or fulfilled his duties as a householder and > renounced it. > > So, how does a lay householder person steeped in > world affairs approach this issue and at the same > time > make progress spiritually? Thakurji himself says on > many occasions that this is not possible - > Presumably > to force his householder disciples to intensify > their spiritual practices. Or is it not possible to > be a householder and yet seek > the Lord? > > > with love, > Sreedhar > Message: 3 > > Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:12:57 -0500 > > " Brad Stephan " <brad > > Re: List #875 > > > > Dear Anup Lahiry: > > > > Regarding your question of whether celebacy for a > householder is required to > > practice Raja Yoga, I would recommend the book, > " Meditation and Spiritual > > Life " by Swami Yatiswarananda, available from the > Ramakrishna Math in > > Bangalore or from www.vedanta.org. Swami's chapter > entitled, " The Problem of > > Sex in Spiritual Life " should answer most of your > questions. > > > > This is an important question, and it would be > good to see some more input > > from the List. Personally, I believe celebacy to > be essetial, but one must > > be ready for it (unfortunately, I am not). All of > the great ones, e.g., > > Christ, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda, etc., > etc., were celebate and > > chose to sublimate their sexual energy into > spiritual energy. > > > > God Bless! > > Bradley Dean Stephan > > > > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2001 Report Share Posted August 20, 2001 Dear Bradley; Thank you for your reply. My quest for spirituality is at best on the curious side and In feel would it not be great if could really plunge in to it, but can't oris not ready to pay the price. Still looking for a bargain knowing well it does not exist . Spirituality On SALE !!! does not exist. I am addicted to the life pleasures. It is very much like being a drug addict , an alcoholic, or a smoker who knows how much better off he will be if he could only quit his acddiction , in my case the Maya Of Life, but has hard time doing it. Let me know you E mail if you don't mind. Mine is "alahiry @aol.com". I have ordered the book you suggested. Thanks again Anup Lahiry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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